Mormons reveal themselves on  

Part two is up now on Patreon! www.patreon.com/posts/98248271? Gotta pay the bills somehow 🙃😜

As my mom says, “if you have to keep telling someone they’re equal, then they aren’t equal.”

Yep. As a gay, exmo, cancer survivor I was pissed.

That part about the law of chastity being the same for everyone is such a moot point. Imagine a law where you’re only allowed into drive if you’re over 6ft tall. Sure the rule is the same for everyone, but that doesn’t mean it has the same *effect* on everyone or that it’s just.

Cara said the first filming was scrapped because the mormons they cast didnt actually have the background necessary to stand up to the exmos

Someone should have asked Cardon how he’d feel if the church barred him from the temple for taking his Lukemia pills.

I think an important distinction when talking about straight versus queer people being treated the same in the church is it’s not just about sexual purity. You cannot act on your “same sex attraction” which means you cannot date the same sex. If me (a girl) and my brother were both dating girls and were chaste in our relationships only one of us wouldn’t be allowed in the temple. Straight and gay people do not have the same standing in the church even if the actions are the same.

Thank you so much for mentioning the whole women marrying gay men thing. It’s often overlooked or swept under the rug. The focus seems to be the man overcoming his “struggle” and no time is given to the fact that the woman maybe deserves to be with someone attracted to her, like hello? This has always pissed me off and it never seems to come up when it’s glaringly obvious. Women continue to be treated as commodities, a means to an end or at best a cure or sidekick. Truly sickening. Loved seeing John!! 😆

I have John saying "that's a yes or no, that's a yes or no" on an infinite loop in my head and it is my sole source of peace

Dillan here, from the Jubilee video. I absolutely loved this reaction video. You both have tremendous energy and I'd love to be on your show someday.

My friend and coworker in college had a nervous breakdown because he came out as gay and half of his family disowned him. The other half said something like "you can come over as long as you don't bring your partner." This was only twelve years ago. I visited him when he was hospitalized. He later tried to unalive himself. I don't think most mormon people understand how incredibly hurtful they are while trying to be "accepting" of their gay family, or how devastating it is to be outright disowned. It's almost like the family members who disowned him were trying to punish him so that he would pretend to be straight again.

Hearing someone talk about how they "used to live a homosexual lifestyle" just makes me so sad for them. I just want to give them a big gay hug and tell them it will all be ok.

-25:28 it's so telling that even though there's a churchgoing woman there, the Mormon men are speaking first

Everything Cardon said was so incredibly offensive and demeaning. You don't have to look further than him referring to women as "girls" to infantalize and diminish their personhood. Also, the rants from Tanner throughout were hilarious. I love it! Thanks for a great video y'all!!

" I have a question for you girls" Not women, girls. He refers to men as men and possible friends. The inequality is so baked in that infantilizing women is not just ok, but so normal as to not even be remarked upon.

“I don’t make the rules, I have leukemia”. That does suck, and it’s unfair. And it’s irrelevant. The trial is tolerating the church’s intolerance and exclusion. Sacrifice and Obedience traded for love. It’s all about commerce! What a Proclamation. Abuse can be expensive. .

Mormon men are absolutely convinced that there's gender equality in the Church, but the only faithful woman present wasn't really impressed. I feel bad for Bella, I think she's slowly realizing that they sold her a lemon. From the comments on the original video, I believe that Cardon and Kwaku are already regretting their decision to participate. I think that the South Park episode on Mormonism was better PR for the Church than this video. That Mormon family was a little cooky, but they were happy and kind.

I wonder if Tember is happier as a man married to a woman and having children than he was with his "boyfriends" because he never considered he could have a husband and children?! Cause the way he says "boyfriends" it sounds like he never had a meaningful relationship with a man.. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.. but when you believe it's a sin, it's hard to fathom a life where you could just be yourself. Also, if I was Tember's wife I'd be so sad hearing him talk about his marriage in this way.

Currently in an AirBnB in Brighton (the gay capital of the UK) and it's like 7am so I have to be quiet but my internal OOOOOH at "Can you name the Relief Society president?" was SO LOUD

“Magically give women the priesthood…” The priesthood is *literally* magic!

“Mitt Romney is out, soaking is in.” Iconic.

As a gay exmo who watched multiple people in my family die from cancer, the dude who thought he really did something with his leukemia speech can just.... no. I can't. I feel angry in ways I can't even describe. That was just not it. Also, calling the women "girls" there towards the end of the video 👀 tell me you don't see them as your equal without telling me you don't see them as your equal. Damn dude

9:54 the way Tember phrased his statement gave me the impression that the “difficult topics” were discussed at home rather than at church on Sunday school, which actually validates John’s assertion that the institution withholds that information.

Oooff that was painful to watch. The Mormon guy with all the crazy opinions was giving me war flashbacks ☠️ I was born and raised in Utah county where most people were LDS... and let me say I've known a lot of mormon men who are just like that guy. i always had issues with male leaders, even when I was still a member because in my experience, if you're a woman they have a way of making you feel so small and powerless. They act like they are smarter than you because they have the priesthood or whatever. Very manipulative narcissistic vibes

"I would trade even a little of Tember's gayness....." I can't even.....

The second Cardon said that saying that the lds church is a cult is a slur.... I had to pause the video and walk away for a few hours. I got so angry. This man is fully convinced that he goes through the same struggle as a gay woman of color like me. I can't. I just can't.

I actually just recently resigned from the church and one of my reasons that i listed was Heavenly Mother. I wrote that if women were expected to be the nurturers, why doesn't that translate over to the next life? Why wouldn't Heavenly Mother be able to contact her children?

It’s hard for me to listen to the mental gymnastics and hear the evil in the false equivalencies. I just don’t have the patience for the stupidity anymore and I want to just shake people. I don’t know how John is always able to deal with this stuff and remain calm and measured.

I feel very concerned for that woman he married, she must be feeling VERY used right now

In Mormonism don't the wives *have* to tell their husbands their heavenly name so that they can enter heaven or something? But the husband is not under the same pressure to do the same.

The idea that the church is fair to the LGBTQ community… and not being up how the institution of the church has gotten politically involved against equal rights. It’s wild.

The cat in the corner is the most important part of this video. More cat pls.😻😻

Actually, the Episcopal Church has been working to minimize the use of gendered terms when speaking about God, because God isn't male or female. Also, traditionally, in the Church (generally the Christian Church as a whole; I understand some churches have different views now, but before the splits happened) the Holy Spirit was considered the feminine part of the trinity, for trinitarian churches (I understand that the Mormon Church, JWs, and a few other churches are non-trinitarian). The Episcopal Church also ordains women as priests, deacons, bishops, etc., and the Episcopal Church was the first American church to remove the word "obey" from the marriage vows. Oh, and we have had gay marriage and openly gay leadership in the Episcopal Church since before it was fully legalized in the US, and, even when the Anglican Communion tried to kick the Episcopal Church out because of our acceptance of the LGBTQAIA+ community, and our willingness to support female leadership, our presiding bishop said that we are not going back on any of that stuff. He also helped fight for the legalization of gay marriage on the basis of religious freedom before the SCOTUS ruling. That all said, the Episcopal Church is not perfect, but I want to refute the idea that women are treated with greater equity by a church that doesn't allow most of what I have described above.

"...a little bit of gayness....."? 😡😡😡😡😡😡🤬

Hehe... Cardon powertripping his mormon priesthoods by donning the general authority cosplay.

Cardon using the “Leukemia and dying 20 years earlier” argument is appalling when so many LGBT youth die much younger than that because of what they go through in the LDS church.

That leukemia part was so cringe…ew. Such an irrelevant argument. As most religious arguments are

Cardon looks like he bullies kids playing little league baseball

This is very hard to watch. When you are in the mormon sauce you can't see all the things that now that I'm out I can't stop seeing. So many false equivalencies, so much superciliousness and pretension. I've paused so many times to rant to my cat. :\ Thanks you Samantha and Tanner for weighing in.

About the moderator, it's probably a reaction to backlash because they used to just let "debates" happen without a visible moderator or any apparent control.

I love to think how amazing it is with all the priesthood power in Utah that miracles don’t make the 6 o’clock news every night somewhere in the state. Sorry just interesting musings

The cat just watching in the corner is so healing ❤

I'm actually really grateful for Tember's comments on this video because they represent the "faithful" perspective that all members hear/learn. So many times I see Mormons doing mental gymnastics, or outright denying core doctrines when they represent the church on online platforms. I'm glad people who aren't familiar with the Church can see we ex mos aren't making this shit up!

This is only anecdotal from an elder Millennial pansexual. My observation is people in high control religions that are queer and then come back, or so oppressed and naive when they went into the queer community that they didn't choose healthy relationships ; the fallout problems are then blamed on the queerness and not rightfully at the lack of Education or decision autonomy

Kwaku: "No, I'm not, but what are you?" "Other people are also just as bad." Also constant word salad.

19:55 Mission nightmares are no joke. I knew a glutton for punishment that joined the Marines once he got off of his mission. He had a rough time in boot camp and took a piece of shrapnel to the ass Forrest Gump style. Even with all of this, he said 90% of his nightmares were LDS mission related.

Tember (the gay Mormon) was raised in a part member family and I think he has said that his Mormon parent was active. So he was basically raised in the church. He also runs a ‘support group’ for ‘same sex attracted’ members which gives me all of the icks. He did a pretty awful video with Ward Radio several months ago.

15:36 😂🤣 This cracks me up. I joined the church at 16 in 1979, and left in 1984. Hearing 'the script' 😵‍💫all these decades later still makes me cringe. 😬

Thanks ❤ for covering this. I tried to watch the original alone and rolled into an anxiety ball and turned it off after 3 minutes. When you posted a commentary I knew I could watch it and have comedic breaks cause you all lighten it up. THANK YOU!

I wish there was a person on the Mormon side that held orthodox views or at least someone who firmly believed what its members are literally being taught if they’re going to debate with ex Mormons

32:24 - “None of the good things about it are exclusive to Mormonism.” Oh yeah? What about getting your own freakin’ planet!? 🌍

Back in college like 15 years ago at BYUI, I had a roommate who was a recent convert and she asked me if I knew about racist statements by Brigham Young and I just shrugged my shoulders and said, "You don't question the brethren." Intense fear and shame instantly welled up in me as a lifelong devout mormon at even the thought that she would bring up anything negative about them or question them. Converts don't get that. & any TBM who says differently, or doesn't know the names of at least half of the apostles... did not experience the same church as I did.

I don't understand why they needlessly stress young missionaries the way they do. Life is already hard, so there's no reason to physically and emotionally abuse missionaries in order to do what? To force total obedient self-awareness and guilt 24/7? To make sure they root out the "weak"? To "groom them for marriage"?

cardon: magically change the power structure of the LDS church? No need for magic. Perfectly within human abilities.

Thank goodness for informed ex Mormons. Love that that guy comparing having cancer to the bigotry in the church directed at lgbtq people was shut down so easily. Hard to sit through I agree lol

Cardon is in full panic mode. They've been none stop insulting and trying to "debunk" everything the exmormon team said. Crazy cultists lol

I was a TBM for 30 years and never heard "living the Adam and Eve archetype," and it was RARE IMO to see a priesthood holder acting with patience and long-suffering. Everything Cardon said is beside the point anyway.

I really really appreciate both of you bringing humor to this Jubilee video. It was very triggering for me and it brought up a lot of very negative and sad emotions and I appreciate you guys bringing light heartedness to it. Your humor has been able to help me breathe and let go of a lot of my negative feelings towards this video and the Mormons and they’re cognitive dissidents in it. Thanks for your video. Great content❤️❤️

Men arguing about women not being able to have the priesthood to me just feels like white men crying about having to share their power with others in culture in general. Men of color and women? Then I have to share with more people. Women is just too far.

Lots of organizations are bad but youd expect the one true church to be at least a little ahead of the curve instead of behind it

I don't know if somebody else already answered this in the comments, but I watched Carah Burrell's video and she said that they filmed this debate a long time ago but that they never posted it because the Mormon side was miscast so badly to the point that John dehlin mopped the floor with them. So it was no fun. So they recast it and filmed a new debate.

I wonder if the “mixed-orientation marriage” statistics includes bisexual people who are married to heterosexual/homosexual people? I will have to look more into all that because I think that still counts as “mixed-orientation” but has vastly different connotations

19:50 yes that is so true, yet when you’re a returned missionary, you’re supposed to say that it is the “two best years” of your life. I wanted to be done with my mission towards the end.

I watched the whole thing and thought- can’t fucking wait for Zelph to react to this shit hahaha I really gotta stop raw dogging jubilee videos without cool people reacting to it lol

Cardon made a "choice" to have Leukemia/s Cardon also calls his wife "Britney the shadow"

Having both Cardon and Kwaku feels very scraping the barrel on the part of Jubilee. Would have been better to have an older born into the church type that isn't a pro/hired gun

Crazy that I went to the singles ward with Tember and was somewhat close to him. Never heard from him after I left and then seeing his say vile shit on this jubilee video had me going wilddddd.

Y'all's rants were honestly so therapeutic for me, especially the one after the cancer debacle -- can't believe he thought that was going to make him look good. That pissed me off so much ugh. Also the bit from Tember about joy in christ being better than his boyfriends -- so your relationship with Jesus, another man, is better than your relationships with your boyfriends, also men? What about your wife dude? She got mentioned like, twice?

Jill was spot on in her responses and explanations.

Tanner, you think in dimensions, very rare.... you hear what was said, and analyze, in real time, and relate your available information, you'd make a good detective.....

All the mormon missionaries in Europe taught a completely different chu ch doctrine than in America. They taught prayer and God is love and you can be forgiven, then they blind side you with pay tithing, you can't say certain words, you need to listen to priesthood and don't mind Jesus, the big old guy in Salty Lake is more important

I enjoyed this only because of your commentary both You guys are spot on and wise beyond your years thanks

1:07:58 Interesting that God didn't speak to the Mormon prophets earlier that woman are equal to men and should be treated equally here on earth.

Just wanted to pop in and say that there actually are some cool chill progressive religions out there. It's possible to have both religion as a source of culture and meaning and community WITHOUT all the icky controlling aspects. I was raised reform Jewish (the most common Jewish movement in the United States) and believing in God wasn't even a requirement. I could both A) not believe in god and B) still be a considered a good jew.

The most telling thing for me, outside of this video, was the reaction videos that both Ward Radio and Mormon Stories Podcast did. The grace that Mormon Stories gave everyone in the video (within reason) vs. the immature and foul behavior that Ward Radio showed spoke VOLUMES on critical thinking, accountability, and acceptance.

I very much appreciated the Groundhog Day opening.

John in a hoodie is so weird

1:23:07 second comment! This comparison is such bullshit, he’s comparing social media influence to institutional power! If she posted something like “let gay couples get married in the temple”, that wouldn’t change the temple ceremony and she would certainly be released from her calling! If the prophet said “gay couples can get temple married”, then we’d actually see the change!

I kept getting this jubilee video recommended to me and couldn’t bring myself to watch it…this was the absolute best and only way I could possible stomach that video so thank you both so much for your perspective and deep thought! ❤

Black people couldn't vote, sure, but some white men people had leukemia !

Finally getting a chance to sit down and watch! Nothing like a bowl of curry and Zelph video on a long weekend!!!!

I have long said that religion is an institution that you can never graduate from

Oh. My. God. No wayyyyy! I’m so nervous to watch this

thanks for posting! i wanted to watch this jubilee video but def couldn't do it alone ❤

I was VICIOUSLY waiting for y’all to make a response video to this...the way that I audibly gasped at 42:50

Great reaction guys. I’m really enjoying watching reactions from various ex Mos. I especially loved Tanner’s reaction to Cardon. That was exactly how I felt watching it.

cult is an...(checks cardon's notes)... anti-mormon slur.

Can we just take a moment for Sam's Percy Pig mug! 😂😍🥰❤️

I've tried watching this jubilee video a few times but find it very triggering. For context: never Mo, queer recovering from evangelicalism.

Tember seemed especially in denial.

This has been my favorite commentary I've watched on this Mo vs ExMo video. You guys voice pretty much all the thoughts i had while watching it myself, and I really appreciate it Sending all the good love your way!

It is so nice to have watched the Jubilee video before this and see you guys react almost the same ways i did. 10/10. Love Zelph on the Shelf

-1:17:00 my new years resolution to work on my shoulders is being reinforced by Tanner's developing physique

the sheer joy that flooded me when i heard the groundhog day radio intro

Ya Tember is not bisexual fyi. Just in case someone else hasn’t mentioned it yet. He doesn’t go on a lot of shows so people may not know his story, I just happen to have seen him before. He became a Mormon & married a women but still has “SSA” & from how he talks isn’t attracted to women at all. Which if true, his poor wife.

I’m with ya I hate it when ppl say “judeo christian” that’s an American thing, that has spread out to other European countries. It’s not a “stolen valour” thing though, Judaism isn’t better than Christianity, in some sects it’s way worse, it’s just a completely different religion at this point & conservatives have been programmed to say it.

Your insights are golden

The comments about his leukemia were very random, had nothing to do with the subject, and were quite rehearsed

The term "Judeo-Christian" also pisses me off. When I first began studying Judaism I found it was not only very different than Christianity, but also discovered that everything I'd been told about Judaism was a lie.

I love how you two are so intelligent in what you say!! You are helping me piece things together in my deconstruction. Thank you.