I have been gaslit so many times I now shop for fire retardant clothes. And now I have a cramp in my neck from nodding to everything you have said in this video.
That's smart, don't react. It's what they want, a reaction. Don't play and you win. All of this has taught me to be aware of my immediate reaction with people.
Excellent point - it's not just limited to our ex's - there are a lot of people in the world/work that do this exact thing. Learning to see that and modify our response is the hard part! Well, until we learn how, then its not so bad! -Duane
DeMars Coaching you are correct !! I just lost another do not react !! I reacted to his stupid email and I have them redirected ( they all go to trash ). but I still look at least two three per week 😬😞
Yes, it all started making sense when I learned the words Narcissistic Abuse and looked into what it was all about...And listened to my life be told!!! Right here on this channel mostly and a few other channels somewhat. About one month now...I am no longer helpless, hopeless, wrong, confused or feel like I'm "crazy" The subtle stuff is nearly impossible to explain even to yourself unless you are talking to someone who KNOWS Narcissism!! This knowledge?? It freed me from soooo much!! Thanks, Duane So Much!
8:16 - SO TRUE!! Being happy does threaten their happiness!! THIS IS KEY!!! Thank you so much Duane!! Great video. Great channel. So happy I subscribed!! Please don't shorten your videos. You are helping me so much. You are Pure Validation For Me!! Thank you again Duane!!
Thank you Ame3thyst3 I appreciate that - that’s one of my originally videos within the first few months of the starting this channel. I’m glad it still resonates with people. I do think my pacing is much better now - it’s also hard to believe how far things have come in the 1 1/2 I’ve been doing this. Thank you again or the nice comment! I hope you really start to see some improvements in your life and situation with the information! -Duane
Wow, a friend told me about gaslighiting a couple a weeks ago and how she thought my ex used it with me for years especially during our big and final break up 2 weeks ago saying that he never said some specific things in the past( when I had evidence he did say them) and I caught myself recently doubting myself and saying : " Well maybe I misunderstood what he said" or " maybe this was all my fault" and even aplogizing at some point for things that he made me believe were true when they were not! Wow I can't believe there is actually a name for these type of people.
Hi M N and welcome to the channel! Yeah unfortunately this is a very common trait for toxic and/or narcissistic people. I think everyone finds themselves questioning their own sanity and reality and that is by design. It keeps you off track and second guessing yourself. Hopefully you don’t have children with this person and you can make good break from them. That doesn’t mean it still won’t be hard but it is easier if they do not have a legitimate reason to contact you. I have a playlist that is a primer for this sort of thing called *Mindset for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery* bit.ly/MindsetForNarcRecovery. It is good that you have a friend who understands this because they can provide local validation to what you were going through! -Duane
9:10 The emotional conditioning where you have to be in a certain state when they want it is one of the effective tactics of manipulation, definitely. As long as they do that then they can rationalize the abuse. My father would criticize me for being happy, he would criticize me for being sad, and outright mock me for being angry (or an "angry person" when often at the moment I wasn't angry) so unconsciously there was basically a state of turmoil where I couldn't express emotion. Emotion is threatening to a narcissist when expressed by an authentic person because it asserts the individuality and basic rights of the authentic person which can in turn expose the narcissist's flawed character and fake life. That is one of the basic reasons narcissistic parents attack the scapegoat child and use him as a storage device for their psychological refuse. They feel exposed in the presence of the authentic child. And the exposure is a threat, a basic threat to their selfhood and existence which by nature they are driven to preserve, in spite of its perversity and evil. Immoral people commit offenses and they do it often enough to where it becomes a part of them and to expose those offenses means the destruction of their selves.
The part that particularly spoke to me was about being given permission to be happy. The person who emotionally abused me was made angry if I appeared to be happy. I just thought he had spent time and energy making me unhappy so it made him feel he had failed. I never thought of it in the terms explained here and it does make sense.
Hi Cavalier Mum and welcome to the channel! Yeah that was one I just didn't understand until I had left and had some time to really be able to think about it. I think I did instinctively know but didn't really believe it. It's all about control, projection and emotional manipulation. There should really be a course in high school about all of this so that you can recognize inappropriate and dangerous behavior... -Duane
Right now I’m in process of quitting my job under a reign of crazy narcissistic boss. He treated me like shit for a period of two years; I had been his scapegoat for all this time. And he dumped and vented aggression on me on daily basis. And I even started to get chronically sick with infections after all that stress. And when I finally get enough and I quit boss gaslights me and others that his behavior is totally normal, and I’m too sensitive, and that happens everywhere, and he knows places where is much worse, that others tolerate that “totally normal” behavior, and it’s okay and he didn’t do anything wrong. And by quitting I make him suffer and harm and so on and so forth. I’m guilty in his eyes and he is righteous. And I feel such negative energy coming from him. And logically I cannot prove him that he is wrong, he just deny logic and reality I even have some of our conversation recorded, but he do not care, he just as broken record keep pushing his agenda. And his version of reality justifies his abuse. And that toughs just keep spinning in side of my head, he get under my skin, occupied my mental space and I can’t get rid of that.
Hi Black Duck - yeah that sounds like a very common response for someone like that. Reality and truth don't matter only the illusion of what is his reality. I'm glad that you have finally broken free from that situation. I think we all have to have really strong boundaries although its tough when our jobs are on the line. These people leave a wake of destruction in their path and professional relationships can be just as damaging as personal ones - sometimes worse depending on the fallout and career impacts that they can cause. I hope you are doing much better now that you are getting away. -Duane
Thank you for emotional support, I really appreciate that. Yeah, reality to them does not matter and sometimes I’m confused are they specially deceiving or they actually believe in what they say and do is real? Seem its weird mixture of both. Total mess but with one goal - narcs appear superior, top dogs, they make and break rules, dominate. You write about boundaries, totally agree, but do you know how to have strong boundaries? Cluster B people just blow through them, even if I appeal to a law it’s to them just nothing. For example in arguing with boss I told him that he pushed me to work from home very hard when I was sick on a sick leave (by the law I should not, nevertheless he cut my salary and I had health complications of that work and stress), he arrogantly and in abusive and disrespectful tone replied - so what? I’m with broken leg come to work!!! So law for him is not a law. He just does not give a damn about law and personal safety of worker. How to maintain boundary in such situations? In same conversation he pushed me plus to my duties to work for another worker for 3 weeks to do job which is not in my contract, I refuse does that for free, I have full right to do that, he immediately started a plan how to fire me. I just do not have Idea how to protect and maintain boundaries in such situations and with people like that. May be you can recommend some resources - information how to deal with situations like that, how to have strong boundaries? For example I started to record all my conversations with a boss phone conversations, and in person that scared him a little bit, cause he just flat out denied that he told me, or promised or we have a deal, or he played amnesia so on. So I’ll be glad if could provide some information on a topic of boundaries. And I wish you all well in your endeavors, and fastest recovery form abuse.
Hi ***** I think it helps to (unfortunately) know there is community of people who've been through this so we're not alone. Thank you for commenting! -Duane
Thank you so much, fortunately I didn't have children with him. The hardest part for me has been accepting the fact that this person never loved me during our 15 year relationship which he called "a chapter in his life" he is now with someone else (other supply) which I know for sure met her during our relationship. Finding about this disorder through your channel has opened my eyes so much and I am thankful. I will look into the link you send me for the recovery phase. Thank you once again.
As I woke my ex would say "you were a bitch last night"????? Eventually I would just apologise straight away. It got to the point that before I went to bed I would write a note to myself that said "everything was fine last night you did nothing wrong" I'd find it in my drawer as I got ready. I knew I was being gaslighted but didn't trust my own brain to confront it!
Well that is just a wonderful way to start your day. But that sounds like typical controlling behavior to set the stage for your day. It's hard to see it because we just don't want to believe it - one you don't want to believe that you would "find" someone who would do that to you - and you want to believe there is something good there. But once the behavior and actions keep going it starts to become more than we can hide from. -Duane
The ex. Shes a master at gaslighting!! I read a lot about it, its so deep, there's a lot behind it, this one thing in itself without the other tactics could and probably would destroy you in almost any possible aspect
They always strike when ou're the happiest you've ever been. They just can't stand it seeing you happy so they must tear you down. And they suced... But then you remove them rom your life, stand up again, work hard and become even happier.
Holy cow! Were we married to the same woman? 21 year mark, same here. Start to become happy (in spite of her), same here. That's when the problems became worse, same here.
+Narcmare Aware - what how dare you find a way to be happy when SHE doesn't allow it!!! It sure is a crazy experience to go through but realizing we aren't alone sure helps!
My ex refuses to set expectations for my daughter regarding personal hygiene, school work, behavior, etc. When I do she tells me I'm pushing too hard and am jeopardizing my relationship with my daughter. I've finally come to see this as gaslighting and that she is actually more concerned with how it will affect her relationship with our daughter if she's the one who sets expectations and enforces them. Early on in our marriage and over the years, she often tried to make me feel bad for her because I had goals and dreams for myself and she never did. She usually said it like it was something bad. Looking back I can see how she did this to me constantly. Thanks for the videos.
Wow ***** your last part about goals and dreams is spot on with what I was dealing with. I honestly feel I had the success I did in live *in spite of her* not because of her. Sure wish the family court system would have thought of it that way!!! (LOL) You probably already have experienced this *BUT* your daughter will respond to you having boundaries and expectations. She will fight you on it. She will push your buttons, but in the end it *WILL* create a better relationship with her. Be consistent with boundaries and love and from everything I have read and experienced you will be successful with her. It might be a knock-down-drag-out battle with her (daughter) but it's one of those battles you just have to fight. -Duane
Yes, I have succeeded in spite of her but at the same time, I missed a lot of opportunities because I always gave into her neediness and victimhood. Like you said before, it's in the past and we're better off. I am so thankful for that. Unfortunately, I didn't fight my ex for custody. It's the biggest mistake I made in my divorce. I didn't realize she was a narcissist then. I wanted it over as quickly as possible and I bought into the lie that kids need both parents in their lives and agreed to joint custody without question. I have her every other week. Part of me believes had I demanded primary custody she would have complied because she ultimately doesn't want to be raising our daughter but there's part of me that knows it would have been a nasty fight because she would have been more worried about what others think than what's in the best interest of our daughter. Had I won full custody she'd have had time with my daughter, I wouldn't deny her that, but it definitely wouldn't have been weeks at a time. It's like starting over every other week. Yes, my daughter is silently fighting us every step of the way. Simply being too lazy to bathe at her mothers, showering without shampoo/soap, constantly forgetting about homework, and no motivation whatsoever to improve herself in any form or fashion. Not to mention the lying that her mother constantly encourages. She's even showing signs of NPD herself, which I need to talk to her therapist about but I fear that it will look like I'm just being vindictive and trying to disparage her mother. I know it will get better but it's complete bullshit now. Thanks for responding.
My opinion, so take it for what it's worth, had you fought for full custody, unless she had agreed to it you probably would have never received it. The same way that had you ex fought for that, but you wanted 50/50, she would have never gotten that either. Just be grateful you didn't make the mistake a lot of father's make were you *think* it would be better for the kids to be in one house and that everything will be fine. In a normal person, it would be fine, but with an NPD the nightmare you are living now would be worse because you'd have nearly no opportunity to influence your daughter AND your her mother would have ample time to do parental alienation. In a lot of ways the 50/50 scenario is a total nightmare because you can't get away from the narcissist and you are stuck in the perpetual ground hog day effect I talked about and you mentioned. I believe you're correct, had you (or I) received full custody and could have provided a consistent home for our kids things would have been much better. However that isn't the reality of our situation and I feel you're correct the mothers (in our scenarios) would never *give up* their kids because of the way it looked. It's bad enough you got 50% timeshare and I would imagine the spin, as was mine, is that the system believed *your lies* and broke up the family. That reminded me of a funny story (funny now that is) where when it changed to 50/50 the kids were freaked out because I had *"more"* time than mommy. I literally had to sit down with them, show them a two week calendar, and show them the time was even. Prior to that they were convinced that I took time from mommy. Which *technically* was true but you can see the manipulation, she was trying to turn the kids against their father because *he* stole time. It's just sick. Honestly Kevin it does get a lot better. All of my kids have gone through various phases of this. It is unfortunate that once I thought I was *done* my youngest started having a lot of problems. The same problems my oldest *had*. So there is *hope* that all the pain and suffering that you are putting in will have a nice payoff later on down the line. On the therapist front I encouraged the kids therapist to collaborate with mine with the hope that some of my concerns would be validated. Honestly I'm not sure how well that has worked - but I will tell you this - the kids are all still in therapy with really no sign of it stopping anytime soon. Honestly I can see why some parents (I say it that way because after starting this site it has become glaringly obvious that this happens to mothers as well as fathers) just give up and walk away. If the kids start "turning" on you it could be very difficult to keep up the fight. My father gave up, at the time I didn't understand and it was very hurtful. Now I completely understand why and I can respect that he made the best decision he could to maintain his own sanity. Anyway that was a much longer response than I truly intended - hope everyone is okay with that! -Duane
+Kevin G. Hart It's not unusual for them to set no standards for Anything with the children. To be the favored parent in the Child's Eyes is the goal. It was like that in our home. I was the Only True Parent in or home.
Very good point - that is something that I have battled with. It's really hurtful too because when you are working to *be* a good parent the kids will throw that in your face that they would rather be *"at mommy's"*. I haven't heard it this year but the two prior years when my youngest was failing and I was working diligently with her teachers to bypass what her mother wasn't doing to hear your daughter tell you she doesn't like you and wants to live with mommy because she's better at homework. And you know that all that is happening (at the most) is "mommy" is asking, "Did you do your homework?" and the child is saying "Yes" and everything is fine. Except that they are getting F's and ZEROS for everything. Just have to be consistent and NOT get angry. Fully disclosure - I'm not a saint - I've made my fair share of mistakes - and I've gotten angry. It has taken me *a lot of time* to get to where I am at now. I can also still have my bad days, especially if I am sick and/or very tired, but I have also seen how moving away from the angry has significantly improved my success with the kids. Bottom line - it's REALLY hard when you have one parent undermining another. But there is still success in those situations - it's just harder... -Duane
We are one side of a coin, heads or tails, and they are the other. The problem was I didn't know the other side Even Existed! We were/are the rock of stability to their insanity and kept everything rolling. Good Supply offers them the opportunity to continue on as they please, look good, and stay hidden. I was very good supply and sadly lasted far too long. I could not suspect a disorder I had no idea existed. Constructing and then offering His Excuses for His Unacceptable Behavior so he never even had to do that! I was completely reliable and dependable. I justified, rationalized, figured & figured, and lived in the unsettling fog of cognitive dissonance to my own demise. Trust of the innocent Will lead to slaughter by the NPD individual. I once believed Words. I learned the words of a narcissist ARE NOTHING! All I Hear when a narcissist speaks or writes is the voice of Charlie Brown's Parents. Yes, it is good to know we are not alone. This is an excellent video. Thank you.
It is amazing to think/see how we all have lived in these scenarios and justified what we were doing. I can remember the ex telling me that she had to make excuses for me and *my* behavior and I believed that I *had a problem* and was lucky and grateful to have someone so *wonderful* in my life. I think we all can relate to being in that environment. Part of the problem in recovery that I think we all must endure is accepting that we *allowed* this to happen and played an active role in our own demise! Thank you for the comment and feedback - I truly appreciate it! -Duane
Duane, we did not know there was something so foreign to us and awful on the other side of that coin. The head doesn't See the tail! Had we known I'm sure we would have stood well for ourselves. We are/were envied. Targets and Victims are among the finest people. We are in good company!
Again excellent point and comment! I'm hopeful that I will be enable to impart this knowledge onto my children so they will be able to recognize this behavior and now allow it into their lives instead of thinking that it is normal. I know that some people are duped because they've never experienced this type of abuse and just can't wrap their heads around it and then there is another *faction* (like me) who grew up in this environment and it was *normal* so when it was happening you (me) fundamentally expected it and thought you deserved it. Both ways is bad and damaging - but knowledge and "I know what you are" enables us to now see through it and to *NEVER* allow this in our lives again! -Duane
Laughing! I have said/written words very similar to your last sentence, including the All Caps "NEVER", a zillion times! Again Fairy Tales are simple enough for a young child to follow and hear Profound Lessons I wish had been pointed out when young. Many movie/film and book/literature characters display their disturbing traits. Jesus was the biblical scapegoat. He was smeared, crucified, suffered, and died for others' wrongs. Fairy Tales: Rapunzel was locked in a tower, isolated, demeaned, battered, and assaulted. Luring innocent/naive Red Riding Hood (me) close enough to eat, the Wolf mirrored Grandmothers persona, which was his False Self. Snow White (me) gave indiscriminate and unearned trust. She did not See. She shows fantasy as a coping mechanism. Sleeping Beauty was envied, therefore despised and destroyed. These truths were never discussed with me but were dismissed as "Only Stories". They aren't Only Stories. They clearly tell of The Enormous Unseen Elephant in the room, narcissism and psychopathy. Sigh
Honestly why isn't there better education for appropriate behavior? Even the stories you pointed out had a dark side but they aren't discussed in those terms. Negative and toxic behavior is explained away and children are raised to rationalize and accept it. Our hope now is that we can raise our children in a way to teach them of this evil and to enable them to break the cycle. I have hope that I *will* be able to do what with my children but it's really hard to say. My son, who is staring to have an understanding, is so traumatized by everything that he never wants to get married or have children. My middle daughter has made similar comments. Hopefully they can learn from this experience and have a good life going forward. But the constant influence of a toxic cover narcissist significantly reduces that chance. -Duane
I can relate with that Ronald, it's an easy manipulation tactic, you try to have a fair voice in things and then you are demonized for being angry or mean or whatever else they can come up with to shut you down. It's all about control and manipulation. -Duane
DSD is great. He makes a lot of sense. I have had dealings with Gaslighting, narcs, and other forms of manipulative situations. I have overcome all of it. My suggestion is to, never second guess yourself, and simply eliminate people that posses those characteristics. If you can not completely eliminate them, decrease your interactions as much as possible. This is the only way. They just want control. Not engaging is one way of defeating the opponent.
Hi Duane, I have watched this video a few weeks ago and of course agreed and recognized every single item on your list. Last night my son was talking to his father on the phone about making some schedule changes for up coming weekends, little background story, my son plays basketball and all his games are on Saturday and Sundays for years it has been a big issue between his father and i, he claims I always make plans for the kids on his weekend and I insist on correcting him by saying it is not really MY plans it is your son's plans since he has been playing basketball for the past 7 years so it's nothing new.. if you remember he moved far from where we live and so he only gets to see our kids every other weekend. Long story short, last night my son handed me the phone and said his dad wanted to talk to me, now it's has been almost 3 months since I last spoke to him, very minimal communication via text and emails when absolutely necessary.. so needless to say I was very reluctant to talk to him but i said to myself just calm down and stick to the point and hang up.. unfortunately my plan didn't execute as I planned it, the conversation got heated and he was trying to talk to me about our daughter and how he never gets to see her (she's 15 and doesn't want to go to his house anymore) accusing me and my daughter of lying to him about what we do etc etc.. I won't bore you with all the ridicules details.. but what was really interesting is how for the first time I was able to really hear what was happening where as in prior calls I was left confused and upset. Don't get me wrong, I was still extremely upset last night but the difference is that I was able to differentiate the two, I was a little mad at myself for taking the phone and engaging in a conversation but also a little thankful for being able to see him for who he really is. I no longer have to prove anything to him. I have two truly amazing and talented children sadly he can't see that because he's too involved in proving me wrong meanwhile the kids are growing further apart from him, realizing themselves who he really is while he's still stuck in the "when am I going to get my time with the kids".. the train has left the station douche bag! In the past i used to spend hours thinking about what had happened and how I can change it but now, although I did get upset for some time, it didn't affect me as much. He said something that kind of put a smile on my face, he said - "oh, you must be enjoying all this, this is exactly what you wanted all along" - referring to the fact that our kids don't really want to spend time with him and would rather stay home with me and hang out with their friends. I smiled when he said that, but didn't make any comment. I ended the call. There is simply nothing else I can say to this pathetic excuse for a father. He will look anywhere possible to blame anyone but himself for his wrong doing. Always telling me to move on when I mention the fact that he is the one who moved away and made these choices.. he doesn't want to hear that because it's the truth and he has always expected everyone else to just accept it. well, it's finally heating him where it hurts although I doubt he will realize this any time soon. What I wanted to know from your experience is what is the best way to deal with the aftermath of gas-lighting conversations?
Hi Galitell yeah it sounds like you are on the right path minus the conversation getting heated. When you can recognize what they are doing and tell yourself that while it's happening it really changes the dynamic. I wouldn't necessarily recommend testing yourself on a regular basis because there are times where you might just miss it and fall into the old patterns. You know the sports things is really crazy - the ex was always the soccer mom and even did girl scouts for a while and I wasn't really able to participate because of work. When the divorce happened it shifted and I was the one making the soccer happen and I was taking my youngest to scouts. It should have been easy for her to keep doing that and pick places that would have been nearly impossible for me to support but instead, since I was pushing it (I guess) she fought me tooth and nail on it. In retrospect I was grateful for that but at the time it really messed with my head. Botton line they generally do their own destruction - in my situation however the kids always give her a pass on everything so they haven't tired of her covert narcissistic behavior. I believe my youngest is seeing it but I have to be careful to NOT make the same mistakes that I have with my son. -Duane
Hi Duane, yes, the part where the conversation was getting out of control was not in my favor but really did teach me an important lesson. I am in a much better place then I was 6 months ago. I am able to process and understand what is happening, it is still hard to comprehend no matter how much you know. It's just not a normal behavior. Dealing with normal ppl most of the time and then having to switch takes a couple minutes. But like I said, I noticed right away he was gaslighting me and projecting his insecurities onto me. Silly me I was still trying to explain some things and then I stopped myself and just said, have a great evening, goodbye! He also had the nerve to say, you are getting very hostile.. what a loser. I can't afford to sit and watch as my daughter drifts further and further away from her father, I have decided to give her some information on how to cope with him. I remember you mentioned in the past that it is not our job to expose them to our children, but I think its imperative I help my daughter understand what she's dealing with before more damage is done. What are your thoughts?
yes, for no real reason I've been in situations where I feel like my x narc wanted me to like feel I'm in the wrong. It's like we've done something to them and we were not caring enough to realize we did it, or maybe we did something that was really wrong and they play it bigger than it deserves. In either case, It appeared to me that my narc was enjoying my confuse predicament, so they were getting N-supply? maybe? Today I think more on the side of yes, she did. yeah, the narc definitely want's to control your emotions as though your emotions are attached to a string being pulled by your narc. The narc knows very well we're in love with them and they are using our love to control our emotions for most anything they need. This would also conclude the Narc knows we're not being loved by them as we are expecting and believing to be. I've come to yet another conclusion that this is the exact position the Narc wants us in. The Narc is realizing that we're not realizing the situation. They know we're living in the dark. Period!! They know there's much more going on than we can see! Again, they know we're blind to them and at the time it happens we miss it. But as time goes along we do begin to put things together and at least to some point we now being to realize there was more going on than we knew at the time. The Narc was gaslighting us all along the way, the whole relationship is a gas-lighting experience. No matter how long it last, your life with a Narc will never be on the level with them, they are going to live that second life that knows your being lied too. We will never get from them the truth that they never loved us or put us on the same level with them! Whatever that is???? After my X Narc left me, I attempted three times to level with her, and neither time did she ever come close to the truth that she wasn't in the relationship with any commitment. My X would just keep making statements that always implicated me and put herself in a victims position yes because of me. This is yet another red flag your dealing with someone who can't be on the level with you. The narc just can't be someone who doesn't have a need to hide something and that hiding is always because of someone else, never is it because of the Narc. Normal people who have issues will share with you what's going on in a way that allows you to be a real part of their life, where the Narc will never allow you to be a solution to them. Why is because for one the Narc is more than likely just making it up to Gas-light you and second they don't want you to think you can fix anything for them, that would ruin their Gas-lighting plans. So there's never a fix for any of their issues.
I knew almost immediately he was a narcissist! But he brought so much excitement in to my life! Now I suffer depression constantly and his advice isn’t helpful in fact it make my sadness worse! He knows my triggers and he uses them, it agitates me and makes me go lower! There is no happy medium! He wants me to behave like him! And tells me my personality is weak! If I could be like him I would! Who wouldn’t? No conscious no care! My empathy is a weakness in his eyes! And this has had such a negative effect on me.
Plus! He goes on and on about empathy! Our garage is filled with boxes of his late mother’s belongings! I keep telling him your store house is in you! Your memories! But what I really believe is! He wants to make out to me that he is so empathetic and I who have only photos and memories is callous!
My dream which I told him was to have a caravan and tour Britain and Europe! I started looking at secondhand vans! My budget was 6K eventually it came to us having the biggest and best! Which meant change of car! All huge expense! My little dream was hijacked! Our van is now state of the art! It is so not the dream I had visualised! The dream of touring! It’s now his ideal! It makes me sad because this has not been a happy outcome! He even conplains if a tent is next to us! Like they should be demoted to a lower field!
One of the very worst experience s I had in my early days, we went out in Dorset! We were a little bit lost and it was getting close to lunchtime! He pulled in to a car park! Now I know looking back it was staged! He had seen a bin lorry there, he told me to go ask the rubbish men where is the best place to eat! I refused! He angrily revved up the car and we drove to the town! On finding the best place to eat! He sat opposite me sipping his wine and telling me how all the women had made such an effort! By now I knew he was insulting me! The day was hurtful and painful! I didn’t call him out and once again I just accepted the abuse. And now! 16 years on! I don’t feel worthy, so from having fun and excitement to now not even wanting to get out of bed. That’s what a narcissist does to you.
@@suetod1 Hello Sue, I hear everything you are saying. I petitioned when I knew that the pain of being with him was worse than the pain of leaving him. Your depression is caused by him whatever anyone else says. You know this when you see a friend and they say something kind - it may be a small thing - but it makes you feel better for a few days. We should only be around people who make us feel good. If someone makes you feel bad, it is not your fault, it is theirs. Your personality is not weak, it has just been temporarily removed from view. It is still inside you and can be brought back. If your partner has said that to you - it is not acceptable and is a red flag. Get a support network, fight the isolation, confide in two trusted people to spread the load..and go from there. Friends have got me through. You deserve to feel better.
I hate it when someone I know says all these good and bad things happened to us in childhood when I don’t remember it at all ever happening or I wasn’t there and that ‘person’ makes it seem like I have a memory problem or they have a temper tantrum because I tell them I don’t know what they’re talking about.
My sister made sure to tell my neighbor all about my nieces wedding and how nice it was. I wasn't invited. She wanted my neighbor to know all about it because she knows we're friends. My sister lives in my building. They all know I have mental illness so this makes it more fun I guess. I'm so angry.
HI Big Mac and welcome to the channel, yeah we end up doing that to make sense of it all for ourselves. It sure would have been nice if we could have realized there wasn't nothing to explain away and it was serious sign something wasn't right. -Duane
Thank You,...you have explained my reality in a nutshell. Do they even realize just how abusive they are? Do they do it on purpose? or are they just projecting their own insecurities? Will counselling help, or do you just leave the relationship?
Hi Kerri and welcome to the channel. The generally opinion is yes they do know how abusive they are and are completely aware of what they are doing. If you watch any of the narc channels (Sam Vaknin, HD Tudor, etc) they all say the absolutely know what they are doing and what they are going for. That is a really difficult concept to wrap your head around because while they are doing it they *act* as if they are in their own reality where you can think they are unwittingly doing these things. You have to be careful about getting in that mindset because if you think they don't know then it can mess with your. Realistically with a narcissistic counseling isn't going to help them or your relationship and *if you get a bad therapist it can be very destructive*. I have recommended in the past trying to work with a marriage counselor to help you validate that they are not going to change BUT again if you get a therapist that doesn't understand personality disorders then they can basically re-victimize you - so if you go that way you have to have a clear understanding that you have to look at actions and words - if you're not being validate by your partner nor the therapist then that is a *huge problem*. Honestly if your partner really does have a personality disorder more than likely leaving is going to be the only remaining option but only you are going to know when it is the right decision. Heck, I stayed for 20 years - and it wasn't as if everything changed in the last few months - she was the way she was the entire time - I just refused to see it. -Duane
I see you were with your ex for 20 years too. You said you had a few Issues to sort yourself before you could leave. I wonder if these were just normal vulnerabilities we all have that are used against us. This happened to me so I blamed myself at first and did not realise. I also remember meeting an old friend - at the time my husband had got me into a position where I had no job and no children. My friend was shocked at my life at the time. I didn't even see it myself and felt patronised by this friend I hadn't seen for years. I now know that my husband had done this on purpose. It was sheer luck I managed to have children at the last minute and even until the end he was trying to discourage me from working so that I would be dependent on him financially. If he had managed this, I would not be able to survive now. Not liking you to be happy - yes I try not to let him know if I am doing anything nice as he will try to make it difficult. How it felt in the marriage - yes I always felt tired and things felt chaotic and I now know why. I had to keep a low profile with my husband as he would get angry at the slightest thing, shouting at me because I was criticising him or making demands. The craziness - when I got some tangible evidence that my husband was not the honest man he pretended to be, he talked me round and spent the next two years in a concerted effort to break me. Again, it took a long time for me to realise what was happening - after 18 months I suddenly realised what he was doing and petitioned straight away. His defense was that I was crazy because of the menopause and he tried to take my children to punish me. I am a psychologist by background and I agree - once you start researching covert narcissism it is fascinating but also incredibly sad that you have gone through all these things which are basically text book - you can tick every single one of them off. I go back to even before I was married and can see now what he was doing to me - that is tough after 20 years.
listening to you describing you want to be "x,y,z,(more positive,etc) and having an old friend tell you you already were those things, don't you think all you wanted was just to be yourself again? also- the sucker punch, from experience, is when you're under attack , if you feel that mentally, emotionally take it as evidence you were just attacked.
Hi echopathy, because you wanted to believe the illusion and you had invested so much of yourself into it. It is very common for all of us to do just that. -Duane
*****, the discard is really painful when you are left wondering what happened without any answer or context how you can be "thrown away" so easily like you meant nothing. The sad realization is that we really didn't mean anything to them. Thank you for commenting and the hugs! -Duane
It's been three years since my wife divorced me and, thanks to Duane, I'm starting to understand what she put me through. The discard stage is very difficult. At least it was for me because it came out of the blue with no warning. She was simply done with me and had no real answers why. Like Duane says, I never really meant anything to her anyway. She only wanted me gone when she thought she had a chance to reconnect with an ex-boyfriend she found on Facebook. I have a feeling that we'd still be together had she not been so hellbent on pursuing him. Fortunately, her plan failed and she wasn't able to ruin another marriage and family. Thankfully I got out when I did. Once you start to realize how they've manipulated and controlled you the weight will lift and you'll discover the real you. The hardest part for me is forgiving myself for falling into the trap in the first place and not kicking her to the curb early on in our marriage.
+ottirfos your welcome, I hope this helps! Learning to deal with a narcissist is a very complicated task. Good luck to you and I wish you all the best!
Bad boy Apple flat screen ! Just saying 6 weeks no contact sent her your parental alienation video and boom my 10 year old calling. My hope is she has became self aware she is narcissistic. The local Royal hospital diagnosed her with 3 possible personalitie disorders. It has been hell even though I am no contact for 6 weeks still cannot fall out of love with her. I kbow and beleive the truth 20 years of toxicity. I did seperate several times up to 5 years at a time. Always new something was wrong just figured it out through U tube. I have been isolated from my friends and family for 23 years .I missed my owns dad death . I AM SHADOW OF PERSON and I relate embarrassed to see old friends because I know I am different.
It's tough Big Mac, and unfortunately even after the relationship has ended they will continue to try and find unique ways to gaslight you. But as you get away and get some distance their ability to manipulate and control starts to dissipate. -Duane
Carsons mom here! Long time since I watched. But I said Im sorry like it was a habit. Id hand him a fork.. hed almost dropit..*Im sorry*, bump his arm *Im sorry!* The anger I think that ensued because of silly stuff would make me automatically apologize. It took me 8 yrs and googling to even know what I was dealing w
