Cheers for the plug mate! And excellent work on the install 👌 Interesting to hear your thoughts and results too! And Sub 7.5kg on 5700-series disc brake bike is freaking brilliant btw 🤘😎
RIDES OF JAPAN IN THE COMMENTS!!!! Dude love your stuff! But glad to hear sub 7.5kg is decent, I was honestly a bit surprised when i got it on the scales. I assumed it would be closer to 8kg's. And no worries on the shout-out, gotta respect the OG's!
Tiagra hydraulic shifters for 10 speed are actually a good budget choice. Update to a nice crank and you are not loosing much performance with 10 speed at all.
I find no performance loss at all with my Tiagra 10 speed bike. I probably use only 3 cogs for 80% of the time spent riding anyway - and they are the same tooth cogs that I have on my 11 speed bike. That extra cog is sometimes the one that I very rarely use or need at all (10sp 12-28 vs 11sp 11-28).
I second this. I put Tiagra 10 speed on my gravel bike in order to upgrade to hydraulic brakes. Really impressive for the price. The rear derailleur can run up to a 36 tooth cassette, or even works with a GRX 11 speed derailleur to go bigger.
@Click Bait I have 4700 groupset, plan to replace crankset with Chinese Hardrock crankset. Luke covered that crankset in one video. Around 100$ (for me) and weight between 105 and Ultegra
Hey Luke, great work as always. I've been on fully hydraulic disks on road & MTB and have tried various mechanical set-ups. The differences you demonstrated between the mechanical and fully hydraulic were massive - circa 30%. That may only have been 3m in your tests, but that easily translates into the difference between having a crash and avoiding one when a car pulls out on you. I ride in mixed suburban conditions and the brakes are my saviours - time after time. IMHO, there's no such thing as too much breaking power - as long as it's easy to modulate. Yes, you have to up your skills to take full benefit of the braking power, but it's so worth it. The extra confidence in the brakes makes you and the bike faster too and the small weight trade-off is completely irrelevant when you consider that the extra performance could save your bacon. Also worth remembering that rider weight makes a massive difference too - it would have been very interesting to see the same tests with a heavier rider - and I suspect the difference in stopping distances would have been even greater. Oh, and we do care.. see you in Oxfordshire!
Yep this is all true. What I would say however, is that if you go over the handlebars, doesnt matter how good the brakes are 🤣. But I totally see your point, hydraulic will def provide shorter stopping distances in emergency braking situations, especially if you have been riding them for a long time and know how to get the best out of them!
@@TraceVelo That such a good point, and such a strong argument for upping the rider skill level. Optimising your position on the bike to allow you to maximise the braking force you can use is an essential skill. You do get used to it, but it takes practice and there will be an error or two along the way. There's a substantial different in the stopping distance between a rider in a "normal" seated position and an arse-out-bike-forwards stance rider, as so much more braking force can be applied without flipping the bike. That'd make a great video (padding recommended!) If we're getting nerdy, it would also be really interesting to see how well the two braking systems resist heat-soak - the sort of conditions you're likely to experience on long fast mountain descents, with extended braking from high speed. Pads can overheat, rotors can glaze and fluids can boil.....Keep up the good work... you're doing an amazing job. There's plenty of great riding in Oxfordshire too - especially the Chilterns on the eastern side.
@@TraceVelo Following on from @Mark Johnson, throwing the bike forward and getting your arse back and down near the rear tyre is a braking skill technique in commonly taught mountain bike fundamental skills classes. It makes a *massive* difference to your effectiveness and to reducing stopping distance. Two contact patches are always going to slow you down much faster than one. To be honest, I'm really surprised it does not seem to be taught to roadies. So, it's very good to see you teaching it in this video.
@@hawkeyelikesbikes Road bike geometry typically has riders so far forward on the bike that it's very difficult if not impossible to get behind the saddle over the back tire. Gravel bikes and touring bikes, sure. Aero road bikes, TT bikes, etc. are typically so far forward that riders can steer with their elbows to get fully aero, and that results in a seriously forward weight balance that makes emergency braking very difficult.
@@TraceVelo But now you can also catapult yourself over the bars while staying on the hoods. I find the ability to get at least 100% braking from every grip position pretty neat, especially in traffic, where I am likely to be on the hoods quite a lot. Also I usually don't really care about the rear brake and fully focus on the front in an emergency, as you said, the rear will lift regardless.
Rides of Japan is honestly one of the coolest cycling channels on RU-vid. The guy is so modest and nice yet his videos are amazing and his gear makes me drool, I‘m glad you enjoy him too However even though you exclusively review garbage I‘ll never buy, your videos have a special place in my heart 😆
I totally buy same garbage as Luke, have my ups and downs. Don't like bike elitism as such but I must admit I watch Rides Of Japan. Awesome content, especially bikepacking and he shows a also dark side of high end parts.
What Luke is too polite to tell you is that what you describe as "garbage I'll never buy", folk that want to have reasonably good gear but do not have the financial means of a doctor, banker, lawyer, coder or trust fund baby (you certainly sound like one!) call them value components which can maximize their bang-for-the-buck. If you don't want to sound like an arrogant prick, next time you should probably refrain from describing the products reviewed in this channel in such an offensive manner. I can buy DuraAce without blinking, but doesn't mean that what Luke uses/reviews is garbage. You mentioned RoJ's modesty. Maybe you should get some for yourself.
@@The_One-Eyed_Undertaker Well I did say I buy that garbage, meaning I'm in same place as Luke. Maybe my comment seems arrogant and not funny. English is not my native language so it's difficult to be nonchalant. My line of thinking was if Luke viewed first "garbage" comment as a joke so my would be the same. No hate here, we are all velocipedist aren't we?
I haven't had a bike in years. And I'm so glad I found this channel because here I just got the confidence and know how to build my first ever carbon bike. And I think I'm going to do this.
Thanks for the videoing! I recently upgraded my cyclocross bike from Cantilever breakes to a hydraulic disc break one. I know a very different start thought but I love it. The break feeling, the stopping power, and the ease to now swap between dirt and road wheels is totally worth it.
Great video! Also, you know I'm not a fan of cable-hydro (TRP was the only one I thought was any good) but dude...I got a new pair the other day... as good as the TRP, but the same price as the ZRACE. ;) Need to find time for a video. I feel they finally cracked it.
Thanks Joe!!!! But now you have piqued my curiosity, really interested to know which ones you are talking about. A have seen a couple of new once crop up on Aliexpress recently... 🤔🤔🤔
I swapped for winter a few years back from my road bike with rim brakes to my mtb on Hydro disks, a car pulled out despite giving every indication they had seen me, as I was using hydraulic disks I managed to stop, same thing the day before, no chance. Now got a Trek Domane with hydraulic disks and stops brilliantly, the old bike is on my turbo trainer.
I tried a fully hydro setup a few weeks ago and I accidentally almost sent myself over the bars. My skills need improvement lol. I'm running juin tech knock offs with sintered pads and while it's little bit harder to squeeze, the only time I almost otb'd was during an actual emergency brake. With zoom dual piston mechanical brakes (db680) I had to squeeze the levers to the bars every time, it took so much effort but I barely slowed down.
@@TraceVelo with mine it has the rubber o-ring that the OG juin techs have, but in the product photos I don't see it. So far it's been pretty good, I've descended down a mountain with it multiple times and I haven't had any brake fade or any leaks. Also the stock pads are in a gold color for some reason lol
Okay last one, I had sticky pistons too but after some cleaning it's now acceptable. I also had the problem of the piston not returning but after I turned the adjust bolt a few times it went away, not sure why but it returns every time now.
Great video as always Luke. But I just want to clarify the sequence on how to install the hydraulic fittings. Its always a good practice to insert them in this pattern nut-olive-barb. Because in my experience if you install the barb first, you cannot insert the nut and olive. Cheers!
Great video 👍 Really hope Sensah will come up with their own full hydraulic system for this market segment. That will be a game changer. The company who delivers first on a cheaper full hydraulic brake system will make so much money and probably spell the end of rim brakes.
It's trickling down, and there are not many large frame manufacturers left making rim brake bikes, they are speccing cable actuated discs one even entry level road bikes in many cases now. I am not 100% certain but I believe Trek and Specialized are phasing out mid-range and entry level rim brake bikes entirely having already ceased production of rim brake versions of their flagship models. The new Shimano groupsets released this year have put no development into the rim brakes. They are effectively the same calipers as the previous iteration.
I don't know if we'll ever see high quality hydraulics or electronics from the Eastern budget market. They produce groupsets for the Chinese commuter customers primarily, and that market values serviceability and reliability over performance. You don't really see Sensah and Microshift coming out with road or down hill oriented components that aren't already great for Chinese commuters.
Hey Luke, and all... A few points/comments/things :- 1. Where in Oxfordshire you relocating to - I'm in Bicester 2. Purchased the siroko jacket yesterday - looks good online... 3. Be interesting to see a comparison of disk Vs rim brakes using your test 4. Like yourself - I've been riding (road) for numerous years and can't recall ever having to do a full brake lock. A mixture of awareness and direction/avoidance has always been my strategy of choice. 5. From my experience applying full lock to brakes (even on a dry, smooth, even, road surface) will probably lead to loss of control - rear wheel skid, bike lift, hitting others in a group - it's not a great solution. Only ever a last resort... 6. (for road riders only) so what are the advantages of disk brakes? Heavier, more costly, trickier to maintain, and no real safety advantage? Uhmmm 7. Just bought some disk brakes for a gravel bike I'm building - courtesy of AliExpress... Tyre clearance and wider rims... 8. Really love the videos Luke - my wife thinks I have a thing for you!! 🤣
Good comparison. The rotors you have on your tests in my experience do not provide as better modulation, regardless of your brake lever pull. I switched to SRAM rotors and noticed immediate improvements. I have the RS505 too, and was not finding those "over-the-handle-bar" experience on heavy braking. I feel the quality of the rotor has a significant influence. Perhaps your next test !
I have used V brakes, cable disc brakes, cable actuated hydro brakes (HY/RD) and those very same full hydro RS505 levers... they are excellent levers and provided amazing braking and shift performance. Honestly their is no comparing the braking and modulation of full hydro disc brakes to any other version. but in level of what is better you go in the order I had above - every step was a bit better. I am on a full GRX810 setup now - and the braking is sublime. But those RS505 levers and brakes are solid workhorses, they should last for years. would 100% recommend.
Coming from a mountain bike, I really can not imagine going to a mechanical break ever again.. I know that you still need grip on the road to use all this breaking power, but I still think that with a little bit of getting used to, you really improve your stopping distance, when going hydraulic. Not to mention, ou still have great modulation and easier pull on the handle..
Also definitely true, especially if you put money into consideration. But just for me personally, I love my hydraulic brakes to much ^^ By the way, how are the brake rotors holding up? Would you recommend these, as they are so cheap and light?
Its a whole different world on skinny tires. On mtb there are also much more cheap hydraulic options. Since shifters and brakes have remained separate.
that's why I always use 140mm on the back, it helps not locking up the rear tyre every time i touch the rear hydraulic brake. Happy to see Roj from Rides of Japan named, yours channels really deserve more attention than what you get
Great video as always. I love the way you always do a good analysis of the products and put a fair few kms throught them too. Not all of us can ride bikes worth $10k plus!!
One thing I've learned about those portable scales: MAKE SURE the actual scale is in line with gravity! If the force of gravity is not colinear with the axis of the piece of metal coming out of the scale then you WILL undervalue the weight. Try it by hand, it's pretty crazy.
Thanks for another great video! One upside for fully hydraulic (depending on the winters where you live of course) they dont freeze in the winter which mechanical can do if some water has made its way in to the braking outer cable!
Nice video, as always. I have a fully hydro set-up on my flat bar commuter bike. When sharing road space with busy traffic at 20mph+ I think it is well worth the cost for the ability to slow down sharpish when a lane changer hasn't seen you. I still run rim brakes on my weekend/country bike, though if it had disk mounting points I would consider the upgrade.
I have used rim brake for almost all of my entire biking journey. But last year, I had work in another city. And that city have a hilly terrain and helluva traffic. Hence i need to get a disc just because the traffic is sketchy and I prefer to have the ability to brake instantly and confidently in emergency. But since covid bike shortage, only available opt is mechanical disc (retrospec with sram groupy, it’s basically a rebranded zrace) I gotta say, personally, moving from rim to mechanical disc takes a short time to adapt. Because basically a rim brake is a disc brake in a 622mm (700c) instead of 160mm. And both are pulled with a sling. Even the modulation is kinda similar on the end pull of the brake lever. 4 mo’s ago I was in search for a hydro set cus the shortage is coming to end. Had a quick 2 week test run from my friend bike with ultegra full hydro on. And i almost crashed 4 times just because the difference is so damn noticeable. Yes the power is there, but the modulation man…… I’m just not that confident in it. Hence i just went back to my mechanical disc set. So in conclusion, if you came from a rim set. Either just stick with the rim, or if you really need that disc, get that mechanical set. The braking power is significantly increased from a rim set, but the modulation is almost similar. A safer option. And me personally, breaking my mechanical braking muscle memory to adapt on full hydro is so damn hard But if you never had a rim set, then just get that full hydro. Since you don’t have that mechanical braking muscle memory, i think you’ll better off with that full disc set.
Great video again, thanks. I would suggest that another couple of factors to consider are ease of maintenance and riding conditions. I used 105 hydro discs throughout a nasty north of England winter, riding 2-3 times per week. They suffered and needed a lot of looking after. Despite careful cleaning and servicing, pistons stuck and ruined a couple of rides. Also getting them centered after swapping wheels (gravel to road and back) was a constant pain. Also the 105 have no actuation adjustment which I found frustrating. I now have TRP Spyres for the road and feel they are more than good enough for the road (steep, crappy Peak District hills) and sooooo much easier to look after, eg independent pad adjustment and easy cable adjustment. However for off-road riding the incredible power and modulation of hydros come into their own and outweigh the servicing/set-up concerns. Essentially, for me it's a cost - benefit analysis. Cheers.
I've gone from having next to no brakes to new hydraulic disks. Needless to say i nearly went for an unplanned trip the first time riding my new bike. What a difference. It was like trying to stop a battle ship, my last bike was so heavy. This bike is 33% lightsr agd disks, bliss. That said, i honestly think I prefer 105 rim brakes. Which i have spare. Unfortunately not an option on the new carbon folks.
Great video Luke, really insightful! I also had to run Cable-Disc for a while because my shifters were busted and I had a similar experience to yours, although I decided that I could not live without full Hydros. I’m very eager to see a fully hydro groupset by Sensah or Ltwoo in the near future
I have several bikes with multiple option on board now: Shimano full hydro, TRP HYRD and Juin Tech as well as the SRAM HRD. Well, what I can say is, for day to day usage, something like commuter bike, which might not have that much care, a full hydro setup is better, as it is sealed. Cable actuated one is good, but you will need more maintenance/more attention on it. the cable compression rate and quality is crucial to make it work. And yes the top end raw power is better on full hydro, but it is just applicable for emergency brakes, which is not common in daily rides. My personal thought is that if one has sufficient skill and time to fiddle around the setup, mechanical hydro is more fun to setup and can kill more free time (Which i enjoy). And full hydro is for those who like to set it up and forget. Good vid！
Progressive braking is what you learn on motorcycles. That meanS adding more and more pressure till you stop rather than full on grab, to prevent locking. It works and it's pretty much what you described. It's something you have to practice though if you want to do it well and have never done it before. I have fully hydro on a fairly basic Merida carbon bike. It was about £1200 new which is half the cost of a Trek Domane competitor.
You should test the wet performance. I bike commuted 12,000 miles on mechanical disc and switched to hydro last year. So much better especially in the rain. I had all the issues you had. Rusted cable. Frozen brake cable due to frozen water in the cable housing and frequent brake pad replacement. All of these issues have been solved with the hydraulic setup. Great videos! 👍
Another excellent video I don't have a bike that runs disc brakes but it's always interesting to see how the installation them. Enjoy your move and hope to see another part of England in the videos.
Nice job on the video. I just got a Poseidon gravel bike and initially I wanted to get hydraulic brakes but after seeing how stupidly expensive they are, I just don't think it's worth putting them on this bike. It comes with Tektro brakes so I think I will at least upgrade to compressionless housing and possibly throw some Juin Tech F1s on it and that will probably be good for this bike.
The total superiority of hydraulic actuation over cable has been very obvious to me ever since I installed hydraulic rim brakes on my MTB some 25 years ago.
Well having no padding on the saddle is actually comfortable because of the padding of the bib, take it from me i live in the philippines and ride with roads that will make your arms sore
I weight 120Kg, ride mountainbikes on very steep Tracks and use only one finger to brake to to keep control. Even with 235mm disks and metallic Pads i could use more braking power. If i let a unexperienced rider use my bike i always demand that they train using my brakes first. So i guess "too much" braking power is very subjective. Thanks for your content. I cant even tell why im watching it because i dont ride street bikes, but i really like your videos!
I got a set of RS505's with calipers on Merlin for $150 in early 2020. Couldn't believe it. Currently running them on my single speed Trek Checkpoint. It was cheaper to buy 11 speed shifters and brakes than it was to get the only single speed specific set from TRP. I agree that they're probably overkill for road bikes unless you do a lot of technical descending, but the moment you go off road at all, hydro disc is untouchable.
We do care, Luke. Good luck in Oxford. Appreciate your distinctive and original approach. Don’t put yourself down with well-meaning but excessive modesty - you’ve a great deal to offer so don’t suggest otherwise in case someone believes you!.
I didn’t need convincing that rim is better than disc… but this video really highlighted many of the issues I have with hydro disc. I will be making a video about this as your experience is great evidence for my arguments. It’s shocking that they are putting noobs on hydro disc. It’s just dangerous.
In your previous video at the end, using metallic hybrid pads, you got to 11 and change meters. So 10 and change vs eleven and change, that's getting really really close!
Yeah definitely. Tbh good braking is all about technique, especially emergency braking like this. In my opinion, mechanical brakes are just a bit easier to control for the amateur in this particular scenario. Plus decent bake pads make a world of difference!
Just found your channel. Very informative. Told myself if you said “…and Bob’s your uncle”, I’d subscribe. You didn’t let me down. 😂 Great vid, subscribed.
Any scuff or damage at the end of a hydraulic line will prevent the olive from sealing when crushed and likely cause a leak. Sometimes you can route longer line than needed and cut the end off for a better seal.
Hi, shimano have changed the position of the fluid reservoir on the modern shifters, be it 4720 tiagra 7020 105 8020 ultegra , duraace and all models of GRX it's now at the highest point on the hoods where you screw the funnel which makes bleeding easier, also as already stated you need to adopt a range of positions and methods to get all the air bubbles out, especially the rear brake, bike positioned as upright as possible, flick or tap the hydraulic pipes, inject the fluid then suck the fluid, inject and suck, inject and suck, until all bubbles disappear, always making sure the reservoir cup is never empty, then give the bike a try , then just attached the cup reservoir with a small amount of fluid and pump a few times to release the final few trapped bubbles, once you have done a few it becomes fairly routine, if you come from the world of mtb where hydraulic has been king for years it's no big thing. Hydraulic brakes make a huge difference on alpine descents just the stopping power into hairpin bends is massive , choice of rotors will make a difference especially on long alpine descents, shimano ice technology rotors will be better than £7.99 chinese rotors but at 4 x(min) + the cost, but for commuting/everyday riding in the UK cheap rotors will be fine. To sum up, if you are used to hydraulic (from mtb) then you will never accept anything else
Had them since 2018 and had to replace one lever and caliper. Worked out OK lever failed first, got both as a set, then a caliper failed and was able to use spare I had. Still think they are great
What I like is you compared weight to a cable disk, not seen that done, usually by disk bashers comparing to rim brakes (I am a rim brake fan 😀 just not a disk basher) I also like how you explained the trouble you had using all the hydro power and the effect it had, most of us are normal riders not pros, you look like an experienced rider but still had trouble...... You didn't have to bail with cable disks did you😏. So another great video Luke.
I love my hydro brakes, it was a shock when moving from rims but I'll never go back. They need less upkeep than my rims did, but it does take a bit longer when you do maintenance on them. Overall though, I think they're definitely worth it. Good luck with your move 👍
Have you seen the Giant Conduct hydraulic brake system? it uses regular cable lever, which pulls a master cylinder and rest of system is hydraulics. the benefit is that you don't need to disconnect the brake system even if you need to change lever/handlebar. but the drawback is that you will need to use specific stem for mounting the master cylinder. it retails for less than 200 USD, so it might be a manageable alternative for hydraulic brake upgrade.
@@TraceVelo lol... looking forward to seeing your review on the Conduct hydraulic brake! I have a Giant Defy, which came with Condcut system. no complains except the free stroke is longer than I like and there is no official way to adjust it. there is a video on adjusting free stroke, but it's the "unofficial" method, involving squeezing lever without rotor or block in the caliper.
what you could have done is put the saddle down which would have allowed you shift your weight back. Same issue I had when testing brake pads but its a lot easier to do on a mountain bike than a road bike.
I think budget is my primary concern with hydraulic brakes. As an e-bike rider (due to long, hilly commutes), I'm not too concerned with the bike flipping over because e-bikes are heavy. Another concerned loosely related to budget is that I wouldn't want to work on hydraulic brakes myself, so I'd have to pay a mechanic to do it. But I'm now convinced that hydraulic brakes would be much appreciated on some of the nicer $4000+ e-bikes out there.
Try out the full 105 R7000 set since you clearly have a tendency towards them😁, then make a real comparison between the 105 and all these other Chinese sets that you extensively tested and reviewed in all these great videos (AWESOME channel, btw, THANK YOU!). But make sure you PROPERLY set up the 105, it's a bit fiddly at first, ride it for at least 1000 miles, make sure you "learn" it and adapted to it. Until you feel like every bit of every single pedal stroke gets transmitted to the ground, in all combinations of cranks and cassette cogs, you haven't yet properly set up the 105. A properly set up 105 shifts, without exception, in 1/2 (half) of a pedal stroke. Mine still misses some downshifts in the rear, but the cassette is a Microshift 11 speed, will get back with an update once I change the cassette to an original if anyone wants to know. Thank you so much for all the good information!
Super interesting Luke .. Just got a new bike with SRAM mechanic and as am not a experienced cyclist I cannot wait to take it out on the road for the first time 👏 Merry Xmas and keep the content coming please 🎅🏻
Fully hydraulic feels so good. I used them for over 10 years on a super nice bike I had until it got stolen (moved to the Netherlands--go figure). Haven't used them since but I did recently buy an electric "bakfiets" which is a cargo bike with a "basket" on the front with benches for children. The thing is obviously heavy as hell and is a cheaper (2200 euros) Chinese rebrand so the components are crap, including the mechanical disc brakes, which is super dangerous on a heavy bike designed for hauling kids! I bought a pair of HB-100 (semi-hydraulic) brakes as drop-in replacement and they're way better than stock, but still not nearly as good as full hydraulic. My guess is that unless you're doing hardcore downhill mountain biking or have a heavy arse bike like my bakfiets, you won't truly see the massive difference between full hydraulic and mechanical actuation. Since I'm still cheap, I might try the Juin tech if/when my HB-100s fail.
You could try a 140mm rotor for your back brake to stop that early locking up. You can brake with your back brake a millisecond befor you brake with the front brake to avoid the lifting of the back wheel. You also can change it in the STIs that the back brake starts a bit earlier
Luke love your channel. I have done so many of the things you have done and tried through the years, looking for the best possible performance vs value I can find. Even this video, I have an older Carbon gravel bike with a 105 10 speed set up I built. Started with with entry level Shimano mechanical calipers, which basically didn't stop at all!, tried the Juin Tech calipers but the rear one would not clear my frame, settled on TRPs for a few seasons which worked OK.. Mad force needed for a down hill bomb though. Then in early 2020 Shimano RS-405s showed up on Ebay for $148/112GBP. Full kit calipers and all. Had to sell the flat mounts for post mount calipers AND these shifters have an 11speed throw so had to pick up an 11 speed rear mech. (added cost unfortunately) but still too good a deal to pass up. As you said the braking power with full hydraulic cannot be beat. Keep up the good work!
Maybe a 140mm rotor on the rear would help out with the rear brake locking up so quickly...either that or chubb up a bit...I struggle to get my rear brake to lock if i'm in the saddle ;-)
Another quality production Luke.!! Why is the road bike side of things soooo pricey??. For my MTB, picked up a great set of shimano hydraulics with rotors for £55… same thing for road would cost £300-400…
Road disc brakes have only been around for a few years so the technology is still yet to trickle down. They are primarily used on performance bikes too, where as entry level MTB groupsets are also used on urban and hybrid bikes for the gear range, and are much more accessible. It makes sense as MTB braking requirements mean hydraulic discs were a huge advantage even on bikes that nowadays seem inadequate and almost too difficult to ride due to the advancements in geometry and suspension tech. Whereas on the road, the advantages were not so obvious. Also, the first iteration of road disc was so poor as the bikes that were fitted were not properly designed to cope with the braking forces so there was a lot of lateral flex in the forks and stays under braking, especially in carbon models.
I mean it’s absolutely ripe for someone to come along and develop a cost effective road hydraulic brake set…it can’t be long till something really good comes out of China..
@@grantnyenes3742 I don't deny what you are saying, as the industry is moving towards disc full stop, a cheaper fully hydraulic groupset will appear on the market soon. But developmentally, it is still years behind in comparison to mountain bikes as the adaptations needed to be made for the technology to work have only just been perfected in the last few years. Especially in regards to frame design and layout.
Hi Luke, another great video, was waiting eagerly for it. I have the same handlebar from China based on your previous review. I had a hell of a job getting gear cables and hydro hoses through and had to file the holes a bit bigger and smoother to avoid cuts etc. One thing i didnt do was remove the levers apart from clamps on same 105 levers so had a real swine of a job connecting the hydro hoses with levers in situ! Lol. I learned a lot from you there. I too found bleeding wasnt easy but i finally got it done. Want extra braking power for a heavier rider?? I fitted 180mm front rotors and 160mm rears now, sorted!
Hydros definitely feel better in terms of modulation, I think that is pretty undeniable. But just like Luke, I think that the up in costs and weight is not worth it. At least not for the kind of riding I do on my gravel bike. Compressionless housing is a must, though. Otherwise mechanical disc brakes feel absolutely terrible. Now if I was descending crazy steep hills all the time, I could see myself switch to hydros. Maybe a few years from now, the used parts market will be flooded with road bike hydro stuff. Until then TRP Spyres are good enough for me.
Great channel, I recently found it. One thing I'd add relating to your concerns about hyrdo disc power. Rider weight. As a 235lb (106kg) rider, the extra braking power gives me brakes that probably perform similar to your experiences with mechanical disc. I recently had my only rim brake bike totalled in a wreck, and I have to say the replacement bike with ultegra disc brakes and 160mm rotors stops almost as well as my mountain bikes. I don't miss squishy brake levers.
I’ve got 105 group set with semi hydro mechanical brakes and 105 group set with fully Hydro brakes. It’s night and day the Hydros brake better and the feel is better. However I do prefer the 105 mechanical shifters to hold over the hydros.
Excellent video, well put together and informative. I especially like how you've highlighted the need to practice braking. I did a similar type of braking practice on my motorcycle. I practiced and practiced so much on my braking that I went through two rear tires until I could stop from 60 Km to zero in one car length without skidding a tire. The goal was to be in first gear and set down the left foot when completely stopped. The front tire was fine but the back one suffered a lot until I learned how to apply maximum braking but not slide it. It takes a HUGE amount of practice to get really proficient at braking. I'm now beginning to practice with my new cargo bicycle. Unfortunately it has mechanical brakes so I will be upgrading to either hybrid brakes or full hydraulic ones.
Uhhh your rear brake lever is on the right 🤯 mad man 🙃 Modulation explanation is great; hydraulic has no stretch like a cable (can't compress a liquid) so it's very linear to lever application 👌
I have the same shifters and the only issue with ergonomics is when you are going down horrendous trails with poor bike handling skills, the bleed port does not feel great on the palm. for all intended use they are wonderful, but quite ugly
After being on the discs for a while your ability to use the brakes has probably improved. To do a fair test you should have done a test with the mechanical again immediately prior to the changeover. Based on your 2 videos I'd go with the hybrid every time over the full hydraulic every time.
Only a matter of time now before we see Shimano putting out a hydro setup with ABS so you can smash that brake without lockup. Another British RU-vidr did a DIY ABS setup and got it sort of working!
The takehome is essentially: 200g more for more braking power than you actually need? Unless you want to be able to lock up the rear wheel easily. Because even if you have the power to lock up the front wheel, you never want to in practical conditions. if you cant slow down fast enough despite locking up your rear wheel, more braking power isn't the answer, you want more traction which means bigger Tyres/wheels.
200g? lol I'm selling my hydro set up and bought a mix of trp mechanical with sram red shifters for the same money. Saving more than 500g. Its for a bike that I may do long distance rides with so the easier ability to service on the road is also an added plus.
So in the emergency braking scenario, fully hydros can be a little difficult to manage on a road bike with skinny tyres. I run 25's at about 75psi. But riding out and about, fully hydros do feel pretty great, no denying that
The point is moreso that it improves braking feel, they're not a necessity, just makes riding (for me) more enjoyable. In my case they're worth the weight and cost penalty.
@@TraceVelo The silky smooth modulation is notable. I toured this summer on rival hydro levers and brakes after getting a bike for a juicy price with them installed. That said I realised I could sell the set up and get Red levers +TRP mech brakes when shopping around. It's about 500g of savings. I did the swap a few months ago ensuring they were installed well and I'm very happy with the feel. I do a little strength training on the side and I wonder if good grip strength gives you more control with the mechs as grip strength is more of an issue there. Another thing that wasn't mentioned is that hydro are self adjusting. All that said I quite enjoy tinkering/fine tuning which can ensure the mechanicals are performing splendidly. My brother in law needed to bleed his rather tasty ultegra after they had become squidgy after only 5 months. A somewhat more involved process that shortening the cable length.
@@thomasullmann7447 I think you nailed it. To get the best out of mechanical, you do need to have a play around with them thats for sure. I tended to take a few mins to adjust mine after every 10 rides or so to keep them 100%
Being on a mechanical disk setup for a while now, and delaying the move to full hydros due to cost, this was a very anticipated content ! So... full hydros DO make a big difference in braking. I am curious about the pads though, as juin tech stock pads are not mentioned to be very good, and shimano stock pads are usually good. I have changed the pads on my TRP Spyres to Swissstop ones, and it was night and day on both braking and modulation. As the pads had a lot more friction, the lever force needed was less, so making it a bit more of a straight line in a graph like yours. Is there any way you can test the juin tech's with shimano pads ? ( I know they are compatible with a shimano model). That would take pad compound out of the equation as well, and the only difference would be hydro vs cable. (Probably that is not possible now, as you won't want to remove the full-hydro setup from the bike, but would make a point though :) )
I agree that the stock resin pads are not the best with the Juin Tech. I actually upgraded the pads on my JuinTech's to semi metallic, and it make pretty big difference. Not sure the shimano pads will work with JuinTech calipers, but if you are in the UK, there is a seller called Noah and Theo on ebay that do some killer semi-metallic pads for a really decent price, so i would be inclined to give them a go if you havent already...
@@TraceVelo There are shimano pads compatible, just not the same as in the RS505 ones, I think the older SLX fit there :) Thanks for the tip, but I am in Portugal. I have a set of Juins coming in from Aliexpress and plan to use them with "disco brakes" ceramic pads. Check them out, as they are much nicer than semi-metalic for performance and are completely silent !
@@PauloSerra So i've given ceramics a go in the past, but found they were not very good when cold. I found the initial bite to be a bit lacking, but once they warmed up, they were pretty good. I also found they they tended to really concentrate the heat into the rotor, and not dissipate the heat very well. Might be worth another go though...
@@TraceVelo Interesting opinion. I made my choice based on this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q65sbSmHZds.html Maybe not all ceramic are made equal ? In any case, my Juins are still at the post office, so I am unable to verify. I am curious about one thing, with the semi-metalic pads you mention, what would be the improvement on the emergency brake test ? 1 meter ? more ? That would greatly help narrow the gap to the full hydros.
I scrolled through as many comments as I could but didn't find any pointing out your error on the brake pads. J02a/J03a pads are for post mount calipers. What you have are flat mount, so they're L02a/L03a.
I thought roads in Canada were sh$t, but you islanders are not too far behind us :) Other than that - great video Luke. I'm also a listener of the 53/39 podcast and to my surprise, one of the best episodes was an interview with Trace Velo Luke.
Great video as usual. Rides of Japan's method is great but generally I use a combination of all the methods until I get a solid result. Next time try this: put the funnel on the control with mineral oil inside, connect the syringe on the caliper also with some oil inside and push and pull until you don't see bubbles anymore. If you still feel a spongy control, Rides of Japan method. Sometimes multiple times
Thanks for the vid and tests. I didn't realize you road-guys have to pay so much for a full hydraulic set-up btw (mountainbiker here). I just got a complete set of Shimano MT200 in for less than 70 euro incl. shipping. Very curious to experience the difference from my current mechanical set up once I get them installed. Cheers mate.
Good description of the difference in performance between hydro and mechanical discs. On the road, especially in traffic I much prefer the hydro power and that quick power is nice on an MTB as well. However, on a gravel bike on a very very long fast descent I have had hydros over heat, begin boiling their fluid and become almost useless, not something that would happen on a mechanical set up. Bigger better rotors, finned pads etc can prevent this in most cases but it remains a possibility if you have a multiple mile descent.
Nice film... my suggestion: to stop the back wheel blocking that quickly and lifting off the ground, put a smaller disk... like 140 mm. And better quality one as well... disks are probably the cheapest part of the braking assemble. Look for inspiration in the MBT camp! I have an older frame that I'd like to work on ... it's a Giant frame with Post-Mount... I'm curious what's the best affordable hydro-mechanical (cable hydro) braking calipers that I could install on it?
I had Tiagra 4700 hydro groupset and eventually it pissed me off. Firstly the shifters are massive, they dont feel good in my hands at all and they also look terrible. Second I love to swap in and out different parts and setups and I felt boxed in with the groupset. 3rd the calipers would leak after i bled them, I found the whole thing very stressful, they just arent for me at all. The truth is you only fully emergency brake when something jumps out in front of you and shits you up. Most humans struggle to not instinctively grab two big handfuls of brake lever and it sounds like you could easily injure yourself by accident that way. Im perfectly happy with a bit less braking power if it means very simple (and dry) maintenance and replacement. Ideally Ill get some Paul Klampers at some point. Would love if you reviewed them but they cost over 400 quid for a pair in the UK. Cheers.
@@TraceVelo Not worth it. Paul is just some boutique brand. They are good, but hydraulic will trump it. Tiagra pretty much offers identical performance to Rs505 too...
