Is Serena the female tennis GOAT?! JWill & Mad Dog DEBATE 🔥 | First Take 

Amen to that.

Oh grow a pair

Lol

That actually was a good debate

It was refreshing

Mad Dog is the voice of white supremacy basically allowed to be open with it. Typical ESPN

Jay williams ain't no anything about tennis. Mad dog has great knowledge of sports. Martina is the goat c'mon 59 to 39 titles of Serena

@@supreme2818 More Grand Slams the only title that matters. And was far more dominant

The guy said cooper kupp is a HOF if he retired right now and was shaming micheal Thomas. Dude is an idiot and clearly racially motivated. He shits on Lamar, Kyler, Serena and MT. Yet he loves kupp, graf and Martina. Lol

Totally agree. Mad Dog is a walking encyclopedia and knows his stuff. Steffie Graff was no joke in her era and well as Martina but I would have love to see Serena go against them. I think she would have a chance to take some wins. They are all great but we will never know who is the goat IMHO

He got him with that one lol

And that's why debating athletes from different eras is really stupid. Most sports are played very differently nowadays due to the rule changes, equipment etc. There's too many variables, with no common point of reference and it ultimately becomes a case of comparing apples and oranges. Just appreciate the athletes who are playing today and stop comparing them to dudes who played some 20,30,40 years back.

cuz they dont care

Ryan Clark put him on notice

So turning around in a circle is showing respect.

Graf won more and was more dominant and played for less time. She also had a year with all four majors+gold medal. She has everything on Serena but the one grand slam. If u want to say that’s the difference then Margaret court is the goat

- Steffi won the Golden Calendar Slam (only player in history) - Steffi has 377 weeks at #1 (all time record) - Steffi has 8 YE #1 (all time record) - Steffi won all of the Slams at least 4 times (only player in history) - Steffi won at least 6 Slams on all surfaces (only player in history) - Steffi won way more titles than Serena - Steffi has a higher winning % than Serena - Steffi was both more dominant and more consistent than Serena - Steffi had a higher peak than Serena - Steffi had better competition than Serena - Steffi accomplished more than Serena despite playing for 11 less years It’s no contest, Graf is the GOAT.

Casual black American

graf was more dominate

Agreed

Dismissed everything he said after that

Also Serena is the highest earner & Venus is the second highest earner in the history of women's tennis. Venus' bank account is definitely top 2 of all time

what a shot argument, if Nadal doesn’t exist Federer would have 10 more grand slams 😂😂😂😂

"If" is a very big word...

@@stinoooee.j5899 no it's not a shot argument because maddog is arguing the level of competition so what you're saying actually makes 0 sense

J. Will is generally a respectful debater

Yeah these new guys think they know everything are better than the “old media “

@@sukhrajsinghnahal I mean they do. sports and humans evolve to say somebody in the 60's is better in sorts then somebody modern day is crazy. But let's use your debate say a regular doctor who has to study everything about the human body would they know more about the brain then a brain surgeon

@@shawnsmith9307 the debate isn't really about who's "better," it's about who's "greater." Max brings this up a lot, but for example plenty of sprinters can run faster than Jesse Owens now, they're "better," but they're most certainly not "greater."

@@back2back379 yeah he is greater because the impact he he had especially around that time and he also set a precedent so yeah I get that. Russo just doesn't argue that, he literally think they are better

Dude a clown 🤡 don't know sports at all

No because they have not retired. Women Tennis right now is not consistent. So no debate needed. Maybe Ash Barty because she retired.

I don't think so, his argument was that Serena wouldn't have won as much if she was playing with them but doesn't bring up that they for sure wouldn't have won that many if they had to go up against either of the Williams sister defiantly serena

Mad Dog is right Late 80-90 were all the greats just has the 201o' has the all time greats in men

No underating these women of today. Inconsistent with zero fight in them.

Lol

u go to mad dog for tennis knowledge?

@@princecheck11 white dudes know more about tennis let’s get real

@@maljones1398 that dont change anything i saidd

@@princecheck11 who you think has more tennis knowledge between the 2?

that's why he brought up the Jordan thing, to try to bring the conversation to something he knows more about.

Exactly that why Jay just went to the race card..

Jay is a clown that needs to stick to basketball.

@@soda8736 what are you talking about

@@nedeamhadjixiros jay was making it about race , but main difference is the number of lawsuits. 1 vs 24

Cause she knows

You just wanna be mad about anything

J will the one being a cornball here, not Molly. She be getting too much hate

it's stupid comparing female athletes to male athletes. especially in something power and speed based like tennis. stop reaching.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

😂😂 now that is funny Black historians advance

@@moalston4203 Sorry it was a white alien who build the pyramids

@@jasonlewis460 nope not all

@@moalston4203 Trust bro, there is more evidence that its true

Great comment, nice to see she had such a great influence on your life. And for that I think she not only best female, but best all time. First tennis player that comes to mind is her, and will always be her

Same!!!

Greatest you seen to the greatest of all timel Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic and Pete Sampras..etc

I've become a Serena AND Venus fan. What they have done is something that can't be quantified. She's inspired others to follow her footsteps. When she is on TV I look to watch her and Venus. When I think of tennis, I think of Serena and then Venus

@@jonathanwatson1908 Serena i thought he had already retired

It a sports programming network what else is new

@@moalston4203 It's the LeBron show

I feel you, wish they would more. But it’s typically when Tiger (golf) or Serena (Tennis) is in the news that they discuss it. Or if there is a controversy (i.e the liv situation)

@@grando2750 politics is parts of sports 🐑

Yup!! Did you see Kyrigos take out Medvedev.. He made that Wimbledon final statement. The only thing upsetting was Alcaraz losing in the first round. Fake # 2 seed.

Genuine question, what did Serena do for the culture of tennis? If we are talking about her race, Arthur Ashe and Althea Gibson were far more impactful. If we are talking about the power game, Chris everet, Graf, and seles were the trailblazers.

@@dustierbottoms just because Ashe et al did great things prior doesn't diminish her impact now. She opened doors for women making real money in sport and is a beacon of excellence for her race and others.

​​@@dustierbottoms no Naomi Osaka, No Stevens, no Coco Gauff and other like them without Serena and Venus. Serena offered viability to the sport for a current pool of girls who wouldn't have tried it otherwise. Cannot underestimate that part. She's in the bracket of Gibson on the women's side in that respect.

@@droid1appmkr Serena has said her biggest inspiration growing up was Monica seles. She wanted to hit like Monica. While it’s great to be have a role model of the same race, I highly doubt there would be no black tennis players ever had the Williams never existed. That seems like a stretch. Who was tiger woods role model? As far as being a beacon of excellence, I actually think as great as she was, she underachieved. And she had so many problems with poor sportsmanship throughout her career.

The first 8 players you named were only relevant in the late 90s and mid 2000s. Her competition was garbage in her prime yeads

When Venus,Henin and Klijsters were at their best Serena wasn't winning as often

@@leepatrick9432 I agree, I personally think that the Williams father destroyed Venus career, she was an excellent player, and I saw her not playing her best on purpose when facing Serena at some point.

On that list, Steffi Graf had to play against 5 of them, she has a winning record against them and beat them all in grand slams. I am talking about Hingis, Davenport, Venus, Kim Clijters and Capriati

Seriously havent you watched tennis after Henin retired, after 2009??

@@VictorVonDoom. The women's game hasn't been poor. It has been characterized by parity. The overall athleticism and skill on tour is far beyond what existed prior to the sisters. Dominating is exceedingly difficult.

@@aardvarmario Agree, and that's owing largely to the onslaught of the "power" game in tennis, particularly among the women's game.

@@hiwayman981 I believe Mary Carrillo called it Big Babe tennis. I will always remember the 2005 Wimbledon semi-final between Venus and Sharapova. The incredible ball striking in that match really made me aware the sport had become something completely different.

and that is the most venerable and valid argument that completely obliterates mad dog’s attempt to devalue serena. even the player that he picked, martina navratilova concedes that serena is the best tennis player all time in her own comments and she was a skeptic early of serena.

Exactly. Monica Seles was spanking Graff before the stabbing, and she is not on Serena's level. Serena would have blown threw them. She would have given them the Sharapova treatment (approximately).

I just hate how he does the corny walk off thing once mad dogg initially answered the question. Like bruh only Stephen a can do that the right way😂

Agree with both Williams sister's trailblazing off-court, but especially Serena given her magnanimous career. Lest we forget however another GOAT-contender, Billie Jean King's contributions in that area as well; her application of Title IX into (womens') sports, the formation of the WTA, and WTT, just to name a few. And what Navratilova did during her early career, defecting from an eastern-bloc country at a time in which doing so may well have gotten her assassinated by her own government, cannot be overlooked or slighted in light of the more recent accomplishments of the aforementioned American siblings. As well, Martina became a pioneer for modern women's tennis ala Ivan Lendl; her diet, workout/cross-training regimen, and preternatural skill with the tennis racquet asked questions of her opponents in the 1980's that hadn't been posed before in the sport. Some of her achievements, stats, and titles remain peerless to this day; as such, she's definitely my GOAT pick, as much as she is Mad Dog's, seemingly anyway.

@Joseph fair enough. All one can indulge in is relative comparisons between athletes and eras, and I'd say the impact Serena, specifically had, was comparable to say Bird, Magic, Bonds or Jordan. Had a lot to do with reviving audience interest in the sport. Again, fair point.

Jordan and Tiger are debatable! There was Russell, KAJ, Chamberlain, Magic and the Golden Bear who is arguably the greatest golfer ever! What isn't debatable in G.O.A.T. status is Tom Brady! Full stop!

@Heg Dog Brady is the greatest & most accomplished N.F.L. player all time! So if you're starting a team you're going to select a LB over the most important position on the field?😂🤔 Come on man!

Greatest of all time is talking about your play, how you faired against your contemporary. It doesn't matter what your off-court influence is

He did make valid points

And he said it like 50 times you can debate if Serena can be number one meaning it's either or

Ever heard of djokovic nadal or Federer? You can’t say “tennis goat” and not include those three

He made the argument most people use to not rank Floyd Mayweather as the best of all time. Mayweather didn't beat the best of his era until they were out of their primes. I don't know. These Best of all-time debates are all boring. We can never know the right answers. The sports change, technology changes, and the physical ability of athletes change.

@@semi6544 you're 99.9 percent right the 0.01 is Michael Jordan

What kind of HOFs LET 1 player win 3 of 4 slams in a yr on 4 different occasions + a grand slam in 1988. So y didn't she stick around another yr or 2 and surpass the 24 slam mark?

Great point...... Like Emmitt Smith all time rushing leader, how long did it take

Stefi is the GOAT*. That * is Monica Seles.... se their head to head before she was stabbed. She not wining 22 with a healthy, younger Seles, Period.

Court won 21 grand slams by age 28, 24 by 31. It must be said that the debaters' comment are disingenuous and have no credibility whatsover to not even mention Margaret Court who won 11 of her 24 grand slams in the 'open' era (from 1968), proving that she was superior over 'professionals' as well in her efforts. She also won 9 of her 19 doubles slams in the open era. Furthermore, she won 3 grand slam singles after her first child whereas Williams won one which has some significance in terms of mental acumen. Very significantly, Williams had 10 more pro years than Court, or perhaps likely reduce that to 7 or 8 years being that Williams turned pro at 14 (Court 17 or 18) and one generally wouldn't expect a person to win a slam before they were about 16 or 17 going by the example of Hingis who won at 16. Court is clearly the greatest player of all time due to the weight of the all conquering grand slams yet Williams would have been the equal greatest and the greatest of all time if respectively she had equaled and out-'slammed' Court. There's zero difference that Court won 13 of her 24 slams in the pre-open era because the 'professionals' sought 'pro' money of their own volition and by their own decision declined playing the slams so it's on them. It doesn't mean they were better than Court, but that they just wanted to earn more money.

As a young black girl watching Serena, Venus, Martina H, and Graff-Graff was the more experienced player and more agile of all of them. The Williams sisters' possessed power I've never seen from women players before. But there was always SOMETHING about Martina H that left me intrigued with the talent she brought to the game. She's always been in my favorite personal top 10 players.

Margaret court played before civil rights 😂😂😂😂😂

She definitely wouldn’t have 24 if they allowed all of the players to travel over seas when she played

Also injuries. Henin Hardienne, Hingis suffered injuries. Clisters quit that's true

It's FUNNY how people of RUSSO'S ILK when it comes to people of Color they always have to move the goalpost to justify People of Color aren't greater than they're great white hope. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT when it comes to BASEBALL you don't hear One Anglo Saxon Talking Head like RUSSO admit or say well BABE RUTH ONLY PLAYED AGAINST WHITE PLUMBERS, MECHANICS, POSTMEN, BUS DRIVERS ETC. BABE RUTH did not play against the BEST BASEBALL PLAYERS of his ERA because the BEST PLAYERS were banned due to america's RACIST HISTORY and those players were BLACK! So miss me with the she didn't play against greater competition than Martina or Graf...

Look at men’s tennis where you have essentially three all-timers who, despite their competition, were each able to amass 20 Grand Slams. In women’s tennis, no one comes close to Serena, yet in the 80s, there were players who were at least close to Martina and yet she still amassed so many Grand Slams.

its not her fault but that's irrelevant

@@eric7441 OR one can surmise that Serena was just THAT dominant .

Graf won 22/54 bruh that's the highest win conversion rate ever in women's tennis. The next best is 11-1 by some dude from the black and white era. Not to mention she retired at 30. She's like jordan

Martina won 20 more singles and doubles..It couldn't be more obvious she's the greatest of all time.

@@colinforsecs3393 doubles doesn't count in the goat argument brother . Your partner is doing half the work it's an entirely different discussion . You can argue she's the doubles goat but graf is the singles goat.

@@Fraudkovic She's overall goat dude..

@@Fraudkovic She was 5-4 vs Graf, their very last match Martina was much older and still beat her. Graf was awesome, but history is history

Just like is Jackie Robinson the greatest of all time possibly no one had it harder than he..... But he wasn't he was great not the greatest black females Zina garrison, althea Gibson so she didn't pave anything you can't use her color or race

It's a debate to those who actually pay attention to tennis and have watched it across many era's. You can talk about Serena having 23 grand slam titles. Graf has 22, in 17 years. In 1988 she won all 4 grand slam titles. She then won the Australian open in 89 to make it 5 straight. She lost the French open but then won Wimbledon and the US Open to finish the year and the Australian open in 1990. Graff won 5 straight majors and 8 of 9. That is absurd. Don't tell me there isn't a debate.

@@silverguard8105 GOAT status belongs to the most dominant AND greatest ambassador. Serena is the face of women’s tennis….and it’s not even close 😂. Even people who never watched a match associate her name with tennis greatness…. you can’t say the same about Graf and others….

@@TheSk8erGamer That's from an US-perspective. In the rest of the world Steffi is regarded as GOAT.

All of the other women would have adapted and become way better players. Martina Hingis would of WON 23 Grandslams if Cocaine was legal.

I agree. He actually makes the debate lot more interesting, and First Take watchable now.

Silly Argument That a Pep talk when you use that word to Describe What discussion hes improvise and when he bring up basketball player In the Past and earn to be heard Is part of being Historian Bro regardless what he does.

But it is easy to say that it shouldn't be Serena if you look at my arguments above. She has by far the weakest case.

Margaret Court will never really be in calculations. Her opponents were English speakers of which many couldn’t be bothered travelling ti Australia.

@@Will-nb8qk Though it's on them that some didn't travel to Aus, one plays according to who is there, it doesn't lower the 'weight' of the match. If good players are injured or don't turn up it doesn't take away from the winner.

@@GodsView1 : In generational comparisons it does, which I thought would be needless to mention to an adult 🤦‍♂️

@@Will-nb8qk You're forgetting that Court was of the Calibre that won 24 slams. She could beat whoever & did

Clijsters retired to start a family and Henin retired due to burnout. Their decisions had nothing to do with Serena. Navratilova won Wimbledon by beating the likes of Goolagong, Evert, Seles and Graf multiple times, a level of competition Serena has never had to face. Graf is the GOAT.

making an argument about a modern player being sent back is really dumb. equipment, technology, training, even the mental makeup of the game has changed significantly since that time. I can tell you right now, Serena's game would not translate well to 80s style tennis.

Martina Hingis beat Serena Willams in her PRIME. Martina Hingis would have won 24 Grandslams if she didn't get ban for cocaine.

@@Thomas_Erickson correct, they wouldn't return her serve!

@@PravoslavniVitez Serena beat Steffi in the final at Indian Wells when she was just 17 and before you say Steffi was past it by then she won the French that year! Serena is the GOAT, if it wasn't for illness, injury bad officials she'd have won 30 minimum. Sharapova was as good as any of the players of the Navratilova era. She'd have won 10 or 12 slams in the 80s or 90s. Wozniacki was very similar in style and quality to Evert but couldn't live with Serena. Just ask Martina or Evert who is the GOAT!

Graff was relentless and my era so im gonna say she's the greatest.

No he was right!!! Martina Hingis beat Serena Willams multiple times and there is no way she would have lost 15 times straight to her. If Martina Hingis dint get BAN for cocaine she would have 23 Grand Slams also.

Exactly. If you beat the #2 player 19 times in a row, and that player was dominating everybody else for a stretch, then that speaks to how dominant the #1 was.

@@DaggerMan11 that would be true, but no one has ever put Sharapova anywhere near the top of tennis conversation. She’s never even been a HM to the top 10 discussion. So his point is, which historically great player can you use to measure Serena against? Not saying he’s right, but that’s his point.

@@Thomas_Erickson Eh, she definitely belongs in an Honorable Mention to the top 10 discussion. There's really not much separating Sharapova's career from the Henin/Venus/Goolagong tier. And if she had more success against Serena she'd be firmly within that tier. But also, the depth on the WTA tour in the 70s and 80s was lacking. If you do an analysis using a metric like Elo rating from that era, you'd find that the distribution of Elo ratings was far more bimodal than it would become in the 90s and 2000s.

@@Thomas_Erickson I don’t know what tennis broadcasts you watch, but when Sharapova beat Serena 4 times in a row early in her career, she was touted as being the next great!! If it weren’t for Serena, she would have undoubtedly won more slams.

Madd dogg WINS!!

You vultures really have ruined sports media.

J Will cracks me up with his serious face man

100% the greatest but she isn't from the States so they don't care

@@oscarthomasfifa4871 Exactly she had 22 slams at age 30 when she retired compared to Serena’s 13 at the same age. Also won CYGS and Olympic Gold in same year and has 4 slams at each one which Serena can’t say. It’s just moronic honestly

@@lyndonchastain3181 yeah but her main competitor monica seles got stabbed in her prime. Imagine if someone stabbed nadal in his prime , Federer would have more majors

guys, if seles isn't stabbed by a graf supporter, are we talking about graf??? seles was closer to Serena than graf

@@derekkeane5152 Name me one competitor of Serena that was on the Level of seles graf or navratilova. Serena would have less than 10 grand slams if she would have played in that era

bc he didnt break down every accomplishment in tennis means he dk about the topic

@@princecheck11 it's debate show. You're supposed to argue and he didn't. He just made the JJ REDICK CP3 vs Bob Cousy argument and then went straight to playing the race card. He didn't make any tennis arguments. So yeah...

@@amrithbharadwaj4945 you saying he played the race card like that was his whole argument that was one of his reasons why & u act like it’s wrong to include that on being the greatest

@@princecheck11 I said the race argument was one of the two counter arguments that he made. And yes, it matters but not as much as American sports media thinks it does. You never hear Latin American, Brown or Far east asian tennis players complain about it as much

@@amrithbharadwaj4945 Just bc you dont complain about it dont mean anything & u act like serena brought it up

There you have it folks can't argue with that

Yeah right before Serena nobody cared about tennis LMAO bad take

@@MrGenexxx I like 🎾

Tiger is nowhere neat the GOAT in Golf, Jack Nicklaus was far better for far longer.

Jordan also isn't even top 3 in NBA history. 1. Bill Russell 2. Kareem 3. Magic Johnson

Agree. We shouldn’t do it ever. But we won’t stop because it’s what we do. It’s’ fun and we enjoy it.

a prime Serena would beat every other woman in history in their prime. It really is not even a debate Please enlighten everyone with the factual evidence you have to prove that…and I want factual evidence not your opinion

Oh I don't know; we would have to put a wooden racquet in Serena's hands, and have her play on faster grass courts to even begin to ascertain that statement...

Prime for prime, both Navratilova and Graf were better than Serena. They had the higher peak, were more dominant and more consistent.

Martina Hingis would've dog walked Serena and it's not even close. Hingis had 13 grand slams by age 21 and was world #1 for 5yrs straight. Serena had 1 Grand Slam by age 21 and wasn't close to the Top 5 of the WTA tour. 🤦

Serena would literally have like 5 grand slams at most if she had to play against These women for her grand slams titles

But Graf has more WTA titles than Serena (107 vs 73) more matches wins (902-855) despite playing 10 less years than Serena, Graf had more weeks at no 1 (377 vs 319) , more year end no 1 (8 vs 5), longer match winning streak (66 vs 34). Graf had quadruple slam & won golden slam in 1988 something Serena never achieved. So Graf is GOAT then Martina then Serena.

- Steffi won the Golden Calendar Slam (only player in history) - Steffi has 377 weeks at #1 (all time record) - Steffi has 8 YE #1 (all time record) - Steffi won all of the Slams at least 4 times (only player in history) - Steffi won at least 6 Slams on all surfaces (only player in history) - Steffi won way more titles than Serena - Steffi has a higher winning % than Serena - Steffi was both more dominant and more consistent than Serena - Steffi had a higher peak than Serena - Steffi had better competition than Serena - Steffi accomplished more than Serena despite playing for 11 less years It’s no contest, Graf is the GOAT.

Lol no she doesn't. Even without the competition argument . Graf has a much better resume than serena. 58 more weeks at no 1 , calender golden slam. Highest conversion eate in grand slams ever male or female. 22/54 . And she did all that and retired at 30 years of age. This is not even half of it . I'm a bit of a casual when it comes to women's tennis so you can certainly assume there's more. She's more consistent and she's more dominant. If serena had 25 slams i wouldn't argue it but 1 more slam isn't enough to cover all the other stats graf has in her favour

Right.. he choose the lighter skin always..lol

always and the more insidious part of that is that the execs do know that it’s needed to appease a large segment of the their audience. and like anything, controversial takes sell.

And Serena beat Graf twice and Graf retired,she didn't want any parts of Serena!!

Serena the 🐐 it's not even close

@@hotfire4647 Graf, Seles & Hingis would have DOG WALKED Serena. Hingis for example was only 16 and became world #1 for 5yrs straight from 96-2000 before she retired at 21 from injury cutting her career short. Seles was the same, stabbed by a crazy fan and was never the same. Graf, last woman to win the calendar slam, last woman to win the Olympic slam, won 22 slams before age 29. At 29 Serena was only up to 13.

@@MafiaboysWorld so a 16 yo becoming #1 for 5 yrs straight is a strong era?Serena beat her at the 99 us open. Hingis didn't necessarily retire because of a particular injury. Seles not overcoming a CUT by a deranged fan that both Williams would've came back from is a sign of...Graf winning her slams in a shorter time doesn't necessarily mean what u want it to mean, how come she didn't stick around for a few more yrs, she was only 30, what she didn't want to match/surpass 24 slams?

@@MafiaboysWorld 🎯

That argument makes no sense. Every athlete has advanced. It’s not like only Serena advanced. She is still playing against tougher competition because everyone has advanced.

@@christianrapper as the average rises, what is possible at the top increases.

@@christianrapper it’s 1 on 1 competition tho

@@PeePeeMilk what? That just means that Serena competing one on one against a bunch of better athletes. I don’t get your point.

Jordan never lost in finals..there is no debate

It is interesting, but I wouldn't say it is a contradiction. When deciding who is the Goat we should look at a wide range of factors. If Player A faced a higher level of competition than Player B, that's a definite "plus" in Player A's column. However, Player B might have other positives that outweigh this, so we could still decide Player B is the Goat.

Level of competition? LOL Graf was getting beat by Seles regularly until the stabbing. Only the ignorant and haters deny Serena's GOAT status.

@@kentstallard6512: good Sir, Serena is definitely in the GOAT conversation and, for that matter, she's my GOAT. However, my larger point is that you just can't ignore level of competition in any debate on the GOAT.

@@kentstallard6512 Martina Navratilova won 167 titles🤫🤫 Serena 73 😂😂

You wouldn't be talking of Serena this much if Justin Henin didnt retire too early.

@@akanimophilip8099 And that’s your adorable opinion. However, we live in a reality where Serena Williams went on to dominate women’s tennis in every conceivable way and is talked about all the time. Hope that doesn’t upset you too much, bud.

NBA players are more athletic now and have better medicine but seem to get hurt more than previous generations of NBA players when the NBA was much more physical

That's a stupid argument. Ofc players of today are better than that of the past. But that not exactly what we use in GOAT debates.

Before Serena had a child.. her grand slam final record was ridiculous and 2nd to none...and technically still is. No other player gas come back, from birthing a child, and reached as many slam finals!

Graf got helped by Seles getting stabbed on court which derailed her career

@@garygee3888 Steffi was 6-4 against Seles before her attack!, then 4-1 after her return! Steffi wasn't helped by anyone except herself the G.O.A.T. 🐐

I've said this for years. If not for the illness and injuries, Venus would have close to 20 titles and Serena would have less than she currently has.

If Monica Seles was.t sadly stabbed graf doesn't win that many grand slams. Graf is great, but Serena is undoubtedly better. You don't really understand tennis.

Steffi also was the last woman to win the Grand Slam. 👍

@@kindofbluenyc Name me one player Serena had to face regularly that was on the Level of seles graf and navratilova? If Serena would have played in that era she would have less than 10 grand slams

@@MafiaboysWorld True. But Serena won the "Serena Slam".

@@kindofbluenyc That doesn't matter. Wasn't 4 slams in the 1 calendar year, which is what makes the Grand Slam. That's why Novak was trying so hard to win all 4 slams last year but the pressure got to him at the US open and he missed out on the slam.