Messerschmitt BF 109 Supercharger Drive System 

Hi Greg, As to why the germans mounted their Superchargers on the side, there are actually some pretty interesting reasons for why they did that. I will try to explain them in this comment, but please excuse my limited english. The first one is design tradition from the early days of sportier cars. At that time the chargers did not look like the discs we know today but rather lengthy like a gearbox, they were mounted to the chin and increased the length of the engine quite a bit, so in order to save space they rotated it 90 degrees to the vertical. They also had more positive experience transmitting the moment to the charger with that way of mounting it, so they kept it as the chargers evolved. The second is that it is more efficient than mounting it parallel behind the engine, since the Air only has to make a 90 degree turn in the charger and then can be fed straight to the engine, while in the other mount it would have to make a 180 degree turn into the charger and then again a 90 degree turn into the engine. As a 3rd reason, it allowed to increase the disc diameter without increasing the frontal area of the engine, tho you would need quite a large supercharger to make use of that. It might be easier to access to, but I don't know how often you could make use of that.

Finally, an aviation history channel that isn't dumb opinions with cutesy, low energy animated pictures. Thanks based Greg!

The more I learn about it, the more I realize that the following statement is true: at the time that it entered service, the Bf-109E was the most technologically advanced fighter anywhere in the world. Variable stage supercharging. Fuel injection for extended negative Gs, and automatic mixture control. An automatic variable pitch propellor. Wing tip slats to retain aileron control at high angles of attack. And from the E-4 variant till the final K-4, devastating thin walled mine shells that gave the HE rounds from its 20mm cannons an ability to punch far above its caliber. I can only hope that someone can recover the documents and blueprints needed to finally rebuild and repair the DB 600 series engines.

Wow, over 100 views already! That's pretty good for such an obscure topic. Thanks guys! I'll get another WW2 fighter video up soon.

As a retired manufacturing engineer and machinist when I look at the design on that engine and supercharger system it may have been the gear Design that influenced the 90 degree drive. bevel gears are much stronger and quieter and more compact than spur gears allowing for a greater ratio change without a loss of strength that whole engine design was light years ahead of anything the allies had and the fuel injection system is essentially what we are using in our automobiles today

history and engineering. two of my favourite subjects

Consider the Fw-190's highly advanced engine control system. It featured an analog computer, with a single lever for all engine parameters and functions. There was no direct pilot control of engine RPM, manifold pressure boost, or mixture. Compare this with the very complicated engine controls of late WWII American and Allied aircraft.

Interesting ! I read from some magazines that the F-6F Hellcat also had a hydromatic coupling for the Double Wasps compressor. In regards to the DB601 and 605, the engine manual for the DB601 states explicitly that the first gear coupling was fix, while the second was variable, probably due to excessive heat transfer to the oil, so the superior effect was only there above critical altitude of the first gear (around 2500 m), but then because of this the compressor revs up with altitude giving the DB601 superior performance between 2500 - crit. Alt of second gear which was 4500 m for the DB601, 5300 m for the DB605 A (AS, D had then higher crit. alt becuase of bigger compressor of DB603), whereas for instance the BMW801 of the Fw190 had a rather large 'hole' above 1500 m (crit. Alt of first gear) and the changeover to second gear (around 3000 m), in changing before that altitude the additional boost would be offset by the power consumption of the Compressor , due to the Regulator limiting max. pressure, thus all fix coupled compressors have this 'hole' where power drops with airdensity, the worse the higher revved and the overboost of the second or n-th gear's revs are, in the case of the Fw190 this loss of power one had for almost 1500 m. The worst of them all was the Merlin single gear (Spit Mk. I - V), it ran at very high RPM producing vast overboost at sealevel which had to be regulated down (with loss of power of course). Only later in the war special inlet installations took off some of that load by reducing air density (actuated by the regulator, the DB605 D used that).

As an admirer of German engine technology, this video is very interesting.

90 degree to crank thought. This would eliminate the gyroscopic load created when the airplane pitches up or down. Car too. This way the compressor rotor clearance can be maintained more easily. Less load on the bearings.

The reason I would set a supercharger at 90 degrees to the crank would be to facilitate maintenance, since it becomes a very self contained module that can be removed from the engine/vehicle without having to move anything else first. With a rear mounted supercharger you'd have to pull the engine or rip open the body of the vehicle more than one would like in order to even touch the thing.

But the sound that supercharger made was unlike anything else. Even the amazing Merlin engines fade by comparison. Pure screaming terror!

Really appreciate these videos.. thanks for making them

You've answered a question that I've had for years! Thanks!

Thank you for explaining the technical features of this system. Great content, subbed!

Very nice presentation. You get right to the interesting points, and explain them very well. Keep it up!

Hi Greg. I was amazed by the detailed explanation of the system. I flew on that plane (I mean the last edition of almost 2000HP) and I know something about mechanics. Once upon a time at the Academy in Berlin, a living mechanic from the time of the Second World War explained to me how time was spent on possible and frequent repairs and that everything should be done as soon as possible. For this reason, some conceptual solutions have been adapted to quick repairs. Although that doesn't seem quite logical to me. I remember very well the engine variant and only one perhaps insignificant detail. The mechanic said something that was a problem of converting the engine from B4 fuel to C3. The delayed detonation of the fuel during ignition allegedly caused large oscillations in the operation of the filling system and enormous overheating of the exhaust. There was even mention of a lack of some materials like nickel and that this limited modernization. It was wartime and Germany has no deposits of these ores. Thank you for a rarely seen detailed and professional explanation ....I remembered something else, maybe not important. The first variant of the engine had an indicator of the temperature of the hydraulic oil and its pressure. The one I was flying on didn’t have a pressure gauge. An additional pressure gauge of the charging system was located at that location. All of today’s BF109s that can fly have a lot of modifications. The problem is the hydraulic oil of that time, which is exclusively an oil derivative. I know for sure that ATF is used today and that the pump is electric with variable pressure. I don’t really remember everything because it’s been over twenty years.

awesome stuff, thanks so much for posting this stuff.

Another wonderful video from Greg thank you for spreading the knowledge of the Messerschmitt BF 109

Yo Greg, you are a breath of fresh air when it comes to airplane videos, thanks.

I’m just addicted to your channel, nice work.

fantastic stuff, thanks Greg

Thank you Greg I hope you are well

This is great stuff, subbed

Your videos are incredibly interesting and informing. They are easily understandable even for someone without much knowledge of engines such as me

Very interesting. Thanks for uploading such a rarely mentioned topic. Thumbs up! :)

Great work dude. And the first american who can pronounce Messerschmitt the right way, thumbs up

Cool explanation, thank you.

...and this one had met hitting the subscribe button. Great job and thanks for sharing your knowledge!

So looks like the designers wanted an airplane that would work well at all altitudes. Great job!

Thanks for sharing this info. Subbed.

Well done explanation.

Well done!

ty greg

And here it is. Thank you :)

The way supercharger placed is the reason why bf109 has magnificent high altitude performance

Quite a technological explanation.

Wow, fascinating. Thanks very much for this. I VERY much appreciate that you seem to explain your videos for 'lay people (like me)'. If you got as technical as I am quite sure you could - I would probably be lost.

Thank you

Really entertaining Greg! IMHO should have your own show on the Discovery Channel!

Good video

That was excellent I’ve often wondered how the German engines supercharger worked. I’ve seen many static displays of the 109 and noticed the supercharger intake. You have to marvel at the the technology of that era, even before the war, even by today’s standards looking at an aircraft fighter engine is amazing, the Germans had fuel injection that had an effect in performance over the carburetor. As an example the Merlin powered Spitfire had a problem when a negative attitude was exerted on the aircraft that caused the engine to lose fuel, briefly, that was corrected by a simple ingenious check ball of sorts, but the German pilots took advantage of that scenario because a puff of smoke from the exhaust signaled this effect and that allowed just enough time to kill its adversary.

Amazing video. If there can be some 3D animation, it would be great. But waaaay too much work ! Thank you for all your videos, can't wait for more ! Cheers from France.

very Kool stuff thanks

Having worked with the Germans for several years in the 80’s and 90’s I can attest to the fact there is a definite reason for everything they do in engineering. Excellent channel content. Nice to see authentic historical topics thoughtfully explained. Keep up the good work. Daimler Benz documents call the BF 109 supercharger coupling a “barometrically controlled hydraulic clutch which operated independent of pilot inputs.”

excellent video, please keep it up. subbed of course

I used to be a real speed-vs-height-curve junkie when I was a kid; I suspect the 109's curve would be most interesting to analyse.

I still consider the 109 to be one of the best if not the best fighter aircraft of all time, it was a very effective and efficient design, a true allrounder, good turn rate great agility, quite fast and good armament combined with great dive and climbing abilities. No wonder it is the aircraft with the most confirmed kills of all time and flown exclusively by the ace of aces ,erich hartmann!

The charger is at 90° to the crankshaft because of the cannon. This is thanks to a demand by the RVM from the 1930s. The Jumo 210, predecessor to the Jumo 213 used in the 190D, also was built according to the same demands, hence also the inverted cylinders for increased forward visibility. BTW, the FW 190D-12 also has a 20mm "Motorkanone" firing through the prop hub. You can also see this at the F4a prototype for the DB6XX family which was built with a "Schusskanal", or "projectile conduit". In fact RLM document L.A. 1432/33 from February 1933 specifies an optional canon firing through the propeller axis as a demand for what would become the 109.

Great video 👍 'and alot of very good intelligent replies in comments to your questions..)

Thanks!

Re sidewinder supercharger this was on the Kurfürst site. Per Flight magazine April 16, 1942 re MB 601N “Since clear fore and aft space is required for he mounting of a cannon at the rear of the crankcase the supercharger had to be mounted with its impeller axes (sic) transverse to the centerline of the engine to place the bulk of its volute casing to one side, and not in the position as in the Merlin XX, the Allison and other “in line” engines.

This is amazing tech information. I knew some of the stuff from your Mustang vs. ME109 engine video regarding the Mustang engine, but there was a lot I didn't know. You have yourself a subscriber.

Yes, so great to find a channel that is a-political, and truly informative

I think i found the answer for the 90 degree supercharger.I have spoken to a German Engineer that worked previously in F1. He said that on cars it was done because of packaging issues. Engine was already high there was no room to put the roots blowers on top and there were not much space in front either so they put it 90 degrees to the crank to get a better packaging especially on the Auto Union cars that had 45 degree bank angle. And for aircraft he said it might be due to the already big centrifugal superchager increasing frontal area and drag if it was placed normally. My take on this is that they had gotten used to this method. They have been putting their superchargers 90 degrees to the crankshaft ever since 1921 , when the time for making the forced induction aircraft engines came around it was just common practice and they kept the same layout. French also did something similar , when they started using german Panther tanks after WW2 they got used to the "compressed air bore evacuation" system and kept using the same system ever since which is also present on their latest leclerc tank. Meanwhile pretty much every other nation uses physical bore evacuators placed on the barrel. The reason why French still use this system is because they had gotten used to it during their time with panthers and didnt feel the need to change. so something similar might have happened with the germans with their 90 degree superchargers. Also here is the German Ex F1 Engineers channel ru-vid.comabout

Another info i dont know if its in comments: fottinger mechanical-hydraulic coupling is used in medium sized diesel locomotives (before diesel-electric drives) in 20s and 30s, it was common there, and uses diesel engine crank to move fottinger power-hydraulics which move trough pressure lines individual hydraulic motors on wheeled axis. its great for power-torque conversion, and efficiency is also great. Greetings from railways worker.

The more I learn about the tech behind WWII aircraft the more unique and cool the German stuff seems lol They really had some advanced technology for their time

Greg, nice video, one i only just found. The Technical content is simple enough to understand for the lay person but sufficiently technical enough to interest the more technically biased of us. As an engineering educator this type of content is great for me to give to junior engineers to keep them interested.

in regards to the supercharger, mabey since there was an airscoop on the side of the cowling, this more efficient accumulation of air helped augment routing to the engine manifold as a whole, a subtle or slight advantage mabey, very informative.

Do not have any sources,but I am thinking about period supercharger automobile designs I have seen illustrations of. The Bentley Speed Six had the crankshaft driven blower just forward of the engine casting,down low. The camshaft drive was called a skew gear by the British,aka bevel gear,I think at the rear of the engine. Alfa Romeo had the blowers in the centre. Also bevel geared,and camshaft as well. I am trying to remember what Mercedes Benz did with their SSK and the racing SSKL,but will look later if I can find my reference. Point is,once an engineering concept is settled on,tends to be followed for some time,and drive by bevel gears was a very common approach,despite some very real issues with torque loads and axial movement under delta of load. Possibly that German placement was used in the twenties when exploring aircraft supercharging was first successfully done. Once settled on,the guys coming out of the engineering schools had it explained to them "this is what we do". And it was easier to go along with existing approach unless good reasons for a plan B showed up. I really like these technical articles you bring out. Not aware of anyone else who does. Cheers.

If you wanna know more about supercharger and turbocharger systems made by Junkers in WW2 take a look at Dr. Anselm Franz. In 1951 he was hired to set up a new turbine division at Lycoming's otherwise unused plant in Stratford. After Operation Paperclip Anselm Franz retired from Lycoming in 1968, having risen to Vice President. He died in 1994.

Very interesting

Very interesting.

Damn, what an awesome channel! I have ALWAYS wondered about ME109 supercharger and how it worked compared to allied planes. What is throttling the supercharger? No need, you explained that as well. Great information.

In a conversation once overheard the 90 degree was for manufacturing/repair purposes, it simply bolted on or unbolted from the side.

This is great stuff . I was always disappointed in shows such as wing's of the luftwaffe for not getting into the technical side.

Maintenance access and cooling.. are the only reasons I can think of …. In the 3 years I was in an F-4 squadron .. we had a few hydraulic pump and generator failures but zero engine failures … one broken engine mount only …. Those j79 ‘s are tough ….!

Late Allison V-1710 engines had an auxiliary supercharger driven "through a variable speed hydraulic coupling; the speed was determined by intake pressure". The engines were used almost exclusively in the P-63 King Cobra. That plane was designed to allow the greater length of this engine. Sounds like Allison was following the pattern of the DB60x drive system, it just was in a two stage system and too bulky to be a straight replacement in most fighters. A later development was used in the XP-51J with an intercooler and performance was 1700 hp @ 20,700 ft.

Putting the Turbocharger at right angles instead of lateral means that the air would be compressed firstly in the engine cowling making it easy for the turbo to breathe in more easily, secondly, laterally mounted avoids ducting from the front to the rear or where ever the turbo is situated, the P47 had those huge ducts to get air to the chargers thus having to build the huge plane that is was, if the turbo was facing towards the rear of the plane, at 350/400 MPH, there would be a vacuum created by the air rushing past and the turbo would be ineffective and just deadweight

Ok, subbed.

With a centrifugal blower you reduce the discharge losses since the outlet is inline with the engine. This can be significant at high discharge velocities.

Hi Greg, after googling around on the supercharger being mounted 90° off to the motor ... err... sorry, engine, I couldn't find any clues on it in german language. But the RAM effect is mentioned here and there as being important, so probably your guess is right. The fluid coupling described was filled by a regulator pump - this procedere reminds me a lot of hydraulic retarders used on heavy eqipment. If you can't find these strange german Umlauts with dots on your keyboard, you can add an "e" to the vocal - like Föttinger becomes Foettinger. Then it's SUPER correct. Subtext translated him to "Herman Fought Injure". Not bad, RU-vid, not bad... Your videos are just great, Greg. I subbed

The Merlin used on even the earliest Spitfires and Hurricanes had 2-speed superchargers. The Allison V-12s were supposed to have turbochargers as standard, but turbocharging proved difficult to implement in practice, so Allison were forced to omit these from the P39 & P40 single engined fighters and fit single speed superchargers, which is all they had available.

As a note, the supercharger drive varies its ratio based on the pressure of atmospheric air from the static port, not a line from manifold pressure - I do not know why they chose to set it up this way.

The Allison V1710E27 used a turbosupercharger . It never went into production because the temperatures were too high on the turbo blades . It was designed differently then the turbosupercharged V1710 used in the P-38 .

Maybe the 90degree supercharger drive puts its angular momentum vector in a direction that improves the aircraft's directional response time.

Sweet K-4 pic;)

Another good video. I have always assumed that the side-mounted superchargers is to facilitate maintenance, particularly with a relatively complex hydraulic drive. With superchargers mounted at the back of the engine you basically have to pull the whole engine to mess about with the supercharger, which is probably fine if its reliable and driven by simple gears and clutches. I would imagine the variable speed unit needed a bit more tweaking. It will also shorten the engine, although I am not sure that's a major concern.

The 90 degree position to the direction of flight is advantageous because it is the best way to lubricate the bearings in the turbocharger. This is not so relevant for smaller turbochargers, but with increasing turbine weight and higher G load in the longitudinal axis, this factor becomes more and more important.

I'd love for you to talk about later luftwaffe planes such as the bf109 G and K's and the Fw190's. Would be interesting

Thank you for you info. After building models of the 109 I surmised that the supercharger was was controlled by hydraulics, but was not sure. As for the 90° mounting, thinking perhaps has something to do with gyroscopic effects. Nothing to back that up, just a thought, thank you.

Very much enjoying your channel - even if much of it is beyond my mental envelope. Regarding the placement of the supercharger, until sound evidence settles the question, I wonder if your comment - that the SSK’s supercharger was also at 90 degrees- is giving the correlation argument a little too much weight. Cars are different from aeroplanes, so there may have been different reasons for that angle of placement, thereby, giving the appearance of a causative reason. Just a thought. Keep up the output, your channel is a breath of fresh air!

The P-63 had a hydraulic variable speed booster supercharger feeding the engine mounted supercharger (through the carburetor). It didn't have an intercooler but used water injection for war emergency power. I saw test data where top speed was comparable to the P-51 (440 mph), although almost all literature puts top speed at less than 410 mph.

About the 90 degree placement on the engine... without it being on the front or back on the crank shaft it makes it easier to remove and or replace for repairs. I'd assume the multiple gear systems would make this contained part more prone to wear and tear than other parts. Maybe, I'm a motor engine troglidyte in these matters so I could be far from correct here.

The angular momentum vector of the supercharger goes as (moment of inertia of the impeller) × (angular velocity)squared. If I knew both quantities I could calculate the length of that vector. Knowing the distance between that vector and the 109's center of mass I could calculate the effect on yaw rate.

I saw a video that claimed the 90 degree turn vs the 180 degree tuen was the reason and I have read that it was nore conpact and left room for a second supercharger.

My guess is that the supercharger is side mounted purely to keep the length of the engine down, look at how they had to lengthen the Spitfire when the two stage supercharger arrived on the Merlin, Greg states that the 109 had the advantage of being small. I note that the hydraulic coupling is given great credit in this video and the gear driven conventional arrangement that needs intake throttling below critical altitude is rubbished. But my take on this is that the hydraulic coupling power losses which even exist even when fully ''driven'' compared to conventional gear driven which has no losses detract from any benefit. By how much I do not know, but it must be a big something. I say that because no other aero engine adopted that arrangement, when doing so would have been a fairly trivial task at the design stage.

Great info. Can you also do French and Italian aircraft of WW2. Keep up the good work.

awesome good information. like from me.

Thanks for pronouncing it a Messerschmitt, and not Meschersmitt like all the other anglo related channels... BUT, it´s a BF109, not ME109. And thanks again for the in deep report. Didn´t know about those details yet.

Oh my lord everything makes sense now

I commented before you said it had a hydraulic coupling 😳🔫 that would be a great reason to have the impeller rotating in the same axis as the plane is traveling. If the impeller was perpendicular to the axis of travel the gyroscopic forces would always try to slow it down. And because planes travel so fast it would thrust load the impeller. 🤣it sounded good🤣🤣🔫 great vid thank you

Love the videos. Manifold pressure is important to an engines compression ratio I assume?

Got here for the first time by the youtube suggestions - have no idea, why the charger is placed that way, but please keep doing movies - these are interestic even for such ignorant as I am - Thank yoU!

What do you mean obviously the Merc didn't have a cannon!?

Great data to round out ones repertoire on WW2 "fun" facts. Bring this up in a conversation makes one appear smart, ha ha ha!

Super late to comment, but as an Army officer and a military buff let me posture that I believe the Germans placed the SC on the side for ease of maintenance.

I believe a inverted v-12 was tried in unlimited hydroplaning during the 1960's, the Coral Reef I believe.

The ProCharger I-1 has a CVT driven impeller that can do something similar to this, but that was released in 2013 about 70 years after the 109.

The Mercedes 230SSK, 300SSKL and the 540K all had this kompressor type, 1920s-30s