They consistently homogenized damage and wall carry so that the characters who focused on those would be worse. Remember when Nina and Lee wall carry actually meant something? Or when Paul and Kazuya's explosive damage was unique? Good times.
Tbh that's partially due to how much everyone complained about how Paul and Kazuya did more damage than everyone else. Reddit scrubs would cry and beg every day for their damage to be more like everyone else's, lol
When did Kazuya did explosive damage outside of CH D/f2 PEWGF? In terms of wall damage too, there were a load of characters who did equal or more damage than him.
@@maxpayne420 explosive =/= big. Just means damage coming out fast. Condition for a round BOOM ELECTRIC. Same with Paul, play normal, use strings, spacing, BOOM DEATHFIST.
@@slithermayne2218 Some characters ACTUALLY needed that combo damage BADLY tho. Yoshi from season 1 to season 3 has seen some serious improvements to how consistent he is in actually taking rounds and he's not in as dire of struggles as he was in season 1. His low damage and shit frames wasn't very justified in season 1 considering he's not a pressure character or anything and didn't have the same opportunities for launches like everyone else in season 1 he also was ZERO threat to anyone who opted to stay on the ground so he couldn't enforce any of his setups while BEING a defensive setup character. I can say yoshi is finally rewarded for getting in on people now at this point when before you had to work absurdly hard to take rounds.
Quarrel they nerfed moment to attract new players since it’s the hardest concept to grasp. It also makes the game more exciting for casual viewers because it prioritizes more offensive play. They dont want players to run away they want them to get trapped in vortexes and risk their lives trying to duck a hell sweep because why sidestep when u CANT
They’re butchering the gameplay quality of the series by doing that though. Casuals don’t need handicaps, what they need is a tutorial on how to actually play the game. A tutorial that teaches them punishment, movement, frame data etc. This nonstop catering to casuals by simplifying the combat is watering down......well, everything really.
@@awooga-gunga-israel it is about movement only top lvl players like speedkicks can really give input on this , you will see scrubs in comments who havent even gotten out of orange ranks so dont worry bro, tekken is still all about movement so dont let random scrubs on yt comments try and tell you otherwise.
They are doing this on purpose. Tekken has now become a spectators game more than it is a players game. The game needs to be volatile and exciting to watch as well as easy for beginners. That´s the businessmodel and it is working on that front.
It can only work up to a certain degree. Once you pass a certain threshold then it just ends up sabotaging everything. Water down the game too much and more high level players will lose interest and quit. As a result tournaments become less interesting and less hype for spectators.
@@MasterRavenClan Exactly. Watering down the game might give them more short term profit, but for the long term health of the game that's definitely not the right way to go. Pro players will just quit and the scene will slowly die off completely. I'm sure that's not what Bamco wants. But they don't see it.
I pretty much agree with everything you had to say. Tekken 7 has done so much to make characters not able to play "Tekken." Season 3 just put Tekken 7's "bs" into overdrive. Nerfing poking and movement, then buffing combo damage and wall carry. Then adding launchers at the wall(wall bounce mechanic). It's clear someone on the balance team is trying to move this game away from neutral and into caveman, gorilla gameplay.
@ライト and yet people were getting tekken god prime status in about 2 days playing a character they've never used before because they're basically all the same now
@@jarealjuicy No they aren't. None of the Season 3 changes had made the game any easier for casuals, nor has it made the game any less challenging for the pros.
But you saw how people acted about that shit lol, people would shit their pants on reddit daily about how Paul does more damage than everyone else and how he should be brought in line in that area. The internet scrub community is partially responsible for the homogenization of combo damage, they just like to pretend they're not
Same with Raven and her combo damage in season 3. They’ve buffed her mostly since the game has been out, but she’s dropping on the tier list because everyone does her combo damage and wall carry now.
MusicCityLove yeah as a master raven main it’s pretty disheartening to see my character get less and less unique, which is also making her less and viable since she used to be high risk high reward. now it’s turning into high risk with mediocre reward compared to characters that already have low risk, with increasing rewards
@@bigc122 Additionally what every Maven player requested in the post the devs themselves asked and they ignored btw, was to buff her hitbox, which isn't really any change to her frames, it was just simple hitbox issues that leads to round losses/matches for yourself.
its like a different team does the patch. Miguel SAV df2 was buffed in one patch and it was basically safe on block due to pushback and then in other patch they tough: you know what? lets remove the pushback and make it high risk.
@@cosmedcarton Miguel SAV df2 had pretty irritating pushback but in a game where we can have unpunishable deathfists, Heihachi f,f+2, tip range Jin lows, etc. it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Miguel was still potentially punished for a lot of damage by opponents who kept their punishment game sharp. Then came Season 3 where they nerfed the pushback to being non-existant and the move is now objectively a weak move. A super sidesteppable, stance required launcher that does have high crushing, albeit only in the first few frames, which is now basically launch punishable by many characters. What fucking reason does a stance-required launcher need to be launch punishable?
I always said tekken is not TRUE 3d it is 2d and a half. The side and general movement isnt sufficient for this game to be played 3d full potential. Tekken 4 tekken 5 and tekken 5 dr were 3d fighting games, tekken 4 being the "most" 3d . Tekken needs to get that movement, strategic, tactile play back. Currently tekken rewards scrubby and spammy play and punishes honest play too much. That needs to be reversed.
jinxfire it had some property issues like infinite wall combos and the North Korean Backdash, but it focuses on poking and movement and limits juggles.
@@Hillthugsta Everything in it was awesome... except actually playing it. Revisionist historians started claiming it was the best one sometime a few years ago.
@@zangana3052 T5 movement lowkey sucked, I can't lie. Tekken movement has never been on the Virtua Fighter level, but what it lacks in movement it makes up for with mid/low game.
Yeah, lateral movement gets more and more useless with every iteration. The hitbox garbage is pretty bad too- stomps connecting when you've sidewalked to a character's 3 or 9 o'clock. Evasive moves and strings tracking 180 degrees. Game is desperate to become 2d.
Yeah I agree this game should be lessening the damage, I believe low parry should be a bound rather than a launcher. Tekken really only gets truly fun in tight neutral poking situations for me at least, tekken 7 has the worst walls I've ever seen in fighting games these walls are side switching, move turning, if it isn't a flat wall it it gets slippery.
yes they are buffing the damage of all characters so basically now the fight goes two directions. 1. back and forth with poking and players are very focused or 2. you hit one juggle early and chance are good you will hit your second one. Lately i have so much perfects like 10% but also loose like this often or i have fights that go down to the last poke.
I find Tekken most fun when I get huge damage off of my opponent guessing wrong. That said, I do agree that the way walls work is inconsistent garbage. You'd try to tailspin off a side splat and a character might just get a regular wall hit and fall flat.. other times, they'd tailspin away from the wall so you can finish the juggle. It's a random mess.
Movement buff would help dvj and heihachi, but not kazuya... He had movement during tag and yet was unpopular in tournaments... Speed kick said that he needs some new moves and I agree
His movelist has been nerfed since TEKKEN 6! How many moves Kazuya lost since coming back in TEKKEN 4! TT2was a good blend! He can’t even keep out an opponent in a decent poke game WTF! I know a LOT of people don’t like Japanese people that much and it’s done to get that money from other Asian countries but DAMN!
@@khenmozhione4473 the match in this video says it all.. Arslans kazumi attacks 99% of the times lol That's kazuya, ppl don't seem to understand but needs better df1 and jab otherwise he won't be seen in tournaments
We are going to have to go back to Tekken Tag 2 at this point I know the damage output is ridiculous in that game but at least movement and decision-making is fun
I feel all of this since Season 1. This game has no movement since season 1, this game have MANY MOVES WITH TRACKING, + NO MOVEMENT since season 1, and people didn't care, everytime I said it, they just laughed at me.
A friend of mine commented, That it's basically a launch type of game now... The damage is way too much. With everyone having access to almost 90 damage on every combo it's kinda sad. And also, i thought the idea of adding 2d characters was to make them 3d, not make the game a 2d game. Lastly, Buff movement 🙃🙃🙃 you're a 3d game, and when a certain someone with a bit of authority says "Why sidestep when you can block" in a 3d game, on its own, it's very disheartening. In the next patch Tekken7 will be more launcher based, and a full on crouch block, and standing guard only game. Cause why sidestep right? Tekken IS Movement NOT damage NOT supposed to be easy And most certainly NOT a 2d game P.S: Sorry for the Rant 😅😅😅 from the Philippines by the way sorry i needed to vent 😂😂😂
When people see Tekken I would like them to see amazing movement and the 3rd dimension being used, imagine you're someone who doesn't know anything about Tekken seeing that, I feel like it would be very special. I think what they wanted with the 2D characters was to help people from other games get into Tekken. I just don't like when you start making the game easier so you get more people because the game will lose it's internal meaning just like Tekken is losing movement, you lose movement you lose Tekken. Seems like TTT2 really captivated the hardcore community of Tekken. I agree with your post 100% :)
@@ramireini Thanks... I mean that's what made me wanna play Tekken7. At that time, i was fascinated with the thrill of the escape out of a sidestep, the precision, and the decision making that goes into sidestepping or blocking. I mean with Tekken7, being simplified patch after patch, nerfing movement, i don't see the purpose of picking it against other fighters... But yeah imma keep playing it, just not competitively, playing tournaments in our area with players with over the top mains is just too much stress.
@@RationalMinded not gonna lie that made me crack up 😂😂😂 But putting that aside, you're completely right, with just a few more patches Tekken7 is gonna be like any other 2d fighting game in the market, which is boring 🙃🙃🙃
@@dm_blinkonce3231 It's just a joke at this point, and I honestly saw the game heading in this direction since Tekken 6. Tekken 5 movement was excellent. Every game after that, lateral movement got worst and worst, while tracking got more and more absurd. Now in T7 we have moves regularly tracking 180 degrees, or hitboxes that apparently extend toward their backside. I see it every day I play and save replays of it. We even have "Email Harada" videos showing showing the same thing. Tekken 7 is a circus but you play because no one plays the older games anymore.
I think this is the direction they went with Tekken 7. More mixups, pokes and close quarters hit exchange instead of long range and free style movement. Maybe they thought it would make the game more exciting. So, characters that were always good at poking like Law, Jack, Steve, Drag etc along with new ones like Shaheen and Kazumi have dominated the meta. The only characters that can effectively utilise movement are those with extra movement moves like Raven, Yoshi, King, Feng, Lei etc.
Hey, Speed, thank you for more than just touching on this, but actually expounding on it with not only the complaint, but proposing alternatives and potential solutions. Spelling things out for the less initiated -like me- was helpful and appreciated.
Tekken is lost. Movement, wakeups and throws are never coming back. Rage should be removed and every char should lose out on 15-20 combo damage. People complained about tag2 combo damage not realizing u have 2 life bars and millions of wakeup options while against Kazuya its now : hellsweep; get up and die. One combo: 60% gone ; get up and die. With Murray and Mishima star in charge things are never going to change we can all just hope somebody is getting fired and tekken 8 comes out soon
@@OTs-03 have u any idea how much people hate akuma? The number 1 complaint here is that this is a 2d game which nobody wants. I have no idea how u came to this stupid conclusion but tekken x sf is def the next thing in store. Why would tekken degrade themselves by collaborating with street fighter? Makes no sense
I dont like the damage increase I felt bnb combos should be around 62 to 65 harder combos 65 to 68 but now one combo does like 60% 70%+ with walls 😑 as a lars player I'm dead in 2 combos if any of my lows are blocked smh
@@bloodybutterfly7113 I played SF X Tekken on the Xbox 360. Sure they would degrade themselves, but remember, a GAME like this already happened. It's not like they NEVER did a thing like this. BTW, this was just a normal sentence I said, calm your ass down. We all hate akuma
This game hasn’t been fun for me in awhile their literally killing this franchise before our eyes. So many characters that need buffs that don’t receive them, connection issues / rage quitters not being penalized etc. I really believe there like “were gonna do what we want if you don’t like it oh well”. If players like knee , anakin, arslan, speedkicks etc said we aren’t playing this anymore maybe then they would take what we want seriously.
thats cuz its developed by an archaic japanese company. americans wouldve handled this much better because theyre so much more progressive. just look at Overwatch and how well that game is doing - theyre so progressive with how they communicate with the playerbase about everysingle change/buff/nerf that is happening and they let you play on experimental servers to test new stuff, provide feedback and they add explanations as to why they do this or that and they have their own official forums where the devs go for more feedback.... its just those old-ass archaic japanese companies that are so set in their ancient ways that are unable to keep up with modern time. hell, in 99% of Japan, you cant even pay with a credit card u have to have cash cuz they dont have the credit card checking things. that tells u enough about Japan. its a terrible place.
@@DaggerPrince Fuck off with your borderline racism. Every society has issues. You think American game companies are so progressive? They're the ones pushing the "pay to win" models with loot boxes and all that good shit. Look at Rockstar and EA--once great companies falling apart at the seams in terms of game development and look at how "progressive" their communication has been just in the last 10 years. Let me put it to you this way: corporations want your money. It doesn't matter if they're Japanese, Korean, Mexican, American, or from Mars--they just want your fucking money. They don't give a shit about you or your input.
Yea I agree, this has been a problem for so long, and unfortunately it will probably never change, at least on a side note you can avoid the db4 with delayed tech roll rofl.
I’ve been saying this since Tekken 6. Nobody listened. If you play DR then T6 you can easily notice the trend away from movement and poking to 50/50s into high damage. This has been a trend for quite some time.
I came from playing tk3 at high level the last 8 years to tk7 and it was a nightmare. The poking and punishment game was so different and the movement completely restricted. In tk3 everyone was moving around like hell and we all go for whiff or counter hits. Punishment on block was just too weak and that was good times. Only certain characters had good 50:50 in certain situations. Now everyone has it and everyone has big damage. Most of them feel the same.
From playing for twenty years I agree with everything u mentioned, I would add that should apply to other characters like lars nina. Anna and many others. I can tell you there was a time when the player made that character shine and if u wanted to learn a character from a fundamental aspect of tekken u could look up holeman , only practice, ryan hart. You can also develop your self better a player through practicing the movement of the game and understanding the spacing of your jabs df1 and magic 4. Now tekken is becoming more of a 50 50 party animal high damage playstyle. I believe this is why u don't see a very fundamental player remain on top for to long. It's not about revolution of skill but rather of hand me outside to players who can get away with out putting the sweat and hardwork in learning tekken which is the greatest reward by the way but to make it more about the character rather than the player. Great video speedkicks.
That pushback on Hwo moves is a great point. That could be one of the best buffs he could get (on jabs, df1 etc.) along with improved hitboxes on u3+4 and similar problematic moves that SHOULD exist in order to counter something but actually fail to do so in reality. Honestly I would gladly accept those buffs even if they made some frames worse to balance it out. It would also help him with his throw game! They don't have to give him weird OP throw with guaranteed followup, they could make it so you can set up the throws better.
The fact they keep nerfing movement when it's the best and most interesting part of the game is fucking baffling. Put speedkicks on the goddamn dev team already
Oh man, the comment about buffing Kazuya's movement is so true. I started playing tekken competitively in tekken 7 (was a casual since tekken 5 when I was a kid). It's obvious that Kazuya's identity lies in his punishment & spacing and giving him good pokes, strings or low crushing hopkicks would make him brain dead, but whenever I face a good player who play characters like hworang or Kazumi, they usually like to be in your face just poking and even if you predict a move you can sidestep, the move still clips you and its not because the move tracks well. if you wanted to Korean backdash away or even do a backdash punish, it would be so difficult because of things like the minor yet significant input delay or the small range covered by the backdash. This is how I felt even after not recognizing how strong Mishima movement was in previous tekkens. I feel the way tekken makes every character unique with great designs and fighting styles and style of play is the best part about it but their uniqueness should lead to a factor that helps them win and buffing what's arguably Kazuya's only gimmicky move in hell sweeps is doing the opposite. There are so many more similar points about character like Lee, Bryan, etc.
This is mad facts, man. I tear up Kazuya on the open floor, but near a wall, or heaven forbid a wall break combo, shit is just over, for most characters and players.
i agree with you brother. If you a mishima main and you enjoy sliding tires in ice with food trays, then dont add a 4 wheel drive to the equation, just add more winters.
I agree that this game feels like both opponents are playing chicken, especially as I play higher level opponents. It’s so explosive, you can’t mess up.
They don't want to make any changes to existing characters if they have to create new animations that allow their basic fundamentals to have reach and other properties that make them more viable.
Omg Michael Murray really said that? HOLY CRAP. I am shocked. How is he one of the main guys making this game? Or is he just not involved in designing the subtleties of the move and movement properties?
He is a producer. He's a nexus of communication for the rest of the team. He definitely has say in decisions that get made, as does most if not all upper management. It's not his job to figure out design and all the intricacies but he has some input. But the fact that he's vocal on twitter makes him see like the primary decision maker for all things. He's just the main point of contact for the team.
@@xDMrGarrison It's a tough spot to be in. You as a game developer have to make decisions not only for the fans but also to push something the team wants to do. You can't make everything for the fans because people will still be pisses off and you can't do everything you as a group want to do because people will still be pissed off. The team over at tekken are moving toward a direction and he has a leader has to take their side for the large part. You can't shaft your team by saying their wrong and the public is right. That's a quick way to create friction in a team. BUT there are nuggets of truth and knowledge on both sides, those who play the game have to accept and those who make the game have to accept.
@@xDMrGarrison but regardless, "just block and launch" instead of sidestepping the mix up entirely is just a clear indication of a player whose knowledge base isn't that extensive.
@@suremaine I agree with everything you said :P I get that he can't please everyone and maybe he has other people taking care of the intricasies, but it really isn't that hard to get a decent grasp on the basics of Tekken. If he just picked a character, sat down with a good and intelligent player and played for like 10-20 hours and have him explain stuff to him, he'd understand so much about the game. Seems like a tiny investment for the man whose job title is "main producer of Tekken 7" :P But Harada is the same, if you saw him play at that tournament he played in, you get the impression that he hasn't played Tekken for more than a few hours in his entire life. It's very strange. It is possible that they think that because Tekken only recently exploded in popularity, they don't really need all the details and intricasies that make Tekken such a deep and beautiful game. And they just need to make it pretty and cool and release ridiculous characters. Maybe the direction they're going in is of mediocrity and greed. btw, if you google Michael Murray, you get a male model whose name is Chad Michael Murray xD He's like the total opposite of non-chad Michael Murray xD
7 months later and with the emergence of season 4 ? This feels even more relevant now than when it dropped The buffs all feel like buffs for the sake of it and the ones that were apparently intended to improve the characters , DID NOT . The game is really losing its soul The buffs are not addressing weakenesses in the characters game, they just feel random and poorly thought through. Leo got a KnK move that not only had other moves that performed the same fucntion (2 for tracking and 4 for the low option) the other two moves were better and were largely uninterruptible and SAFE, she got a slow , interruptible and thereby useless addition to the stance whereas the weakness in the stance was the absence of a lockdown mid of any kind to stifle retaliation. This is the trend, if youre saying you want to buff weaker chascters then buff their ACTUAL weaknesses and dont just put random new moves and add random damage ! The hype on this season will soon die and thats when most of us will open our eyes
You are right about everything here and I'm so depressed because I used to think the game was good but what makes tekken tekken isnt in this game. I wish players would migrate to like 5 dr like the smash community did with melee or at least something.
Now I might be really dumb i get that but i thought they would nerf the tracking of ewgf... And then they go ahead and buff the tracking of hellsweep. Honestly im just confused
I wonder if they will reverse the changes of kazuya db/4. Isn't this the reason Geese's down 3 got nerfed because it was beating every option at the wall except block low. When ever Geese did the wall combo that ended with reppuken.
Buff Asuka Lore LOOOOOORRRRREEEEEE ME HARD CAPCOM NAMDAI! Real talk tho, as somebody who plays Kazumi as a sub, I thought 99% of the community all agreed her season 1 db4 was too strong, now it returns on Kazuya? Its borderline insulting as a Kazumi player. No joke.
yeah they did dirty to Kazumi players and also poor Miguel players too. Miguel SAV db3 was +5 on hit and force crouch. Namco remove the force crouch and its only +4 now And then they introduce Fahkumram and he has a *+5 on hit low that forces crouch* and doesn´t require a stance to use it.
Yeah, speed. Your obviously have been around the block. I still have a lot to learn about tekken and I’m not good at the game at all. But even I see no sense in improving his mixup options, with tracking a electric and hellsweep. It doesn’t make sense to me but I’ll take cuz whateves. I’m gonna start playing Josie more though. I don’t think the buff will matter to me much, cuz I still have to work on alotta matchups and my awareness for stuff.
The electric makes sense, coz this is how the Mishimas were in the older games. And while Jin is separating his ass from them, his has still a slower recovery on whiff, which is good. The only thing that DOESN'T make sense is the Hellsweep tracking. Like wtf, I couldn't even side step the S2 Hellsweep and HAD to time it, and now it'll be fuckin' hard as shit to side step it.
they should have fixed some characters hitbox, sit down and look at them closely in different situations, maybe some dmg nerfs, but keep the rest untouched. that would have helped the game.
We are at the point now in Tekken 7 where damage is pretty much maximized. Most characters in the game have a max damage of combo of at leas 50%, some well over 60-70%. So that leaves little options of Namco to truly "tune" the game besides hit box adjustments or new moves. So we will continue to see this unfortunately.
Imagine being armor King the 3rd most played character online yet hasn't received a single buff or quality of life change. They can't even give his hopkick a little more range.
His hopkick doesnt deserve more range ... What they should do is nerf to the ground those hopkicks on steroids from k4t4rin4 claudio and chloe They are complete bullshit
It's not fun playing mishimas currently despite the buffs. I missed the old play style of mishimas, movement and whiff punishment. I guess ill just play alisa at least her movement feels like tag2.
I'm ten million years late to reply but play Zafina instead, sure you will miss out in not being able to launch at i15 standing and while standing but the movement.. Oh Lord
Aah well ur fav char got buffed like crazy aswell, so manny chars have a homing low move. I guess even hwo's sweep has tracking aswell surely easyer to intercept but yea. Not the end of tekken lmao its not like kazuya gonna get more tournament shine wich they hope they'd changed with this patch. Maybe more devil jin for sure. And after this patch i'd guess u have way more chance of winning a tournament aswell. Cause if someone got massively buffed its hwo.
