@@kuuhakudesu The logic behind it is that if someone is actually using Vortex Vanquisher (nobody does) in its current state, they will be upset that Hoyo changed something they invested in. 99% of players will be happier with the change, but in Hoyo's perspective it sets a bad precedent, cause they have to buff and change other stuff now. Basically, classic Hoyo laziness. Dehya will forever remain a 3.9 star character.
I remember pulling him while looking for razor constellations and then witnessing the great war afterwise, the chinese community definitely carried most of the weight, shit was wild lol
Oldhead here for some context: 1) People using ruin guards for testing: People, specifically Jinx and Tuner, used Ruin guards as dummies to test animations and hit lag (they would frame count in video editing software). They were not commonly used to dps testing. usually they would unequip all their good gear. You can even see it in the video. Sometimes people would test damage (not dps) by doing a single hit, or a small salvo of hits and reset the ruin guard after. Genshin has never had a significant damage creep, rather it has had a significant skill creep since players were really dumb when Genshin launched. Though the Liyue trio of Ganyu/Xiao/Hu Tao did set a new standard that all future and past carries would be compared to. 2) Buffs and Nerfs in Genshin: Genshin has historically had very few buffs or nerfs. Zhongli got buffed, as far as I remember it was Xingqiu's E damage that got nerfed (or something about the hydro application of his burst, don't quite know). It actually is quite the testament to Mihoyo's ability to balance character in the short beta time they have because as much as people like to talk hyperbolically, most characters are actually at a very fair power level (obvious missed like Dehya aside). Some of the 1.0 characters are a bit out of wack but to be fair it was new for the developers too and they grew alongside the theorycrafting community. That all being said, Mihoyo has done multiple 'bug fixes' that sometimes affect character power, and they like to use this strategy instead to tune characters after the fact. Other examples include making less 'suckable' enemies to counter Venti and inventing 'corrosion' to counter Zhongli during the times they were hyper dominant.
here to mention the Xingqiu nerf, I believe it was actually from his burst that used to have an insane hydro application, applying hydro per sword rain hits (ie if the sword rain has 3 hits, then it will apply hydro 3 times instead of the usual ICD). I believe this lasted until 1.1 and they nerfed/fixed it soon after. Additionally there was also a bug with his skill, or the dubbed "Instakill Bug" but I think most would already know at this point
@@orewaren8549if we count all Bugfixes, like xingqius e being able to hit a billion times as nerds, then the nerfs coming to my mind are: 1. xingqiu ICD Nerf, from no ICD to Standart icd 2. Turbo fischl Nerf: Fischl used to make one electro particle from every reaction she triggered 3. Barbara application Nerf: Barbara used to apply hydro whenever 3 entities get near her. Dendro cores were counted as entities and thus did chain reactions for close to unlimited blooms 4. Diluc e wavedash (this one was just some weeks ago). Diluc with wavedash was able to just spam his e2, making him the best DPS for some days, while the "bug" was active. Surely there have been more, but that's all I remember
Hoyoverse does not change ANYTHING once it is out, mainly so people who spend can ensure that something they pay potentially hundreds or thousands of dollars on does not get changed afterwards and make them regret the money they spent. This is for better, and for worse. They do all their balance testing during beta pre-release and once something is live that is the final state of that thing. They may introduce mechanics or artifact sets after the fact which make them more or less relevant, but Zhongli is the only character who post launch has been changed in any way, and they stated explicitly that they would never do it again. It was a very big deal to be sure
I was a year late to this party, but had friends who whaled for Zhongli, got disappointed and were part of this movement. The lengths they went through to get Hoyo to buff him and the geo element as a whole. It's thanks to them and all the other people's efforts that I came into the game able to enjoy this underrated element tbh. Triple Crowned Zhongli enjoyer btw. Also, a C6 Triple Crowned Noelle Main. Thank you to all my ancestors that made this possible.
@@diamantritter82 same, I kinda knew he was gonna get buffed so I still pulled also he is literally geo daddy so I had to pull regardless, and now I can never play without him, his shield, buff, and debuffs are too strong to pass even without his signature weapon
The only thing in history I can remember similar to Zhongli-gate is the whole Helldivers 2 fiasco. The community coming together to collectively shit on Mihoyo and rage... Those were the days.
12:09 Albedo helps with dmg, Itto is a main dmg dealer, Ningguang is a dmg dealer and Noelle while looking like a support plays more like a dmg dealer too with her ult literally only buffing her normal and charged attacks by
Zhongli got buffed because of the entirety of the Chinese community outrage. If it's not because of their united voices, along with the death threats, we will not get Zhongli today. But back then, the reason why Zhongli got so much hate is due to the leak on the beta tester. People EXPECT him to be dps. That's what the global community is crying about, not about his supportive capability. The CN community already begin the moblisation on making him supportive and if you can read chinese, I think you can find the remains of their battle in tieba and weibo. I was there during the 1.1 Zhongli controversy. The feeling of getting kicked from coop just because I have Zhongli in my party is crazy. And the amount of sarcasm I got for whaling on him back in 1.1 is a nightmare I don't want to repeat again.
Yeah i never did coop or used him as a full DPS so i didnt experience a lot of what the community felt. I just put a lot of HP on him and used his shield to baby my carries back then.
all in all the result was positive but I believe people should've doubled down and made them buff Geo reactions, if you imagine his old kit in the current state of the game he would feel horrible, I pull the characters I like but I also want to have fun with such characters, I wouldn't pull for Itto because I don't want to have to build his singular team, while I have a lot of fun playing wanderer in many teams while having him as one of my fav characters
@@reginaldmustardbacon5866 I played for Zhongli, so during 1.1 I really don't have a DPS. I only have Zhongli, starter characters, and MC. I really only pulled for Zhongli. So I have no choice but to do coop so I could get artifact, books, etc. Only later on when I gathered the courage to ask my friends for help in domain, I finally have peace.
@@yahyamallouh8987 Back then it was such a big thing. I think everyone just wanted him to be fixed, no one really think what will happen in the future. I didn't participate in them, but it was really horrible.
Yeah I was there too.. He was so bad on release.. Hold E make shield but no pillar and easily interrupted, shield gets broken easily even if u focus full hp. Jinx and tuner was the best theorycrafters out there who can guide alot of f2p and low spender with their character analysis and because of that drama caused them to quit.
I was actually having the same reaction as bro when I was watching this lmao I didn’t know how bad it was I just heard it was needed. We will have hope again if they decide to make qiqi good
I actively use Zhongli in almost everything. I had no idea there was so much issue, I love him and get SO upset whenever I have to remove him for a resonance reason but with him in my party, my party almost never takes damage. Ever. I can go through entire boss fights with weakass babycakes but as long as Zhongli is there, his shield and his pillars and his goddamn METEOR is there for me (every few seconds lol) I can just meander my way through everything. The man. Is a WALL.
my first 5-star that i got out of the his first banner (1.1), was always happy with him even when he didnt go buffs. my dear pre-buff phys dps zhongli still lies deep in my heart
Every major region update they usually debuff foes/bosses that people complain about. They've debuffed ruin guards and wandering ronin/samurai's. Buff's and debuffs for playable characters is the rare/unlikely thing, Bennets has always gave +15% pyro to party in his field after special at c6 for it applies to all and has no limitation but the wording messed people up and only see and thought of the sword/pole/claymore thing. I main klee so realizing this in 1.0 for a free 15% pyro was nice, it took them till Sumeru(3.0 so over two years) release to fix the wording in Bennett's special but it wasnt changed so not a buff/debuff.
He was my first 5 star and despite his release state, I actually had a lot of fun running him with physical build and crescent pike and killing everything with style. I practiced his combos all the time. To this day when I have zhongli equipped and just waiting for smth in game I start doing them combos out of habit lmao.
Its simply because people dont have the proper resource to use him to the fullest, or not a fan of backloaded damage. Not everything is about dmg numbers, tho they represent a huge part
man its so large copium geo is bad and u cant deny that evry single reaction give u much more dmg than geo itself is just yellow phsicial@@BulletSponge71436
I started playing December 21st 2020 this whole drama was my first genshin community moment I was too new so it was just vibes for me i was saving for xiao
still remember back in that day ppls include me used zhongli with crescent pike 😂 for normal atk combos kicking spear with charge atk. cuz community really want he being dps.even they named the combos "Damage is Temporary, Style is Eternal" 😂
18:45 The title of tectone’s second video is actually sarcastic 😂 - But what’s more, they like to nerf fun stuff under the guys of “bug fixes” like Barbara’s Bloom production. But they also merged Barbara’s Healing Radius for no reason whatsoever.
fun fact, even after buffs, atk% still does more dmg than hp% the math: assuming lvl 90, r1 homa 90, and ult lvl 10 1% atk = 8,59 atk = 77,31 dmg 1% hp = 146,95 hp and homa tranfers to 2,64 atk, the atk part will do 23,76 dmg one of his passives converts hp into dmg, so 146,95 hp = 48,49dmg so... 1% hp = 72,25 dmg but with hp you can have a mix build, ~30k hp and ~2k atk
IIRC 1. Every single one of his attacks was garbage since there's no HP scaling. 2. His shield was only marginally stronger than Diona, who can heal+battery as well. 3. No elemental+physical res shred including Geo resonance. 4. Easily interrupted during [hold] skill. Another big controversial we had was Raiden. Beidou burst will not proc during Raiden burst because it's not considered "normal attack" but that pales in comparison to Zhongli fiasco.
The part with Diona, it has another context. Abyss 12 back then hadn't changed yet and there's a chamber with all enemies in there are cyro making Diona's shield far stronger than it seems. There was no geo damage as well. The only one that I remember was from geo hypostasis. The rest like geo slime deal physical damage.
the after and before thing is Chinese, and it has nothing to do with which direction you read/write it is just that the concept of after and before is reversed for instance if you wanted to say the day after tomorrow you would instead say the day before tomorrow, and instead of the day before yesterday you would say the day after yesterday.
I find it funny that CN talked about "false advertisement" for Zhongli and that the huge drama led to buff him. Meanwhile for Dehya, the livestream was a total sh*tshow : couldn't hit with her last NA on an ennemy, couldn't kill a simple hydro slime and was horrible for reactions (while in the stream, we were told she was great at it). And that's without ALL OF her other problems. But not a single buff for her... I guess that being the god of China's representation helps a lot, right?
They can't afford to buff or nerf something that ppl might've spent like 2k dollars to get or skip. there would be even more uproar or even legal repercussions
Basically he got reverse Akali'd. Big man god should do free damage. But small rando girl should do zero damage. At least Rito didn't fully bow to the pressure and made her a big girl god instead of piling on nerfs. The edgy gamer bois tried to strike Akali down and she became more powerful than they could possibly imagine.
So the Genshin team doesn't do balance changes *at all* in live. iirc Zhongli remains the *only* character to have ever gotten official balance changes to their kit in live. 1.1 Zhongli's skill did pillar on press and shield on hold. Everything scaled on attack and his shield was only effective against geo. The buffs in live are what gave him the parts of his kit outside of those that you're used to. It's hard imagining that this dev team has any comunication whatsoever with the honkai dev teams.
I was playing at this time but I don't remember anything about this. XD I skipped his banner because I didn't have the primos and I hadn't even gotten to liyue yet. I would not have even noticed if he was bad; venti has always been pretty meh to me so I wasn't expecting anything great from zhongli
Honestly I wish they reverted his beta test nerf instead of what they buffed him. His old ult used to be longer and also increase physical+geo damage taken, 2 of the weakest damage types. He also had Geo autos at some point. At least he was interesting then. Now he's just an OP shield bot that inexplicably buffs all damage against nearby unconditionally. Yawn.
Intstead of the genshin dev team actually doing buff/nerfs to characters like any other game (Since genshin is actually a gacha game there actual laws in the chinese government that forbids you to make drastic changes to a character onces it launches since in china gatcha characters are considered final products thus if someone spends money on a character and then they are later nerfed directly for whatever reason that could be considered false advertising and misguiding the consumer, thats why most gacha games don't even do nerfs, they only usually buff and do some "hot fix" to get around it.) Genshin however avoids this by either adding enemies or mechanics that counter certain characters (corosion to nerf shielders, heavier enemies to counter anemo cc and ventis ult just as some examples). They also buff characters bt giving them a tailored made artifact set or weapon. But we do ocasionally get some bad apples like yae miko when she first arrived, the whole Raiden not working with beidou situation, Dehya as a whole, countless 4 stars that are not functional at c0 and literally requiere c6 to even compete with 1.0 four stars, etc. Then we have the whole "Genshin sells you the soultion first than introduce the problem later" (Releasing kokomi who is dedicated healer befor releasing the corrosion mechanic that ignores shields and forces you to run a healer) or the "Genshin introduces the problem first than sells the solution later" (This usually happens when they introduce a character, in this case Yae miko was introduced first but was considered a 5 star fishl that was worse than later they gave gave us dendro along with nahida that makes her actually viable and good) This last one about selling the solution later also happens with artifacts and 4 star dediacted supports that are meant to compliment some character that came before. I personally do think it is shitty when they do the last one; I want them to release functional charcters that are usable not them giving us some character that doesn;t function just cause the artifacts set, thier 4 star dedicated supported has been released and the new mobs that are going to be weak to said new character haven't been added it. I know why they do it but its still really scummy once you see the way they release things.
I never had the privilege to play pre nerf zhongli, super glad i got him on the re run tho. my most op team is Zhogn Itto Goro and a flex like kazuha fischle tignari whatever element i need to break a shield. I can't wait until you can pull/play Itto he's soooo friggen legit in a trio geo team comp.
Saying that Hoyoverse never buffs or nerfs characters is only half right. They indirectly do both often. They just generally don't change character kits post release.
It’s not half right. It is right. They do try their best to make a finished product before release. The only reason why people thinks this is buff and nerfs is because people had access to beta info. And surprise surprise characters GET changed before release. What you are saying about indirect buff and nerf, first of all, there is no such thing as them doing an indirect nerf, have there ever been an instance that a character got weaker because of a newly released one? A small power-creep maybe but not a nerf. Xingque was kind of a netf but it was more of a bug fix since it wasn’t changes on numbers but their lack of foresight when they released Xinque with this broken ass application. So basically it was a fix, though it did weaken Xinque but it was never intended to do application like that. The only buff that happened are Zhongli. Thats all for character specific. But Anemo, Geo and Hydro resonance were buffed.
@@banir3736 by indirect buff he means they make specific artifacts for them or characters that combo well with them, for example faruzan was a big buff to xiao. Or the artifacts and gorou that were made for itto was a massive buff to noelle. Nilou on launch was okay but is not till you pair her with nahida that becomes great etc... They really like making other units upgrade others since it's what gives em money.
Ok, idk if it is just mihoyo or gacha games in general but isn't the fact that (besides the one exception) they have NEVER buffed or nerfed characters post release in a live service game a pretty big deal? Might be a pretty cool topic to explore in a video.
ive played multiple gacha games and as far as i know, the unwillingness to buff characters is a mihoyo thing. i have a feeling theyre scared of getting sued since their players would.. absolutely do that.
Albedo actually a defensive unit full em crystalize shield generator but it's bad so it's better use him as a sup DPS and this way elemental mastery buff is something
Zhongli was my first 5 star since release. I remember having to build him with a crescent pike and noblese because he was such a useless chara we had to make do with his burst lol
Context for Tectone trilogy: 1. makes video talking about how Zhongli is actually great (before the buffs) 2. makes clickbait title/thumbnail pretending he is taking back the previous statement 3. makes third video saying Zhongli buffs set a precedent and now the community is gonna bully Hoyo into buffing every new character and we're gonna get insane powercreep in the game
Good thing you never experience the most disappointing unit in game despite representation for China. Zhongli is so bad unit back from 1.1 Zhongli receive buff and include his Geo Resonance.
I accidentally pulled John Lee a couple of days ago lol… I built up my pity to like 18 over the span of like a month, wanted to pull ONCE for the heck of it, ended pulling Zhongli and now my pity’s back up to 90-100 😫😫😫… There goes my chance for Neuvillette or Wriothsley or Chlorinde or Mommycchino unless I farm the shit out of the game. Which seems kinda impossible with Starfield and Phantom Liberty already out and Spider-Man 2 coming out 😭😭😭
well you get 20 free pulls for tomorrows 3 Year aniversery if you log in 7 days strait not that that helps much to get to they 80-90 pity and having to win a 50/50 on top of it
@@biglion4631 GL man i pulled for Zong Lii as well had saved up for a pity lost the 50/50 and went 60 in to get him now for Nuvilalatte I'm in the red on jems. More or less in same boat as you 30 pulls in don't have him yet probably with the 20 free pulls and events I'll get to pity before the end of the banner but I also need to win the 50/50 I'm so scared. Best of luck in wining that 50/50 to both of us
so fun fact, pity actually spikes around pulls 75-79, going up to almost 20% of a 5 star. each version gives us around 50 pulls of content. if you have content you havent done yet, add that on top. realistically, you can actually get one 5 star every patch.
@@kittycastle_ Wow! Thanks, didn’t know that. I did see on the pity calculator website that it said the chance for getting a 5-Star with a ONE pull after my pity reached 18 was around 6.5%, so I guess I should’ve paid more attention to that lol. But I’ve started already pulling, so hopefully I’ll pull all the daddy’s and mommy’s (and one kid) this time!
Hoyoverse / Mihoyo way of "fixing" old, outdated, out-shinned characters/battlesuits. Giving them new weapons and stigmatas or giving them an augmanted updgrade. For some, it work really well. For others, not so much. I thing thats how they will "fix" all characters that players feels under-perfomed or out-shinned for all of Mihoyo's game. By realesing new weapons, artifact set, or just like how they fix electro by making it synergize really well with dendro. But Zhongli is the only exception.
I mean Geo is still kind of meh outside of mono geo cause it has zero interaction with any other element. And Zhongli's only real value is in providing IR, Shield and resistance shred.
to be fair, after all those buffs people only make uses of shield's resistance shred and ignored every damage buff he got from hp scaling anyway. since thicc shield is has more value than Zhongli hybrid especially when abyss can shred his shield super fast if not go full shield build. some might play him as physical dps for meme. altho even now he was considered being one of strongest physical dps up-to-date below eula thanks to OP crescent pike. also at the time of release everyone was so hype of him being chad archon in trailer and fully build him dps all the way. not even single soul even dare to try build him as pure shielder or at least let him equip 3star black tassel (I literally can't find any youtube vid of his build using black tassel aka. *slime spear* back in the day) so most of people think of him as "he's weak as dps and his shield wasn't good either (using signature)" or "why having weak shield if you have *Qiqi for better heal*" etc etc. as Qiqi mains back in day1.. I'm so proud xD
his microwave buld with albedo is good but it fails to make up for the shitty reaction crystalize is, many of the Geo issue would be fixed with a rework to the element, and I imagine an off field Geo infuser would work very well with him too
haha the days of old 1.0, I like how nowadays support is several times more valuable than a DPS because of how the game itself works, gauge theory, reactions, and character interaction with other characters make up most of genshin impact combat mechanics.
His shield pre buff was half the size it is now and you could get hit out of the animation. Also props for him having energy issues with a 40 cost burst.
@@luminous3558 for correction his shield stats-wise doesn't change at all in term of thickness (same number). however, the changes of geo resonance and geo shield adjustment overall was the real one that improved his shield by A LOT (also Noelle's too as she was only geo shielder at that time beside Zhongli)
Why people care about dehya that much, why people didn't whine about qiqi and diluc when Klee powercreeped him?? People weren't that desperate about these characters to get a buff
@@restart6358 people arent just mad about Dehya being weak, they mad about Dehya isnt even a functional character her dogshit tier damage is just one of many reason
The funniest part is geo is still trash, and Zhongli is very mediocre, the only thing thats saves him is the utility of having a very tanky shield for not skilled players and to provide protection and resistance to interruption to kamikaze berserker dps characters, other than that his dmg is trash, the resistance reduction doesnt make up for it and his geo app can ruin better reactions.
The bumb thing is how for years now people dont say a goddamn thing about Zhongli for his attacks, hell noone even cares about his ult. The fact that the only reason Zhongli is used in teams having nothing to do with his buffs shows how flawed early theory crafting is.
Almost any use of Zhongli is for a shield and the res shred. The res shred was part of the second round of buffs. Without the buffs to both him and geo no one would use him today. Even now he only has two teams outside of mono-geo where he is the best option.
He is used for his shield and the res shred, both things that either didnt exist or were awful before. The change to geo shields makes his shield almost 2x the size and the interrupt resist preserves your will to live. Stop trying to revise history.
I forget how DUMB peoples in this community back then. the Asian side was pretty chill about him on release...the only complain i heard is he don't shield other(co-op) and his charge cd is abit long. they agree they neft him a bit too hard...all he do is a big shield. so just a single wall with a big downtimes(like 12s of downtimes or something) and sometimes a AOE stun. in the 1st week i saw video of Zhongli tank the whale of childe and walk out un harm(a whale so his artifact is crack) is on basic and burst skill just change to a press also gave shield normally is still base on HP% also the scaling is up a bit.
I spent my christmas bonus to get him on his first release. He is good enough. And on TECTONE's video series, he is just baiting. He is one of the few that thinks Zhongli is good on release. The buff was just QOL update.
he had hp scalings for his shield and burst only but it wasnt for his normal attack dmg, i saw theorycrafters not even using hp artifacts when testing him, we didnt have the artifacts to have a proper idea how strong a character would be but people ran with it and it was so dumb people are stupid
Without the changes to geo resonance and the res shred added to Zhongli's kit in the second round of buffs no one would use him today. He'd be next to Amber and Xinyan in corner gathering dust. Adding Hp scaling to his normal attacks was mostly pointless.
