Debunking false narratives about ex-Mormons

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We debunk the false, self-soothing narratives believers of high-demand religions and cults have to tell themselves about people who leave, and discuss why the phenomenon is so pervasive.
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7 мар 2023

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Комментарии : 197

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Hello friends! If you find content like this valuable and want to help us keep it coming every week, please consider supporting the channel! We rely on donations to survive! You can send us a cheeky little Venmo @ Samantha-Shelley-1 or donate via PayPal (link in bio). And also, of course, PATREON, our favorite community!!!! 💚💚 www.patreon.com/zelphontheshelf

@emersoncrafts Год назад

My partner is an ex jw and im an exmormon and let me say the the religious trauma in our household has hands 🙃

@bigtombowski 5 месяцев назад

I hope you folks can cope. Even as an eXangelical, I still struggle every day

@acatnamedm4529 Год назад

Teach kids to bear their testimony but be surprised when they (checks notes) do the same thing when they leave the church.

@amygreen758 Год назад

Ooooooh, good point!

@ellismerrill8501 Год назад

my dad always says "I don't want to call scientology a cult, because I don't like when people call my religion a cult"

@tannergilliland3257 Год назад

I explained to my dad how Scientologists believe an ancient intergalactic humanoid named Xenu dumped a bunch of evil entities on earth and now they posses our bodies and become responsible for all our sickness and maladaptive behaviour patterns. He said, "Wow, and people think Mormons have weird beliefs!" I was like, bruh, just change out Xenu for Elohim and it's the same thing lol

@crashwithkirby6708 Год назад

If it quacks like a high demand religion…

@adambreese9263 Год назад

“That’s a good point dad. It’s demeaning and reductive, and removes agency from its members. We shouldn’t look down on people who hold different beliefs than us - after all it’s the systems underlying those beliefs that restrict and constrain people’s agency, and smart, rational people join New Religions all the time, without ever considering them cults. This is for good reason, too - New Religions employ carefully crafted linguistic tactics that trigger important evolutionary instincts like community, belonging, identity, emotionality. However, these religions become dangerous when groupthink takes effect; where members start to suppress their doubts to conform to group beliefs/values/faith, making it difficult for them to think critically or question the group’s beliefs. This could include thought-stopping phrases - turns of phrase that discourage further exploration and shut down healthy discussion, because the group’s beliefs are prioritized and held as undeniable truths no matter what evidence/examination might bring to light. Another example could be using jargon that would be unrecognizable/illegible outside the group - one of many tactics used to other any outsiders, or the world outside the group, further insulating them from alternative perspectives and serving to control the available sources of information they can consume. And while the LDS church does engage in a lot of the same kind of stuff as Scientology, it falls short of being outright dangerous to most people - I mean, they’d never discourage us from asking questions or investigating the church’s beliefs and their validity - after all, that’s literally what Joseph Smith was in the process of doing when he had his first vision, which served as a foundation to the church - you could argue skepticism and seeking answers is baked into the church’s own methodology. I’ve been reading the church’s gospel topics essays on their website recently as part of my spiritual journey following in the prophet Joseph Smith’s search for answers. Can I share what I read at our next family home evening?” 😉

@bewitched3912 9 месяцев назад

😂 spoken like a cultist

@raspberryitalia3464 Год назад

I'm ex-vangelical and my parents have never asked why I left the church either! They don't ask what my beliefs are, they don't ask my opinion on anything beyond surface level life stuff, and I assume it's because they don't want their POV challenged at all

@victoriagibby8069 Год назад

Ex-vangelical instead of ex-evangelical is clever! Exchanged a high demand religion for a cool label lol

@webofstarlight Год назад

Same. I'm scared to tell my family I'm agnostic even though I'm a grown adult.

@Alex-zh2jv Год назад

Mmmhmm. I told mine that I wasn't religious and they have not asked about my beliefs since.

@animeartist097 2 месяца назад

Same here! Although my parents constantly challenge my beliefs. If I challenge theirs though, or bring up facts that prove that there are contradictions in the Bible, they shut me down. They won’t listen to anyone I listen to because I listen to people who are atheist or agnostic. They assume I’m an atheist (I’m agnostic), don’t ask what I believe, and preach to me all the time based off of their assumptions.

@chispitablanca Год назад

I’m just laughing about the fact that anyone would ever claim that people “make ex Mormonism their whole personality” because nearly all the members I grew up around were so busy with the church that they had no hobbies or other interests. They all did three things: church activities (sacrament meeting/Sunday school, weekly activities, callings, visiting/home teaching, reading scriptures, family home evening, service projects, temple trips, reading church magazines, etc), working and raising kids.

@madeleineclark283 Год назад

You're 100% right. Mormonism is their entire personality, so it's incredibly hypocritical (and downright funny) when they talk about Ex-Mormons having no personality outside of being Ex-Mormon. I grew up LDS on the East Coast, but I moved to Utah in high school, and I've lived here for the past ten years. I have a pretty sarcastic sense of humor, and it's socially acceptable to be sarcastic on the east coast (at least as far as I remember.) In Utah I've noticed if you are sarcastic, people either get uncomfortable or think you're flirting with them. I don't know if it has something to do with "loud laughter" or "speaking ill" or WHAT honestly, but I've noticed that it seems to be a part of being a good member of the church and fitting in around here, not being too sarcastic. I've never heard anyone openly condemn sarcasm in church, but it definitely makes people uncomfortable. Mormons have unwritten social rules about being Mormon they don't even acknowledge or put into words that they typically follow. It most definitely IS their personality

@stheno4783 Год назад

That's a major reason leaving hurt so bad. It's like removing 75% of who you are and having to rebuild your whole identity and life from the ground up

@madeleineclark283 Год назад

@@stheno4783 exactly

@juliebrandt197 Год назад

This is so accurate! And it was why I couldn't find any stimulating friendships in TSCC. There was no zest for or curiosity about life or the world.

@akpokemon Год назад

@@madeleineclark283 Utah adults often seem to employ this sickeningly super-fake kindness (while bullying people behind their backs) instead of teasing and employing sarcasm to people's face. It makes me feel super uncomfortable around Utahns because I can't help but think "What are you hiding? I can tell you're not _actually_ as humble, chipper, and nice as you're trying to portray." My suspicions almost always prove correct. Utah adults thus come across to me as scary, disingenuous, cliquey (more than the midwest/east IMO) and overall, socially gross. You can almost always bank on the fact that they're making fun of you behind your back while putting on a disgustingly sugary-sweet, sappy persona in public.

@markh.harris9271 Год назад

The irony about "lazy learning" is that it is 'actually' the TBM mormons who are the lazy learners. They just take what they're told, keep rolling with their family and friends, and refuse to "learn" about the history of the church and the anomalies and anachronisms of the BOM. The real hard work of learning actually happens during cult deconstruction, sometimes for decades (four and a half in my case). marcus

@gnomie06 Год назад

Going to EAC with Tanner before his mission, I can for sure confirm that he was very Mormon and it seemed to work out great for him. I never doubted his faith at the time. As you mature and grow and learn, you are allowed to change your mind. You are allowed to change everything about you if you would like!

@Endogal Год назад

Not ex-mo, but exvangelical. I really appreciate you bringing up the similarities. It’s true, I really relate to a lot of y’all’s stories. Love this channel. ❤

@somethingXyouXmiss Год назад

YES! I also went to BYUI and LOVED it, but I’m also white. Also thought the small city life was quaint and cute and had never lived somewhere that was all Mormon. I actually drove up with a POC friend who was also starting school there. As you can imagine she had a VERY diff experience in Idaho

@natalieholt8477 Год назад

Similar to JW shunning of apostates: Back in the last century, local Utah newspapers used to publish lists of local members who had been excommunicated. The church had no problem ruining people's lives or livelihoods in this way.

@emilyrln 10 месяцев назад

Wow, that's a huge yikes.

@Nesi-Rose Год назад

Cults to Consciousness also just posted a video comparing Mormonism and JWs. It's really interesting how similar the two groups are!

@rebekahNo_cca Год назад

I really fully believed it with all my heart and spent so much time learning, read watching and understanding Mormon doctrine when I was a member. However not being straight, having mental illness, being gender non-conforming, I found it extremely difficult to socialize or feel welcomed in the Mormon community on any level. So while I had a wealth of knowledge and understanding, I think externally people assumed I didn’t know anything and it’s no wonder I “fell away”. It’s weird to realize since everything is so surface level within Mormonism, and people never really got to know me they’d likely use me as an example of someone who didn’t really try or care so obviously I left!

@RurouniTenShins Год назад

I’ve actually considered that it can be the most intense believers who are more prone to leave (as opposed to them not ever having had ‘true testimonies’)… if you find out all the jank involved with the church, and you’ve sacrificed so much by who you were in the church, it makes for a bitter realization… if you were never that into it, or never judged the shit out of a good friend who wasn’t Mormon, there’s less on the line to make you want to leave.

@lukaj679 Год назад

I think some believers of high control religions don't ask why people leave because their "Us VS Them" worldview is all-encompassing. If they ask, they are forced to view their loved ones as less of an "Us" and deal with the cognitive dissonance between their connection and their indoctrination. It's the same way some couples that fall out of love refuse to bring it up out of a backward attempt to hold the illusion together.

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

👏🏻

@mylifewithmarmalade4624 Год назад

Well and the whole “make exmormonism their whole personality” complaint forgets that for many people Mormonism was their whole personality before, so now there is a giant vacuum they have yet to figure out how to fill, and on top of that deconstruction is WORK, especially if you have associated trauma that also needs unpacking. So yeah, that sort of consumes your whole life for a while, fills that vacuum, and at some point hopefully you get to a point where you have enough of a grip on reality to start developing other interests. But yeah, very normal for new ex-mos to do very little other than deconstruct and unpack trauma for a while.

@gamergirl24 Год назад

My dad freaked out when I said if I answered the door and saw the JWs, I would tell them I'm an apostate instead of trying to give them a Book of Mormon. I was like, "I'm not going to try to push a different cults on the cultists trying to get me to join them. I'll stick with telling them I'm an apostate so they'll leave me alone."

@gardengirl6636 Год назад

Great discussion. I’ve been out of the church for almost 20 years and not one family member has ask about my reasons.

@ChristopherSadlowski 10 месяцев назад

Because they know you'll be honest. And if you're honest they're going to hear some shit. And if they hear some shit they're going to have to think about it. And if they think about it they might figure out their church is a cult and is pretty bad. It's easier to stay in blissful ignorance, which is pretty sad.

@gardengirl6636 10 месяцев назад

@@ChristopherSadlowski very insightful and true.

@mela2202 Год назад

Speaking of people from all different backgrounds - never been mormon but had a friend who was and this channel did provide me with one "it all makes sense" moment: she was complaining about her boyfriend 's mistake in his paperwork for his mission that he had sent late in the first place and saying "it's almost as if he doesn't want to go at all!" It stuck with me. Your video on Tanner's mission (and related videos) gave me an aha moment! He for sure messed up on purpose. P.s. My first out of very few mormon class that I took with my friend was the first book of the mormon (or whiever book teaches you about how Native Americans got their skin tone). Enlightening first glimpse at her belief system!

@flamingoqueen281 Год назад

The tooth thing made me think of a story my Sunday school class was told about an extremely poor woman who gave her last coins to the church and that was better than all the lavish gifts that rich men gave. In retrospect that was a seriously fucked up story.

@jaylarsen67 Год назад

I jumped off the Mormon bus in the early 90s while it was going let's say 50 miles an hour. I got busted up. And my siblings ostracized me; some more so than others. The church did very subtle things to undermine my relationship with my kids. I also need to say I was faultless. I said something's to set some boundaries but I could have said them nicer, yet they didn't realize how rude they were to me. I could go on and on but it took years to learn healthy ways and paid a huge price. I am so glad I'm out.

@zacharythompson1368 Год назад

Too any Mormon who ever gets up in arms about drag queens, remind them that one of Brigham Young’s son was a Drag Queen who preformed at Lorenzo Snow’s birthday party as his drag character.

@RIO4LIFE Год назад

My world was soooo different being raised outside of Utah - We always thought we were “more Mormon” than Happy Valley - living out in the mission field - I grew up a member missionary

@kathrynclass2915 Год назад

When I was in seminary in the mid 1980s my seminary teacher told our class that 144,000 people would make it to the highest level of the celestial kingdom. And THAT was the starting point of my religious scrupulosity.

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

!!!!!!

@kathrynclass2915 Год назад

@@ZelphOntheShelf yeah, it’s in Revelations somewhere. I got so scared of the last days when we studied that stuff. Ha ha. I don’t know how he came up with it indicating the # of people in the top tier of the CK. I haven’t looked into it to see if there are any teachings in our history about that. Update: I went looking and found these passages on the church’s website. So my seminary teacher was teaching bad intel. 1. “You may want to summarize Revelation 7:4-8 for your students and then have them read Doctrine and Covenants 77:11. Explain that the information provided in the Doctrine and Covenants clarifies that the 144,000 people will be Church leaders with important responsibilities given to them by God. Revelation 7:4 is sometimes misunderstood to mean that only 144,000 people will enter God’s presence, but this is not true.” 2. “In Doctrine and Covenants 77:11 the Lord explained to Joseph Smith that the number 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8 is the number of representatives out of the twelve tribes of Israel who will be ordained to assist others in their quest for exaltation (see the commentary for Revelation 14:1-5). It is not, as some people believe, the total number of people who will be exalted. “The church of the Firstborn” refers to those who will be exalted and become joint-heirs with Jesus Christ (D&C 77:11). Members of the Lord’s earthly Church-The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-who live righteously and receive the ordinances of exaltation will become members of the Lord’s heavenly Church-the Church of the Firstborn (see D&C 93:20-22).”

@philw4025 Год назад

Another fun video as always! I really get a lot out of this channel as a NeverMo. The idea that really stuck with me from the conversation is basically vicarious deconstruction; everyone seems to point to things like what you both mentioned about Going Clear, and how seeing those things with others' beliefs being something we can disprove in our minds, eventually leads to a moment of, "oh crap, I could apply this to what I believe!" Then begins the slippery slope of examining ourselves and our own belief structure. All of which also ties into that people who took their faith so seriously, like both of you, are the ones more likely to examine it that way once that thought enters into the brain; it's the total opposite of the Quorum's "lazy learners". Edit: Also since you two were reading JW stuff...might I recommend some Caleb and Sophia videos? It's their propaganda kids series with such themes as: 1. Don't save money for ice cream, give it to the organization instead. 2. Your friend has two moms? You should be a homophobe to be Jehovah's friend. 3. God wants you to destroy the wizard action figure you're playing with, because it's witchcraft-related. 4. You had a cupcake at school because a kid was giving them out on his birthday? You should have a crippling anxiety that you'll burn forever because you celebrated a birthday.

@stheno4783 Год назад

Wow that kid propaganda stuff was painful to read 😟

@jaybirdvlogs7279 Год назад

My mum has also never asked my why I became atheist! Even to the extent that whenever I mention not being christian, she either pretends she didn’t hear, or acts surprised!

@pandorabryn Год назад

He’s using a secondary definition of “literature” which we don’t hear as much in the internet age, but was common when I was a kid: “leaflets and other printed matter used to advertise products or give advice”.

@webofstarlight Год назад

Ex protestant here: your channel is so cathartic to me coming from a semi fundamentalist family even though there are significant denominational differences.

@dawndiscusses5685 4 месяца назад

The bit about people responding better to having the psychology broken down vs the history/theology has been so true in my experience. I actually found you two because over the past year I've been getting more involved with a new religion (a sect of Hinduism actually) and while it's been exciting, and all the things you'd expect from a new religion, I began to feel increased shame and anxiety because of my inability to 'do things right' according to the beliefs. Any deep dive into the theology fell flat, because I'd only grow more convinced of the teachings and feel even worse for failing but when I found you guys it clicked. I thought to myself 'let me look into something that's obviously high control, and harmful and if I can differentiate what I'm doing from that then I at least know this path is safe' and as you probably guessed, that's led me down my own path of deconstruction which I'm only in the beginning phases of. Despite the differences in ideology, I'm able to find so much comfort and support in this little community through understanding how these organisations operate. Thank you so much for all you do.

@Moundfreek Год назад

Idaho has a pretty large wolf population, at least compared to other western states. However, they lethally remove an average 33 percent of the population each year (ex. 214 individuals in 2022-2023, according to the Idaho wolf management plan). In Idaho, wolves can be recreationally harvested via hunting tags and culled to "preserve ungulate populations." The whole "killing predators to save deer" is a misdirected science, since it's nearly impossible to isolate predation from habitat loss, disease (i.e. chronic wasting disease), and other variables that also affect ungulate numbers. But, as you've pointed out, wolves are heavily demonized, especially in conservative states. The Idaho population has remained stable despite heavy removal, however, that doesn't speak to the ethics and humaneness of wolf killing (again, like you said). It's heartbreaking. That's probably more info than necessary. But I read wildlife management plans for a living, so I had to jump in as the know-it-all asshat. Oh, yeah, we were talking about religion XD

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Thank you!!!!

@songs-of-seers5139 Год назад

Plus, over population of deer is a frequent problem that exacerbates erosion. Nor are deer the only prey of wolves in Idaho. Predators are important!

@squidyinkydink Год назад

ExJW here 🤚🏻- I have not spoken to my father in 13 years. I left and I am dead to him. As for 144,000 that’s how many they think are going to heaven to rule with Jesus. All other JWs will live on earth and be ruled by them after Jesus and his minions slaughter the non believers.

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

💜💜💜💜

@user-jl2kk8ps9i Год назад

Yeah - another exjw here :) Like you said, most believe that they'll just live on earth and have no desire to go to heaven. Just a few, usually fairly crazy, people think they're going to heaven, but there's no way to tell because it's all made up haha

@jaylarsen67 Год назад

My Veterans For Peace friends left the military in the 70s and are still creating good trouble against how the government glorifies war. So, I want to be a part of creating good trouble against the unhealthy crap from religion.

@Where_is_Waldo 3 месяца назад

I grew up in a predominantly mormon town as a non mormon and this show has certainly not only taught me things I had no idea about but also helped me understand behavior I observed. I had a close friend growing up who was mormon but most of the town including his father seemed to view me as an outsider... and I say seemed only for his father's sake, the other school children would often bully me and my siblings and the parents and teachers mostly endorsed it. The one principal who stood up for us was fired by the school board after half a school year.

@ZelphOntheShelf 3 месяца назад

💜 💜 💜

@CplAnguadaEarth Год назад

I’ve been binging your videos lately! My uncle and another family friend are exmo so it’s good to understand more! And it’s always good to understand more about religion from a non religious perspective.

@CplAnguadaEarth Год назад

To be clear, I’m nevermo, so I didn’t understand about their experience until I watched more RU-vid videos. I’m technically Presbyterian but I’m still figuring out whether any church is for me or if I’m an atheist.

@bethan.gruffydd Год назад

You put this SO perfectly, Sam! "It's too threatening to even acknowledge that people [apostates] are sincere in their criticisms/issues. They [members] have to take it to another level of delusion [and just say that apostates are lying about their motives]." Spot on description of this pattern in nearly all high-control groups/cults

@kolober2045 4 месяца назад

I was invited to speak at my seminary graduation while some classmates could barely drag their behinds into class a half hour late, but I'M the lazy learner.

@ellicia_elliott Год назад

Yes!! Thank you for speaking for the wolves. I hate how they are villanized!

@Skrimshady Год назад

It's just like Mormons to villianize a creation of God

@jessicacummings3469 Год назад

I'm basically atheist now and my husband is still an active member and I still go with him to church and it is so hard not to be bitter. He knows I don't believe but I feel like he would rather pretend I still believe.

@mrspreminger Год назад

i definitely agree with you guys about the whole idea of former members of religions speaking out because they have bad experiences and not just because they don’t believe anymore. i used to be hindu and am now an atheist because i just don’t feel any kind of spiritual connection to a higher being. my parents never forced me to be hindu and i never got shamed for leaving the religion. so hinduism is something i mostly feel neutral towards. i will say this is coming from someone who grew up in the US and there are a lot of religious tensions going on in india right now, and i’m just talking about my experiences.

@mrspreminger Год назад

my grandpa is the only one that’s kind of stuck on the idea that i’m an atheist, and even he’s more upset that i don’t believe in anything rather than him being specifically being upset i’m not hindu.

@FearMyLadyBits Год назад

it is sad though that Hinduism is currently being used in India to keep the ruling caste in power (tribalism "us vs them")

@adambreese9263 Год назад

That members can’t acknowledge that exmormons believe what they’re saying could also be a sign of projection, maybe. Members themselves hold fragile faith, and aren’t sure if they really believe what *they* are saying.

@juliebrandt197 Год назад

You're definitely onto something here!

@mjs72660 Год назад

There are members of the LDS church who are very genuine, kind, honest and don’t deserve to be called fake just because they are members of an organization that is untrue to them. That is the best part of the organization of the church. I was always taken care of when I had my babies or had an operation. The relief society was on the ball and most of the sisters willingly and happily served others. THAT is the part I wish we could save of the whole thing.

@venlakirahvi Год назад

Cats... Watching this lying on the sofa with my mom's cat, both under the blanket.. Whenever he thinks it's been too long without loving eye-contact or petting, he reaches out and taps me in the face with a paw. If I don't respond within the first few tries he adds claws. Help

@Maryfs1 Год назад

My brother asked why I left, but didn't listen for long.

@somesortofdeliciousbiscuit3704 Год назад

It's like 50 years ago when drag queens were also drivers of revolution during the wave of queer liberation in 1960's and 1970's

@emmagillette6249 Год назад

Tanner- get yourself a health insurance agent!! In Utah they can help you find really affordable plans. You really shouldn't have to go without. It's a super well-kept secret, but they are so helpful and it's so easy to get a plan through an agent. Seriously!!

@tannergilliland3257 Год назад

I actually had insurance through an agent that was really cheap. But then the next year the gubment said I no longer qualified because I made an extra couple hundred dollars 🤷‍♀

@emmagillette6249 Год назад

@@tannergilliland3257 ugh that sucks. It must be so much more strict for single person households. 🥲

@Myartspaces Год назад

Yeah. I only left the church so I could sin, not because of doctrinal conflicts.

@Havvyer 3 месяца назад

I joined the church for social motives, thinking I could meet a boyfriend there, or just to potentially hook up... but then the Law Of Chastity came in the way... and to think my former ward was so full of elegible guys! 😄 I'm so glad Mormonism was only a 5-month phase in my life, and when I told these missionaries it was a wrap for me, no one from the ward ever really pushed me to go back. I guess I can count myself lucky. ☺

@Calithecalico1031 5 дней назад

My seminary teacher: I know some of you aren’t keeping the commandments because the light is gone from your eyes Me: I’m sleep deprived and clinically depressed and this religion has taught me to be obsessively ashamed with myself

@lucybarnes8969 Год назад

Love chilling with y'all and eating pasta

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

:) :) :)

@weezieyo Год назад

Hey Tanner, “handicapped” is pretty anachronistic and very mildly offensive. We, (disabled people), prefer to just be called disabled. No twee euphemisms in general, actually. Definitely never “differently-abled” or ish like that. And instead of saying handicapped stall/parking/whatever, use accessible. So, accessible parking, etc. (No offense taken here, just trying to be informative and fight ableism where I can.)

@tannergilliland3257 Год назад

sorry for the miswording!

@Ok-hr1tf Год назад

Yes so true people love to beat around the bush and come up with all these phrases but the fact is we’re dis -abled Also no offence taken just a great educational moment xx

@samdedman9629 Год назад

Love these long form videos! Also love the new song Sam 🤠

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Eee thank you! 💗💗

@Poshposhposh Год назад

Sam, please share the deets on that top, I’m in loooove… y’all are simply the gods of fashion

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

It was from IconoCLAD in Salt Lake! :)

@Billie12208 6 месяцев назад

Realizing that Catholics use all the same arguments about why people leave as Mormons do as Scientologists do etc etc was the final piece for me

@mads597 Год назад

Alright, I wasn’t going to say anything but since Tanner broached the topic himself… the grey streak is *very* appealing. Unexpectedly so.

@celinepope Год назад

Genuinely, my parents both cite this "undeniable spiritual experience" that my dad had on his mission as why they belive in the church. Have yall ever, or would you consider sharing any experiences thought were that way, and how you explain it now?

@hittsrus5185 4 месяца назад

Would love Sam and Tanner's take on this! In the meantime, one of the Hosts from Growing Up In Polygamy (Sam) shares his spiritual experiences before he left the FLDS on a different channel (sorry to direct away) - Cults To Consciousness. In a previous video before, he talked about a time he was healed instantly by Warren Jeffs (like had to be carried there and got up to walk away after). It might be a good watch. In case the link doesn't work, it's called Ex-FLDS Member Explains Miracles Experienced. ru-vid.comThmsHkfOXcE?si=95sKJ7gsAd1NYV8n

@chuddieDs Год назад

Thank you thank you thank you. I needed to hear this today.

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

💜💜💜

@Where_is_Waldo 3 месяца назад

"Doing god your own way." I know I'm not the only one who heard it that way.

@TheWallaceReboot Год назад

The poverty porn in poor countries is so fucked up!

@randomname4726 10 месяцев назад

I can relate about your cats Sam. I have a house rabbit who jumps on me in the night for cuddles. Totally worth it though, I love my 3am snuggles 😅

@ZelphOntheShelf 10 месяцев назад

🥹🥹🥹

@lagkeys6428 11 месяцев назад

You know how you have to constantly reaffirm your belief & do worship & repeat the same mantras over & over again in the church? Yeah, that’s what you guys are to me 😅, I keep going back to my old ways of thinking but these vids help me feel that sense of community that I lost :)

@ZelphOntheShelf 11 месяцев назад

🩵🩵🩵🩵🩵!

@smileyeagle1021 Год назад

Okay, listening to you talking about JWs makes me convinced that you and Owen Morgan (Telltale) need to do a colab.

@akpokemon Год назад

Yes, that "light in their eyes" is literally just a roundabout way of calling people ugly or attractive lmfao

@LauraOttawa Год назад

You two are so smart!

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Omg 🥳💜💜💜

@tiana5395 Год назад

Wonderful debunking from one super hot and another super insightful person

@tiana5395 Год назад

(this is a joke, you're both super hot)

@tiana5395 Год назад

(and insightful)

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

We’ll never know which is which 💁🏼‍♀️

@FearMyLadyBits Год назад

my mom's sister is the only Mormon left out of 6 siblings. I don't think she ever questioned why everyone else including her father left the religion. She now lives in Arizona closer to the other Mormon relatives, and does practice apologetics and glorifying the deaths of some of the ancestors.

@hotdiggity8094 2 дня назад

I bought the game Cult of the Lamb and my Mormon dad told me to not play it in front of people because it could be seen as "offensive to our church". Bro you're saying the quiet part out loud.

@ZelphOntheShelf 2 дня назад

!!!

@jy285 Год назад

Great stuff, guys!

@kimtopology4257 Год назад

I was a Mormon yrs ago I was not a Jehovah's Witness when I was in the church I never felt that I related to Mormons I don't hate them they were nice to me But I was a Jehovah's Witness at heart so I left the Mormon church and went back to being a Jehovah's Witness because I can relate to them they follow the bible closer than any other religion when Mormons didn't use the bible so much they used the book of Mormon allot. The bible has helped me know God's name Jehovah all other translations of other bibles don't have God's name God wants us to know his name Jesus used God's name frequently in the bible Jesus says I have glorified your name . The reason why Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowship people it says in the book of Romans apostle Paul mentioned that those who know the truth but bring teachings that are not coming from Jesus we are not to speak to them and not have them in our homes in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 1Corinthians 5:5 are the reasons why it is God's arrangement in bible times as it is now in modern times .

@sophieaaa4203 Год назад

why did i get a five minute ad full of bible quotes and nature clips

@ponykazy3725 Год назад

bruh my cat woke me up by TAKING A SWIPE AT MY NIP!!!!!! 😭

@f0nd004u Год назад

I love the tarot jumper 10/10

@markh.harris9271 Год назад

Yes, for gawd.s sake, leave the fucking wolves alone already... 🙂

@markmaurer6370 Год назад

I'd be interested to hear your two's thoughts on Mormon history according to Matt Christman from Chapo trap house. He's got some thoughts on MLM's and Mormonism

@kyralise Год назад

looking very "Donny Osmond" today, Tanner 😇

@DirtmopAZ Год назад

Happy Wednesday!

@DirtmopAZ Год назад

My job starts at midnight and ends at 8-9:00, so I have no life during the day. Here for this

@christophernelson9289 Год назад

I love when you guys talk about J dubs! Great vid :)

@melinamenendez1732 Год назад

I get what you mean, but I live in a third world country and the mormons I know are upper middle class

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Ooh interesting

@brooklynapeterson Год назад

My grandma is a jehova's witness. She says she doesn't take a particular part of sacriment (I think? I can't remember) that leads you to heaven because she knows she wouldn't get in so she purposefully doesn't try.

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Wow

@katiemaloney4013 Год назад

can you please react to the new documentary on bbc following mormon missionaries in the manchester area, they are given access to the training centre and to the missionaries in the first few months of their mission

@timnewman1172 Год назад

Kevin doesn't like it when people talk about Kevin...

@tiger4092 Год назад

bruhhhh I love tanner and Samantha but I never want to watch these videos because they're soooooooooooooooooo long. is there a tl;dr somewhere?

@pembrokelove Год назад

Hey guys ~ when talking about JS as a sexual predator, it shook loose like... "Core Memory Unlocked, +3 Trauma" feelings, end it occurs to me that you guys would be probably the best people to ask just because of your in-depth knowledge of Mormon history. I remember being told when I was in my early 20s that Joseph Smith had been arrested prior to starting the LDS church for sexual abuse of an infant or toddler. Now, I do know that people make up or shit, or they hear some thing and conflate it with something else, i.e. that Joseph Smith was a sexual predator and didn't think of his wives but assumed there was something worse in his background and it turns into "Joseph Smith was raping babies"; but I also know there could be some truth to it just with how fucked up a dude he was. Is that something you have any knowledge of? I have done a couple of Google searches on it in the past five minutes, so of course that doesn't cover it all by a landslide, but I don't know what the primary source is. Is this something you have ever heard?

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

I haven’t heard about the infant/toddler thing, no. It seems Joseph was more of a hebephile than a pedophile, technically. I imagine that would be pretty mainstream knowledge by now if true?!

@pembrokelove Год назад

@@ZelphOntheShelf that's what I thought!!! It was the weirdest thing, literally as I was Watching this video it just popped into my head, and I remembered clear as day someone telling me this while I was in HS. I could even tell you who said it to me! And he was fighting with his parents about going to church every week because his shelf broke SUPER EARLY, when he was like 13-16. The internet wasn't widely accessible to everyone back then (I'm a lot older than you guys!) and it predates the letter, but he told us he had seen it while researching on Usenet.... which, you know. UseNet boards weren't vetted like, say, Wikipedia is today - you truly could just put anything you wanted into a subject thread on the Religion Board, so who knows? But I would definitely expect that to be, like, the FIRST thing most apostates cited if it were true.

@merricat3025 Год назад

From my understanding , Jehovah witnesses even if you're not one of the 144000 doesn't mean you're going to someplace bad. You'll be on paradise on Earth if not one 144000 as long as are JW.

@hg7842 Год назад

Do we have any information about where Tanner got his amazing sweater? 😍

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

the slc DI

@_june_lost Год назад

obligatory sacrifice to our algorithm overlords

@Where_is_Waldo 3 месяца назад

You definitely could change only a few words and make the responses of cults to people who leave into the responses of narcissists to their lover leaving them. Basically, change cult to narcissist and change apostate to ex. On the subject of drag queens, look into ronald reagan's drag show that he orchestrated as entertainment for the troops (when he was a B-list actor, before he was president). In attendance were children and the president of that time (I forget the year and which president), all seemed to be having a good time. I recently heard about the archives from someone I know who recently made their leaving the church official lol. It wasn't like a big deal or anything, more like an "oh yeah, I still haven't done that" kind of a moment but it made him think about it and he brought it up and explained it and it just struck me how much the church makes it a big deal. Like you can just stop going but to get your name off that list you need a notary.

@kaviweaver5152 Год назад

Wait , I'm confused- where is the crossdressing in Les Mis? I even googled and didn't turn anything up Coincidentally, my TN high school put on this show in 2008 - I wonder if they still would take that risk now. Even in 08 the "lovely ladies" bit was Heavily censored

@chlyri Год назад

Haven't gotten to that point, but they could be referencing Eponine, who pretended to be a man to get to the barricade to be with Marius.

@charlesmendeley9823 Год назад

Paraphrasing Tanner: Mormonism and Scientology are all the same... If you consider Joseph Smith a science fiction writer, then it all makes sense. At least the Liahona could count as sci-fi.

@AndImsomelady-fq6cw 6 месяцев назад

Scientology aint mincing words I guess.

@CarolinaKley Год назад

Selena did get a blood transfusion, the doctors did it even though it was against her religion. She was actually DOA but the doctors literally cut her chest open and kept on trying to revive her for 50 minutes after she was brain dead. She’s not the best case against that particular doctrine lol

@merricat3025 Год назад

I didn't know she got one. I thought blood transfusion wouldn't have saved her. Thank for info

@pennamealias Год назад

I love you two ❤

@realhealthrealwealth Год назад

Same senerio in oooooohh sooooo "holey" Christianity.

@ugnej Год назад

great videos always but more importantly! tanner where'd you get your shirt??

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

the DI lol

@Wander2WildBlueYonder Год назад

Thanks!

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

Thank you so much! 💜💜💜💜

@emmasirony Год назад

You guys give me bisexual panic

@dovestone_ Год назад

My grandma’s dad and two of her sisters got converted to jehovas witnesses Her sister got cancer young and died quickly because she refused treatment because of the teachings 😟

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

@timhocking529 Год назад

We need a podcast by the cat.

@be.kind.to.animals Год назад

The Kevin test ... haha hadn't heard that one.

@carmeloroche2381 Год назад

The JWs do no believe 144k only will be save, they believe-44 k will be part of the kingdom of God in heaven the rest of the righteous will be forever in earth as subject s of that perfect kingdom

@gardengirl6636 Год назад

I don’t see any way to support you on Patreon except at the $10 level.

@ZelphOntheShelf Год назад

It is possible!!! Haha

@gardengirl6636 Год назад

@@ZelphOntheShelf hmmmm, I can’t figure out how to….