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More Bad Arguments Against Transubstantiation 

midairfortress
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Norman Geisler and Ralph MacKenzie, in their book Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences, argue that the Mass shows absolutely no evidence of being a miracle, and in fact, that the Catholic argument supporting transubstantiation could also be used to support belief in Santa Claus and gremlins.
As I explain in this video, Geisler demonstrates the weakness of his own objections to transubstantiation by his better arguments in support of miracles in general.
Geisler, N. L., & MacKenzie, R. E. (1995). Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: agreements and differences. Baker Books.
Geisler, N. L. (1992). Miracles and the modern mind: a defense of biblical miracles. Baker Book House.
catholicscientists.org/articl...
www.newadvent.org/summa/4075.htm
William A. Jurgens, Faith of the Early Fathers
Brant Pitre, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist
Roman Catechism (Catechism of the Council of Trent)
Catechism of the Catholic Church

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22 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 217   
@truthnotlies
@truthnotlies 5 дней назад
I want to thank you for your videos. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. My husband and I left just as i turned 30. We had little children and were immediately shunned by all the people we ever knew, including family. But the more we read the Bible and ventured out of your comfort zones, the more we knew Jesus was NOT an angel. We landed in a non-denominational church where we have made beautiful friends, so kind and loving. However a year after being at the church, we hadn't stopped on our searching. I know it might be said by Protestants, at least i have heard it said, that what you really just need is a relationship with Jesus and it's simple. But I was asking, How did we get the canon? Why don't we baptize infants? What does baptism even mean? If it is just a symbol does one even have to do it? What about penal substitution? Does that divide the Trinity? Everyone keeps shying away from my questions. The more I asked, it seemed the more platitudes I was getting. I was referred to one book on the canon, The Canon Revisited by Michael Kruger, but it was wholly bad in argumentation. I pointed it out and I got more platitudes. On baptism I have been told there is no need to be picky, if you want to baotize babies fine, but probably don't. None of these answers suit me. I am in pursuit of truth and the questions need answers.... i just watched your video on Mary. Interestingly, not long ago, I sat down and asked myself, Ok, why DO Catholics esteem Mary the way they do? Like what is this Hail Mary stuff? I opened my Bible to Luke. And I read the angel's salutation of her and what Elizabeth said. And suddenly I realized that something was indeed here... I flipped to Genesis and read that first prophesy. There was the Woman. Clearly Mary. I went to Revelation and found her again. Then I realized these repeated "Mary is not central, it is not a big deal" lines were wrong. I had been hearing them and saying them my whole life. And I was wrong about her just as I was about Jesus, the Son of God and God the Son! I am still wondering what will happen with my family. Our friends are staunchly against Catholicism. It may be a hard journey. God bless you and your video work.
@jeffscully1347
@jeffscully1347 5 дней назад
Keep searching. And I. The end you will find the Truth. And the Truth will set you free. The Truth is, Jesus established the Catholic Church. He gave His Church a visible leader, a hierarchy, structure, and His authority. No other denomination, church, sect, or cult has ANY AUTHORITY from Jesus. Not one.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 5 дней назад
What a joy to hear someone not wanting to just hear or repeat mantras but instead desire to strive to dig deeper and find the answers. You have really thought through and asked great questions to relevant topics. I too had to do the same when I converted. Reading the Early Church Fathers really blew me away. If you want any book suggestions, I’d be happy to help.
@mre1991
@mre1991 4 дня назад
I have a very similar story. I was just confirmed into the Catholic Church this April. I'll be praying for you, keep searching!
@truthnotlies
@truthnotlies 4 дня назад
@@NuLeif please share, yes!
@truthnotlies
@truthnotlies 4 дня назад
@@mre1991 thank you!
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 3 дня назад
Love all the great quotes, especially in their context. Great job!
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 4 дня назад
Very good. Always worth pointing out that you do not get the benefit of the Sacrifice unless You eat it!
@Mark3ABE
@Mark3ABE 3 дня назад
Essentially, this is the case. Consider, however, the Japanese Church. All Priests were expelled and, for over a hundred years, the Catechists said Mass, with everyone making a spiritual communion. The Church survived - in a case of necessity (such as the pandemic) an act of spiritual communion is sufficient.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 5 дней назад
⭐ CHRISTIANS! ⭐ Please consider reporting the malignant trolls who infest every Catholic video. They demean and criticize RU-vid content creators and add nothing to the conversation with their insults and accusations. Then, please pray for their troubled souls.
@JasonN-
@JasonN- 4 дня назад
While I agree with you… 1. Their comments help the algorithm to show a lot more engagement on videos. 2. Their arguments are not convincing. 3. They end up creating new profiles and come right back at it. Tony (everyone’s favorite SDA who only knows 3 verses of the Bible) is notorious for this. I’ve been seeing that name for years. It’s to the point where people comment “waiting on Tony” when Catholic videos are posted.
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 4 дня назад
​@JasonN- Tony turns every comment section into The Tony & JW Show.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
@@JasonN- Sadly, RU-vid allows insults and blasphemy as it means $$$. Whores, I tell you.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
@@fantasia55 He is channeling David Koresh.
@JasonN-
@JasonN- 4 дня назад
@@fantasia55facts
@rjsledz
@rjsledz 4 дня назад
Wonderful
@Jesus_loves_you2004
@Jesus_loves_you2004 4 дня назад
Commenting for the sake of spreading this video to more people ❤️
@Jesus_loves_you2004
@Jesus_loves_you2004 4 дня назад
Very nice
@Jesus_loves_you2004
@Jesus_loves_you2004 4 дня назад
Oh, frick yeah dude 😎
@suzannelangdon
@suzannelangdon 4 дня назад
It's so obvious that The Holy Eucharist is The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ that those who deny it have to be blinded by the demonic. Let us pray that God Reaches them because they are very dear to Our Lord 🙏 God bless you and this channel 🙏
@_ready__
@_ready__ 3 дня назад
Obvious?
@suzannelangdon
@suzannelangdon 3 дня назад
@@_ready__ yes obvious, God Is Not a God of confusion.
@_ready__
@_ready__ 3 дня назад
@@suzannelangdon Jesus is a cracker?
@geoffjs
@geoffjs День назад
@@_ready__Obvious to those who believe which brings understanding!
@_ready__
@_ready__ День назад
@@geoffjs obvious to those that understand the law/the Bible/and Grace. May God provide us all greater understanding
@Tradition75christian
@Tradition75christian 4 дня назад
Great video
@vinciblegaming6817
@vinciblegaming6817 4 дня назад
I’d add the Levitical consumption of the sacrifices as biblical witness, too… specifically Leviticus 6:18
@Terry19330
@Terry19330 4 дня назад
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned”
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
Was that ALL he said in three years? "Take, eat. This is My Body. Take, all of you and drink. This is My Blood of the Covenant. My Flesh is real food and my Blood real drink. Unless you eat My flesh and drink My Blood, you have NO LIFE IN YOU" - Jesus Christ. Take short cuts at your own risk.
@Terry19330
@Terry19330 4 дня назад
@@HAL9000-su1mz I agree🩵 for some reason I thought you were the troll🙃
@JWellsUp
@JWellsUp 4 дня назад
Appearances? Then perhaps their belief that the Bible is the living word of God is merely symbolic since the Bible doesn’t have flesh nor a heart beat or breathes yet they still believe that the Bible is alive.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 3 дня назад
We place the scriptures in the highest of reverence, but they are NOT God. There is idolatry occurring amongst "Bibleists" these days.
@johnwest545
@johnwest545 2 дня назад
The gobbledegook is strong with this one.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 6 часов назад
Did you watch the video or just post a gobbledegook comment?
@JonathanRedden-wh6un
@JonathanRedden-wh6un 4 дня назад
The idea of substance and accidents is an Aristotelian view of reality for which there is no biblical or experimental evidence.
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 4 дня назад
The Bible was created by bishops who believed in transubstantiation.
@Mark3ABE
@Mark3ABE 3 дня назад
In this you are perfectly correct. The principles of Greek Scholastic Philosophy were only rediscovered in the Western Church after about a thousand years. Before that, the Western Church adopted exactly the same approach as the Eastern Church, of course, since the Church was united until 1054. That is to say, the real presence in the Eucharist was a Divine Mystery which could not be explained by mere human science or philosophy. So, it is not possible to say that the theory of transubstantiation falls within the definition of a teaching of the Catholic Church, that is to say, “what has always, everywhere and by everyone been believed.” Even the Council of Trent is cautious - it states that the doctrine of transubstantiation is an adequate way of explaining the mystery of the Eucharist. It does not, of course, go so far as to say that this theory can be found in the Sacred Scriptures, nor in the Tradition of the Church. It simply says that the theory is not inconsistent with the mystery of the Eucharist. Essentially, the theory of transubstantiation states that the “accidents” do not change following consecration, so that the supposed “Eucharistic Miracles” which assert that the accidents have changed are clearly denied by the teaching of the Council of Trent. It is important to appreciate in the interests of Christian unity that not all non Catholic Churches deny the doctrine of the real presence. Article 28 of the Thirty-nine Articles of the Church of England states that holy communion is not simply a remembrance of the Last Supper, or a “love feast” as the non conformists assert, but that it is a real sharing in the body and blood of Christ. The theory of transubstantiation is rejected simply on the basis that it is not to be found anywhere in the Sacred Scriptures. Clearly, the Church of England does also believe that the accidents do not change, but it does not express what it believes in that way, but simply says that the real presence is as stated in the Sacred Scriptures and that no further theory or explanation is necessary.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 3 дня назад
Why do you demand biblical? That itself is UN-BIBLICAL. Explain.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 3 дня назад
@@Mark3ABE Your source material is?
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 3 дня назад
@@Mark3ABE The doctrine of transubstantiation is an attempt to explain what Christians have believed from the beginning, that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
@JWellsUp
@JWellsUp 4 дня назад
If you believe that the Bible is the Living Word of God then you believe the words of Jesus in St John 6 are living and even more so when he said that he is the living bread. Living in St John 6 for Protestants means symbolism but when referencing the Bible as the living word of God,living means alive.
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
@WayneDrake-uk1gg 4 дня назад
A person's entire Christian Theology tends to be tied up in how he understands the Eucharist. Take, for example, a Protestant who believes he can be once and for all justified regardless of what he does the rest of his life just by a single "altar call" or "Sinner's Prayer". I can pretty much guarantee you he's only going to view the Supper as symbolic. Ie, The way he sees things, nothing inherent in him necessarily changes when God declares him Justified, therefore nothing changes in the bread when God's words "This is my body" are spoken
@_ready__
@_ready__ 4 дня назад
No such thing in the Bible as an altar call or saying a sinners prayer to receive eternal life. How do you attain salvation?
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
@WayneDrake-uk1gg 4 дня назад
@@_ready__ attaining union with Christ is how it's done
@_ready__
@_ready__ 4 дня назад
@@WayneDrake-uk1gg thanks for the reply. How is that done? Thank you.
@WayneDrake-uk1gg
@WayneDrake-uk1gg 4 дня назад
@@_ready__ confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe he is the risen savior. Everything else is politics. My particular party says that you can grow in union with Christ in your walk of faith by receiving the sacraments and living a life of repentance, hope, and love
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
Rejecting His presence in the Eucharist, they tend to relegate Christ to the distant past. They pay lip service.
@Mark3ABE
@Mark3ABE 4 дня назад
The main difficulty in using the doctrine of transubstantiation as an explanation for the real presence is that it can only be understood properly by someone who has a thorough knowledge of the Greek Scholastic Philosophy on which it is based. The Eastern Orthodox Churches believe fully in the real presence, but do not choose to apply the reasoning of Greek Scholastic Philosophy in an endeavour to find a human means of explaining what they consider to be a mystery beyond merely human explanation. Before St. Thomas Aquinas developed his explanation, the Church fully believed in the real presence. Even the Council of Trent is cautious - it does not go as far as to state that the only human explanation for the mystery of the real presence is to be found in Greek Scholastic Philosophy. It states that the theory of transubstantiation (and it is only a theory, based on human wisdom, not Divine revelation) adequately explains the real presence. Trent did not teach that there could be no other way of applying human wisdom in an attempt to explain what is, in truth, a divine mystery, without human explanation. The Catechism of the Council of Trent instructs Pastors not to become involved with discussion or debate with their flock - they are to continue to teach, as the Church has always taught, that the real presence is a mystery without human explanation. However, the theory of transubstantiation, as adopted by the Church, does negate all supposed “Eucharistic Miracles” which are based on the “accidents” changing. The doctrine of transubstantiation states that the “accidents” do not change - that is to say, human science could never discern any alteration in the physical, chemical, molecular, or sub molecular, characteristics of the bread or wine. Any suggestion that the “accidents” do change is a negation of the teaching of the Council of Trent. Are these supposed “Eucharistic Miracles” genuine? Possibly - however, if they are genuine miracles (rather than pious frauds or a deceit of the Enemy) then they might, I suppose, be God’s way of making it clear that transubstantiation is not a reliable theory. Clearly, if the theory states that the “accidents” do not change, but, contrary to the theory, they do, then the theory is not consistent or reliable. The Church managed without the theory of transubstantiation for a thousand years, relying simply on the simple teaching of the real presence found in the clear words of Our Lord himself - far more reliable than a mere human theory, based on a pagan school of philosophy.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 4 дня назад
Which is a bit odd... Given that the Greek philosophical tradition comes from Greece.... Where the Orthodox branch comes from.
@_ROMANS_116
@_ROMANS_116 4 дня назад
In other words - it’s clearly PAGAN
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 4 дня назад
@@_ROMANS_116Have you watched all three of his videos, read the Early Church Fathers or the Councils? It’s clearly not pagan.
@Mark3ABE
@Mark3ABE 4 дня назад
@@BensWorkshop The Eastern Orthodox did not place any great reliance upon Greek Scholastic philosophy, since it was a pagan philosophy. The distinction between “substance” and “accidents” is not something mirrored in the wisdom found in the Sacred Scriptures. The Church of England, in Article 28 of the Thirty-nine Articles, rejects transubstantiation not because it was considered right or wrong, but simply because it is not found in the Sacred Scriptures. Article 28 confirms a belief in the real presence and denies the non conformist teaching that holy communion is no more than a remembrance of the Last Supper or a “love feast”. The Church of England and the Eastern Orthodox consider that the real presence is a mystery which cannot be explained by human science or reason.
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 4 дня назад
@@Mark3ABE Thing is, as long as you actually believe the Eucharist (bread and wine) contains the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, it does not matter how you came by that belief. Transubstantiation is meant to be a helpful explanation.
@jeromepopiel388
@jeromepopiel388 4 дня назад
Miracles are the norm in the Bible . Jesus said if you don't believe my words then believe for the miracles sake. Jesus didn't do stealth miracles that couldn't be clearly seen . The water became real wine, not water that was claimed to be wine if you have faith.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
If you had as much faith as you do obstinance, you would make great progress in the spiritual life. As it is, you kick against the goads.
@jeromepopiel388
@jeromepopiel388 3 дня назад
@@HAL9000-su1mz do you understand what "faith" is?
@jeromepopiel388
@jeromepopiel388 4 дня назад
Midair offered the argument that the divinity of Jesus was veiled by His flesh and shows us his flesh in the sacrament (24 - 26min.) Let me comment that even though men could not recognize the divinity in Jesus, the demons did and always called Jesus "Son of God" . Virtually no one else did. So now think with me for a minute....If Jesus is fully present in the Catholic Eucharist then even if we don't perceive it, the demons surely do. So logically there should be demons manifesting at nearly every Mass. Do you follow?
@vinciblegaming6817
@vinciblegaming6817 4 дня назад
No. I don’t. I was with you through the demons perceive the Eucharist. You lose me on the perceiving-manifesting cause-effect. You need more to demonstrate that connection.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
Does not matter what you think or everyone else on earth thinks. What matters - if you care - is revealed truth. You are taking short cuts. Good luck.
@NuLeif
@NuLeif 4 дня назад
Interesting question but not a cause-effect. Ask an exorcist about this (sacramental bells), it’s actually quite interesting.
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
@@vinciblegaming6817 Watch any of the Fr. Vincent Lampert interviews.
@jeromepopiel388
@jeromepopiel388 3 дня назад
@@NuLeif I am saying that the presence and the glory are very unsettling to demons. It makes them want to flee. But not only that would happen but healing would take place in the glory. Recall that people got healed just from passing in the shadow of Peter. Acts 5:15-16 [15]Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. [16]There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one. But your Eucharist should be far greater.
@_ready__
@_ready__ 5 дней назад
How do you attain salvation?
@HAL9000-su1mz
@HAL9000-su1mz 4 дня назад
TROLL! JeDiv, EPH1:12, ROMANS11:16, and other alter-egos. Pray for this tortured soul!
@monitudor1050
@monitudor1050 4 дня назад
Transubstantiation is canibalism, not what Jesus said. "Do this in my remembrance", not like a dish! The event of sharing condition, not blood or bread! It's simbolism, not real blood and bread. You went too far! Jesus is coming back in flesh to take his believers wih Him.
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 4 дня назад
Early Christianity disagreed with your man-made tradition.
@monitudor1050
@monitudor1050 4 дня назад
@@fantasia55 my tradition? I am not Catholic!
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 4 дня назад
Read the early fathers. Also 1 Cor 10 13-17 & 1 Cor 11 23-27 If you don’t believe, investigate Eucharistic miracles that science can’t explain with the same AB blood type & living heart tissue.
@monitudor1050
@monitudor1050 4 дня назад
@@geoffjs science can't also explain miracles done by the devil!
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 4 дня назад
@@monitudor1050Do you follow Lutheran tradition? or Calvinist? or Baptist?
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