Mad Dog and James Blake get HEATED debating if Serena Williams is the GOAT | First Take 

The irony of what James Blake is saying about the depth of women’s tennis today is that, when someone inevitably breaks Serena’s slam record in the future, everyone will claim that this player dominated in a “weak era”. We can all move the goalposts to support our argument.

That's actually crazy this woman won 22 slams in 10 years lol that's madness

Heated? This was the most relaxed MadDog segment since he's been on FT.

Heated? They were chill asf. Lol

I think Serena is the best female player off all time. But, I don't mind Mad Dog's take. Good to have opposing arguments. Too many people are too sensitive if someone says something that isn't praising Serena

Serena top 5 of all time for sure. STEFFI GRAF: 1) won 36 more professional titles in 9 less years on the tour 2) had a higher lifetime winning percentage by FOUR PERCENT. 3) had more weeks at number one, playing in less years 4) won an Olympic singles Gold 5) won Calendar year grand slam Graf had FIFTY five more weeks at number 1 and finished the year number 1 EIGHT times to Serena’s 5.

Depth is relative in women’s tennis rn, recent champions and high seeds are getting knocked out in the first/2nd rounds by unranked players. It’s literally unpredictable who will reach the finals..

Why are they comparing Tiger to Serena or Jordan for that matter? ESPN does the dumbest debates of all time

Also Serena won 11 of her slams in 10 years before the age of 28, and 12 after turning 28, when most players would have retired.

Graff- 22 grand slams by 30years of age is incredibly impressive. Wait until her and Andre’s kids are of age to hit the pro tour!

"Two Serena Slams" is no strong argument against Steffi. She won another non calender GS 1993/94.

Mad Dogg like him or not he never forgets about the history In sports

when did mad dog and james blake get heated? title is clickbait

Graf is the only player, male or female, to win a Golden Slam in a calender year, winning all 4 Grand Slams and the Olympic Gold in 1988. Steffi was extremely special!

He's an American ESPN analyst. Ask European analysts they will fight for Steffi and Navratilova

Graff won 107 titles, 22 grand slams before she was 28, met navratilova, Ever, Seles, Vicario, Sabatini, hingis, difficult era... Serena won 73 titles, 23 grand slams, facing a weak era since 2010..

Me as not a tennis fan I though Serena being the goat was a for gone conclusion , but Mad Dog makes decent arguments . That's why is good to hear from older people who seem all era's. And also aren't so caught up in media hype

Did blake asked how steffi did against seles? graf was 10-5 career and 6-4 before the stabbing incident , at no time was seles ever leading in their h2h or dominant. when steffi lost the #1 ranking she had a lot of issues going on her personal life her dad, under investigation for tax evasion etc. those issues affected the mental part of her game. 22 slams in 10 year, took serena almost double the time and tries to reach that goal. both ladies played in different eras and both deserve to be mention in the GOAT debate.

I just love the fact they're talking about tennis period. Variation in content MATTERS

Agree with Mad dog Graf is the best ever

These GOAT debates are just tired. The greats are just that...GREAT. Steffi, Monica, Bjorn, John, Roger, Pete, Rafa, Serena, Martina, Venus, Novak. Boris and more... All great, all are/were thrilling to watch. Just love the game for what it is.

So cringe how many of these guys bring up tiger woods as if he's surpassed Jack Nicklaus lol. He's not in the discussion if he's not the greatest of his own sport.

This wasn't heated at all. 2 men engaging in a calm respectful debate. Yall really over selling hard on the HEATED part

Mad dog got a point on this topic, it’s debatable it’s not like Jordan in the nba

Tiger Woods doesn't belong on any greatest athlete lists. It's golf. It's a game and hardly a sport with bare minimum athleticism required.

Mad dog got a point

Our generation needs to be more appreciative of all the truly great athletes we've had in the past 30 years. Tennis has given us Sampras, Serena, Venus, Steffi ,Agassi,Nadal , Federer and The 🃏.. Some of the all time greats in 30 year's.

Chris Evert is probably the most underrated player in these discussions. She won 90% of matches that she played from day 1 at the start of the 70s until retirement in 1989, and reached the semi-finals of more than 80% of the tournaments that she entered. She also won most of the tournaments that she entered, with more title wins than match defeats. She won 18 grand slams, but it’s worth remembering that the grand slam count wasn’t seen as the be all and end all then, far from it (it only increased in importance in the 90s when Sampras closed in on Emerson’s record on the men’s side). Also she, more than Navratilova, was impacted by the reduced importance of both the Australian and French Opens for a while. Had all 4 grand slams been equally important, and slam counting been a big deal when she played, she clearly won have won more grand slam titles than Navratilova, and would have at least come very close to Court’s record herself.

I always enjoyed watching Steffi's matches because there was never any drama from her on the court. She let her racket do the talking and rarely said a word. I will always admire her professionalism much like the way Venus always conducts herself on court as well.

This was actually one of the better takes iv heard on hear. For me it seems everyone from 18 year olds to 80 year old knows who Serena Williams is, that's the impact she has had. The same as everyone alive knows MJ even if they never watched basketball in thier lives. That is my reasoning as to why Serena is the GOAT of ladies tennis

The argument that Blake uses - that radecanu can come out of no where and win the us open , doesn’t help. It just proves that this whole generation of tennis is wildly inconsistent. Emma, Halep, leylah, Osaka are all already out before the third round. The competition isn’t better, it’s barely watchable. Contrast to men, if fed didn’t win, you know nadal or djoker will. Those 3 battled each other. For the most part, Serena battled a bunch of one hit wonders.

I love how people just rewrite history. Steffi was 6-4 against Monica before the stabbing and finished with a 10-5 H2H against her, yet all I keep reading the last week is how Steffi was dominated by Monica. Really? So having a winning H2H against somebody is being dominated by that person? Well that makes sense doesn't it lol Come on people, I understand everybody hasn't been watching tennis for over 30 years like myself, but at least do your research before you just go and rewrite history to make your argument sound better

i think even Steffi, Chrissy, and Martina would admit Serena is the GOAT.

" I'm not sure she has the most accomplished career " - Evert on Serena Williams Most diplomatic..

"How did Steffi against Monica Seles?" Answer: 10:5 (6:4 before and 4:1 after the stabbing).

What about consistency, Graf stayed at the top year in and year out. Literally top 1,2;3 where as Serena would dip down into the 100’s and disappear for stretches of time. Be off tour for injuries and other personal problems. Graf delt with just as many injuries but her work ethic and commitment allowed her to return quickly and win right out the gate. Serena would come back over weight and would be out of sorts for a period of time before she got back into form. Serena had numerous more early round exits than Graf. It has been painful to watch Serena the last 2-3 seasons. The adoration and praise she got for just winning a 1sr round match was mind boggling. Those are the expectations of the GOAT?. Graf’s final season on tour , wins the French, finals at Wimbledon. Consistent greatness year in and year out is so incredulity difficult. Yet she did it. The Serena Slam, Graf had two seasons of those plus the actual Grand Slam. Mind you Serena had her shot to win the calendar Slam. What happened , she totally crumbled under the weight of the pressure and expectation. That semifinal vs Vinci was so pathetically bad. All the antics , the whimpering , the yelling , constantly looking up to her box throwing her hands up like it was there fault or something. She was so tight she was pushing the ball, her ye unique completely abandoned her. Of course instead of answering for her performance she left the court and skipped her press conference. That is cowardly. They want to talk about all these Unlike Graf who got it done. She beat Evert in one final, Navratilova at Wimbledon and 7time defending champion, Sabatini who handed her her only 2 defeats that season in the Open final. Talk about mental toughness . No excuses , no drama , she just took it all head on and produced her best with the highest of stakes at hand. Serena is amazing and may be the GOAT to many, and all the arguments make sense. But for Blake to say Seles is so ridiculous and dismissive of Graf and the type of champion she was. Numerically she bests Serena by far in some categories and beats her in most. The Serena has is the 23 majors , 1 one more than Graf. Which Graf if she continued to play had a high probability of achieving 1-2 more. Mind you she retired weeks after winning the French and finals at Wimbledon.

She is GOAT of women's tennis, no doubt. Serena won 15 grand slams without dropping a set...

Graf had no competition. Her one competition got stabbed with a knife by one of her crazy fans. And Seles had 9 slams by the age of 19 and has been looked at as the greatest had she not been stabbed. Steffi didn’t face any competition and the game was no where near as hard when she was playing.

When was it “heated”?

Smh Stephen A always interrupting somebody. Can't keep his mouth shut for more than 2 minutes

This debate will go on for centuries

These takes from Mad Dog are the ones you can really appreciate. The man’s sports history knowledge is incredible.

Evert and Navratilova were at the end of their careers and Seles got stabbed at NINETEEN when she had 8 Slams and Steffi had 11 at age 24. Graf would’ve had less than 22 for CERTAIN.

Just different tastes. Sometimes is not only about statistics but about the style of play, the dominance in a certain period of time. Pointless to argue, they can have a conversation, listen to each other and respect their different points of view.

I still don't understand why Margaret Court isn't mentioned as if 24 doesn't matter and there's a reason she's chasing 24 cuz if she already had the record I guarantee you she wouldn't have come back

But we won’t acknowledge the scrutiny with another athlete in a goat debate. I agree Serena is the goat, Monica we can say if she didn’t this or that and she was bad but Serena has done with the evaluation of the sport.

Stephen A looking around like why are we talking about tennis😂

The only reason you praise Serena so highly because you want a GOAT for this generation. Young people don’t know Graf and Martina.

We’ve been talking about the Williams sisters since they arrived on the scene in the late 90s, more often than not in unflattering ways. They have not only excelled amidst all that but went on to change the sport, “turning center court into center stage.”

One of the best *WOMAN* Athletes, there’s a difference. Roger federer would beat her with one hand

"Bob Cousy > Serena Williams" -Mad Dog

James Blake 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

The Maria Sharapova crowd now wants to devalue everything Serena has done... The depth of field and the physical nature of the game is different!!! Everyone they mentioned is great but, the ESPN Generation can't just say that and walk away!

Steffi Graf is the greatest woman tennis player of all time

I feel like Mad Dog may have an unconscious bias

aint no comparing they all are legends in there on way but than again each of dem have there own decade & eras ....

I’m legitimately convinced that Russo doesn’t like any player currently under the age of 65

Dumb argument. Serena Williams is the greatest and it's not close. Graf wouldn't dominate this game like she did back when tennis was still basically SEGREGATED. Is there no end to the cap?

MARG gave birth to her first child in the OPEN ERA,1972, but returned to tennis later in the year and won three Grand Slam singles titles in 1973, the OPEN ERA.

I always respected Mike and the maddog they always speak how they feel. They were never scripted like sports media is today.

There is LESS depth now thanthere was in the 70s - 90s. Serena's competition did nothing even when Serena was absent. She lucked into the easiest schedule ever.

Read between the lines: How could you even say 22 is greater than 23 ... only in USA.

Thank u for talking about something other than basketball and football

Somebody hire me to predict what athletes are thinking please

James you had me until you said she can be compared to Tiger woods. I agree that Serena is the women's tennis GOAT in that she had the wins and helped transcend the sport, open new doors for new players in the way Tiger did, but Tigers transcendence was more transformational to the sport than Serena.

I don't usually get him or like his take but I actually get Mad dog's points! I felt like back in that Seles, Martina, Steffi era there were a lot of top women compared to now in comparison to who Serena played.

Both sides made great points!

Blake is out of his mind

Mad Dog is entirely incorrect. Steffi Graf cannot be the greatest of all time because she has won 1 slam less than Serena. That draws the ultimate line. Why is that one slam important? 1. Serena won her 23rd and record breaking slam while 2 months pregnant. 2. She did so WITHOUT losing a set in the entire tournament. Also, people might say that Steffi competed almost half as much as Serena did, but there can’t be a valid comparison between the two athletes because Serena was out of competition for years when she almost died because of a blood clot problem after getting injured. The biggest decider, when looking at the stats, on who the GOAT is comes down to one woman: Monica Seles. Monica Seles’ stabbing highlighted the superficiality of the WTA at that time, due to Seles dominating Steffi at 18 in slam finals and semi-finals, with a h2h of 2-1. She was the reigning world number 1 at the time and at a tournament in Hamburg, she was stabbed by a Steffi Graf fan, who couldn’t live down the fact that Monica was matching Steffi’s game at such a young age (18). After Seles’ stabbing, the attacker reached his goal and Steffi reclaimed the number 1 spot, dominating the game again. There’s this current argument that Serena didn’t face an all time great in her life, but the all time greats that Steffi faced were either too old, not in their prime, or both. Take Martina, for instance. Martina won all of their first 3 encounters, but lost 6 in a row as she reached the end of her career. Chris Evert was never in top form when she played Steffi, as well. Also, the concept of all time greats is an outdated concept in itself because those players stand as a mascot of WTA because of the way that they transcended women’s tennis back in the day. When you look at Martina’s game in that era, her main strategy was serve and volley and other parts of her game were just too superficial. As Monica Seles said, “the new generation is faster, stronger, more mobile.” You cannot compare Steffi’s grand slam titles with Serena’s because Serena dealt with harder opponents and dominated through them, therefore they couldn’t win slams and she could. Has everyone forgotten how Serena wiped out Henin, Capriati, Hingis, Venus, Davenport, and more off the court in the 2000s. Then, she had to deal with the even newer generation and cleared them off the court as well. As a cherry on top, Steffi doesn’t have a doubles career to add into her resumé, but Serena does. Serena is unbeaten in grand slam doubles finals with her sister and has won 14 slams, while Steffi has won only 1. Also, Steffi has 1 gold medal to Serena’s 4. When the stats and the bigger picture meet together, Serena Williams is the undisputed GREATEST OF ALL TIME.

I like how they make it sound like Steffi only played 10 yrs because she only won in that period! More like 1982-1999‼️‼️‼️

Wouldn’t even know tennis was a mainstream sport if it wasn’t for Serena lol she literally one of the only one most people who don’t follow the sports know

These dudes look like spoofs of themselves in the thumbnail 😭😂

Finally a tennis video!! 😃

He is right about SG

How dare u compare Serena to Tiger woods, MJ, Mohammed Ali, Lebron...........???????

James’ point is totally not valid. It’s not like Roger Federer and Rafael nadal are also tennis players, and it’s not because they’re men. They are just better.

The female tennis GOAT is so hard and competitive. You have King, Navratilova, Graf, Serena, and seles before the stabbing. And Sabatini before the drugs. I never agree with Mad Dog but the womens tennis GOAT is contested no matter who you go with.

You cant compare the game now to the game that 20 -30 years ago.Its like the NBA,the players are much much more talented than 20 years ago.Stephe was a monster in her era but there's many monsters in Serena era.

If Mad Dog is in the thumbnail, it's a guaranteed click. Good debate.

What was heated about this debate?

They tryna get everybody ta debate mad dog on this conversation, he knows his tennis.

Serena is not the GOAT of tennis, Feder, Nadal and Djokovic all play each other the level of competition is so high, Serena hasn't had that many great challengers and they have 22, 21 and 20 grand slams respectively. Hard to see one of them not passing her on 23. As for women's tennis, sure. I honestly don't know I wasn't around with Navratalova, would have been fun to see her against Steffi, but I'd pick Serena over Steffi. But to say she is the GOAT of tennis is too much

Mad Dog is making good arguments. It is not clear cut that she is the best of all time. Steffi Graff is solidly within that argument. If someone says that she is the greatest of all time, I definitely will not dismiss that assertion.

People don't discuss the huge impact that the modern rackets have had on the game. That is why it is unfair to compare the 70s 80s eras to today's tennis.

Most of yall thats saying serena is the goat is the type to watch golf only when tiger is playing and say he is the goat. I take stock into fans and analysts that has seen more than one player play

Wow he's salty on serena but it's ok because he's wrong

The dude in the middle just about himself he said it shows you how great the talent is in women's tennis right now when a player from the outside 100 could come in and possibly win the US Open no that means the competition shittier than it used to be that would have never happened back in the 80s or early 90s

Serena Williams is not better than Steffi Graf, man. Comon people.

THANK YOU, for saying that, Serena did it all while having a target on her back, black athletes have it twice hard being heckled while playing and people threatening to harm you.

If serena is in the same breath as Mj and Ali etc then u gonna have to put rafa Roger and novak in there as well

James was really looking at Mad Dog like is this man serious right now lmao

i hate the best athelete of all time debate because all sports are different, different competition, different skills, era's all of it. you cant compare serna and tiger woods to someone like ali, mayweather and sugar ray robinson for example, or compare those guys to gretzky or jordan,its just stupid because of how different the respective sports are.

Steffi Graf won 21 slams in 10 years 1987-96 that's insane. She had most weeks at no 1 (377), most year end no 1 (8), quadruple slam, only player in history to successfully defend all 4 Slam, best winning percentage in slam. She is undisputed GOAT then it's Martina then Serena. Of course it's hard for USA media to accept Steffi as the GOAT. Her dominance in tennis from (1987-96) was bigger than MJ & LeBron & Woods & on a par with Gretzky, Ruth, Phelps & Bolt.

Mad Dogg making Skip Bayless look intelligent. gross

That's the thing about the competition Serena has faced late in her career: she CREATED it. She inspired it. She's beaten girls that grew up watching her at a rate that no champion has before. And that competition she inspired goes *beyond* the women's side: Kyrgios and Tiafoe for example. That's why, for me, removing the qualifier of "female" is important, because of her cross-gender impact. So focusing on her not having had to have played Evert, Martina or Seles is far too narrow a viewpoint to take on this.

Mmm is argument to make there actually, people don't remember Steffi is been long time but is closer that people think if you go number by number...

We're not even allowed to have a conversation about who is actually the GOAT in women's tennis? Graf beats her in every category except GS titles, but Graf had to retire early due to injuries. She was still 3rd ranked player in the world even with injuries; she was that good. Healthy, Graf wins 25 GS titles by age 35 easily.

No tennis player will argue against Serena’s GOAT status! She revolutionized the sport! It’s not even the same skill, speed, and power!

Good debate...

This man said, she's up there with Tiger Woods?🤦‍♂️