My EIKI Telecine 16mm Transfer Setup 

Thanks for sharing this! I was wondering exactly how this was done. It sure takes dedication!

Remarkable quality, Fran. I, too, was that 10-year old who knew how to run the projector at school (early 1950s), and ended up running the film department at WGBH for a while. This brings back so many memories. Most programming was on film. The highlight of my life there was when management finally allowed me to buy electric rewinds which, I note, you wisely have.

Cool! Great job! Also nice to know how much she loves her oven.

Thanks Fran!

Nice setup; I wonder about the "opposite end" (camera, recording, processing) too :)

I was one of the one's who asked for this but you left out how you capture the sound. Obviously it's not a mic set up to capture the sound coming from the projector speaker and you have it fed directly to the camera somehow or is it a completely separate process?

This is so cool! There are so many films that have been "professionally" transferred and come nowhere near the quality that you have achieved, you obviously love what you're doing and it makes all the difference

Thanks! Brought me back to my days of running the AV department at my college. The AV room was also the projection room for the main theatre. I was responsible for putting in the order for the films used in classes and I would order things I wanted to see and project them on to the main screen and watch them from the projection room with the theatre empty. Such fun!

Thank you, this was great, I have a lot of family films that I would like to do this kind of setup on to record them. stuff from the 30s, 40s, and 50s.

Very interesting process and not at all what I expected. From what I understand, the frame rate conversion was required back in the days when NTSC TVs couldn't handle anything but 30 fps. And in PAL regions, film was simply sped up to 25 fps. But now that playback devices / software can handle video files with pretty much any frame rate, wouldn't it make sense to keep the original 24 fps?

Great presentation, Fran. I wish all film-transfer labs were as 'fussy' as you are! How does the telecine sync with the video (or vice versa)?

My wife was surprised when I pulled the oven door off. In her whole life she didn't know they came off. The safety freaks have made them put screws in that now have to be removed. I was good and didn't "lose" them.

I knew you must have had a proper telecine shutter for the quality of films that you’ve been posting! Thanks for sharing.

The 1950s and 60s really were another world.

This has been a FranLab Production Narration: Fran Blanche Hands: Fran Blanche Director: Fran Blanche Script: Fran Blanche Director of Photography: Fran Blanche Lighting: Fran Blanche Sound: Fran Blanche Editor: Fran Blanche Sets: Fran Blanche Props & Equipment: Fran Blanche Technical Advisor: Fran Blanche

Fran, I don't know the nuances, but I can find them if you ask. My brother used to run a "film chain" for Films Incorporated. Their setup was (pretty much) like you have, but with a very important (and curious) difference. The whole setup was columnated, and was shooting right toward the throat of the camera. They set IP the "ground glass" and focused the camera and the projector. When the setup was ready, they removed the ground glass (or in your case, vellum). The camera picked up the virtual image with no intermediate "screen". Let me know if you want more info...

Thanks so much for that explanation. A direct telecine projector makes it so much easier. No need for frame-by-frame capture or post-transfer conversion to 30 fps (well, 29.97). And frame-by-frame would be a nuisance for sound-on-film, since you'd have to capture the sound in a separate pass, then re-synch the soundtrack in post. Yuck. This EIKI does it all in one pass. Super cool!

Why do the screen and the projector have to be so much appart, is it possible to somehow shorten that distance Cant you have the camera direcly in the projector without using its lens? Also wouldnt the distance lower the quality? (I mean the room is not completly dark because projector is shining the light in the room?)

Nice video! have the same Bell and Howell, I rather like it, it projects a very bright image.

Its a nice way to get quick transfers, but the dynamic range is lost without R/G/B frame-by-frame scanning or if you have the time script-assisted drum scanning colour depth is lost with indirect scan methods sadly, but It's funny seeing people with frame-by-frame advance rigs on timers for 8mm although it makes sense 14bit in-camara raws to DNG raw then it's just a matter of conform'ing that to CDNG for lossless video archives. One gripe I have about YT is your need to push 8k to outweigh the macroblock artefacts, As learned with VHS-Decode RF - Video online production chain.

What video camera did you use? I use my iPhone and an app that records 24 fps so no need for telecine projector. I like the rear screen setup. How do you record sound?

Holy crap the narration on the promo is hilarious!

Hi Fran, what do you have your camcorder set at - like frames per second? Does it matter? Will any camcorder work? Thanks - Jerry

I had assumed you were digitizing these! fantastic work.

Thats pretty cool Not saying it was easy. But the whole process is a lot simpler than I was expecting. Had no idea it was just "point camera at projection, hit record". Assuming one has the right type of flicker less projector it seems like a fairly accessible DIY process.

Back in the 80's and 90's we had these same projectors in both elementary and high school. The funny thing was that the older teachers could thread a projector in seconds, but they couldn't figure out how to get the VHS or BETA to work lol. The younger teachers couldn't thread the projector and if they could they would do it wrong and the sound would be out of sync and they never got the focus sharp, but could do the TV/VCR no problem. I was always to the rescue and very eager to help as I loved all electronics. Great video Fran, and a nice treat to walk down memory-lane!

Hey Fran, I would love to get the audio for the intro / outro song. It's my dog's favorite song, and he loves singing along. Is the song posted anywhere by itself? Thanks :)

Do you clean the film first?

Okay, what about the audio track ?

B&H were standard classroom-issue 16mm in the 1970s before VCRs became affordable. I was the "projector kid" starting in 3rd grade (1973) who knew how to thread the projector properly and was "that kid" until HS in the early 1980s when we started using VCRs. There was an entire department in our large SoCal school district (Garden Grove School District) which had a huge library of films which were shuttled between the dozens of schools in the district.

Ah, the avoidance of burned biscuits. Always a worthwhile endeavor. Cine-tastic!

Back in the day I was always looking for an EIKI projector, never found one. Jealous! I did buy a pallet of two dozen Bell & Howell 16mm sound projectors for $10 at a government auction. Same auction I bought a pallet of 12 Tektronix scopes for $20 and sold them to engineering students at my college for $100/each. They don't make auctions like they used to in the old days. :)

I would of believed Fran used a telecinema device they used in tv stations to transfer film to any other format

Cool that is so Mutch simpler then i was expecting :) do you plug the audio from the projector straight into the camera or record it separate ?

Another cooking triumph with Fran:) Thank you!

I have a vintage GE oven in my kitchen with some of the same features shown in the film.

maybe a dumb question but is the audio track on the same film? Like a magnetic strip along the edge or is the audio on a sperate tape you have to sync and play alongside?

Very interesting and informative! Nicely done.

No burnt biscuits, no tears.... oh my!!! Great video Fran, I started my career as a Telecine Colorist in Tribeca so of particular interest to me. Cheers, and stay groovy!

You taught me a lot today. Thanks for that.

Impressive, but for 8mm film most people would get better results with less effort using something like a WolverinePro, that takes a high resolution picture of every frame of a movie and saves it as an mp4 video.

Thank you for sharing this, it was the first thing that came to mind, but everyone else was either scanning the film directly or going frame by frame in a modded projector where I was looking..

Most wonderful creation Fran.

Awesome. I love these old movies. Especially all the old machining and production films. You should put out a call for old film reels to digitize. You could make a whole channel around that. The copyrights for them should be expired if not public domain anyway.

I’m a sucker for vintage educational films. I might have just found a new hobby.

Thats Awesome Fran. I did over 12 hours of my dads home movies years ago. Its a lot of work. But worth it.

Hmmm… I’m thinking maybe Ozzy Osbourne’s song “No More Tears” was actually about biscuits.

How do you know that projector's case is parallel to the lens optical path? Is that a qualified leveling surface? The same could asked about the camera. Is there a optical way to align everything?

I understand that much of the legislation documentation held in the houses of Parliament is written on Vellum (calf skin if memory serves). Apparently it doesn't degrade like paper does, or something like that.

Very impressive Fran! Your attention to detail yields perfect results! I love the vellum use for the screen. I was thinking of using the light diffuser sheet(s) from a trashed LCD flat panel TV when I do my setup, it's only for my old 8 and super 8 films though.

Really great. I admit, even with a 5 blade I can't get flickerless on any of my video cameras. Is there a secret on the camera side? (I worked for years on the Videola transfer machine.)

I'm wanting to do this with an 8mm projector but I want to eliminate the screen component and instead use a mirrorless/shutterless camera with a macro lens to point right into the gate (possibly at a right angle using a diagonal first-surface mirror). My idea is to drive the projector at a slower speed with an external motor and reduction gear and rig the camera's "shutter" release to be triggered from the camera mechanism so that the whole rig can run at arbitrary speed. The projector's lamp would be replaced by a much lower wattage lamp and it would shine onto a diffuser behind the film plane. This will of course result in thousands of still images but they can be processed into video and also, keeping those images means that any present or future AI upconversion can be performed. Could also pull a stunt with a modified flatbed scanner but that would be incredibly slow.

I'd put some black card on the table before the vellum screen. Eliminate a bit of ghosting on the screen.

Time to change the projector light Anyone remember that catch phrase in school? Don't burn the film!

Those old Kodak low profile auto load projectors never failed to thread film properly. Never bunched up.

i think my grandparents had the J303 for possibly most of the time they lived in the house they bought in 1954, and spent the rest of their lives with.

Some content doesn't age well. Some content started off kind of bad. The up selling ovens stuff seems to check both boxes. The sexism is so thick it nearly drips off it onto the floor. I really like the explanation of the setup. You didn't mention the matching between lens types and the distances to the screen. There was no pin cushion effect so clearly you have that correct in your setup too.

Those old adds, she will love her new oven... Great stuff, couldn't get away with now. How times have changed, for the better on the whole but to far and to woke now. Nice video thank you

I'm voting for an eighth day of the week called Franday. Anyone second?

Fran. Is the camera you are using capturing at 4K or 1080 resolution?

don't matter biscuits are going to be burnt... they always do it's a family tradition ;D

This analogue films and storage is 70 years old and it is still possibly to use it. I have a lot of digital files that I can't open. They are less then 10 years old.

I know what you mean I did my film and videos images transfers 15yrs worth took me 6 months everyday glad to be done with that

The wife dreams about baking biscuits? Sure she does..

I'm wondering how the sound is transferred 🤔. Is it a direct connection from the projector to the camera or did you have to jury rig an interface circuit? It's nice to see such nice equipment being well cared for.

She burns those biscuits again and it's a spanking, which may have been her plans all along.

thx, i love 16 mm films and you explane cclear how to copie in video ...

great tips like see you did small size the smaller the screen size the sharper the image

Amazing, fascinating, & totally cool Frannie! When I was a kid we had 3 stooges flicks (16mm) in the auditorium, & it was awesome. I always wondered if they were shot in 35mm then reduced to 16mm for schools/smaller venues. They wouldn't have used 16mm films for the big theaters right?

Hello Fran, how do you transfer the audio portion?

Not at all what I was expecting, but fascinating none the less! Thanks again, Fran. Your channel is fantastic!

Fran...a couple of points...normal 16mm portable projectors often use 3-wing shutters, not 4 (never seen one with 4)...larger "pedestal" type projectors would go to a 2-wing shutter to get the light. As to 2-perf claw versus 3-perf claw. 2-perf has the advantage that is more accommodating for shrunken film. 3-perf has the advantage that less stress is put on each perforation as the force is distributed over 50% more perforations. I have seen both work very well. High end projectors like Kinoton, Eastman 25 will have intermittent type movements. Eiki tried to use an intermittent but it was never as good as their claw movement. As for lensing, the Eiki's lens size is not an issue for either quality or light throughput. Most professional 16mm projectors use the 42.7mm diameter lens barrel that Eiki also used. The exact same lenses used in professional 35mm could be used in an Eiki (Schneider Optics, one of the preeminent cinema lens manufacturers made an adapter to be able to use their Cinelux line of lenses in Eiki mounts and one would have to use a collar if they wanted to put that into an Bell and Howell. ISCO, the other preeminent professional projection lens manufacturer also made lenses for the Eiki mount, including their incredible Vario-Kiptaron 20-60mm (by far, the best projection lens ever made for 16mm...even better than fixed EF lenses). If you ever get the chance to get your hands on the ISCO Vario-Kiptaron 20-60 (and it has to be that model and EF or you'll get the "coke-bottle" A/V type), it will be worth it. And, it can be adapted to your B&H with a collar.

Very interesting video! Where did you get the split reel?

hi do you know about 16mm audio film zonal made some

I wished I had kept the Singer Insta-load Graflex I once had. However now, I need another 16mm projector like I need another hole in.....

Hi Fran. Thanks so much for sharing your technique. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on how you eliminated a potential hotspot from the projector bulb since your camera is shooting directly in the line of sight of the camera through the rear-projection screen. I’ve been trying for several months to build a telecine system that will allow me digitize 8mm & 16mm films, and I finally hit on something that has great potential to work. My projector does not have a 5-blade shutter, but I can compensate with my digital camera by adjusting the shutter speed and ISO. I’m also rear-projecting the image but after it leaves the projector and bounces off a front-surface mirror to the screen. If it weren’t for the darned hotspot, it would be a very reliable system. I’ve tried diffusing the bulb (which is a much lower wattage than the original) but that still doesn’t solve the problem. Really curious how you got around the issue.

Fran Again you really got this down incredible. I can’t understand how it can be so perfect. Can you make a video that explains in more detail why the 24 frames per second works so well with the Japanese projector, it would really be interesting for you to explain it for us Lehman

Awesome Fran, thanks for sharing how it's done. You have magnificent equipment and the way your transfers are done is just wonderful.

Great video Fran. Do you do transfers as a service? I have a 16 mm film with optical sound I need to get transferred.

Another great video. Well thought out and well presnted. Thank you Fran!

I worked on many Eiki 16's back in the day and attended a factory training seminar. They were welcomed by the faculty for their simplistic nature of the slot load. They certainly did have their problems though.

I never thought that an electric stove would be action and adventure for women like a airplane is for men. Anyway, I've read about telecine projectors but your presentation clearly shows the shutter method used to eliminate flutter. Interesting idea using a magnifier to look for grain when focusing.

I wonder if there's a higher fidelity method to get cleaner audio off those film reels. It doesn't sound a magnetic source.

Just started using a Kodak REELZ film digitizer for 8mm and super 8 film. Results so far have been VERY good, even with some of my films that are nearly 70 years old.

I was in high school when they were trying to transition from film to video, except the video was EIAJ 1/2 inch black and white, and of course there was not comparison. Naturally today, we realize that most film transfers quite well to HD video, while NTSC video is, well, stuck in (low) Standard Definition.

I find many of your videos very sober, and it is about the former craftsmanship. With emphasis on past! Because the craftsmanship all over the world is being lost! one day we will suffer the disadvantages of that. Healthy and Friendly Greetings from NL Rob

How do you accomadate the 24fps vs 30fps? Do you do this is POST? Another video on POST would be very welcome. At least by me . . . Keep up the good work !

The quality of your transfers is amazing! The picture is steady and the light is even all the way across. Most of your transfers are apparently of some really well kept film too; I see hardly any scratches, dust or damage. Excellent work!

Thanks for putting in the effort to archive these. Im of the post-film generation, but I know my school had a film vault, I always wondered what was stored in there. the film isnt getting any younger, so Im glad your archiving what you can whilst the machines are still working and the film is intact. I find it very interesting, I have audio recordings almost 50 years old that have gone from tape to cassette, transferred to CD, compressed to MP3, then DVD, HDD, USB Flash, and now live on SSD. I can be fairly sure in 30 years time, I'll be able to pull those files up on my bionic brain implant and still hear those recordings. not so with this stuff, if you dont have a clockwork machine and a whole room to watch it in, assuming the ravishes of time haven't dissolved the data, the data is gone. Archive it, so It can be remembered. even if it is as archaic as tears over burnt cookies from an inferior oven. Thats kinda what makes it interesting. Its fast and easy to make backups of these recordings, CD's sent to relatives, RAID arrays, a flash drive in a safe, many redundant copies. its just oral family history, but pretty cool to hear your grandfather at your own age making jokes n cheeky innuendos at your grandmother, when youve only known them as sick old folk. they were hip young things to at one stage. I particularly like my grandmother had her 'stern rebuke' voice down pat, but layered in with a schoolgirl giggle. I wonder how much other family history has been lost, Im just lucky I come from a long line of nerds. my nieces and nephews (maybe own children) will know the sound of their great grandparents flirting. puts the phrase "a glimmer in your fathers eye" into new perspective.

A very interesting video. I have a number of family 16mm films to transfer. One is of my parent’s wedding in 1946 and my grandfather’s sailing on the maiden voyage of the Queen Mary. I have a Specto type A projector made in the town, Windsor UK, where I live. It has double sprockets so only runs double perforated film.

What an amazing fuss ! I've only videoed one film. I used a bog standard Bell & Howell and a Sony CCD V100. I didn't get flicker (due to the Sony camera not making flickery videos) and the result was perfectly acceptable. The guy I did it for just asked how I'd got rid of the sound of the projector ! No, I didn't waste time levelling the projector. No I didn't waste time levelling the camera. No, I didn't waste time aligning the camera or projector to be perpendicular to the screen - all three of these issues are 'taken care of' by having the camera and projector light paths as close to each other as possible - this deals with all errors including keystone. But I did connect projector sound to the recorder audio input. Something you didn't mention ! didn't use back projection either - it's not as good as front projection as passing through the screen will blur the image.

Hi Fran....glad to hear that you endorse the Bell & Howell. I have a 2592 which comes with a remote stop action and speakers built into the cover with places for extra projector lamp and exciter lamp as well. Have many 16mm films bought from previous collectors whom have passed on now. Lots of Hollywood feature films, Warner Bros cartoons and tv shows which are 30 mins in length. Some of the tv shows are from the 1950's including commercials that aired then. It is a fun hobby !!!

i started my first job as an AV Tech in the 80s and was trained to repair B&H TQ1 TQ2 and TQ3 projectors .They always had an issue with a cracking main drive worm gear that had to be replaced with a nylon one.this would involve complete disassembly and re syncing the shutter with the drive chain.I always thought the EiKi NT! and ST1 machines were far better and easier to maintain

This was super helpful to see

It's good all these old films are geting archived an shared on RU-vid I love watching these old films shows how much people cared for there product an the life of everything not so much anymore I like to try this I'm the fire if I ever get ahold of old 16mm films

Great video Fran, thanks! What video camera are you using, and are there any special settings you need on the camera? The end result works really well.

worked on Very many of those B&H projectors. 1550 and 1560s were tuff!

Eiki used to make an early CCD internal camera transfer unit. Rare but the quality back then was long pre HD… Beautiful projectors, both.

That's a nice setup!! I have a Bell & Howell 1580 and a couple of Telex Instaload XLs. I prefer slot loaders. The 1580 and one of the Telexes have some issues that need attention. It's been way too long since I've watched anything from my small 16mm collection, and even longer since I've added anything to the collection. You may inspire me to rectify one or more of those situations.

I wanted to comment on your show about the 60 Hz electromechanical line frequency meter. You'd mentioned the damping mechanism early. Since these meters were mounted directly on, or very close to generators, you had to isolate them pretty well from mechanical vibration. Vibrating reeds were used for a number of other applications as well. The old Motorola MOTRAC vhf radios used actual harmonica reeds to both generate and decode the audio frequency PL (private line) tones. The two modules that did this were the Vibrasender and the Vibrasponder. Very cool, very reliable technology for decades.