Niall Ferguson | The Utopian Myth of Equality |  

So sad he did not see the correlation! Hopefully one night he will have an epiphany

Myopia

That's why he was self-selected by his intellect to be an English teacher. We all have our limitations.

Marxists would never argue for equality of outcome. They argue for control of the means of production.

Most teachers have no business teaching. They’re worse than boat anchors and the statistics prove it.

No freedom is never permission to do anything and whatever is immoral. Rev Martin Luther Kings says in his letter ftom Birmingham Jail an immoral law is no law at all.

Until criminal politicians in Washington DC have to adhere to the same laws as us peasants- there is no equality. Prove me wrong.

@@aaabaaab3945 So we should allow the criminal politicians to legislate equality of outcomes? How does that work? Your point is not an argument that equality of outcome is a more favorable condition.

you call these two good thinkers? you might want to think about that (if you can)

Good thinker? Isn't Anderson just a former deputy PM of Australia with a RU-vid channel?

Or is it possible that they see the cards are stacked against them and no matter what effort they put fourth they will always be working to line the pockets of the grotesquely rich. Y’all don’t want a socialist state, then pay folks an ethical and dignified wage and history’s little experiment won’t have to repeat itself.

@@jefflawrence5835 I quite agree that a lot of people in our society have the cards stacked against them, but they are rarely the people screaming about the inequalities in life, the section of society I'm talking about are those who get a lot of the breaks, such as being born into moderately well off families and get to go to higher education and then complain about it all!

The spiteful mutants

He sure does. Come to think of it Sowell has excellent interviews about a lot of subjects. The mans work is impeccable.

Envy is a curse

Brilliantly stated

There are three 'E's that are a problem in varied proportions. Together they are pathologically synergistic. These three are Ego Envy and Entitlement Mentality Each of these has been touched on already in this short thread before my comment. I don't think it is just pure coincidence that these specific things would become evident to critical thinkers pondering the broader topic. The much tougher thing of course is what should people do with regard to these problems upon realization how much of a threat to civilization they actually pose.

@@paulrevere2379 and where did you copy and paste that from, mate? 🙄

@@Papa1Smurf1 Not your standard compliment, but I will accept it with a word of encouragement. I began to identify these issues years ago. I did not coin the term Entitlement Mentality but it accurately describes the newest of the three issues. So far as I know, I am the only one who frequently includes them together. I am also involved in resisting various broader social pathologies, those things that bring down civilization at the level of large group dynamics in contrast to these which are at the personal level. There is no similar mnemonic that I know of for those bigger (numerically, not qualitatively) society/government dynamics, but I wish there were. If I discover such a thing by someone better at words than I am then I hope I will not be negligent to give them credit. For me, I am not looking for any. I simply wish for people to be more mindful of virtue and all that goes with it. Standing up for things virtuous is an even better position to take in our present age when most virtuous things are under attack.

Says the Aryans who spread a virus and used its impact on the Americas to dominate. A new world is born boy, and you will know your place in it barbarian!

Depressingly true. Skulking mediocrity in keeping one's head below the parapet and not being ostentatious or having gratuitous displays of wealth and especially silent of contra popular opinions to the woke narrative.

Thats largely why they say people over thirty really don't get involved in political activity. You look at something like climate change and most of those people are young people, in particular young women. This article doesn't seem like a rationale to placate YOU, but to keep you and I from joining women, minorities, or other groups who are TRYING to even the playing field by rejecting them and sayign "what you ask is not possible". Because of course part of that 'white privelege' is the assumption that equality of some measure exists and we benefit from it, and the rest shouldn't expect it. For US we already largely have that. So again, a cop pulls me over for a vehicle infraction, I don't have MUCH fear I'm going to end up dead-unless I lose and start screaming or something. But thats exactly what Black Lives Matter is fighting for, they are saying "when we get stopped by a cop we shouldn't be a afraid for our lives". Which is a pretty reasonable measure of equality. Two weeks ago an african student was killed, and the bodycam 'not available'. So to lots of people this is NOT 'hypothetical'. You dont really give any examples, I don't know if you mean that "we don't all get to be millionaires but we don't all get to be bums", which is true but I don't think the biggest issue with equality.

Very wise.

@DnB and Psy Production Yep that is what I said.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Mh9I56J3f4Q.html Howdy?

Niall is a genius and a very wise man we should be listening to in the US and UK

Scandinavian countries dont spend much on defence and that's one reason you can spare more cash for oth3er things.

@@srisivaraman8063 That is true, and because we are a free society we don't need to spend much on internal security apparatus either so we can invest all this wealth in new business, education and welfare instead (or waste it on climatechange NGO's quotas lol). Maybe this will change with Russia/China alliance?

You have oil money.. changes everything.. doesn't count for the rest of us.

@@rosswatson9144 Oil only accounts for 10% of State Revenue, it is small businesses that fuel Norway, we are not Venezuela, Qatar or Saudi Arabia, keep coping. We take care of our private economic sector with low corporate taxes. You need to fix you.

Keep questioning - eventually you will sow the seeds of doubt in enough people which will germinate into a force for change. Stay strong - better to be a seen as a 'radical' than not being true to yourself.

"A fair go". The Aussie "Fair go".

​@@buildmotosykletist1987 equality of opportunity is expected to have different outcomes from a diverse population - it equity thats the issue- single level outcomes are forces or lied about . all people have different skills and levels - you all cannotcome first in the race .

@Life Is Good people are not born equal , they have inherited traits , some good , some bad. to say my disabled daughter was born equal of an able person is a pi$$ take. As for nurture then more able gifted parents can have a benficial effect on their offspring ( assuming they're dealt an even card) . responsibility and common sense. are factors of both nature and inheritance. you can still be unlucky too

@@buildmotosykletist1987 I like it.

@Life Is Good It's just not true. We are not born "equal".

Equality is possible if you lower the bar enough; the lowest common denominator is serfdom.

It's embedded in the cultural zeitgeist but not, nor will it ever be in the world of business and finance, even in the West. At some point seriousness kicks in.

Matthew 25 gives the best example of equality (the parable of the talents)

What analysis? I heard several assertions but never any analysis.

@@yobrant I can’t help you.

@@reginaford8575😊😅😮😢🎉😂❤

Since it has never existed anywhere, but is achieved in other countries much better, then obviously the sensible thing to do is copy the policies of the countries which do it better. But thats really not done. If you admit that it exists AT ALL, then I don't see why its an unachievable myth. There is very little 'inevitibility' in societies UNLESS you predetermine the conditions. Set up a horrible society, then yes, you can say utopia is a myth. Meanwhile, not sure how much you travel but lots of places have much more egalitarian outcomes with different policies. But if you refuse to change the policies, you can't expect different outcomes. Granted, MOST of these decisions are not even within the grasp of voters because no parties offer them. Which means we have a society that largely says such things must be impossible because we don't even have the means of trying the polices that COULD lead to better outcomes.

@@mikearchibald744 You cannot simply copy a policy and expect it to have the same impact elsewhere. We see this with the American model of the free market which does not fit well with Japanese corporation culture, Russian corruption, Mediterranean family structures and so on. But that's not really the point here. The point is that whilst no doubt you can reduce inequalities you will never remove them. One reason is your measurement system. Operational practices, data capture approaches, sampling methodologies will always mean you measure some difference in outcomes. More importantly, heritable traits, cultural transmission, individual attitudes and abilities will inevitably give rise to differences in outcomes. For example, a child of a quantum physicist will have an advantage over the child of a bin man (no disrespect to the latter). Unless (i) you ban the parent helping the child or (ii) educational support is so expert and extensive that additional support from the parent will not add value. The latter is not feasible & the former is horrendously totalitarian. I think you simply mean that there are societal models which may lead to lower levels of inequality, and I would not disagree with this.

@@MoranM Well, you CAN copy them, the issue is that the devil is in the details. I'm not sure of the details of what you mean by the free market and then list OTHER countries because certainly the US has as much as, if not more corruption than those places, the difference in some cases is simply that the system is further along and so what THEY call corruption WE simply call 'business as usual'. America is certainly run by the same plutocratic families and industries as in other countries, there is no point talking about a russian oligarch and then refusing to call Jeff Bezos , Zuckerburg or the Koch Brothers oligarchs, because thats exaxctly what they are. Moreover, thats exactly what almost every capitalist claims, which is that you CAN bring in free markets under all conditions, in fact you NEED to bring them in, otherwise thats admitting that communism is a better scenario. I had a much longer comment to another person going into your example about equality of opportunity, one person having a quantum physicist for a father isn't 'necessarily' an advantage, in fact likely isn't one at all if they are working. The bin guy will have more free time. Thats certainly not the issue with 'equality', and is why equality of OUTCOME is more important. Its why there was affirmative action programs, because there was such a tipped scale that in order to get equal of OUTCOME you had to make the system itself unequal. That was ruled not discriminatory because of the latent or overt discrmination already pre existing. But there isn't much point in talking about the equality which means a teacher spends more time with a student having trouble than with the student who already knows it. In the past its been well known that gifted students got MORE teacher attention, which is discrimination. So a policy of letting the gifted kid get on with it themselves and helping the other, is a form of discrimination, its just a different form than from before, and a better one since it leads to equality of outcome, which is all students haveing a decent education.

Change out 'equality of opportunity' for 'freedom from conscious impediments' within a framework that insists upon adherence to the non-aggression principle.

Having equal opportunity is known as equity, aspiring for equal outcome is known as equality. Equity is a good aspiration for a healthy, progressive society, equality is not.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Mh9I56J3f4Q.html Howdy?

With this talk of diversity and inclusion which are exactly the opposite how can anyone achieve equality. But the terms inclusion means to exclude the majority of people so how is that inclusive and equal.

> How exactly would one assure “fairness “ In ALL things Leftists will keep trying until everyone is dead.

History tells us that modern science, which is the well-spring of modern technology, arose out of competition with Islam. That competition was intensified by a competition between the nations during the age of exploration which brought the western hemisphere within the Western orbit, and a successful competition in the Indo-Pacific region. Portugal, Spain, France, England, the Dutch Netherlands all achieved world wide empires that lasted until the Catastrophe of the 20th century. Islam contributed nothing to this.

no. wrong. where do you get these ideas??

@@bicycleutopia "no. wrong. where do you get these ideas??" Really? What kind of argument is that? Are you just negating what people are writing?

Abstracting (selective focusing) from the evidence of the senses is mans basic method of survival. Man is not a brute animal, dependent only on the concrete knowledge of here and now. And common sense is good only for small things. It cant solve complex problems. Abstraction is a learned skill, made much easier and quicker with a teacher. Education is not job training or social adjustment. Comprachicos-Ayn Rand Teaching Johnny To Think-Leonard Peikoff

@@JRobbySh Modern science is the product of Aristotle's discovery of scientific method applied by post-Renaissance thinkers as systematic induction ,measurement, and experiment by Francis Bacon, Newton, etc. Leap of Logic-David Harriman

Why can't I be free yet still view other people as my equal (in the sense that we are all human beings worthy of respect)?

So true’. Look around

What country?

@@deniseforsythe8965 Ghana 🇬🇭 under J. J. Rawlings

What would have been the benefit of the opportunity of a state-subsidized music education to Bill Gates? He wanted computers. Always ask, opportunity to whom and for what?

It’s a very good read. Required reading for those demanding reparations.

How do you define “humane?”

Your point being?

Talking about 'genetics' sounds so pompous. I enjoy Ferguson's writing, but his understanding of science is shaky. Putting too much faith in certain branches of science such as genomics is simply superstitious and ideological.

@@deniseforsythe8965 How about: possessing moral and intellectual advancement enough to be motivated by concern with the alleviation of the suffering of others.

@@charlesdevilliers5387 Point being, for instance, an economic policy that seeks to export to the lowest wage country possible all of the jobs that American's of modest intellectual ability my be able to support themselves and their families, might not be a humane economic policy for anyone involved in the transaction - including the low wage workers over seas.

Alex Greer -is socialism is a religion -a religion of envy preached by the gospel of despair and worshipped by the less successful in any society .Do you want a heart surgeon selected on the basis of equality or one selected on the basis of medical competence !!! Equality if opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome -intelligence is inherited -and not equally inherited.

And yet a lack of regulation has led to polluted rivers, land, sky … of misuse and abuse. A middle way is needed.

So in other words: penalize those who are born with above average traits?? Discrimination on the basis of genes, in an attempt to make everyone just average? Oh that sounds like a wonderful idea

@@senglomein5766 hello. So if by “penalize” you mean creating tax laws that prohibit some people from using their disproportionate amount of income to live like kings due to - as Dr. Ferguson stated - unearned and therefore unmerited abilities and advantages - while the rest of the people less fortunate have to struggle to figure out how to feed their families….then…yes…”penalizing” them seems like it could make society better…granted it would be at the expense of limiting rich people to only owning 3 homes big enough for 5 families instead of 10 and limiting them to only one $100k car instead of 5. I’m not sure how they will make it but hopefully they will be able to take advantage of some new social programs to make ends meet.

Where's the intensive to better oneself if you know you'll be given handouts no matter what you do? Why have a job with responsibilities & stress when you know others will demand bigger handouts ?

The word ‘diversity’ should also be banned

I wish all countries shared the same values. I don’t know why these shouldn’t be free along with decent affordable tenured housing for all and childcare where desired. These are the basics. Conflating the provision of these with economic mismanagement is an issue these ideologues are happy to partake in.

@@annon3173 The problem is that if the State provides 'free' education and 'free' healthcare and 'free' housing and 'free' childcare, then at any point the State can say 'no' to any one it takes a dislike to, for any reason or no reason. You are setting up an inequality between the provider (the State) and the providee (you and me). We saw this in Britain in the '60's and '70's where taxation reached 98% for some people. Or in Sweden where it reached 120%.

China is a prime example of a society that has succeeded despite not being run on a capitalist system. This really irks the US and so they target China every opportunity they can like any narcissist.

Scandinavian countries are extremely free market capitalist, more so then the u.s. they have a higher tax that allows for citizens to have better health care but the government is extremely hands off when it comes to the business side of things.

Corrupt relative to Marxist mysticism.

Free to be rejected or fail in the attempt - yes, it's a fairly meaningless concept. Window dressing, basically. Or delaying the inevitable outcome.

As I always understood it, equality of opportunity meant across groups of people with comparable aptitude and ability. Not a soul on earth wants the un-coordinated, ungainly and clumsy to have their fair shot at getting to the top of the ballet world. I appreciate your doggedness in pursuit of clear thinking but in my view you're much too literal-minded here.

You must have been living in a cave for years.

Primitive savages depend on luck and stay primitive. Capitalism rewards your main enemy: mans independent mind.

@@TeaParty1776 hehe