To add salt to the injury, there had been an image floating around of 5 Type 052DL under construction at the same time in a single dockyard in Dalian. That’s more than the number of destroyers that the Royal Navy can put to sea at the moment.
in Bohai they just finished the new yard for Subs crazy as it sounds 20 construction halls. Not saying they will build 20 ssn/ssbn at one time but they can....insane
@tylerrr3242 They are aware of that, they studied the Soviet Union's collapse intently, but tbh right now the Chinese navy is undersized for its economy, especially since they are decommissioning a lot of old vessels. The new standardized vessels will actually streamline maintenance and also reduce costs of upkeep with the expertise in construction developed, plus the civilian shipyards experience (China produces like 45+% of world's ships, South Korea the other half or so.
The "TV antenna" is for the type-517 radar, it looks that way because it's made up of multiple Yagi antennas operating in the VHF band. The longer wavelengths of VHF band give the radar a better chance of detecting stealth aircraft, since longer wavelengths can result in electromagnetic scattering in the Mie or Rayleigh regions which is less affected by optical region scattering due to stealth shaping techniques.
I am British but have always said we need to double the amount of VLS silos on board our Type 45, as it is an anti air destroyer, but I feel they insufficient amount of missiles carried for that role.
@@montys420- Yes, to part of the ship that was designed for the MK41 VLS. Apparently there may even be room for Sylver A70 cells further astern of where the CAMM launchers are going.
They are currently upgrading the weapons systems in the type 45's, of which one of the upgrads increases the amount of missiles each ship has from 48 to 72
Yeah the Royal Navy doesn’t have AWACS planes so they just use a bunch of AWACS merlin helicopters which is actually better than a single AWACS because if one goes down the others just account for it
@@armymanaka360 Type 45 can in theory carry one Merlin HM1/HM2 or two Lynxes, The HM1 has better air surveillance capabilities but is still primarily an anti-surface type, the Lynx is optimised for surface search. There are a handful of Merlin HM2s some of which are fitted with Crowsnest air surveillance RADAR - these are in such short supply they will be reserved for carrier operations. So while in theory Type 45 can carry (and is cleared to carry) the “AWAC” anti-air variant of Merlin - it does not in practice due to a severe shortage of those types.
@@armymanaka360 Sure in exercises they will deploy them but in reality there aren't enough Merlins to satisfy actual RN requirements - particularly those fitted with Crowsnest.
@@armymanaka360No competent navy puts up a single a wax plane at a time. Let's take a look at the US navy. Aboard every single Carrier, there's 4 a wax planes. And there's 2 a wax being used when in a combat environment. And if you can shoot down an a rocks plane, you are probably able to shoot down an a wax helicopter a whole lot easier.
Would love to see the german F124 in DCS. 32 cells with mostly ESSM and some SM-2`s, as well as 2 RAM-Launchers with each 21 missiles. 8 NSM and 2 MLG 27 CIWS from Rheinmetall. As far as I know there are also 3D Models of the ship available online.
Asters, especially the 30s are much much better than modded here. They are known to be better than the American SM family missiles when paired with the type 45’s incredibly powerful and accurate radars. Yes, I agree they don’t have enough but I’m afraid the Type 45’s and the asters are much much better than modded in DCS.
The YJ-18 is not China's most advanced anti-ship missile. However, the YJ-21 is, a hypersonic weapon. And the firing range is 800-1000km. As long as their relay guidance system is reliable. It is quite capable of launching a fatal attack on enemy ships from a distance of 900km.
@@ahboon8101 A range of 2000 kilometers is impossible. The official parameters released by the Chinese military are: full flight at Mach 6, terminal speed at Mach 10
Yeah but just a simple manouver and you are defeated that "ultimate" weapon... Hypersonic right? When the missile enters back to the atmosphere it will build up a "plasma" around itself because of the thickness of the air... The plasma will block everything. Guidance systems the missile radars everything. They will just fly to the "last known location". A quick reaction and a change of direction from the ships will defeat that missile. There is no way with that powerfull radar what the Type 45 got can not see a freaking missile coming down from the "space..." S band AESA Radar with 400km range like come on... Hypersonic missiles are good vs stationary targets... Go read about them and research about them. + the problem here too is the way how the Type 45 vessels wasting 10 missiles on 1 target.... One target one missile, this is what the Royal Navy stated. One target one missile... Not 10 missiles to the same target, thats wasting... Like literally wasting.... 1 target 1 Aster 30 or 15 depending on the range. Shame that it doesnt work in DCSs... Same about the Chinese Type 052D or 055 just wasting missiles for nothing. ONE TARGET ONE MISSILE. Such an easy thing to fix in the game but the DCs developers dont care about it.
@@sulyokpeter3941 The important parameters of the YJ-21 supersonic anti-ship missile were officially disclosed, this missile can carry out hypersonic cruise flight at a speed of Mach 6, and its terminal attack stage speed can reach up to Mach 10, which is also the world's first combat deployment of shipborne hypersonic anti-ship missiles, with 6 times the speed of sound cruise flight and 10 times the speed of sound terminal attack, the current global active air defense and anti-missile interception systems, can not carry out effective interception methods. Hypersonic missiles rely on infrared guidance to strike moving targets.
Fantastic! now china finally has all its principle surface combatants modelled. I guess what you could try to implement next would be some Type 022s fast attack boats or wait for the Type 054B to come out this year.
Dang! SEIZURE WARNING 7:56 That muzzle flash off the 30mm made my brain hurt lol. To CH, could you be persuaded to add another camera angle for firing ship guns that is further back away from the muzzle flash? It obscures the impact. We like to see our booms. 🙂
Said this on the previous video and I'll say again here. Sorry, but the Type 45 just isn't modelled correctly. They were literally designed to track and destroy targets like the YJ-18. Here's a quote from 2009: "Daring’s PAAMS air defence system can track over 1,000 objects simultaneously and order the ship’s 48 Aster missiles to destroy a tennis-ball sized target travelling at Mach 3." That is a harder target than the YJ-18. They also do this with an almost 90% efficacy rate due to their thrust-vectoring known as 'pif-paf'. Type 45s have the ability to deconflict targets with other Type 45s and NATO ships. On the mod, not only were lots of missiles missing, but they were also not being deconflicted at all.
@@hughmungus2760 they shouldn't be *that* difficult to shoot down in their terminal phase either. Mach 3 isn't that much of a challenge anymore. Type 45 has been doing tests as far back as 2020 against hypersonic targets and, while not perfect, it has faired better than a lot of people expected it to. This will be improved with the upgraded Sea Cepter that was discussed in the video. It'll also likely mean the removal of the Aster15 missiles and replaced with a full compliment of 48 Aster 30. But even before this, the YJ-18 should simply be an easy target for the Type 45 with a deconflicted almost 1-1 kill ratio, because that's exactly what this ship was designed to do and was capable of doing it way back in 2009.
@@LondonSteveLee same goes for most missiles, but they have been used extensively in testing and they have a great reputation for a reason. Friend of mine was serving on one during some NATO training before the ABs got their latest upgrades. He said that the rest of the NATO ships asked for the Type 45s to stop reacting because none of the other NATO ships were getting any training value. The Type 45 was detecting, tracking, engaging, and destroying all of the targets before the other ships could start tracking them.
@@skatman3278 Yes, they are bleeding edge in a few ways - interesting that the modelling chose to use ASTER 30 in engagements where ASTER 15 would be the correct choice. ASTER 15 has enough problems with minimum engagement profile - let alone ASTER 30! Terrible modelling.
Not all of them will be able to be used chines navy is more of a coastal defence force lacks logistics to even go fair britian will use type23 frigates along with the 45a and f35bs plus the rest of NATO’s navel power witch fight together
Proves why Type 45 defiantly needs the extra CAMM cells..... Not sure if it could be modelled but the ASTER missile uses a Piff-Paff system for terminal maneuvering specifically for dealing with very fast anti ship missiles and to give (probably) best in class terminal maneuvering ability, which doesn't seem to be fully accounted for here. has the very low RCS of NSM also been modelled?
Sea Ceptor was supposed to be the solution to the lack of missile problem, freeing up VLS cells for all ASTER 30s, or a mixture of ASTER 30 and NT if we decide to buy in to the project - NATO want us to convert Type 45 into a fully-fledged anti ICBM platform - the RADAR has already passed trials in this application. But constant critical underfunding has left Type 45 in a pitiful state.
The problem with the Type-45 is that it only has one set of VLS whereas the Type-052Ds and Type-055s have two. The Type-45 is what happens when you build a warship on a budget that has been gutted to nothing. One future battle I would love to see is a combined flotilla of 052Ds and 055s vs a combined flotilla of Burkes and Ticos.
Yes it's criminal - when the Navy accepted the order to be cut to 6 (from 12) Destroyers the promise was the remaining 6 are fully equipped to their full potential - pah - nowhere near!
@@georgedang449 true but the missiles do seem more effective when they fire later on and intercept with more speed. Also, as they discuss in the video, the Chinese missile should be subsonic until the terminal phase when it goes supersonic
I think the prices of the type-45s wrong - you are quoting the first in class, which was sold/billed to the government with a lot of testing/debug work attached to it. In contrast, when I looked it up in Hansard, HMS Dragon had a "net book value" of £343m one year after launch, which is what the giovernment had spent on it in total up to that point.
I know that there is some issues and possibly some inaccuracies with the type 45 but I do hope that in the future we will get the type 45 with its upgraded SAMPSON multifunction radar plus it's extra Sea ceptor missiles and it's upgraded Aster 30 block 1 NT missile's !!
Loving all of CH's work. Would be cool if he added the Zumwalt with its hypersonic missile refit. I know it's a bit of a disaster of a ship in reality, but man do I love it anyway.
Can you mod the Chinese fleets so they actually try a saturation attack, rather than so much waiting? At minimum, it seems they should shoot at least 2-3 ASMs per target per salvo.
052D actually does carry some HMGs like type 89 HMG and other small arms operating by onboard marines/ship crews. There are lots of pictures and video shows those 052Ds carry mounted HMGs in any operation involving anti-piracy mission. However, I doubt those HMG pods are modified by the ship crews/onboard marines.
YJ18 will be pulled up and accelerated to Mach 3 in the last period of attack, so this simulator does not actually simulate the real attack mode of YJ18.
Can you guys model the Chinese Sovremenny-class destroyer after its refitting? They installed new missile systems on Hangzhou (136) and enchanced its air defences. I think China will upgrade in the similar way the rest three vessels of Sovremenny-class in their posession.
The thing that makes the Chinese navy so dangerous isn't just that their ships pack so many missiles. It's that all of their modern ships are built to form a single integrated force. The 055 and 052D for example are practically the same ship, just one is (a lot) bigger. That means ships share the same systems which greatly simplifies operations and makes them more effective when working together. It also means it's a lot easier to train crew as knowledge and skills will translate between vessels. It makes the ships cheaper too because of economies of scale, which also makes them faster to build, repair and easier to upgrade. An added benefit to all of that is the momentum of development in the Chinese navy. Due to the sheer number of ships being build the navy as well as the shipyards gain a lot of experience very quickly. We see this being translated in fast incremental upgrades to their ships. For example, the first type 055 ships were built with engines producing 30% more power than needed, implying improvements were already expected, and indeed there are already rumors that the latest type 055 ships under construction will be commissioned as type 055A upgraded ships. The same goes for the type 054 frigates. With 50 planned type 054A ships, of which 30 are commissioned and another 20 are either still planned or already under construction. While at the same time, China launched the first type 054B in August, with a second to be launched soon and possibly more already under construction. There simply isn't any other navy in the world that can produce that many ships at that speed. Let alone continuously upgrade them as they are building them.
052D use the same VLS as 055, so they would have YJ-21 as well. 055 is basically a bigger 052 with better sensors and sub systems, they uses the same weapons
Very entertaining video once again, thank you for chucking out content in this rate. Just one small thing. Could you make the money counter a little bit bigger? Because it's kinda hard to read, you have to really focus. If it was a little bigger it still wouldn't block the screen but it would be easier to read.
Yes, but modern AESA RADAR should have that capability too - Type 45 can track "stealth" aircraft at the maximum range dictated by the earth's curvature without resorting to longer wavelength RADAR. It shows that the Chinese systems are inferior to the Wests' - as long as they work I guess...
Can you give the ASMs a more unpredictable path to their targets rather than just firing them all on the same vector? In real life the NSM can be programmed to fly to different waypoints, ect before reaching their targets.
Great video. I recently did some testing and found that 5 Visbys could take down a 055 but I'm not certain I set it up correctly. Might be worth running through your tests.
Our testing also showed the US can't handle a simple coronavirus outbreak. Over a million dead for a weapon that can be reengineered for less than a million bucks
Binkov says that one ship like this, specifically the one helecopter, could have completely changed the battle of Midway. I wonder if you guys could validate his assumptions.
My suggestion to our dear British friends is to build your type 26 frigates as the upgunned missile frigate variant currently being offered to the Australian Navy, whereby the multi mission bay is being sacrificed and replaced with a second VLS ( 64 cells) giving it a total of 96 VLS & four quad packs of NSM ( ie 16 anti ship missiles )
@@timphillips9954 "years late for WW2", bro, the fuck you talking about? Without the US Navy safeguarding convoys across the Atlantic, the Brits would never have held out through the blitz while also keeping their interests in the Mediterranean secure. If the US Navy hadn't been taking that load, the Royal Navy would have had to write off North Africa entirely.
Again there is the issue of not the target not turning out from the threat. Maybe wouldn't be that helpful but it would allow for overlapping coverage.
Try the same scenario without the fixed wing airborne early warning platforms giving 20/20 battle space vision. Airborne early warning should only come from the aircraft the Destroyers can carry and operate themselves. That way it wouldn't be solely down to who has the biggest magazine of missiles.
ED should just hire the guy. Very high quality mods like this or stuff like the A4 or SRS would be an enrichment for DCS if they were included by default. At the very least an automatic mod downloader for joining servers that have mods, or an automatic updater would be nice.
How about we put the type 052D up against an Australian Hobart Class AWD! - Particularly since it will soon be replacing its current load of Harpoon2s with SM2, SM6, LRASMs and NSMs as well as the TOMAHAWK5bs for maritime strike. ( also ESSM quad pack)
How about making a match between Kirov Battle Cruiser and type 052d, please? I am curious about comparing a 7000tons modern destroyer with a 20000tons old cruiser.
Surely if you were a naval weapon designer making weapons that might be used against Chinese vessels, you'd be giving them attack patterns that prefer frontal approach to take out the C&C first and avoid the close-in missile systems? Also, if you can't link the ships for whatever reason, why do 4v4 and not just 1v1?
@@hughmungus2760 Yeah I get that, I just mean IRL, having seen that the new Chinese ships seem to have a bunch of their defensive weapons at the rear half of the ship.
All british/european stuff is way underpowered in all these videos. The aster 30 struggling to take down the chinese missiles when there have been multiple tests confirming aster 30 can shoot down supersonic (mach 2.5) ski skimming missiles
Avoiding or denying the existence of the problem is not a healthy coping strategy. Nor is it healthy to get angry or surrender yourself to the problem. Better to accept the problem, and start fixing it. In this context, it means the Royal Navy (and European navies in general) needs more and better warships. Preferably ASAP.
@lukio12 Exactly that, the GQM-163 Coyote is both smaller in diameter and length than the YJ-18 while flying a sea-skimming height of 5m and flying over mach 2.5 The Aster-30 was tested and succeeded against this, the same target drones the US uses. These same drones can fly at up to mach 4 terminal speed if flying from a higher altitude before doing a terminal dive. YJ-18 estimated at about 24' in length and 20" diameter, Coyote is about 18' in length and 14" diameter. I think it'd be more fair to also model decoys for other ships. For example, Arleigh Burke can have up to 8 Nulka and with Mk36 it'd be 36 more decoys since it uses mod 12 and it could potentially be FLYRT as the decoys loaded up. Not to mention the IDS300 floating decoys used also by the Royal Navy
The CWIS is amazing, but the muzzle flash is way too pronounced, you can barely see what you're shooting at... should be reduced or optionally even able to be turned off entirely.
I'd have to disagree a bit with the destroyer v destroyer duels because the west and the east(?) have different doctrines. While China and Russia use their ships as their main attackers(maybe for now, in China's case), western navies use aircraft as their main attackers. Hence Chinese and Russian ships tend to, if not always, have more and better anti-ship weaponry that their western counterparts. Anyway, props to CH for making another well done model!
Ships are the hidden Gem of DCS... Would be great if they created a standard bridge to control these awesome machines instead of having to use the F10 menu.
speaking of cruiserweight destroyers, any chance of the Zumwalt? especially since without pesky things like budget concerns you could give it the guided 100nm range shells that were intended for it's guns.
Wasn't a budget concern, it's a physical limitation. To make a projectile that fast causes an absurd amount of friction limiting the barrels to a few shots before they completely disintegrate. To date this issue has never been solved which is why railguns have never left testing.
Fun video but like a lot of the naval scenario videos it just doesn’t factor in tactics what so ever. It’s a given the Chinese win these as they carry more missiles but introduce tactics and it changes. Each T45 carries a Wildcat helicopter and each wildcat can carry 4 sea venom ASM which would surly be used in any conflict even if it’s just diversionary. Clearly the Royal Navy is mostly a toothless tiger now days but introduce tactics and I suspect it would be a far closer run thing.
If British has tactics, Chinese has tactics too, and sorry, Chinese has been playing with military tactics for thousands of years. Nothing will change the result here.
They are better than Harpoons but be aware, the NSM is specifically designed to be an interim missile whilst FC/ASW is being developed. Hence the reason we bought them over the much, much more expensive LRASM’s and the like. They are purely a.m stop gap measure.
Hi Cap, I know Its Not the most important thing on your argenda but i wanted to ask you If you could maybe model the German F 125 class or the F 221. Greetings fromm Germany PS: I would be Happy If you could answer me
Where did you hear about PAC-3 integration into the Arleigh Burke's Aegis Combat System? The SM-6 already fulfills that role in essence, as does SM-2 and ESSM for much shorter ranges. Plus, SM-3 is there for all sorts of longer ranged ballistic missiles. The SM-3 BlkIIA is even capable of intercepting ICBMs at some stages of flight
Every country seems to be focusing on fast or stealth anti ship missiles... why nobody is working on stealth anti ship missiles... that at some point go underwater to sink the ships? Ships have great anti-air capabilities but how many have great anti-torpedos capabilities as good as anti air defenses?? Where are the hypersonic torpedoes?
A good last ditch defence in my armchair opinion would be large caliber metal storm guns to absolutely shred incoming missiles. Seriously go have a look at metal storm and see if it was of no use as a cwis option.
It’s not about which ship has slight edge. China shipyards can build entire royal navy tonnage in a year. It’s not even a comparison of same class navies
