My A Lange and Söhne Zeitwerk fiasco. If you own a luxury watch, here’s how you can protect yourself 

😂

agree

He did it in 1 take....

he should totally narrate them

First video on RU-vid over 10 minutes that I’ve watched (no pun intended) from start to finish for years!!

@plifplouf Really interesting insights about this! Especially that the factory watches from L&S are NOT always perfect. Anyway, the one thing we have not heard in all this is "why" the watch actually stopped in the first place. I mean, what was the actual problem with the watch. Have you ever seen this with a new, factory, L&S? Could you speculate? I also thought it may be that they have some common "glitch" that was suspected, and easy to handle, which might have led some "hero" to think they could easily handle at Wempe. Or like that. Other than anything obvious, they would have been a fool to tamper with it. What do you think on that score?

"L&S aren't the definition of perfection and it happens that watches are delivered with slightly damaged screws, oil smudges or hair fibers on the movement" are they 2020 Seiko in Disguise?? 😁here's me moaning about a misaligned bezel on an SKX! Seriously though, I would be incredibly cheesed off if I shelled out £100k for one of these only to find dandruff and pubes in it (OK - maybe that's an exaggeration but us watchmaker types see the tiniest spot of dust as a tonne of rotting dung.)

@@proto57 The ring in the "after" photograph shows a ring/gasket under the crystal sitting wedged against the outer edge of the caseback and the balance wheel. The balance wheel is a spring loaded flywheel of sorts that oscillates back and forth under tension of a hairspring. Given the placement of said ring, I would wager that friction applied by the out-of-place gasket ring applied a friction force against the balance wheel greater than the strength of the force applied by the hairspring which allows the balance wheel to oscillate, thus seizing the balance wheel completely, and this would in turn seize up the escapement (release of energy from the mainspring) through the palatte fork, which is basically the heartbeat of your watch. That's me guess.

@@HarryFlashmanVC dandruff , pubes and dung - that was frikin hilarious

@@SAXONWARLORD1000AD 😁

definitely cured my insomnia

I was thinking the same thing as he told the story I literally paused the video to tell my brother “this guy really knows how to tell a story”

Yes! Like ‘Serial’, but for watches!

totally agree, feeling angry for this gentleman

Atmitting you made a mistake and solve it, is a way more stronger point to keep a customer comming back I think...

@@haping1 I agree. Unrelated product category - but I think that is part of why a newer computer keyboard company, "Wooting," is doing so well. They always release dead-honest vlogs and post honest blog write-ups of what their current status is, about product innovation, and any mistake(s) that they have made along the way.

I suspect the Wempe boutique didn't think their watch specialist had done any damage. When you provided enough evidence to win in court, they opted to pay without admitting responsibility. It wasn't Sohne's fault, so not surprised they wouldn't pay.

What I went to the comments to write. Saved me 1,7 lines of texting!

Exactly why I wouldn't give them my business again.

I guess the employee that parted with them regularly did crappy work and they expected him to have messed with it.

In its basic function of telling the time of day, it's hard to beat a Hamilton grade 992B. They can be bought in deteriorated condition for less than $300 and with recent service for around $500.

I assume that the 'ex-employee' doesn't exist and it's just a slimy tactic to avoid taking responsibility for their incompetence@@jort93z

I agree , that would of been my first guess , but then if they fixed the issue it would void the original warranty unless L&S authorized them to fix it , which would never happen .

Im not sure I agree. My feeling was that Wempe said "we cant prove that you lie" and as a service we will just put it behind so you will spend more money in our shop in the future.

What a lovely comment to receive… thank you 😊

Professional grade production? He literally took other people's video footage with authorization !

On the visuals and video, that is correct ✅ I did not seek authorisation from the content makers (although I have credited them).

Maunders aren’t reputable either, they’re overpriced grey chancer parasites.

My sentiments, EXACTLY !!

🤔

Perhaps it was banned

Or the employee is still there. Companies often do this to point blame on someone without having to Man up and take responsibility. Sounds like a Non-reputable A.D. to me. I don't like excuses, only results.

In any case the photographs would be put in the company files not retained by individual employees.

​@@glennet9613 exactly, as if they'd have an oversight that glaringly large that the guy who takes the condition photographs takes them all with him when he supposedly "moves on".

🎯💯👏👊

As a watchmaker i think theres some caution to be had for this approach. Having worked in brands Modern Manufacturers will often do some crazy shit to your watches without you knowing. For example allot of brands now are not servicing watches but are instead just swapping movements with “refurbished” movements. And im not just talking cheap watches imagine your 30k gold chrono with a nice in house movement inside instead of even attempted to be fixed gets a 5 year old movement from someone elses watch and you loose your matching numbers.😅sometimes they will even swap the main bridge to the original to keep the numbers. This is all so they can syphon proftis to switzerland (its complicated) and also do large volume. At the luxury brand i worked at i swapped 12 7750 movements a day often from eta to sellita often without knowledge of the customer. We once had a watch where the only original part were the casing clamps everything else had been swapped! Obviously at the super high end your probably going to want it to be sent back to the brand mostly just because of parts availability being removed from most private watchmakers but i wouldnt think your under 30k watches are safe in the hands of brands if you care about originality. Also if you have vintage watches brands will charge crazy prices and give huge waits i had a guy wait 6 months for a ballance staff from patek which cost him 2k just for the part which then broke after two years, it hadnt been properly hardened! I made him a new one in 2 days for half the price with far better finish In the end Find a good watchmaker that is trustworthy and experienced if you want a expensive watch collection.

@@felixarbable agreed, some brands make ownership a bit difficult. My comments were related to this particular watch (which is why I mentioned "complicated and proprietary"). If your watch uses a fairly standard movement then certainly it becomes more likely that it can be serviced outside the manufacturer. I agree it would be nice to work with a qualified independent watchmaker. But I would suggest those people are in extremely short supply, and, the bigger manufacturers are making it harder and harder for them to get replacement parts. Some parts can be made from scratch by a skilled watchmaker (again, this part of the craft is becoming even less common among the already rare watchmaker industry - most are going to be simply swapping out parts, not making replacements) but for other parts it is not feasible to do so. I'd think a lathe turned part is the best case scenario, but for many things much more sophisticated tooling would be required.

@@hiboostsupra5965 yeh i mean also some modern movements have stuff made with LIGA, stamping or ion etching which isnt really availible to us and parts have become incredibly complex to make on a manual lathe. I have made wheels for older high quality watch and pocketwatches but i think it would be odd to do the same for a modern rolex for example and im not sure the customer would even want that so theres always that balance. Classical watchmaking techniques are often at ods with modern mass produced components. I think allot of the brands put customers and watchmakers in a difficult situation where they offer really poor service, but also dont give accreditation or sell parts. And as things become more proprietary and brands take things in house the quality of servicing and movement swapping will only get worse. But your right its hard to know as a layman, if a watchmaker trustworthy and to even meet them as we’re majority wierdo recluses 😂

Good advice, but not always possible. I sent my Rolex GMT Master 6542 to Rolex via an AD and only got a message from Rolex saying "Sorry, we don't stock parts for that model" (so basically, hard cheese, you're on your own).

Exactly. They only helped him because they got caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar! They didn’t help him because of past business with them and a loyalty to him/incredible customer service. I would never deal with them again.

after hearing this i would have nothing to do with them!

@@jfdomega7938 Imagine spending that kind of money and being treated that way??? Just like your typical car dealership scumbags, they helped them because they got caught between a rock and a hard place or evidence. 😱

for the price of this watch I would take delivery on a road trip to Glashütte (via Prague airport), a 2 hour drive after a short flight.

Good news everyone! They closed down. Permanently out of business.

Did he say what the problem was?

@@russojap1864 Yes he did.

Me too!

Kudos to the JLC reps that worked with ya , they def did well and won a customer for life in you . 👍

Never buy from richemont

@@jae7619 I think also depends on where one lives. My experiences so far have been with Richemont owned brands - Cartier, JLC, and VC. Never had a bad experience. Actually I just recently went into the Cartier boutique to have my Tank demagnetized - it was running erratically. They fixed it, no issue, no charges.

Excellent customer service from JLC

THIS is exactly how high-end companies, watch or otherwise, should treat their VALUED customers.

wow, now that's service with integrity!

I was thinking the exact same thing!!!

It's a total fabrication. I would never trust them again for even offering this as an explanation.

They are luxury goods traders and not watch makers after all I guess.

happy ending......Im smoking a cigarette....

I know the same woman charged me 60 quid for the same last week ...rip off eh?

Thank you 🙏

Thank you

Same lol

How would you act after spending this kind of money ?

Good point. Well made. But I can’t help but forgive the mechanical aberration… it’s just a part of life.

@@watchenthusiastlondon agree....as do ALS (in principle if not in practice), hence they offer a warranty....It would be interesting to know how much of the work (ALS cost) to repair the sticking movement would be subsidied by others (you/AD) for the cost of repairing the damage to the gasket and movement......

Now that 'zoo renovations' comment sounds like an interesting story! 😂😂

Yeah true! I mean who can hand on heart, say they've never had a problem with their zoo renovations! 🤣

Yeah brother what an expensive POS

@@blueswan2175 i don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a watch to do what is designed to do. Regardless of the cost.

The problem doesnt start at the boutique. Wempe is a great company. The problem begins, with his search of the "best price". There the lack of knowledge about this watch starts. So, at the end, its not his fault, but its his fault anyway. If he would have bought this watch at wempe, it would have been another story. Maybe not for the watch, but for him. instead of mistrusting everybody, he could have known the source of all of that. So at the end, its his fault for me. nevertheless it isnt in fact. The buy cheaper mentality is it, where it all starts.

@@Mullekular Great company doesn't mean it's infallable. It's not wrong to seek the better deal. It comes with a risk, sure, but he had all the papers, warranty etc. So it's not his fault.

@@Mullekular he bought from an AD who expressed willingness to return it to the factory for him. Instead he chose convenience and went to the dealer that wasn’t willing to work with him, who he undercut - expecting them to then spend time, which costs money to sort out the issue with the watchmaker to get them to receive the watch under warranty. It’s quite possible someone at Wempe said “hey see if you can un-jam this thing so we can get back to the business of selling watches- this guy went elsewhere for this one”. The best price did come from an AD and the AD’s inky fault that we know of is that of people several hours away by way of airplane. Going for the best price is a gamble that’s still paid off for the OP, but we are talking about a watch that’s likely over 100k. That move cost Wempe tens of thousands of dollars. You think they didn’t remember him being in there looking at the watch? They damned well know what that cost him…. You really think that store wants to spend time and energy sorting out a warranty issue? The OP knows how complex these watches are and how expensive they can be to maintain, he mentions owning others and a 2k+ repair bill. Even if he had to lay this repair bill out of pocket, I have to guess he was saving a hell of a lot more than 3.5K. So in the end, it’s about principal. Whatever the OP saved by buying from an AD in Italy 10,000?, maybe 15,000, who knows he cost Wempe that and more. Playing in that world, I wouldn’t want to gamble on whether or not there’s some spiteful people working at or running Wempe. There was no reason given as to why the employee was no longer at the boutique, just mention they weren’t on speaking terms etc. The guy could have been fired for tampering with that very watch for all we know. Then they pass it off to the factory for them to discover it and brush it under the rug. Obviously that’s pure speculation on my part- but something is going on there and Wempe being an authorized dealer presumably could lose their dealership rights if that kind of meddling came to AL&S’s knowledge - so their chances of taking responsibility are greatly reduced. The guy who took the watch in is conveniently out if the picture. The dealer this was bought from should have been given the first opportunity to make things right and if that was deemed too inconvenient, then yes, it should never have been bought from them in the first place,

​@@waterfordrs22 It doesn't matter if he bought it from a grey dealer in the Sahara Desert, if the watch is under international warranty, Wempe or any other Authorized Dealer of ALS is expected to handle this with utmost professionalism - and most would. If not solely for the fact of being the ALS access point for servicing/warranty issues, then certainly for servicing their current or potential future customers. Whether or not they remember the client being there, expressing interest in the watch or not is completely irrelevant. This is a high-net worth individual and as a highend franchise like Wempe, these customers are HIGH HIGH HIGH on their list of people they want being a client in their store. Doesn't matter if it's for servicing a watch purchased through them or not. With that said, I have had a Chopard serviced by Wempe (under warranty), even if I didn't buy it there, it was just simply the closest point of service to me. I was treated with absolute respect and they even gave me some additional goodies when I picked it up again. The wife's perspective explained at 26:55 > 28:25 is completely on point. Wempe is 100% at fault and just won't admit it, which is an absolute disgrace considering the evidence OP has in his favour.

@@nomansland120 I agree-. That he bought through Chrono 24 is not the matter. That was my overriding point. His beef is with Wempe not C24. That said, there’s basic psychology, there’s how things should be and how they are. Wempe clearly dropped the ball and isn’t taking responsibility for it. The dealer who sold the watch is the motivated party. Wempe may be obligated as a dealer - buy the proof is in the pudding.

I never even considered the removal of the case back as being an issue. I was dealing with an authorised dealer after all. That said, at no time did Wempe say they had opened the watch. In fact, they were adamant that they didn’t. As to Lange, I agree and share your disappointment. It should have never got to where we ended up…

I’m a little more pragmatic than my wife, but however you look at it, this was an uncomfortable situation and as she says, “not a very high end experience”. Really, this is a mistake that occurred at and was then rectified by Wempe, but that same boutique is branded A Lange & Sohne…

ADs are scumbags.

Unfortunately, the high end watch market has managed to create an environment where demand so greatly exceeds supply that customer service is becoming optional.

@@watchenthusiastlondon I'm shocked by this story. As far as I am concerned, a brand's responsibility should extend to the AD and the responsibility should thus be shared between them. If the brand authorised that dealer, the brand must share responsibility for any wrongdoing done by that dealer. The customer should never be blamed or forced to conduct extensive investigations to prove their innocence and to find the guilty party. If A Lange and Söhne are worth anything at all, they should divorce themselves from any AD which conducts themselves with anything less than absolute honesty and professionalism.

@@beardymcbeardface69 Offering an apology is the least of what Should be expected from Lange

This is what I thought. Seems pretty cut and dry once the photo revealed the boutique got the watch in good working order. Not sure how you can make a determination as to why an extremely complex watch seized up in a particular situation without at least opening the case and looking at the movement unless the problem was blatantly obvious.

It isn't, I guess bmw isn't high end. Your always to blame for poor work man ship they sold me a car with navigation without proper screen.

@@yo-ry1np the build of the watch was not the issue here. did you watch the video?

This!

But then it would only be a 5 min video... Im sure the author also knew this..

For small/obvious issues you can actually pretty much diagnose it just by looking at the movement through the crystal. You do need to open the watch to fix the issue (obviously) though.

What is Krimi-style way

@@jamesmclean2669 Now where you asked this I noticed that I used the German word. I corrected my mistake. Thanks for noticing. Krimi = Crime or Thriller

Awww. That’s a lovely message. I’ve not had a chance to make another video recently, but you’ve just spurred me on to do a proper deep dive review of the Zeitwerk… ps the Saxonia Thin is wonderful. I’ve never been up close to the starry night sky on your model but it’s a stunning looking watch 😊

Apart from agreeing wholeheartedly with everything that Dissident Aggressor says, I'm utterly astonished that you use your video to have a swipe at Watchfinder (a company to whom I have no connection, but who cannot be anything but innocent in this affair), and then you have the nerve to use a substantial chunk of their video footage! Whatever happened to British "fair play"?

@@peterh4381 I think you are confusing Watchfinder with Chrono24. Not once in this video is Watchfinder mentioned; and what is mentioned of Chrono24 is certainly not a ‘swipe’, but an expression of personal preference - which I think you can agree is more than fair to include in this video.

Yeah, maybe the person who is no longer there was fired for tampering with watches (or even THIS watch), but if that was the case it's definitely something they will want to keep hush about.

I agree 100%

Well said. All that investigation proved where the problem happened. Peopöe make mistakes sure. HOWEVER...their choice was to try to hide it, trick and lie to you, lie to the manufacturer...RUN AWAY FROM THEM

Yes, it seems that is exactly what happened.

Oh the story of the 'former employee' is one of the oldest in the book. I wouldn't ever deal with them again. Deplorable.

@@kchappelle Former employee story is on par with "dog ate my homework".

@@arlekin1976 Ha ha...

I totally agree. But Wempe is not a man, it's an organization. They might have not understood immediately what happened. They might have understood later, but tried to protect the good name of the firm. Saying "we are not sure how this happened and whether it's our fault, but we accept responsibility and cost" is fine in my book. There is no need to say "of course it's our unprofessional behaviour and we pay for the repair, please excuse us".

The worrying thing it seems, is that your experience kind of casts some doubt over Langes after sale service? Someone else on here had superb service from JLC even AFTER admitting he had caused the issues on the watch. Great stuff from JLC. For me I’ll stick to my Grand Seikos.

did your grandfather's watch ever get fixed correctly?

Ah, a comment about being waterproof. Watches like this are waterproof to certain degree not because you are going to wear them in the pool, but because that prevents dust and humidity from entering the movement. The movement has to be sealed for its integrity.

Oh no! I wouldn’t want to put anyone off from something so fabulous… but the Wempe service was disappointing

Thank you i

Thank you. Pleased that you got something from it. Not sure where the channel goes from here (I never imagined that I would ever make a video like this), but will continue to stick to what I find most interesting & hope others are able to relate. 🙏

Thank you 🙏

Thanks for the insight. As you say, I may well have simply been unlucky… it does happen. Appreciate the information.

The 7750, what you overwhelmingly likely have, sometimes gets its hacking brake stuck. This happened to me once and required me to go in and loosen it, and i have never had an issue since. In case you are curious or worried about it, i would say to quell those as it will likely never happen again and isn’t a fault with the crucial parts.

We’ll never know… (at least, Wempe won’t tell me).

@@watchenthusiastlondon Keep in touch with your contact there. He will tell you eventually. Or he'll tell you when he changes jobs to a completely different place. I couldn't sleep either if I wouldn't know. You make sure you come back here and tell us as soon as you know!👍

Possibly the employee opened the watch up and tried to put it back. Realised they fucked it up and quickly resigned with the evidence before someone else could check their work. Regardless, it’s an unfortunate situation for everyone involved.

Thanks. I suspect there are many who might have experienced something similar and many more who will. As you say, it’s not a pleasant experience. That’s why I made this video 👍

Thank you 🙏