Master Modes Don't Suck, You Do!

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We're going to discussing MasterModes today and if they are really as bad as some make it out to be or if its just a bunch of noise.
Disclaimer: I'm being corrected that the first portion of the Mantis/C2 isn't accurate. Please take that into account while watching, Enjoy!
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Опубликовано:

25 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 194

@Citizen_Jim 11 дней назад

Want to try StarCitizen? Use this link for in game rewards. robertsspaceindustries.com/enlist?referral=STAR-7Z5D-Y6PX

@jamieford9391 10 дней назад

My favourite is the typing I have to do now to navigate. I enjoy sitting casually at an OM while I search for where I'm going, even though I know it's right there... Also I'd prefer more labels on everything, I hate immersion😡

@rosencrantze 7 дней назад

So I went to a car dealership the other day. Said, 'I need something practical'. No problem, says the dealer. Got this little four seater flat back, plenty room for the family and cargo too, and great safety features, although when you hit fifty the anti-lock breaks and airbags deactivate. Oh, and if you switch on the overhead light the car comes to complete stop instantaneously, liquifying all your internal organs. Oh, most immersive, said I, quoting the great CR in the sky.

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

Why do I always hear this "you just don't like changes" arguement from people who like MM? There are so many arguements to why MM sucks, but the only bullshit I hear from pro MM players is "you just don't like changes" or "you're just a pvp player who can't own other anymore". No. That's not true. I'm not a PvP'er nor am I against changes. But not all changes are automatically for the better. Changes can also make things worse. The flight in MM sucks donkey balls. How anyone can think the flight is good is beyond me. Weird different top speeds depending which side of your ship is moving. How does that make ANY sense IN SPACE?! Breaking in nav mode is slow. But switch to SCM mode and you suddenly have such powerful breaks you would actually crash through the canopy if there was any kind of sim element in this game at this point. Also, the UI when flying feels so old. Like it's from a jet fighter game from the 90's.

@Valkyani День назад

Like it or not MM is here to stay, so you better get used to it XD

@latjolajban81 День назад

@@Valkyani I have no problem with a combat mode and a nav mode. The problem is how the ship fly. The flying is just stupid. it feels bad.

@feariex 11 дней назад

I think they should make SCM speeds your boost speed for each ship and boost should not make your top speed faster but rather just make you accelerate to that SCM top speed faster

@asog88 10 дней назад

The problem is it stops representing a scaled down version of real physics though. The game can’t allow us to sped up to the speed of light. So the only way to replicate different acceleration levels I what MM is doing

@vik12D 10 дней назад

My only gripe about MM is the lack of realism, such as the sudden deceleration from NAV to SCM. I prefer the "Expanse" version of space flight versus "Star Wars" but otherwise, I don't have major issues with MM. It doesn't quite make sense that you can't have shields, too. Honestly, it might be better to get rid of shields altogether and just have armor. Maybe just shields on Capital ships? Regardless of the the flight model, it seems like they need to work on pulling people out of QT. Make the Mantis stationary but give it a huge range? I don't know.

@nydabeats 10 дней назад

dogfighting in atmo feels like fighting in hot air balloons, its so slow and boring. MM didn't really change much about dogfighting besides the speed. Its the same combat at 1/5 of the speeds. Old model was way too fast, but this is way too slow, I hope cig finds the middle ground.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Middle ground best ground!

@darrenreynolds456 9 дней назад

The problem with MM is exactly what you're showing in this video. It was made for PvP fighters. Vultures, Argo Rafts and other slow, under powered slow non combat ships suffer. Be all good and fine to "dunk" on other fighters, but what if you have no way to defend yourself against these PvP sweats? For me, MM took away my freedom to choose whether to fight or flight. It's that loss of freedom that really grinds my gears.

@scribblescrabble3185 10 дней назад

MM introduced a terrible flight experience in SCM, imo. It is like flying through thick soup that gets thicker when you make a flip. How about doing that in atmosphere only and keep a nice 6DoF experience in space? You know, where there is no air resistance.

@feariex 11 дней назад

With master modes I am so much better at pve and pvp. Kinda feels unearned. While the previous flight model was much harder to master, I liked it more and fights at those high speeds felt a lot cooler imo

@The_Fallen_1 10 дней назад

My gripes about it are less about the modes and more about the ridiculous vulnerability your forced into when you travel around. A lot of MM's problems could be solved by just allowing Nav mode to have shields. If they don't want people to be able to just switch modes and flee, then they should incentivise bringing QEDs to fights as that's the entire point of them existing in the first place. Being unable to do anything when you're inside atmo in a non-combat ship is a terrible idea, as you're basically unable to fight back, and you can't flee as you just drop your shields and die in seconds because you can't build up the speed to get to an altitude to jump out. That's not to mention the problem with control lockout a lot of people get when they drop out of quantum where the game refuses to let you do anything like move or switch to SCM, making you an easy target for anyone who just happens to be waiting there. I think MM is overall a good thing, but damn they majorly screwed up some parts of it despite over a year of being warned, and even made it worse than what people were warning them about originally.

@misstressscarlet 10 дней назад

Maybe play smarter?

@The_Fallen_1 10 дней назад

@@misstressscarlet Playing smarter won't fix their design flaws, especially when some of those flaws are around being locked out of doing anything for up to 10 seconds and you can now be killed in less than 1, and others are around being forced into a highly predictable location if you want to go somewhere, sometimes with no alternatives to get around campers with.

@kevinm3751 10 дней назад

I agree with that but I also find the slow speed a joke and for me that is what makes this mode so arcade then anything that was described by Chris it would be!

@pirateradio8420 10 дней назад

Totally agree. Too bad you did not experience the old 2.6 era flight model. This is similar to that in some ways in that it brings ship combat closer. I think we are on the right path again for fun combat, while still retaining a decent skill ladder. Ultimately, in game, 1V1 means nothing. Master Modes is moving towards a system which requires team play and brings different ships into the mix for different rolls.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

I agree, while being good in 1v1's feels nice. Engagements in the PU will ultimately come down to fleet compositions, communication, positioning, and just overall fleet cohesion. And, I'm completely fine with that.

@armyfreak9389 6 дней назад

2.6 was my absolute favorite. Every fight felt like it was balanced on a knife's edge, balancing maneuverability and G's was critical.

@kevinm3751 10 дней назад

Not sure how long you have been around but the biggest complaint that those of us that play for the dog fighting have is how this is no longer a 6 degree of freedom flight mode and the speed is way to slow. Combine that with the ridiculous classification method they are grouping ships into and balancing accordingly. I find it hilarious hearing the mode described as being better than the last and here we are playing the 4th version of the mode and we hear the same BS every time they scrap what they have been doing and start over. O and how about we stop making the claim we need to lower the bar for those who cant play! Its that ignorant state of mind that has given birth to this so called master modes. Its closer to amateur mode, they destroyed what "master mode" looked like with this current joke of a mode! Personally I am pissed because Chris promised he was building the game with the idea of using real world mechanics and theory and take full advantage of 6 degrees of freedom. Call it what you want but the current state is missing 3 degrees and they have totally failed at stopping or even minimizing jousting.

@yankov-ink-bits 10 дней назад

My opinion is that shields shouldn't be turn off completely. It's ridiculous to enter planet atmosphere without shields. In nav mod they should be lowered but not turned off.

@seancantwell3025 10 дней назад

At least an option in between would be nice. Give us shields but maybe a reduced speed vs nav but faster than guns.

@ParagonFangXen 11 дней назад

Im not a fan of MM because Id rather have accurate 6DoF simulation then have balanced combat. I was not "good" before MM, i am not particularly "good" in MM combat, but i dont care about being good. Id rather the skill ceiling be through the roof if that means i get a more acurate sim, because whats important to me is the sim more than the gameification. I get why so many people have the opposite opinion, but i dont play SC to play CoD witj spaceships. I play SC to play DCS with spaceships. Give me my realistic spaceship speeds and flight models over ease of understanding combat any day.

@OneTomato 10 дней назад

That’s not what the majority of people want though, while a realistic flying sim is appealing overall is not good or balanced. Is extremely frustrating having such an imbalance combat to the point of that almost any player with no skill using a very basic light fighter could destroy a fully crew hammerhead

@ParagonFangXen 10 дней назад

@@OneTomato thats not what an actual simulation environment woukd result in. Properlly simulated, light fighters are going to get chewed through when armor comes online. I also wasnt claiming what the mahority want, i was expressing what I want. The majority of people dont know tbe difference between the two, and dont express a preference. The majority of people who play, will never discuss game ballance like this, or try to take on a hammerhead with an Archimedes, weather its possible or not. MOST players DONT care about META at all. They care if it feels good. And you can feel good without ballance. You can feel awful, with ballance.

@OneTomato 9 дней назад

@@ParagonFangXen that’s wrong, the perfect simulation would still have the same exact result of the old system, it doesn’t matter if armor come in, that’s not the problem Is the SPEED, you just need a fast light fighter and you can destroy any medium and large ship, due to how fast they where you could engage and disintegrate at any moment making impossibile for the hammerhead turrets to actually aim, it’s like trying to shoot a mosquito with a sniper from a kilometer while is moving continuously and the only thing the ligh fighter have to do is slowly chip the HP of the other ship, no counter play at all and this has been a problem for many years, it couldn’t be resolve and that’s why it had to be remade from zero. Regular player DO care about balance, because games that are extremely unbalance and unfair are not fun, when you continuously die fans lose from unfair reasons where you couldn’t do anything, it’s a game, fun come first and not trying to make the game realistic as possibile.

@ParagonFangXen 9 дней назад

@@OneTomato tldr: your wrong about "perfect" simulation, speed is not an issue of sim but of gamification, and you didnt address any number of alternate ways light fighters will and should be ballanced. You are wrong about how real simulation involving armor values would play out, and i have the benefit of reality as evidense. The OG sky fortress, the B29, as well as modern gunships of the sea (even though those are a different beast entirely) show what happens in proper simulation. They are vulnerable to faster craft that can strike hard and fast, but seldome were felled by single light combatants. This is because their defences would tear through light craft and armor and countermeasures would sustaint them from individual attackers. It would have taken a pilot if extraordinary luck and skill to singlehandedly take on a B29 and live to tell of it. What happened before 3.23 with snubs and light fighters being able to effectively singlehandedly cripple Hammerheads was only due to the non sim, gamified, nature of SC. It's not tricordings fault, it's that snubs and light fighters are able to perform feats they shouldn't be able to because of unrealistic limits on top speed and acceleration that benefit them, as well as a hull hp and damage system that disproportianately benefits small craft. A large ship in space, with more thrust per capita in one direction should be able to outrun a smaller ship that has to split its acceleration throughout its maneuvering, even if it has somewhat higher acceleration to start with. It's explicitly the non-newtonian nature of SC space that artificially holds back top speed of large vessels, contributing to the environment we saw. Then we add what weapons should be doing. In a sim environment, small arms fire should be dealing limited if any damage to a large ship and its defenses, but the larger munitions of quad size 4 turrets should tear through light or unarmored targets with ease. Weapon scaling does not currently reflect the same power scaling as other components, but should, where roughly 3 of the size below is roughly equivalent to 1 of the size above. With physicalized armor, i would also expect this to bear out as different size munitions and types of munitions (canon bolts vs gattling charges) having different penetrative values, with the benefit of the hammerheads size 4 turrets essentially being that they have total dominance over light fighters thanks to being big enough to have total light armor penetration even with its fastest firing munitions, and in a sim environment it should be able to do so at a much greater effective range than a light fighter. Light fighters should dominate dogfights, medium fighters should be bruisers, and heavy fighters should not be focused on dogfighting at all. You clearly mistake what CIG had as sim, it wasnt. Its never been. But it was closer in many ways before, and i found it a helluva lot more fun before they made my super tech space ships litterally slower then modern fighters and ignore the laws of physics, and im not the only one. I have heard WAY more people complain about MM than celebrate MM. If you need to keep makimg claims about simulation based soley on your experience and knowlege of a non-finalized non-sim environment, you do you. We all start somewhere, and maybe that is the data set you personally have to reference. I just ask you consider what ive said, weather it makes sense, and if you have a refutation, to make sure it has solid reasoning behind that fits the context. What we had before was not simulation. What we have now is even less representative of reality. The further we go from reality, the more work it will take to ballance and make "fun". Reality has a consistant and enjoyable set of rules, it allows for a great depth of mechanical freedom. Arcadifying and gaminfying spaceflight in this case, seems to limit our mechanical freedom.

@quantom6 7 дней назад

@@OneTomatoit is balanced. Balance does not mean everyone has the same ease to pilot. The balance comes in ship capability and choices. Pilot skill is entirely individual. You cannot make a game that "Balances" for skill. If you try that you remove all challenge from the game

@nunyabiznasspunk 10 дней назад

I totally agree! I tossed my dual virpils and plugged in my old Xbox controller. I dominate now!

@Teejay82_ 2 дня назад

IMHO: MM is like riding a car on the highway in NAV mode.. And when you get off the highway, the engine automatically goes into limp mode until you get back on the highway. Its so slooow and tedious

@emperorurbi 10 дней назад

I think its nice that you like it! good! I don't agree though, and more than half of the spectrum posts don't either. The pro's and cons you mention about MM and the old model are mostly tuning, and yes the tuning was getting weird! with an overall power creep for newer ships (and the gladius) The real issue with master modes form me. * the boost now is weird, does not make sense in space and the old one felt way more fun, boosting to squeeze that last inch to get on target was cool, almost constantly flying in boost to fight is not. * the artificial limiters are counter productive, I see you still trichord, but if you roll into your target now, pitch to the right position and correct it it with a yaw move your pitch will slow down. It feels really off to fly like this, for me * the mode switching and 35G space brake when switching modes is dumb, a flip and burn was so much cooler, but its less effective at the moment so why bother. * space and athomespere feel the same now, when for example flying above ghost hollow you had to choose where you would pull to fight if you would have an advantage over other fighters. * jousting is far from gone (or at least in my experience, it did not get worse either) * engagement ranges are still around 1km (because of the cannons, so that's a tuning issue) * the current envelope is so small, mosts ships in the same category will kind of feel the same (I hope CIG proves me wrong on this) For me personally MM broke more then it fixed, and a lot of the issues are tied into the flight model, not the ship tuning. If they would have cut the speeds by 30% in the old model, and added the current weapon spreads and characteristics to it, I think we would have a way more fun game... The old model needed some love, not an overhaul. I really hope they improve a lot of the features by 4.0 and maybe roll back some of the , then w'll give it another shot. Its my own personal opinion and I don't mind people liking it! but I do hope cig listens to the feed back and finds a middle ground that's enjoyable for most players.

@BlazeBlevinspace 11 дней назад

Swap to scm mode and attack C2 can win the day. I have been learning my way around master modes since Xeno Threat dropped and spent a lot of time on keybinds and tweaking. I can definitely hold my own in a PVP-PVE situation better now than 10 days ago. That said, SCM speed needs a bump, and weapons need more tuning, but I think it's moving in the right direction, honestly.

@amineabdz 10 дней назад

- Advertise space sim. - Implement space sim, not perfect but at least it obeys physics. - Proceed to remove the 'sim' from flight because combat. Seriously though, who came up with the idea of introducing a speed wall so low, to the point where we have cars on the ground now, that are faster than space ships in space 900 years in the future...

@txsicshooter 5 дней назад

The SCM ceiling is 250 meter per second or 550 Miles per hour. No car goes north of 310 miles per hour and those are speciality made for that purpose.

@amineabdz 5 дней назад

@@txsicshooter Do you see the problem my good sir ? the fact that it's even conceivable to compare their velocities is laughable

@MrPaulMek 4 дня назад

@@txsicshooter lol. the elevators travel that fast.

@Gnarfendorf 11 дней назад

The current iteration of mm does indeed suck, there is a lot of finetuning to be done. So no, its not "us" that suck, its how the game is currently balanced that sucks compared to before mm. Old system and balance had its own issues, but the artificial slowdown of combat feels bad atm.

@jbarnesfpv2810 11 дней назад

It just doesn't make sense. What is slowing me down in space? It's just some space magic that slows you down with no thrust? If I'm keeping full throttle and going no faster than 250 it goes against all my knowledge of space and physics

@BigSneed404 10 дней назад

The fact of the matter is that unless you are specifically playing a simulator, gameplay matters more than realism every single time. Star Citizen is not a simulator and it has never been a simulator and thank God it's not a simulator. In my opinion, the new flight model feels more fun than the old one, and that's all that really matters. Anything else is secondary.

@asog88 10 дней назад

The force field. Also, it’s all to scale. The game couldn’t let you get up to the speed of light so the physics are off anyway.

@porecemusnox8805 10 дней назад

SC was never meant to and never will be a "true" sim. Looking at how broad an audience it tries to cater towards, gameplay trumps realism at some point.

@YellowKing1986 10 дней назад

But also, irl you dont respawn, you dont see your health bar, and you dont own a spaceship. It can not be realistic for technical reasons anyway. It just has to be a good game, which it isnt yet.

@jbarnesfpv2810 10 дней назад

The magic speed walls just "feel" bad now. It feels like we are playing star wars squadrons way too arcade game like

@jaykay5838 10 дней назад

Whats i find ironic about MM, is i used to fight at SCM speed because it was the most responsive. Altering the ships characteristics depending which mode we are in now, was not a good idea. Coming from Elite Dangerous, they should have looked at their flight model for something like this. Elite now has the superior system.

@wazuphomiez 10 дней назад

That's my gripe about all the complaints of MM. Pre-MM, most of my combat was done at SCM speeds, or maybe just a bit higher. Any higher and it became a jousting match

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

I guess it's very to each their own, I personally can't stand the flight model of Elite and it's one reason of what kept me from getting into the game. It's wild to see someone say its better when I don't enjoy it. Not, being argumentative or saying you're wrong just commenting on the notion and difference in one person opinion vs another's. Hope you enjoyed the video!

@jaykay5838 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim I think for a balance of what they gave us would be to just turn weapons off during NAV mode. Dropping shields seems strange, and to the conscern of trapping someone who was pulled out of QT. . if we had some type of webbing modual like EVE Online has, that could be something. Each of these other games has mechanics CIG could draw from.

@PrawnWonton 11 дней назад

My issue with MM has nothing to do with combat or speed. Even if combat in MM is the best thing since sliced bread, it is still a failure. Why? Because it makes flying ships more annoying and less fun than before. The vast amount of time spent in cockpit for all players is not combat time. Even for sweaty PvPers, most time spent is not combat. It is spent flying from point A to B, getting out of atmosphere, landing, taking off, slow boating to mission markers, not to mention mining, salvaging, hauling, racing, bunker running, etc. MM flying is more tedious in every way. So many more button presses to do the same thing, and it is completely unnecessary. Even just being a turret gunner is worse than that before, because you can't even power it on outside SCM mode. Can't even enjoy the views. Every issue MM hoped to solve could have been solved in a better and more elegant manner without the needless faff required now. It is very disappointing. I find myself not even logging in because flying ships isn't fun any more. I think it sacrificed too much and gave too little in return, because it turned just flying around, which was a joy, into a chore.

@ender5817 11 дней назад

I just got back into the game. It reminds me of where we started.

@mrdashin8323 10 дней назад

Snubs should have qt drives but only enough range to hop around a system. But not system to system.

@jeremiahbond2810 11 дней назад

Skill? Lol, im not a fighter and i like it. I dont pirate nor PVP but i sure like fn up those whom are. Arrogance is the lifeblood of fools.

@luistigerfox 11 дней назад

SC needs its non combat players. Noncombat and PVE players will be the lifeblood of the game once we really start seeing the verse grow and have an economy coming about.

@asog88 10 дней назад

I’ve liked master modes. I’m a slightly above average pilot based on my PvP record. And I’ve faced people that have a higher skill level. There is definitely still a high skill ceiling. If it bottoms out and at some point becomes who has the better ship? Good?

@Ryecrash617 9 дней назад

My issue with Master Modes is more from a logic and realism perspective and it is from a game perspective. From Day one Star Citizen was supposed to be the "Best damn space sim" and although the "sim" aspect can be argued either way, Master Modes definitely goes the opposite direction of "sim." Let's look at the logic of power usage: With Master Modes you can either go fast OR shoot and have shields. That means that the difference in speed from weapon mode to Nav mode uses the same amount of power as my shields and my weapons? There is no way that makes sense. I suggest a way where you only have enough power to use two (engines, shields, and weapons) effectively or all three mediocrely.

@larrymitchell6470 11 дней назад

All I know is I just tried it and from a mouse/keyboard stand point…WAY easier to fly. HOSAS not needed but more engaging

@Valkyani День назад

MM is here to stay. All armchair devs can keep crying for all I care.

@artlife9563 11 дней назад

Totally agree, we need more tuning but it is moving in the right direction.

@edgelordcutting 10 дней назад

Bro if you were letting C2s get away prior to master modes that's a serious skill issue. I agree with everything else you said.. but yeah i spent literally months on end pirating C2s with the mantis, a c2 has a top speed around 950 it cant just out run a mantis. It was definitely a huge problem for combat that people could run away, tricord etc. The F8c was complete bullshit as its top speed was higher then the mantis. A better example would be Bounty hunting criminals as prior to master modes they were basically impossible to catch unless they wanted to fight.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Man, I specifically remember my friend group melting our ships because it was so slow compared to many ships. It had great acceleration but crap for top end. Maybe this was just so long ago that it's not been relevant for some time now and probably shouldn't have been mentioned in the video, or maybe im hallucinating from years of alpha exposure, lol. Otherwise thanks for the comment, hope you enjoyed the video!

@Traumglanz 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim Mantis top speed was basically 1400m/s, that's almost as fast as a m50. Which is only 57m/s faster than the Mantis, which clearly was designed as interceptor. Did you forget to unlock your speed limiter? ;-)

@paratrooperz1 11 дней назад

i want armor and alpha damage resistance before they make anymore changes to flight weapons and more

@mentalward718 10 дней назад

I enjoy MM. Fights feel fun and you have to dedicate to them. No more lightspeed strafing

@jonathanp906 11 дней назад

I hate MM because I keep getting killed within seconds of arriving at OMs by griefers. There's never time to get shields up or quantum away you're a sitting duck. Its totally stupid, makes the whole PU like the lawless areas of EVE.

@twistsnakeanklesvids261 11 дней назад

Don't your shields go back up as soon as you leave nav mode? Or can you not leave nav mode until your quantum drive cools off?

@FlynnStrider 11 дней назад

Hasn’t happened to me once. Switch to scm and raise + boost shields, once at max speed for scm drop countermeasures and nav mode away

@warren3174 11 дней назад

I think a lot of it is still bugs and server issues too. I was getting destroyed yesterday and had no idea. No sound , no indications I was being shot.....nothing until I got a message someone had committed a crime against me. Even then I was just confused by it and declined charges. Then it popped up again and a third time. Then suddenly my MFD showed my hull all red. I then hit third person view and saw shots hitting me. I decoupled and went to turn 180 and blew up. I don't blame MM's. That was server nonsense. But I could have easily tried to blame MM's. CIG servers have the highest kill counts. LOL Give them time to get things balanced. Keep at it. I think eventually they'll allow shields up in NAV mode and only disable weapons. But they've stated its all placeholder at the moment so just try to let them sort it out. Try not to let it frustrate you out of playing. Everything can change dramatically with every patch.

@TheJZP 11 дней назад

Weird, that has never happened to me not one single time.. hmm?

@BigSneed404 10 дней назад

I have NEVER had this happen even once.

@attieable 10 дней назад

Mouse and keyboard pilots saying MM is great....MM="i can win mode" for sucky pilots. Bad pilots were also the ones always going max speed overshooting target. But glad you can feel like a winner with that F8C

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

I don't even own an f8 atm tho? I have a full virpil setup and have no problems with keyboard and mouse pilots being viable. If the game is only designed for people that have 2k+ to drop on peripherals, then it's a bad design to start with.

@loonyonair 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim completely agree.

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

Nope. I'm a mouse and keyboard player and I think MM is shite. Well, the flight model is shite. Having 2 modes (transport and combat) is fine. But the actual flight model is shit.

@Em.P14 10 дней назад

yes i do suck cause i can't easily set the desired target speed anymore with this bs flightmodel ( if there is a way without having to first set your goal and then incrementallx increase thrust %age until it is where xou want it to be, PLEASE LET ME KNOW i just want my old sticky throttle back (mouse wheel controlls the speed limit and thruster output will always try to achieve it), i already figured out on how you can disable that retarded slow speed wirh landing gear, if i can get the sbove fixed aswell, i might be able to somewhat forgive them for the rediculously slow speed you have to fight now in with) the old was just the matter on how much are you whillig to give. i do play war thunder an almost top tier jet fights would be so much fun if they would not have implemented those "beyond sight range" missiles. the speeds there where barely off of what we had back then "jousting" would not be such a problem as it is just a regular flight tactic when you most likely whill never backstrafe fight your enemy, in sc fights where even easier as you had 6 degrees of freedom, not just the 3.5 you got in a plane( 1.pitch, 2. yaw, 3. roll, 3.5 how much forward throttle you want to give (at least that's, most of it), in sc you can additionally accellerate in all 3 directions ). i just don't get the reason to retard the speeds soooooooooo much, couldn't they just have made bigger ships more tankier so those light fighter flies would not sting you to death in an instant ?

@hix420 10 дней назад

It feels not good flying bricks or fallen off turrets. In SCM with the random speedlimit, a Kartu-al feels like a Freelancer. No difference. Just because some m/s more or less in the stats, a ship does not "feel" different from another. Plus, disengageing is an important part of a fight and this has been made nearly impossible. SC should be 6 DOF, not 3.5 DOF somewhat WW2 fighterplanes sh*t^^

@upurshaft 10 дней назад

That thumbnail hurt me emotionally and, surprisingly, physically.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Nothing could hurt more than 10 years in Alpha =P

@PrejudicePotatoe 5 дней назад

"I enjoy high skill ceiling in games" "Lowering the skill ceiling is a good thing" Sure.

@Citizen_Jim 5 дней назад

Show me on the ship where the bad master modes touched you.

@NozomuYume 11 дней назад

I greatly dislike the feeling of constantly bashing into speedwalls in MM. I want smooth newtonian mechanics, not the weird uncommanded accelerations you get when you go "too fast". While this happened in the old flight model if you jousted, if you kept the merge you didn't run into the speedwalls. Meanwhile you *can't* avoid bashing into the walls in MM, in fact the optimal play is to alternate between the walls of the speedwall box bashing madly back and forth like an angry bee locked in a jar. This isn't a smooth or natural feeling, instead I'm constantly made aware that I'm not flying a spaceship and instead am controlling an arcade game.

@FlynnStrider 11 дней назад

There is so much wrong with this comment, not really sure where to start. Maybe you should look into flying decoupled

@MrJproger 11 дней назад

Totally true, I am sharing your felling at 100%

@porecemusnox8805 10 дней назад

You do. The majority of players does not.

@ThomasD66 10 дней назад

The speedwalls are only a problem because the G limits are too high and moment of inertia has never really been a thing.

@OneTomato 10 дней назад

You just unironically highlighted one of the reason why they change it

@SoulShaper12 10 дней назад

I'm sorry. Someone having such a calming, well-mannered and spoken voice in which the line 'non-consensual pvp environments' is dropped makes me feel like I'm being wined and dined while y house is set ablaze ;-; Anyways, I agree on proper fleet formation. Convenience shouldn't outpace thought, thought and consideration are a valuable game mechanic beyond mere input and with clear fleet compositions comes much more engaging fleet ops. 'Target x for this reason, then prioritise y while we get our z out for the run' is a lot more engaging than 'x is near, target x, y is now closer, focus fire'. I do like the variety, but I wish single-seater ships had significant reduction in quantum, making the vanguard the defacto attacking ship, and the hornet or arrow the defacto defending ship, unless a carrier was brought. As for the skill ceiling, I like how it is now significantly harder to fight more than a 1v1; you go from fighting to surviving and angling for an opponent's mistake to capitalise on, more like DCS when you realise you've encountered three, not one person. The issue here is that the handling doesn't lend itself to this very well, in my opinion, and the high time to kill means an accurate assessment and attack doesn't actually aid your survival, as shields are up before they make a second mistake and you're back to dogging. I like your suggestion on a snub requiring logistical choices with jumps. I do think for a 'command unit' style of the Hornet Mk1 advert, this sort of logistical gameplay needs to come about to fully utilise this as a gameplay loop, as opposed to a gameplay distraction. Thanks for the video! Sort of paused, typed my thoughts out to your comments, and listened some more! Hope it wasn't too rambly, see ya in the verse! :)

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

lol thanks... I think.... and no not rambly at all! thanks for the comments and the view!

@rybuds47 5 дней назад

And now 20 mins to get ready just to go slam against the arbitrary walls of master modes. You can do all the mental backflips you can be totally right but when i fly it feels... ARCADE Im on a dcs world break for now while they figure this out.

@prophet0393 11 дней назад

this dude is straight lying saying the C2 would out run a mantis lol .......the C2 has never been able to outrun the mantis ever:) not once:)

@Citizen_Jim 11 дней назад

All

@TheJZP 11 дней назад

👍

@THE.RATGOD 10 дней назад

agreed

@littlefoot2869 11 дней назад

Look it is ok but due find smaller ship left right strafe are dogshit like the sulyan,you can dodge but it so bad when the sever are ass and ship about movement that flys like a potato , really needs mm worked on

@2026820 10 дней назад

I smoke f8s with a gladius now with mm. Folks are salty. They fail to realize we have been playing the game on easy mode all this time. Playing it with a chicken hat on. At least till more systems are flushed. I feel bad for cargo dads when 3.24 drips. Though

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Many carack owners will be even more tilted, poor guys need some love. That ship is gonna be basically useless as soon as freight elevators go live.

@2026820 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim exactly did you see the wait times for the cargo lift like anything over 100 Scu can take a few hours to load if you’re going to do it automatically vs manually

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

I mean, I'm not surprised, my first video on RU-vid is basically a 25 minute word vomit that LTI and ship claim timers are gonna go WAY up *in wait time* if the game ever goes live. It's the only way they can *incentivse* doing something yourself. If a slider existed for automated cargo loading it would be long wait timer on one end and expensive on the other.

@2026820 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim nah I get it. Maybe 2 to 3 years ago cig actually tried starting the whole entire insurance thing as a trial. It only lasted a few days, but some ships would take hours to spawn. Like a warden was over a hour. It was a trial and it got reverted back in a few days.

@Traumglanz 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim I don't need love, I just need a different ship :p

@mrdashin8323 10 дней назад

I'll be honest about mm. Firstly I'm a straight killer ship vs ship. The problem with the last system. Noobs had no chance. Equal skill was a stale mate. Near skill was a grind to get the kill. With mm noobs think they have s chance. Near skill isn't a grind. most people can't escape. You can effectively ambush people. How would i fix mm. All non combat ships get huge shield buff. Their is no reason a single f7a should be able blast any large ship out of the sky in less then 7 sec. Like this poor reclaimer i smoked. Also large ships should automatically be a massive kinetic sink. Just so much ship can absorb rounds naturally. Add armor and kinetics should be useless. With the exception of missiles and large cannons. This way large ships can cruise into atmo. Take care of buisness. Then have a chance of making it back to space alive. In my experience simply adding shields to nav mode in mm current state won't save anyone.

@astheworldlearns 11 дней назад

People just bash it cause it's different. A known trigger for those on the spectrum. People want to go mach 5 while maneuvering in atmosphere, not realizing that it is completely unrealistic. These trolls are holding the game back.

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

No. People bash it cause it sucks. Different speeds depending on your angle? In space? Pff. Stupid. The flight model feels like a space arcade from the 90's.

@Traumglanz 10 дней назад

Not really, it feels bad, that's all. The old model was way different from the norm of space combat games and I still liked it. It was totally useless for pvp combat imho, but it felt a lot more fun. But the same can be said about older MM versions. It just felt better in October than it feels today. And I can't but the finger on why, it's not the weapons, it's not the the speed reduction, because we had this slow tempo already in October for Master Modes, but something changed. Besides, I liked the faster combat, besides I like slower cans, but that's not my point. Worst part is that I can not put my finger exactly on what's wrong, but it feels a lot worse when compared to October. One thing for sure is that I lost the ability to chase, it doesn't work very well against NPCs to chase them and it works even worse in 1vs1. Works fine in group fights still, those certainly are better than what we had in the old model, but still worst than what we had in October. But at least it feels now better when flying low than in October. Anyway, enjoy the game.

@davewills6121 10 дней назад

So very true, you see the same sort of girls who whine incessantly about any change to their ''king of the hill'' mentality, they're terrified that the game is rebalanced, that the game now has a level playing field, and their days of camping and picking on noobs is over, you see it all of the time in BF/COD...they've even tried it in Tarkov....like that's ever going to happen. Yeah its fun to watch them squirm. MM's are going knowhere, rebalancing is the essence of SC and its what makes the game worth playing.....well when hangars drop it will

@TheJZP 11 дней назад

Avenger 1 literally said he has made a career out of teaching people to play SC.. If a game needs a 2nd party to charge a fee how to play it's DOA. 😂

@Rgraceful1 11 дней назад

I like MM needs tweaking but it's good .

@imagines9688 10 дней назад

you trying to start a fight, online? careful

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

We're all just a bunch on nerds yelling at each other at the end of the day.

@mistermisanthrope6398 5 дней назад

No, I'm pretty sure MM sucks more than me. I don't care about the SCM speeds that much. What I don't like is having to switch modes then lose shields and flares. Losing defense is just dumb. If they let you keep your defenses while you escape then I would have no issues other than losing all my settings, weapons groups, etc. every single time you switch modes. Oh, and it's super stupid to decelerate automatically after boost when you're not coupled in SCM.

@vengefuldevil5195 10 дней назад

It's literally a skill issue, these are the same type of people complaining about Elden Ring DLC being too hard right now... This is the games future and it's never had a more clear direction.

@UnstableMedic 10 дней назад

MM is ass, the flight is boring. It's nothing about the change and everything about freedom of movement being removed.

@niklasschwarz4447 11 дней назад

There is no argument that the skill you need is so much lower in the old flight. The F7A wouldn't even be a problem like it was pre-patch. Imo you like mm because its for people like you who are not willing to put in the time

@rybuds47 10 дней назад

MM sucks! You csn spin it however you want and do all the mental backflips and techniques it doesnt matter because it is way less fun to fly than before. It just sucks i dont know how else to say it.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Spin it to win it!

@TheJZP 11 дней назад

The people complaining about it shouldn't have invested so much into an alpha build. 😂

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

Or they could have told us what they were actually gonna do with the game instead of selling a lie.

@LisaSimpsonLiberal 11 дней назад

based

@prophet0393 11 дней назад

slow boring ...yea my kills went up ...but its boring period:)

@Citizen_Jim 11 дней назад

For

@railang142 11 дней назад

I have had the most comments I've had on this platform in regards to MM. Every video that's dunked on it, I've usually given my 2 cents. Most of it is from watching good pilots in the game fly well with MM. I myself am NOT a good pilot. I want to be, but I have a LONG way to go. That being said, those videos I watch, I can FINALLY understand the fight. I can follow it. I can track what's going on, maybe see what's going on in their head, why they did one thing vs another. This is one of the bigger things that I feel like is being dismissed by a lot of the "Aces" out there because they are used to things being so fast. But as a new pilot, trying to get his feet wet, being able to understand a fight without a constant pause, breakdown, play, then another pause, and just see a live fight, it's refreshing.

@feariex 11 дней назад

I get what you mean, but as a new pilot myself as well, I feel like my skill potential is severely bottlecapped. In every fight I just imagine what I could do if I could just move faster. I always feel too slow in every fight. The only way I can maneuver around the enemy when I’m taking too many shots is to just boost past them, turn around and shoot them, boost past them again, repeat.

@sirbonobo3907 11 дней назад

i like MM quit alot

@jakejewkes6688 11 дней назад

Your whole argument about catching a ship with the mantis from quantum confused me, they don’t have an option to go into nav mode at all if they are caught within the bubble with MM, the bubble is 20k just like previous patches, they are automatically dropped 10k from the mantis which means you had plenty of time in both flight models to trap/attack your target, the old model took a bit of skill and coordination but felt rewarding this new model is just boring and makes pirating almost feel like spawn camping, big ships still suffer against light fighters and even manned they struggle because small ships can still sit at 3-4k back and use the new sniper mode

@Citizen_Jim 11 дней назад

They come out of quantum in nav mode, the quantum snare does not force them out of nav mode and into scm mode, It simply restricts them to their ships SCM speeds but they are still in Nav mode. the snare is 20k but the dampener is 14k, in the previous model the C2 had a higher top speed than the mantis had, so you could pull a c2 out of quantum but they easily out paced the mantis and then just warped off like it was a minor inconvenience, there was little skill available that would keep a c2 pilot from just straight line burst flight out of range and off to safety, the only time you could keep one was if the c2 pilot panicked and didn't just fly in a straight line away from the mantis. If the C2 landed and the pilot was paying attention and was full burn as soon as they hit grid, it left the campers with basically no time to react *this was especially worse on a server suffering from any desync between clients* The new model reinforces the need to fly multicrew ships with an actual crew, a Mantis wont last long under a decent turret gunner and will have to either drop bubble or pull range. If a pilot takes the minimum amount of precaution it's still very difficult to set up a successful snare trap, a traveler bouncing to a different celestial for a few moments before traveling to their intended destination on a heavily used trade route will render most snare camps irrelevant, but some can't be bothered by taking the additional time for safety. as far as the weapon engagement ranges, again thats a weapon balance issue that I plan on making a video about. They are going to have to do something akin to specific hull or turret modifiers, there is little other way to balance a weapon that is used across so many different sized hull ships, for example the Size 4 guns on the hammerhead turrets should have better range than the same size 4 gun on a medium fighter, otherwise it will be hard for them to ever make the hammerhead into the anti fighter platform its designed to function as. Thanks for the view and comment tho! hope you otherwise enjoyed the content!

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim No the C2 never outpaced the Mantis.

@Traumglanz 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim As someone wise guy said in a video I heared awhile about Omnisky cannons, but that's tunning issue. Making the C2 faster than an interceptor would have been a silly design decision, though I am relative sure that my m2 was not that fast nor that the Mantis was that slow. I might be wrong, but certainly the Hercs really can fly for ships that big, but iirc the speed was even below 1000 m/s for the C2, so pretty slow compared to all fighters. Pretty fast for a large ship. The Mantis had a top speed of almost 1400m/s Maybe you remember something wrong?

@prophet0393 11 дней назад

ok yea pvp tier list changed so much lol rofl!!!!!!!!!...it was the glad and arrow now its the hornet lol period ...this guy lol this whole video lol not one good point lol

@Citizen_Jim 11 дней назад

The

@the_h15z 10 дней назад

i like mastermodes

@warren3174 11 дней назад

Spending time in Arena Commander offline and online sorting out keybinds and tweaking systems goes a long long way for dealing with MM's .

@madmechanic7976 11 дней назад

MM is awful, Helldivers is great 😃

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

At least we can agree on spreading democracy!

@notcarson2227 11 дней назад

At 2:58 what are you talking about??? The mantis was one of the fastest ships in the game prior to 3.23. It went like >1300 m/s and the c2 only went like ~1000 m/s

@CrimsonKing5298 10 дней назад

you obviously dont know anything about interdiction so let me educate you when you snatch someone out of qt with a distance of 10km, it does not stop them from starting qt again. you have to turn off snare, then turn on dampening (all of this in SCM btw). when you turn on dampening it doesnt immediately poof out to a 18ish KM bubble. it grows out. so you have to maneuver over to them in nav, swap to scm, physically switch on (no hotkey available) dampening within about 5ish km. and pray by the time you do all this, they havent wipped a 180 in nav and blasted away. there is an actual technique to interdiction. my best results usually come with me seeing someone, immediately going to NAV to blast over to them, then go SCM at full speed after crossing the 5km threshold, then flipping SCM and manually hitting dampener so in closing, hes absolutely right about his snare example. its happened to me also

@Traumglanz 10 дней назад

@@CrimsonKing5298 There was no nav mode, SCM speed was just that, a speed with the full range of speed you had avaible, And switching the speed limiter on/off or switching from SCM limit to unlimited was all on keybinds. And with 12km range on the QD, that whole issue is gone anyway with or without a change to the flight model. It's totally unrelated. Lastly you did spread out anyway, so your fellow pirates usually have the target disabled before the Mantis got into range ... at least that is how it worked for us prior to 3.23. The biggest challange was waiting for a target instead of catching it. Once someone was in the snare... he was dead anyway.

@CrimsonKing5298 10 дней назад

@@Traumglanz "so you have to maneuver over to them in nav, swap to scm, physically switch on (no hotkey available) dampening within about 5ish km" if you actually read what i was saying, im talking about theres no hotkey for dampening. im very aware of hotkeys and what i can and cant do with the mantis. ive been flying it since it came out. "And with 12km range on the QD, that whole issue is gone anyway with or without a change to the flight model. It's totally unrelated" it is absolutely related currently because it takes actual skill to be able to quickly maneuver over in time and swap to dampening and grow the bubble. interdiction was nerfed for 3.23. you used to be able to snatch and dampen at the same time. but im totally fine with the nerf. i feel its a good balance.

@ddavis5442 11 дней назад

I hope there are more streamers that show up like you. Very logical vs what I have seen recently. Keep at it. And I dont usually like pirates, so that says something. I agree with all you say in here, it is def going in the right direction. I have finally seen people use a good variety of ships now vs your only option a LF. Pray they dont bend to all the wants of the The LF and keep there goal, it will be a very fun game if they do.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Awww dude, thanks so much!

@6Pawel9 6 дней назад

RIP STAR CITIZEN, MM is made by noobs for noobs to play, slowing down takes all fun and dynamic from flying, anyone who is defending MM never really was good at dogfighting and will also rationalise any stupid decison made by CIG, becuse when people aren't skilled enough with something they won't understand how it is to think and behave as skilled person and that leads to stupid statements and toxicity with no arguments when they lose. This is beginning of the end of star citizen. Sorry for my bad english.

@jimdear4304 4 дня назад

Nice click bait title. You’ll go far

@Citizen_Jim 4 дня назад

You just like that my name is Jim!

@JonathanS89 10 дней назад

2:50 I really enjoyed this visual, any chance you could do more explanations for pvp stuff using these kinds of visuals for fleet comps in various settings (such as fleet comps with HHs fighters, gunships etc) ?

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

I can't make promises as I'm still very much learning how to edit video and trying to push myself beyond comfort zones.. But I will try just because you asked so nicely!!!!!!

@JonathanS89 10 дней назад

@@Citizen_Jim lol thank you sir!

@prophet0393 11 дней назад

once again anther bullshizz statement pop went down 50% after MM lol but this jack A says its been more pppl rofl! .....the stats are out buddy pop is down!...master modes and 2hour cargo fill times will kill this game:) RIP SC you now will become a failed Space sim just like ED lol ...start of the end :)

@VonKrieg 10 дней назад

So with the implantation of any direction short burst quantum jumps, do you think Piracy or PVP will suffer? I believe without a dampener piracy will be null.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

I want the shorts jumps back for the QOL aspect, but it's a good question because I'm not sure how they will balance against that as well. It could 100% be problematic from pirate/pvp perspective tho.

@geradov2013apk 10 дней назад

Awesome video. Pirate Gladius on your page. You sir have got a new subscriber lol. And yes. There’s pros & cons with the new flight mode, I was super against it at first. But then I took the time to actually learn it. And get used to it. Honestly. I’ve made my peace with it now. Still needs tweaking but it will get better. I too feel I’m an above average pilot. And yes I’ve played people in MM that make me feel like I have a lot to learn. But it’s a lot of fun. The org I’m in is doing pilot tournaments and it’s a lot of fun. Gets the guys that are shy about dog fighting into it and to learn & have fun. Long post sorry. Great video. Keep up the good work sir.

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

There is no need to apologize for the "long" post at all. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for the sub! I'll try to keep the videos enjoyable.... for the most part!

@FlynnStrider 11 дней назад

This was a great video, and I have to say that I agree with almost everything you said, which feels odd because I don’t usually mesh with pirates lol You did a great job of explaining your point of view, and you didn’t come across as the typical egotistical narcissist “top 1% in pvp” type. Well done

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Glad you enjoyed it! Hope you stick around!

@JR-er4so 7 дней назад

its not hard.................... its boring and feels bad:) slow slog dps run down sigh ab switching modes all the time is annoying!

@ethancampbell2422 10 дней назад

Master Modes (currently) suck because : 1. They're not fully implemented and tuned, but that's something that will only get better with time. 2. They're great, if PvP combat is the only activity, the moment you drop civilian players and ships in the mix with the same constraints, it just fucking sucks all the fun for non combat players. That's a bit harder to fix, but could be solved by having different rules for combat and civilian ships for what they can do in what mode, they just need to get there. 3. They make no physical or technical sense either IRL or in universe as they are, they only exist because CIG is trying to enforce balanced gameplay rather than set up a balanced system and let people find their gameplay. 4. It's contributing to further disadvantage solo players against group players, if that solo player also happens to be a non-combatant, just great /s. My take is that they're slowly forgetting they're building a sandbox universe and instead are building some sort of competitive shooter. Also, the new gimbal situation is fucked up and puts stick players at a disadvantage, especially those with low-to-mid gear. All in all, it's a good idea, poorly and very partially implemented, leading to all the complaints, but that's normal for a game in development and they never said the current situation was the end goal, just the first step toward it.

@brianfury9790 10 дней назад

well its made by noobs for noobs, no sim gets better by slowing it down.

@6Pawel9 6 дней назад

100% this

@tehdudezorz6322 11 дней назад

NOU

@Citizen_Jim 10 дней назад

Nourrrr!

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

Having 2 modes is fine. The flight is super bad. Weird speed caps in space is stupid.

@csdigitaldesign 11 дней назад

MM is fine but needs tweaking. Nothing to do with change. Nothing to do with lack of skill.

@MseeBMe 11 дней назад

So sick of hearing people whinging about MM.

@prophet0393 11 дней назад

ill save you time the whole video is bullshzzz lol rofl not one good point

@Citizen_Jim 11 дней назад

Interactions!

@j.d.4697 9 дней назад

I mean, every MM critic I have actually seen fly on video would just hover around and shoot. No maneuvers, no clue how to fly in combat, maybe the occasional forward thrust into the enemy ship and then the good old "OMG THEY RAMMED ME", but that's about it. So maybe there is something to it. I personally am still not convinced MM is the way to go. I use a lot more boost now which works fine, but it's just weird to get thrown into the canopy each time you switch to SCM mode. I half expect them to add the sound of screeching tires for that.

@Teddy-tx7wb 11 дней назад

Master modes suck, if for no other reason then they are SO ARTIFICIAL!! it is a whole lot of unrealistic, illogical fitting of square pegs into round holes just to make the game easier for pirates. who, with their fleet of "shields up, weapons ready" combat ships, seem to need even more advantages against non-combat ships. so they come up with "shields and weapons can't work at high speeds." when, realistically, you can't have QT speeds without shields because of what a grain of sand would do you your ship if you hit it going that fast. earlier they went to so much trouble to get a somewhat realistic flight model only to come up with all of this artificiality? it's like God heard the prayers of Birds of Prey saying "yes, we can fly very fast, we can even power dive over 200 mph. but it's still too hard to catch mice on the ground. you need to make mice slower, and paint them bright orange. and make them so they can't look up and see us coming." what's next? interplanetary highways like Freelancer had so that pirates don't even have to look for prey?

@Arbyfig 11 дней назад

How is master mode the only thing you see as 'artificial', also I'll just insert Gaben's view on unrealism being a counterpoint to game design (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MGpFEv1-mAo.html), why you are talking about realism in star citizen anyway? what is realistic about star citizen? Star citizen is sold as an immersive experience, which means stuff makes sense in the context of star citizen, not real life. I like star citizen as much as any other backer but calling it realistic is a lie, its at best a stylised sim-cade. We aren't doing prograde and retro grade burns to get into orbit and deorbit, we literally go faster than light by hand waived science, we have shields, which is not even a real thing, we have the aurora, which is basically the honda civic of star citizen being sold with guns on it, where in real life can you buy a honda civic with guns from a dealer? The Space stations and ship for the most part have a magical gravity system rather than a centrifuge to create artificial gravity. We see a the bengal as a carrier have anti capital ship guns, when in history do carriers engage other ships directly by design? the early carriers like Lexington and Saratoga yeah, but they were eventually removed and fitted with more anti air. And the biggest unrealistic part of star citizen that is one of the selling points is dogfighting, in modern day aerial combat, battles are fought with missiles over long distances not point blank gun fights, before anyone talks about Vietnam, look at the gulf war its a more recent conflict and on a large scale.

@Teddy-tx7wb 11 дней назад

@@Arbyfig you have a lot of good points. and I don't disagree. BUT, Master modes takes a halfway decent flight model and Cheeses the Hell out of it just to placate a segment of the community that already has huge advantages. personally I would prefer no speed limits and Flip and Burn to slow down (or huge retro thrusters, same diff) but I think "no shields or weapons during QT just to make it harder to escape, and because we want to make fights less about jousting... except it's still largely jousting" to be absurd. Pirates in their combat ships have magical interdiction fields. EMP pulses, and distortion weapons. and with all that, they still need special game mechanics to get rid of the victim's shields and weapons and speed... in ships that can't hope to match the pirate combat ships in the first place. I suppose next they will hand pirates, on a silver platter, a cargo transporter because transferring cargo by tractor beam takes too long. Now I'd be happy if they came up with a really good flight model that made for good combat, good racing and fun flying in general. but Master Modes is specifically designed to give pirates more advantages at the expense of everyone else.

@latjolajban81 10 дней назад

@@Arbyfig Sure there are stuff that's not "realistic" like a honda civic with guns. However, it can be done. It's not unthinkable to put guns on a honda civic. That doesn't break any laws of physics. It's stupid that racers and tansports have guns on them. But it's not unthinkable and it doesn't break any kind physics. The flight model in SC however is very artifical and has nothing to do with any laws of physics anymore. That's what makes it artificial. Most of us have no problem with made up technologies (like shields) or lore reasons for gameplay (like lore for having no AI in game). That's all fine. But removing laws of physics and making an "airplanes in space" flight model is ridiculous. Especially when CIG sold it as a space sim. We even had simulation for flight back in the day when thrusters and thruster placement mattered.

@Ecator594 11 дней назад

lol Imagine that a pirate likes master modes where his victims are without shields, or countermeasures when he snares them out of quantum. Insert surprise pikachu face here. If you had c2's outrunning your mantis with its 443 m/s top speed advantage and its advantage in acceleration in the last patch before MM your a terrible pilot. MM is nothing but a slowed down slug fest that lowers the actual player skill gap down so casuals can have a better go at combat rather than actually have to learn to fly their ships and get good. Thanks for the laugh mate.