My Thoughts On The "Official" Demons List 

Hi, I’m Mullsy and I am a leader at the demons list. Here’s what I see, you’re saying the list would be much better if it were full with all of Sunixs versions of bloodbath, ldm copies and bug fixed versions of the exact same level. Any decent player can rebeat and upload the same level multiple times until the list is full of nothing but that one level, it would be a disaster. For example if thatJake rebeats and uploads sonic wave all of the 10 times he’s beaten or whatever, the list would be full of sonic waves, and he would get list points, for ALL of those sonic waves, since there would be a sonic wave remake at spot 5,6,7,8,9 etc etc. The list would be a catastrophe, way too many loopholes, and no where near as reliable as it is today. Of course, the demonslist is open to criticism, and we’re happy that people want to talk about it, but this is just one idea too far with not enough thought put into the implications of what this scenario would entail. Edit: Ok, so I just watched your bit on the Endlevel situation. Yes, we knew Endlevel was a hacker and banned him for it. We couldn’t release the information yet because of the chance of the pastebin getting leaked, and we would have had no way to spot someone using it. Once the community put pressure on us, we reluctantly unbanned him, for the sheer purpose of buying time. We needed time for our hack defrauding experts to find a way to break the pastebin, and make sure it is a reliable method to detect someone using the pastebin. Unbanning Endlevel wasn’t ignorance or incompetence, it was disaster control. Quite frankly, even when the pastebin was censored on toshs video, which he got from someone who had been banned from the list team for reasons I won’t get into, the uncensored version even got leaked after that and we’re still not sure how. Luckily at that point we had already cracked the pastebin, thanks to the time we bought from unbanning Endlevel.

I've actually never thought much about this subject before watching this video. I assume the reason that the List Mods only rank levels that are star rated is because rated levels have more of an official seal of approval from Robtop. In the video you said that the demons list shouldn't have a "quality filter" associated with it if its goal is simply to rank the *hardest* levels regardless of quality, but really I don't think the star rating rule is there as a quality filter, but simply as a way to ensure that the levels on the list are an official part of the game approved by RobTop as opposed to a bunch of random noobs' impossible levels. I know I said the word "official" a lot in this comment, but you said that the only way to make something in the game official is for it to be endorsed by RobTop, so really when Rob rates a level he is giving that level his endorsement and making it, essentially, an "official" part of the game. Great video though as usual, I enjoyed watching it and seeing what you had to say about the demons list since it's a really iffy establishment lol.

Did you just say Generic should be on the list

I'll just say this. There has always been debate over how hard certain levels are compared to others, and since difficulty is always subjective in a way, there's nothing we can really do about this. People shouldn't see the list as a 100% accurate one, but as a point of reference. We try to get as many solid opinions about level placements from reliable and unbiased players who have experience with the said levels, and from there we do our best to place them as well as we can. So, as an example, a player that has beaten Subsonic who's considering going for SH would check the list, and be like "oh, according to the list this is easier than subsonic so i can defo do this" then once they beat sh, they'll think "wow this was harder than subsonic for me" they'd tell a list mod that they found it harder, why they found it harder, etc. and we'll take note of it. That's how a player should react. Unfortunately most people like to react this way: "wow ok this was harder than sub for me lol wtf the list is inaccurate". Like I said, the list never tried to be 100% accurate because obviously that's not the case and won't ever be, but we try to make it *as accurate as we can*, so people actually get a point of reference when they wonder how hard something is. About the list being "official" or not, well technically it isn't really official since Robtop is by no means involved in it, but you can't deny that it is a reference, and whenever someone wonders how hard something is, or how many extremes someone's beaten, they'll go on pointercrate. While it is not "official", it is the most well known list of that kind. About unrated levels not being on the list, you called luq's response to your tweet "lame". But in the end he's kinda right. Just imagine how much work it would be for all of us to add every single unrated extreme demon to the list accurately. There would be so much more debate over the list and because of all those newly included levels, the game would become MUCH harder to keep up with for good players. And, believe it or not, we all have an irl life, important stuff to take care of on a personal side, etc. and the list would overall just become a huge mess. How would we judge whether a level should be added or not? Should we add impossible levels? Should we add any random ass layout some unknown guy made solely to be on the list? In a way, levels needing to be rated makes the list less accessible, and yes some levels such as HP and CP don't get on the list cause of that. But it's either none of the unrated levels, or all the unrated good levels AND all the trash levels people would make to be on the list. Just not happening. The game would become much harder and it would cause a huge mess. About the shit levels getting on the list, well there's nothing we can do about it. We never encouraged creators to make list demons, if they want to make a shit and hard level solely to get on the list, it's their choice and theres nothing we can do about it. As a list editor, there's a lot of levels I would love to see gone from the list, but that's just how it is.

dance massacre is the hardest demon and should be at the top of the list >:((((

Tbh the main kick in the balls for me is that people want lvls rated just because they are hard (hyper paracosm ofc lol). I agree with ur unrated level rule but only under certain circumstances.

Ok so first off, we appreciate the criticism as it helps to make the list better. Second thing i wanna say is that a lot of the points you made weren't very well thought through, mainly the one about unrated levels but thats been covered like 100 times already just in the comments so i wont go over that again. Next thing is the endlevel situation, the demons list team was run by many different people back then, since that situation the list is under completely new management by those who we (the mods and helpers) have deemed the best to lead the list forward so this point is kinda invalidated. As for the 'official' thing, its just a word used on the website bro like if it bugs you that much we can remove it but i don't see the point honestly, this is regarded by the majority of the community to be the official list for extreme demon difficulty and we always consult players who've beaten the demons in question before we place them, and the same goes for when they're being moved in the future, no other list is held in the same regard. Next point is that you can't blame the list for the levels on it being shit, i agree that most of the list demons are shit cos they are but like for real that's not our fault, blame rob for that we didn't rate them lol, so basically what i'm saying is that you should've probably put some more thought into these points cos at the end of the day there's a lot of loopholes and shit in them. ayaya

WHErwin: Hyper Paracosm will Never get Featured Robtop: Epic rated, Extreme Demon, 1st position on Featured, rated less than 1 week after this video.

its a *demons* list. and if you dislike that the list is often viewed as official why do you want us to add unrated stuff. why not make your own list

It's called the demons list for a reason, they have to be demons. Levels cannot be demons without being rated, therefore cannot be added to the demons list. This list was also made to document the hardest levels you can beat with a reward of some sort, not just the pride that comes with it. Sure, Wcropolix was a really cool looking and hard level, I give props to anyone who beat it or tries to beat it, but since rob wont rate it, it's not going to give anything valuable to the player.

I believe that, as the name implies, the list is a list of demons. It would be extremely difficult to impossible to keep track of the vastness of unrated levels. Robtop’s rating system is the most readily available basis to judge a levels position on the list (and even that has exceptions, being hack updated levels). Should the list change their requirements to all levels, it would be mass chaos, and in my opinion, a disaster. Don’t get me wrong. I believe there are indeed countless levels that deserve to be on the list, but the project would simply not work out, as there would be too many loopholes in the ‘set rules’. I believe that the list is doing a great thing for the struggling game. It provides a structured list to base player skill and level difficulty, showing the epitome of various sectors of the game. However, as you stated, the list is by no means “official”. Robtop has not hired any of the moderators, and has no input on the system. However, I think you should view these people for what they are: a group of volunteers trying to make a difference in the game they love. Yes, they will sometimes make mistakes (though I truly believe they had the end level situation under control) but that is because they are merely players, like the rest of us. I believe we should respect their initiative and their creation, and continue to enjoy their masterpiece that is the list. So yeah, that’s what I think. I believe your criticisms have some basis, but are mostly irrelevant to the purpose of the list.

If the levels were unrated the list would be dominated by "silent" levels

I barely care about the demon list. When Icdx fell of out if the list was one of the few times I cared. It’s sad to see the the list filling up with trash. There so many new extreme demons nowdays that are being released and players who beat them in a day so I really don’t have a care unless it looks great. I find that a problem, good levels need to be extremly hard and overhyped to get its’ deserved attention. Like Temple of Destiny, even tho its’ rating nobody cared about it, it’s better than most of the list combined. I know everyone is glorifying 1.9 but one the things I missed from the time is that when an extreme demon was verified it was something special now it’s just meh. That’s is one reason I think it’s good that pro players quit. It will make the levels on the more special to complete and also the list will not be filled up so quick. About G-News, I thought of a few days ago. G-News is pretty boring. It’s just Bla Bla Bla... extreme demons... Bla Bla Bla demon list... Bla Bla Bla some random pro. It’s only intresting when he talks about the good levels and creators.

I was litteraly watching Johny Sins when you uploaded this.

I'd really like to see a "best levels" list,it would be pretty cool to see what criteria make a level good and how the community reacts to those criteria

0:00 back on track

I agree with most of your points, except for the “unrated levels should be added” point. I can just see many things that can go wrong if something like that happens. Anyways, let’s all remember this is not an “official” list yet, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad list.

I actually never knew that you would have to compare people with the same graphics card for the orb pulses, can you tell me where you got this information? I never saw it ANYWHERE, even the first video which stated it, so a little information about how you gained this knowledge would be nice.

Man i wish your uploads were more consistent.i always look forward to your videos.

thanks for explaining the endlevel situation

The legend has uploaded

Point 1: while this is TECHNICALLY the truth, that doesn't mean shit about the actual list. Point 2: No where on the site or discord does it say to try to make a level on the demons list. They do indirectly encourage bad levels, but that's not their fault, any list about difficulty would, like it or not. Point 3: There are literally hundreds of unrated extremes and insanes. Like it or not, having to put in THAT much more effort is simply unreasonable. It'd be a fair point if there were like 50 or so unrated extremes but there's FAR more. Point 4: I honestly have to agree with this one. They should've just came to the truth about it right away. Point 5: They could have released it publicly yeah. However, your point about there being a "sizeable amount" of cheated records on the list, there are THOUSANDS of records submitted, it's only normal for a mistake every once and a while. Point 6: No. That is simply a retarded idea. Not everyone can get equipment to do that and they already accept tons of legit non-mic records. That's basically forcing someone to show their voice even if they're uncomfortable, it's also impractical because of how many records there are submitted compared to the number of moderators for screenshare.

Oh, how I long for the days when the list looked like that

3:06 how funny is that all of your examples got rated despite being “impossible” for them to get rated

im interested in this a lot and i support your points about the demons list because levels like thinking space are not rated and could take the no.1 spot

If rated levels could get on the demonlist, most of it would be hacked impossible levels. And if hacked levels would be excluded, Zodiac would be excluded.

Next video My thoughts on the whewrin official every level to exist including deleted and unreleased ones list

It was endorsed by robtop and if I’m not mistaken stadust said he was working with a very special person to import it into geometry dash. also that movie trailer thing was a meme

8:59 LOL the video that was recommended for me was Woodkid vs. God Eater: The Grand Finale

I think that the best way to solve the issue of bad levels being on the list and good levels not being on the list is to have a vote amongst the list mods (or even the in-game mods) that decides wether or not the level is rate worthy. If it isn't, then it won't get on the list. If it is, then it can.

There should be a top 50 rated and unrated demonlist

The list is perfectly fine imo

the hardest demon is obviously stereo madness

Well I think that applying the clicks in video would not work as someone can easily figure out how to edit it in but the screensharing probably would work for hackers

they should make a list with the best extreme demons

2:06 Replace Knobbelboy's youtube icon with basically any youtuber with his skill level (or near Riot's) and you get pretty much any of those youtuebrs ever

imo, instead of moving to the extremes of only including rated levels or including all levels, maybe instead every level should have to be approved by list mods, a system close to robtop's rating system but more reliable since it's managed by more people and who are more involved in the community. Even if it's not perfect it's definitely a better idea than the two alternatives. In fact maybe we should stop paying attention to rating altogether and just go with that system for the whole game

Sorry if I’m dumb, but can people not just TAS and seamlessly cheat?

This is that place on the internet where geometry dash is taken as serius as nuclear bomb XD

it does say "demons" and in order to get demon rating is for the level to get rated.

Not a list moderator here, but another reason that unrated levels don't get put on the list is probably so that a level that isn't rated extreme demon if it does get rated isn't on the list, and also nearly every unrated level would have to be played in order to find levels difficult enough to be on the list, and there are probably more unrated levels than players!

Conical Deppression: *S n e a k 1 0 0*

7:27 we may get way better at detecting hax over the update right? Wrong. Cuz the list mods are dumb.

9:52 cancer wavespam in the background

4:10 Mario odyssey music yay

I think to be on the demon list, levels should follow these guidelines: Must have a proven legitimate verification. Must be over 35 seconds. And although I mostly agree with WHERWin, a level should not have to be rated, but the mods should pass it off as good enough. So no layouts or challenges, but i dont see why levels like Hyper Paracosm, Death Corridor Z or Crimson Planet cant be on the list. But nothing like the Galaxy Collapse Wave or Copyables

My theory is that WHErwin hates the demonslist because they put a Lemons level on it

I mean, I’d say ‘officially verified’ unrated levels. As in, no hacks and shit. That way you won’t have it filled with impossible levels and all that

I Know You Don't Like Most Top 50 Demons But Do You These Extreme Demons Off The List? Talking About: Temple Of Destiny Es Dilar Nos Allegiance Night Party Edit: I'm Talking To WHErwin

Crimson Planet is now rated. This video is outdated in that some of the example(s) of unrated demons in this video. RobTop is now more active in the community and I hope this is a sign on 2.2 releasing soon. Otherwise good points.

what level is that at the end?????

oh hey that’s us

I just fucking agree

6:29 4. They could have released a blurred out version of it and still banned him 5. They could have just not released the "stuff" and kept him banned and not let the community take the lead. (#5 is the best option in my opinion)

lol i only see the demon list as a way for players that are good but not recognized to finally get the recognition they deserve

Unofficial opinion? While it might sound wrong to acknowledge it as "official", it's considered to be like that bc that group of players are the ones that agreed with all the placements. It's like saying that a tier list in a fighting game should be made by the creators of the game, and we know that the official tier lists are made by a group of competitive players. But even if it's considered official, it all depends on the player's mind. Arbitrary list? Well it's arbitrary if beating top demons isn't the reason why you play this game. The demon list is mainly for "demon slayers" (and players obsessed with their level being there). I don't even play extreme demons but I know that a lot of other people do. It's arbitrary for you, but not for other people. Unrated levels on the list? Time to see that old af level made by XxXplayerPROXxX at top 0 because an update broke it and now it's literally impossible. "Oh hello, I'm a HFTF player and Khan is my main. Tier list? What's that? I just play this game for fun" "Tf dude use Petshop" It all depends on who is playing the game and, well, those are your thoughts and you're free to make whatever you want with them, although I disagree with some of them but, again, those are your thoughts after all.

Someone makes a 5 minute shit straightfly level and it goes on the list

2:09 o shit wuts this game called (if it is one)

Hyper Paracosm got rated

First major video by you that I disagree on, mostly with adding random unrated shit to the list, but still a really good video as usual nontheless

The hardest demon is back on track

I absolutely agree

Mullsy and other people already explained it, but i want to make a point over this situation. Certanly you really misunderstood a basic thing in the game, the list it's based on DEMONS not levels, that's why the list just put levels that are rated, because only the rated ones have the demon difficulty. Just as easy as that.

Some extreme demons are good, like spacial rend, arctic arena, and Aurora, but most are bad af

I Loath Hackers But I Didn't Know Hackers Would Take It That Far

*rip g-news*

Remove all list levels and make the entire list the HELL circles series by dogkingnether tbh

7:03 Is that...my icon?

Disclaimer should ALWAYS be at the start. NOT THE END!

not gonna lie, the idea of having unrated demons on the list would be pretty good, but adding them would simply spark more conflict as other players with shitty levels would simply make a shitty 5-second level with near-impossible gameplay and say "hey add this to the demons list" the demon rating is kind of required, not because of the design, but because of the gameplay. pretty sure robtop wouldn't rate a level with 3-block walls just because it looks feature worthy.

1bb, 2bb, red bb, blue bb, niggacropolis wave by blassbfg, crimson notagoodlevel by trueunepic, & singularity

divine demon by wherwin and more

Its really simple - cover up the key points and url

love your voice and accent

TOP 10 SCARIEST GEOMETRY DASH DEMONS

Gamma is harder than Plasma Pulse Finale and Special Rend.

well the list now is even worse ;-;

First you complain about demons on the list being bad, in a hardest demons list rant, like it was anyone from the list staff's fault, and then you complain about list editors not including unrated levels, with a shit load of bad ones, now what is the point?

Btw 8:39= no clip

Hyper paracosm

Paroxsysm isn’t bad deco, but the gameplay...

True dat

But I want to play hard levels not good looking levels lol who cares about deco

It doesnt really matter though , i mean it’s just a game

electrodynamix is pretty hard

it's called a DEMONlist, not a LEVELlist for a reason lol. if it's not rated it's not demon.

I think the Demon list is a bit contradictory

2:05 that was a joke but ok

Demons list is Rotten Tomoatoes of Geometry Dash xD

My simple explanation to the star rating argument: a level needs to be rated to be a demon. And it's the demons list. Therefore, non rated/non demon levels need not be added

lel hyper did get rated tho

The list is false, Square Adventure isn’t on it.

Oh no... Edit: Okay I was expecting some drama bs but this is pretty good and I agree with everything. And solving the "If we put unrated levels it's too much work" problem is as easy as collaborating with the Unrated Demonlist.

He basically just shit on the demons list the whole time and said that Hyper Paracosym is a shit level

This is so sad

Honestly, I see where you're coming from, but I really do disagree.

#UnbanFPSBypass

*e*

3:36 Ok then silent circles would be first. Are you happy with this possible future?

bACk On TRacK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD