I like the 67 best for these sounds anyway, i have one myself, the Chinese reissue sounds great to, not very much difference between those in these clips.
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Thanks for taking the time to do this, George. Much appreciated! IMO, the Heritage G12M came the closest to replicating the sound of this particular vintage Greenback (although the Scumback also was very, very, very close). I could see people preferring the vintage Greenback, Heritage G12M and Scumback, depending on their subjective tastes. I'm also very surprised how good the Chinese Greenback sounded. The Chinese reissue gives you a lot of bang for your buck.
The reissue sound very much like the original 67 to my ears so much so that I would buy the reissue before spending vast amounts of money on original 67’s, great video by the way.
I own the ASW crossroads and they sound amazing. Nothing like what they sound in these clips. Also own the Scumbacks and Celestions HeritageG12 m and the ASW are the fattest and richest by far in the cab I tested. Many thanks Metropoulos Amplification for posting the clip.
Great video George. Always come back to this one. The Celestion 25 watt reissues are now being assembled in the UK again as they expanded their facility to accommodate the manufacturing of the Creambacks M’s, their most popular speaker. Good to see them back in the UK.
Yes, I don´t like that we export our jobs to China either, but on the other hand I don´t think Brits assemble different or better than Chinese. Another thing would be if the cones would be produced in UK, because the Chinese some times have a looser relationsship to matches the materials exactly. But the Chinese re-issues sound good.
Hey George..great comparison test! I just bought a reissue checker front and it's supposed to have reissue G12M 25w.At first I thought I got ripped off by Musicians friend but mine sound just like the ones you tested.None of them sound like I remember from years back.The test with the LP and the ASW I thought sounded very close to the old days.Thanks again for taking the time to do this,very cool indeed!
Very good and revealing demo. Makes alot clearer some differences. As I'm looking for a speaker for my current Marshall build (plexi/jcm800 switchable) good demo;s like this shine a good light on speaker differences and highlights. Thanks George.
Great job George. To my ears the '67s were The King. Glorious musical tone. Was VERY surprised at the G12M Reissues and the Heritage. Especially the reissues ! Once those are well broken in they would be very close. Scumback for all their hype didn't grab me at all, would take the reissues anyday. ASW also didn't compare favorably to the '67 or reissues IMHO. That '67 Cab / Speakers is killer. Those Orig speakers are stunning.
Thanks for the helpful demo. What a relief to see sane microphone placement. Much more realistic representation of the way a rig actually sounds. Not a bad sounding speaker in the bunch, though I prefer the Celestions especially the 67. That's a killer sounding amp, by the by.
If you listen on headphones you can hear the positioning of the mic change from one speaker to the next. It's not a huge difference, but there are phase errors in a few of the recordings, caused by the mic's rotational position, which was not constant.
Sounds like one of the original speakers in the cabinet is dead. Note the sound panning a bit to the left when the cab is loaded with them. Another test out here ("ASW Crossroads/True Replica vs 1968 Marshall straight cab") made with the same cab as far as I can see, also sounds like there's something wrong. And in combination, they suggest that it's the top right speaker that's dead. Right? Never the less an awesome test. The best shootout of these speakers out there. Thanks!!
as someone who has a 20watt heritage (not a 67) and have had greenbacks for a long time... I like them both very well. I feel if you really want to play clean more (very clean) - I would steer towards the 25watt greenbacks... the heritage 20s have a little hair on the edges - and I feel that come across in the tracks with the Nash perhaps. The 67 was a nice in between to my ears... maybe a little more mellow. great video and this does confirm my experience and take on at least the 20 and 25watters. Thanks for posting!
Great comparison, and very flattering to the celestion reissues, too ;) I think the heritage sounds closest to the original '67s, or rather - it seems like it will sound very, VERY close once it's a bit more broken in. and the modern production G12M is like a slightly more modern 'beefed up' sounding greenback, slightly more low punch and slightly more aggressive highs but still recognisable as a classic "greenback" voice. Arguably, an improvement over the originals, for certain applications.
This is really really good video. GOOD FREAKIN JOB. You should def do this for more amps and speakers. so educational. Love the Scumback best for my taste and was amazed how the reissue kept up. All are very good at getting marshall tone. THANK you pleease do a vox one hahaha
Now that's how you do a fair comparison! There are no bad sounding speakers here but my favorites are the original G12M20, followedb the reissue G12M25 and the Heritage G12M20. Those three are so tonally similar that I'm not confident I could tell them apart without a hint.
The Heritage G12M and greenback reissues were fresh, right out of the box. We ran the amp at full volume for 20 minutes each time we swapped speakers, just to get them warmed up. They definitely will have changed after more playing time.
I found the scumback to be the closest and the heritage to be next but is a bit brighter then both. The scumback was slightly brighter than the 67 and the heritage even brighter than the scumback. I know from experimenting with speakers myself that I usually liked the smoother top from the vintage speakers so the scumback would be the closest here. The midrange is hard to match as the original 67 is very open sounding from years of age and use. Maybe a x pattern of the heritage and scumbacks would sing nicely.
It's surprising that they did as well as they did then. As you know after that spider and surrounds become more malleable the speaker's FR will change. Thanks for the great comparison!
I really enjoyed the comparison format and presentation of this video! Subjective thoughts: 1) Not surprising the 67 sounded best. 2) The 25watt reissues were above expectation 3) My disappointment was immeasurable with the scumback :(
I recently got a Heritage G12H30 @ 8 Ohms with the 55 c/s bass cone and just wow. It makes all my amps sound wonderful. Huge huge ballsy midrange but super tight bottom end with an alnico-blue like sparkle. Anyone wondering what the best single upgrade to their tone is, lemme tell you: its one of these speakers. Hands down the best rock n roll speaker I have ever played through. Its better than blackbacks, blues, creams and, yes, imho, it beats pulsonics too. Made in England and under $150. Just buy one (or 4) and thank me later!
I have a lot of these, come in the anniversary 💯 cabs Marshall I blew one my recone guy replaced the voice coil with one of his nomex paper voice coils and saved the cone, his coil sounded MUCH better than the factory Marshall voice coil had him do the rest of my speakers
I had one of your 50 watt kits with MM transformers in a newer 1987 case with a 1960 cab with the regular reissue Greenbacks. i couldn't stand it the same room with it with the volume on 3.5-4. It was painfully loud, yet glorious. It loved all guitars.the only other amp that I had that would do that was the handwired Fender '57 tweed Twin. I had a 52 Tele RI with Fralin Blues Specials and the RS guts and when paired with your amp, it may have been the best all around rig that I ever owned!!!!!!
I know this is old, but they all sound very good. Any greenback would do the reissue has a foot in the past and a foot in a more modern era depending on how you play it. The greenback is pure rock and Roll and love all of them !!!
the 67 g12m 20 is and has always been my fav. It was nice to see this be true at the hands of someone else. Do not rule out the reissue 20 watt heritage as they sound better over time. Know that they come out of the box pretty stiff. I now have 4 of them and they continue to get better.
I honestly like the 1967 Greenbacks best followed by the Heritage ones. They sound tough yet smooth, liquid and feathery with nothing harsh or ugly about it. Chords have clarity and lead tones are great too. It's kind of like butter vs. different types of margarine! IMHO the Nash Strat 2nd last clip of the video is unrivalled by the other speakers. The other speakers are brighter and some sound harsh to my ears. 1967 Greenbacks have full frequency range in a great balance. To get the sound I like out of each of the other speaker types the EQ would have to be adjusted specifically for each IMHO. This comparison was the most scientific and unflawed one possible. Thank you Mr. Metropoulos.
Forgot to mention that what I call the brighter, harsher speakers are probably more efficient. This excellent video gives a great opportunity for people to find the G12-M type speaker that best suites their personal taste.
If "BEST" is judged by which sounded closest to the '67 G12M, then the best is the Scumback to my ears. It sounded like the '67 fit right between the Heritage and Scumback with a slight nod to the Scumback while the Heritage maybe had a touch too much bite. Actually the Heritage sounds like what the '67 probably sounded like new and the Scumback sounds more like the '67 now after years of use. The Reissue that every seems to be calling "best" sounds nothing like the '67. It has more treble response. If that's what you like then maybe it's the best for you, but if we're judging these against the '67, the Reissue wasn't even close.
The reissue also has a prominent mid hump in it's response that none of the others have to the same degree. It's not bad, but not like the original nor any of the others.
Excellent job guys! My fav; 1967, but the G12m reissue is surprisingly similar! They are staying in my Vox. I wish Celestions G12h anni was an equal sensitivity as the G12m it would be the mix I would use in my 2x12.
I've done this up close with the same above speakers except the ASW. Nothing beats the original m speaker after that the Heritage is the best. The Heritage is warmer and smoother than the chinese M or Scumback. Also the Heritage while branded 20wats is a 25 wat speaker.
I agree- they're all nice but the '67 has that perfect warmth and smoothness that none of the others have. I have the Heritages in my main cab, and sometimes they have a certain harshness that I have to deal with.
yeah but nah yeh nah they're just different, the Chinese is brighter and better for vh and the others lean more to acdc for example, like the asw and then it's a whole worm can on which amp and axe
The OG sounds slightly louder in the critical mid-range if you switch quickly between the clips using timestamps. It still sounds the best, but there's that to consider.
Agree with many others here that the reissue sounds so close to the original (awesome) that I'd not hesitate choosing them over searching out, and mostly, PAYING for an original. BTW, greetings from Bay City where we (Stone Soup) jammed with Reverend at a bunch of gigs in Midland Street's Cruisers/Back Dore ...back when there was an actual music 'scene' hahaha..
Me too, even over this '67 by a hair. There was much more of a difference in Segeborn's comparison (although that was a 1970 and higher wattage speaker, I think).
The Heritage 20 out of them all including the vintage, that said 25 watt reissue sounds o.k. Overall (not including the ASW or the 25 watt reissue) they sound just about the same and would be hard pressed to either pick a favorite or guess which one it was if they were right in front of my face. The 25 watt reissue sounds looser with a bit more grit and a slightly wider frequency range. It seems like somewhere between teh 20 and the 25 could be the perfect speaker if some tweaks were done to either modify a 20 kit to sound more like a 25 or a 25 kit to sound more like a 20. I'm kinda thinking that if you had some doping added to a 20 watt Heritage, that might do the trick.
Lets say that a perfect solution would be 2x20 C Heritage with 2x25 C Reissue in that box - no point in dreaming about '67 in the previous mix due to lack of availability...
Thanks for this. There is so much stuff flying around in so many forums about this Greenback versus that one. These are close enough that most non-guitarists wouldn't know or care - the differences are VERY subtle. That said, to my ears the 67 wins. After that, the Heritage, Crossroads, and Scumback differences are negligible. The tone is there on the Chinese RI but it is microscopically more harsh.
After a couple hundred hours on it I don't think a guitarist wouldn't care. It's funny how the human ear can create an illusion that one is bad and the other is good, but confined with the one that didn't sound good eventually you will dial it in to your liking.. It has to sound pretty damn scratchy and bright or tubby for me not to like a speaker. The Austin didn't sound anything special to my ears.
Scumback had the closest tone to the original 67, but lacking in body. Wondering if it’s the mic placement in some of the clips. In other clubs, it sounds almost dead on.
Just on the surface, if you listen for smooth mids, the Heritage is closest. After further breaking in, it may sound closer yet. Got to say, I like the sound of the reissues; but it may be a bit bright and forward in a mix.
I agree with some posts that the Greenback reissue stands pretty tall in these examples! I'm finding the Heritage Greenie doesn't have quite the bottom end of the original but it's not far off. I own a couple of Greenback reissues and I'm about to buy a 4X12 with four Heritage Greenbacks. I think I'm making a good move.
Hi George. To me the nicest sounding speaker was 1967 and the 2nd probably will be the 25 watts reissue. I know that people think eh reissue probably bad but for the money it is very good speaker compared to Heritage that is very bright and for some like me harsh. I had ASW Crossroad speakers and did not like them much. I did like the Scumback M75 20watts. The speakers I am pointing out are the most comparable to your 1967's but your speakers in the cab you have are most musical speakers that guitar player possibly wants. I had a lot of great speakers in the past. We're forgetting that is not only the sound but the touch and feel maybe more important, no feel-no music will come out from under your fingers. Most people who commented those clips probably did not hear your gear in person and I did and had the most fun visiting. The 1967 4x12 cab that you have is probably the best speaker cab I had pleasure to hear in the last three decades. The LP by Gil Yaron, Ohhhhhh!!! and the Nash Strat that I have played with Lollar blonds Ooooooo!!! Well as you know I do like the Celestion Lynchback in 1x12 cab it is nice speaker too. I have some amps that I need to have work on so I might want to visit you again this spring. Great video again! Hope you're doing great. Thanks, Mike
What extreme lengths to go to for the sake of art! Thank god for people mad enough to test stuff at this length. They all sound the same to an old keyboard player like me. But then we get precious about the V21s in the Leslies.
Celestion G12 C 16 ohm speakers, 53H1777 cones same as celestion blue alnico, nomex paper voice coil greenback frame in open back cabs these sound pretty good! Maybe test against what you got?
Great video, but I do have one question- what was the age of the reissue G12M and the Heritage G12M? You said Celestion sent speakers, so were these brand spanking new? Because they won't sound the same after 20-50 hours of playing time. It would be cool to go into depth and do this test with speakers that are all as old as the model they represent could be, at least as old as the 67 I should say. So you'd have the 67 of course, the a 90's reissue (i think that's when they started making those) and then whenever they started the Heritage, find the oldest one of those you could. It would be cool to see if the paper mellows and ages as well on the other models as it does on the pulsonics. I have 2 72 pre rolas with pulsonics in an Avatar trad cab and it's the sickness.
The reason why this shootout is somewhat irreverent is because some speakers could sound 'better' depending on what mic is being used, not to even mention the type of amp. All these things factor into what something is going to sound like. Interesting demo though..
