Use code THISISFINE for 10% off a GN toolkit (now in stock & shipping, as well as previous back-orders!), mouse mat, or other items: store.gamersnexus.net/ NZXT RESPONDS: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZnDWxiFvUtE.html Watch part 1 here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9XIKOSrQdQ0.html This is the second appearance for Patrick Stone. He has helped occasionally behind the scenes for about 8-9 years now, but just joined our team officially. We're really excited to have him. He is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher (and former network engineer), and it really shows in this content. Hope you all liked having some additional technical detail provided by him!
If I saw those plastic screws I would almost be guaranteed to think that the manufacturer cheaped out, or that a previous owner did not have the right screws, and I would replace them with proper ones made out of metal. That "fix" is no such thing.
If I didn't know about it I'd 100% swap it with a metal screw. However I do know about it, so it just makes me mistrust all NZXT products if they're not going to recall shockingly poor design. If my government knew about this they'd force a recall. There could be many legal repurcussions if they don't disclose and rectify.
It'd be fine, if they didn't also bring the clowning into their marketing, customer service and business ethics. But I guess all hope is lost for companies like NZXT
I've known a few social media managers, it's just as likely a case of "customer support won't respond to our emails either so all I have for you is memes"
Being a meme is fine if you do it like Wendy’s. But there’s a balance to be had between memeing for the sake of amusement and internet marketing and being professional when there’s an issue faced by customers and the like. NZXT failed in this aspect.
An additional factor around the screw eroding the PCB material. That slot is expected to contain a heavy graphics card. The case is a small and relatively portable case. It's reasonable to expect that people may transport it to a friend's house, or similar. Vibration during transport may well cause progressive erosion of the hole, as it restrains movement of the graphics card.
Yes, shock testing was not done on that hastily chosen fix either. The screws will be loaded in shear by the graphics card weight. Nylon screws (especially ones stretched by over tightening) are not durable. Shock and vibe over time will lead to failure of the nylon screws and ultimately replacement by metal screws.
I'd say that depending on the actual weight of the graphics card such erosion/breakup could happen in virtually no time. It would only take the car bumping once on the road on whatever blockage that is there and you've got a riser card not only rendered useless, but instead turned into a blaze source.
I lost my mother and little brothers in a house fire when was a wee fella. The total disregard to a serious potential fire hazard from a large corporation just to save a few dollars really just makes me angry.. and to think they throw around the number "10" reported cases as little... that's 10 lives, 10 household, 10 families!! Won't be looking to buy nzxt products anytime in the near....wait, never! Keep up the great work lads.
10 fires for a unit that has barely hit the market - and at $350 is a low volume unit to begin with - is actually already alarming enough. Especially coming not from some kind of inherent difficulty, but from dumb engineering neglect and lack of validation, entirely avoidable.
I'm so sorry to hear that, Matt. You are absolutely right that "10" (or even 1) is not a small number when it comes to the potential of fire. Sure, the first few might have lost video cards, but if the conditions are there, losses could be homes, sentimental value, or in extremely unfortunate scenarios, lives. Thank you for sharing and for adding your voice. You have an important voice here as it is one that knows the severity. I appreciate you taking the time to write this comment.
Might have to show this to the retailer's here selling this case. Looks to me like that the case meets he definition of "electrically unsafe" www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763615.html
All companies make choices like this. We could make cars very safe in accidents by making them into basically tanks, but no one wants to pay the cost of making them into tanks. Not the companies, not the end-user.
The corpo PR did not speculate how blunt and bold gamernexus would be. Should've known when he said their "i" version of casings are useless piece of shits.
I have been designing PC Boards for 20+ years and this problem should have never occurred. Internal traces and copper planes must have a minimum clearance of 1mm from the board outline (includes mounting holes). This PCB design would never have passed a standard design rule check. This is a poor design with insufficient rules. NZXT should fix this issue immediately with a recall of the product.
You are 100% right. It also may have happened that the hole was too small for the screw that they put originally so even if there was some clearance the PCB was chewed by the threads. All PCBs I've designed have no traces nor planes whatsoever (except GND) not only certain distance from the edges but also not under whole head of the screw.
Yeah, it’s very puzzling. I’ve seen custom PCB manufacturer (who often deal with noobs) reject client’s design for this kind of simple mistakes, very easy to check.
I don't even know why the 12 V is even there to begin with. The PCB is little more than an interconnector between the Cables and the Socket. None of the Traces need to be longer than a few mm, maybe with the exepion of Ground, which you might want to put on a different Layer for shielding. But why bother, when the Socket isn't shielded, so why is a thace there and +12V of all things. Seems like a Rookie mistake which got approved somehow.
I'm wondering if this isn't so much an issue with the design, but potentially the manufacturing? Sure there are problems with the overall design, but could the tolerances be off in their manufacturing process? And, hypothetically assuming that is the case, are there typically any kind of QC or QA testing for something like this on a finished product or is it not usually necessary?
@@CreativityNull i’d say it’s solely a design error. PCB manufactures have very tight tolerances, otherwise you’d have wrong traces/shorts elsewhere. The decision to have the 12v plane going so close to the screw hole is a (not good) decision when you lay out the PCB in cad software, so whoever designed this did not take it into consideration
Can we just take a moment to appreciate how Steve and the GN team actually care about consumers and put it all on the line for them, great work guys shame on nzxt
Right? So glad I found GN will forever come here for whatever news, reviews, testing etc that they relase. full transparency on a professional level does nothing but promote sales (usually) shame on all these companies sucks that it always comes down to "us" having to hold the 'big dawg' accountable.
Yep. I ordered from GN and was honestly never going to otherwise. If you have disposable income you sort of have a duty to support good people or at least good deeds. Meanwhile NZXT has lost me as a customer forever. That's the only solution to such recklessness and they should go out of business. This is a mistake that never should have happened in the first place let alone how they're handling it. It's akin to giving people rubber gloves because a product shocks them. I've probably purchased 90 NZXT cases over the years for personal and customer builds. No longer. I don't care what customers may want now. NZXT is finished.
Few channels would be willing to burn bridges like GN, they would kowtow to the corporations. Speaks volumes about GN's character that they are valuing safety more than dollars.
1: GPUs are heavy, you might not even need to unscrew the riser for the hole to degrade to the point where the 12V plane is exposed. 2: The 12V plane might make electrical contact with something even with the nylon screws if the hole is degraded enough. 3: The hole should be plated and grounded. 4: There should not be a 12V plane ANYWHERE NEAR A FUCKING SCREW HOLE.
With manufacturing variance as well, not all holes will align perfectly either on the riser or on the support it attaches too. Misalignment increases the likelihood of threads cutting into the board due to the lateral force. It's just not a safety first design.
Yeah, this is my concern. It may be uncommon, but someone moving one of cases around these around with a GPU causing the riser to wiggle around might change a unit from being very close to a short to shorting. Imagine a GPU in a riser travelling in a car from one place to another slowly nibbling away at the sub-millimeter distance between the screw and the 12V plane. It's essentially a shake-n-bake computer case.
I live how Steve is slowly building himself a consumer protection lab in his studio. Seeing 3 people huddled around the PCH with multimeters and high magnification camera setups and surgical lighting is wonderful.
NZXT ignores even their customers... My RGB fans stopped functioning and they isolated the issue as hardware failure and then they started ignoring. Now they stopped responding to my email. This is pathetic customer service!!
next email from NZXT "Due to the current situation, we have decided to not send you any "FE" NZXT cases in the future. We would be happy to revise it, should your editorial direction change. NZXT"
I just went through a house fire in December (unrelated cause) and even when you dont lose every single item you own its still a nightmare. Suddenly I am displaced, I lost thousands in belongings, and where I set up my life is suddenly a black husk. Its not something id wish upon anyone. You are doing something important here for sure GN.
Devastating to hear these stories because we nearly had a bad one a few years ago. I know the fear but not the loss. I hope things will improve soon, and I appreciate your message.
House fires are *never* a laughing matter. I’ve lost a good friend of mine in a house fire caused by a faulty PSU in a desktop (this is why you don’t skimp on PSUs, guys). Very disappointing to see NZXT treat this without the urgency and seriousness expected given what’s at risk
6 years ago our house burnt down, and the devastation it brings to your life is immeasurable. Family pets died and we lost everything. The whole family had to live in a 1 bedroom flat for a few months waiting for insurance and to rebuild the house. As the op said you're doing important good work
I'm normally just a lurker, and no one will probably see this, but this just made me straight up sick to my stomach. This is gross negligence at the highest level. As many others have pointed out, 10 cases are 10 too many. The sheer fucking incompetence and carelessness displayed here should be all the evidence anyone ever needs. They say they can't see what the problem is, yet they ship nylon screws. I am never buying an NZXT product till the day I die
It really is baffling that registered companies such as them are legally able to sell fire hazard products? What if I child is building his first computer and leaves it on over night? The house could burn down and the child could be fatality hurt, this needs legal attention, and the products should be banned.
@@reposter6434 not only a child. If i build a new computer and i put it on and leave it running my house can burn down, could also kill anyone including kids in the house, or the house of the neighbours. And its not that they didnt know. And its not something i would actually think about. I leave my pc running a lot even when im not around to dowload a game for example. Wich would be very likely on a new build pc. You just build it, it posts and so you start it up and let the thing install al the things you want on it and you can do something else in the meantime. Now appearantly you cant because it might catch fire...
@@gabbermaikel this is true, it's reasons such as this that console players mainly stick to there LIMITED! console, and tbh I can see why, if companies can't be trusted to make safe working componenets why should they? Not saying all the brands are bad, it's meerley just this one, however new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget, and this is the type of thing new builders will choose, it's not safe and shouldn't be on the market, plain and simple.
@@reposter6434 What do you mean with "new builds are typically built alot cheaper under a budget" If you mean that new builders tend to go with a more low budget spec for their build then i could possibly agree yes. But if you got for a budget spec build you wil NEVER EVER touch a nzxt H1 as they are €350. I think that is actually in the top of the range price wise. And yes i know, it includes the aio cpu cooler and the power supply. But there are a lot of cases that would come in a lot cheaper then this even if you bought a expensive psu and a 240mm aio cooler(and this only has a small aio)
I'm genuinely surprised by the response by NZXT. I'd imagine that their legal department would be terrified over the potential liability in this situation, but apparently not.
@@chrisfortune1813 Considering that you have to set up and configure a case anyway, this wouldn't fly at all in front of a judge. That's like saying Lego kits could be defended with that.
@@afelias I was not trying to say they were right but pointing out a previously used and accepted defense of this type of this from other industries, notably the auto industry. An extreme example would be drinking bleach, the producer can't be held responsible for you if you do that even though it is physically possible to drink a fluid. This is why this kind of work by GN is so important, companies will take a fix that covers them rather than fix the problem if they think they can get away with it.
@@fridaycaliforniaa236 UL is a safety testing lab. In the US we don't require UL like Europe Requires CE. The situation is you can be more easily sued if you release a harmful product to the public. UL stands for Underwriter Laboratories, who comes up with safety standards like IEEE and NFPA, National Fire Protection Agency, ANSI and ISO safety (and CE now) to determine safety tests and standards. A manufacturer gets certified to meet the standard if they choose, at their expense. A fundamental rule is a single point failure can NOT produce risk to the end user, most importantly, No FIRE. If your product is not UL, then the end user can not get insurance on their home/business as you are putting unsafe stuff in the building, so most manufacturer s get UL.
There are 2 fundamental flaws in the PCB. 1) The screw hole is not even a proper size for the screw being used. 2) There is no copper "keep out" around the screw hole. One of the first thing I was taught about creating PCB layouts was to place "keep outs" around holes and connectors where you do not want accidental contact. This is beyond lazy and is absolutely dangerous as has been demonstrated.
Yes, the part librarians should have added courtyard to the screw hole, but even with that, DRC on the drill lyr should have automatically pulled back the filled zones. My guess is they designed it with a smaller hole and then drilled a larger one in production.
@@endless2239 A plated through hole would not have had this issue, as it's got GND layer near power planes and that's like the first DRC rule you set (distance from filled zones to other nets). The issue here is that the through hole is unplated and it drills through a copper pour (filled zone) on another layer, which would not be caught by the edge cuts DRC, nor the filled zones / traces DRC (which would have caught the plated through hole). The issue is that they didn't pull back the filled zone based on the drill layer, which is pretty odd, IMO. I suspect they designed a smaller hole by mistake, everything passed DRC, but then they realized it was too small and upped the drill size in production or after the PCB was made as a sepearate step.
I think NZXT is desperatly trying to get the January-Slot for the 2021 disappointment shirt. It's not easy with everything that happend so far, but maybe they escalate it even further in February to grab that slot. I guess we have to see and wait for what they are up to.
As being product liability investigator I completely understand and feel your passion! Wow ...Funny you mentioned the Ford Pinto defect. Our office worked this case back in the day and it was found to be a SHEET METAL SCREW, when rear ended, punctured the single walled fuel tank. Fuel tanks are now double walled. Our company worked directly for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Peterbuilt and several more back in the day. NZXT is NOT the only company to be mentioned here!! The manufacture of the cable needs to be at the forefront! JayZ is correct, companies unfortunately do not address the issue til the issue becomes financially larger then the fix! “AT THE PRICE OF A LIFE” on most cases. And yes ... how sad is that?!?! The proper statement for NZXT would have been “TEMPORARY FIX”.. what they should be doing is reaching out to customers and insisting they immediately stop using the product and return for repair OR refund no matter the cost! Attorneys list everyone associated with the company in lawsuits!! Even if they were no where connected to the defect. And now that you are addressing this, even in a positive way and we’re affiliated with NZXT, you would most likely be listed as well. How crazy does this sound? Very! It’s deep pockets.... anyone who has $$. You would most likely be dropped off the suit. Seen some crazy law suits. The plaintiff attorneys are like locus! NOT ONE LIFE SHOULD BE LOST PRIOR TO A MANUFACTURER TO TAKE ACTION ON A KNOWN DEFECT!!!!! It’s all about the $$. Companies knowing their product has a defect that can cause injury or death and not do anything bout it til the law suits come, is in my eyes, MANSLAUGHTER / MURDER. Good job Steve! You’ve made difference!
Reminds me of the waterslide "Verrückt" that decapitated a 10-year-old boy. It wasn't even designed by engineers; it was designed by the park owner. During testing, the rafts would go airborne, but they opened the ride anyways. They knew it was bad, but they didn't want to fix it out of greed.
it is, and it gives me immense respect for steve and the whole GN team. sub'd originally for the product reviews, stayed for the industry accountability pieces
It's why I like channels like Thunderf00t, also because raging nerds are great fun 😎 Or anyone else knowledgeable just shutting bullshitters down, especially when it also saves me money 🤘😁
@@ebolawarrior451 I think there's many politicians who start with the noble goals, but often they have to play the game to get into position to affect change. By the time the get to position they've become compromised. Moral leaders resign, so the selection bias of lifelong politicians are either those without major backbone or those who love the corruption.
What's happening here is a high impedance fault. The 12 volt rail near the screw is connecting to ground when the short is occurring. They are relying on the case being grounded and the screw being bonded to the case. The problem occurs because their is a weak connection to ground through the pcb to the screw and to the case. This creates a short to ground, but the resistance is too high to create enough current to trigger any over current protection. The screw hole should be shielded all the way through creating a strong connection to ground if there is a short. The 12 volt rail shouldn't be anywhere near that screw hole. This is a bad design. High impedance faults are dangerous because fires and electric shock will occur even when safety measures, such as fuses and circuit breakers are used. This being only 12 volts means you won't get a severe shock, but if you had this type of design flaw in a higher voltage device, such as a lamp or a toaster or a washing machine a person would be electrocuted to death if a short occurred. Even a circuit breaker or fuse would not save you. This pcie riser needs to be recalled right away.
Hi Roger. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise and knowledge. We can do decent troubleshooting, but don't have the vocabulary or EE foundation you seem to have. I really appreciate the extra knowledge. It may prove useful if we revisit this topic again.
Next level bad design for sure, bargain bins at shenzhen are probably better than this. Larger clearance around the mounting holes (which is usually default in most cad sw) and increasing the drill dimensions of them would probably solve the issue completely, not even bothering with plated holes if they wanted to be cheap about it.
@@xericicity I think they went for unplated holes because they were aware of how close that 12v trace was to the screw point, if you're manufacturing other parts with plated holes then switching to unplated is more costly than just reusing the same plate process, this whole mess was deliberate.
@@FilmFlam-8008 The key here is that it's a specific kind of short. If it were a low impedance short (like dropping a screwdriver on the back of a GPU and bridging the power pins on the 8-pin PCI power connector), it would have lower resistance (impedance) and higher current, and would trip the OCP of the PSU. Like that wire you see Patrick using with the power supply. As soon as he turns it on, it current limits to 4A. The computer PSU would shut down. The issue here is that the resistance of the short is too high to trip OCP, therefore the PSU can deliver it's specified current and OCP is not tripped, causing a fire.
As an electrician, I find electronics so fascinating. This is where your knowledge of electrical theory and troubleshooting shines. I really appreciate Everyone in this video shedding light to the dangers of electricity, and how easily a happy moment could’ve turned out otherwise. Watching you guys work it out inspired me to build my first pc. Now I’m hooked.
Ive designed my own PCBs both for etching myself and also for fabrication by services like JLC now you can get them professionally made for cheap prices. Adequate clearance for traces around holes and away from edges is a basic part of design. Having any trace, let alone one capable of delivering significant current, go anywhere near a screw hole is a ridiculous error to see in a commercial product. Also the hole is undersized. I would never spec a hole to be effectively tapped into by a screw. The hole should be ~0.5mm wider than the screw so the PCB is clamped down on rather than screwed into. This is super basic design stuff that even I, as a hobbyist, would never get wrong in my own projects. Or if I did, I'd bin the PCB and start again.
Adding to this, most applications can run a basic clearance check, even open source apps like Kicad can detect a fault like this. This feels like someone moved a pcb through-hold or widened it without running any automated checks. This sort of thing is common in CAD and software, because people are rushed and QA isn't heavily enforced. Someone clearly didn't understand the weight of their design decisions, nor the liability if they failed in their designs.
Most EDA systems will automatically add keepouts around screw holes, you dont even have to do it manually. And I agree, tapping a PCB with a screw is just plain retarded. There is literally no reason to do this.
Yep, came here to leave the same comment. This is just plain horrible design. Every single PCB design tool I've ever used (whether free or professional) by default runs DRC and will not allow you to have traces near a screw hole. There's always a designated keepout zone, and you have to make a conscious effort to work around it. Even having a screw thread into the hole shouldn't result in any copper being exposed. This looks like absolutely trash design + someone spec'd the wrong screw.
My suspicion would be that this PCB was made without any screwholes originally, and thus there was never any hole to be checked for in DRC, and NZXT got a bunch of these holeless PCBs in inventory for whatever reason... and then someone got the "bright" idea that they could just drill holes in these holeless PCBs.
Hell, I just finished the video and you showed it right there. Copper strands were visibly protruding from the pcb. If one of those strands is pushed into the exposed threads as you screw it down, then it will burn down at first start up. If the power supply malfunctions, then it becomes an area of heat buildup if the circuit doesn't terminate properly. This is REALLY bad. And just because reported cases are not common now, doesn't mean that they won't be increasing in frequency and severity over time
To me this looks like a 100% NZXT botch-up, not the riser card supplier's fault. Seeing that there are multiple fixation holes in the card, I would argue that this is an off-the-shelf, general OEM product whose holes were not designed for screw assembly (probably rather for plastic pins). Also, the "PCB dust" is a clear sign that the holes are too small for the screws -they should only dig into the metal case, but never into the PCB. Screws work by pressing the PCB against the case with the force being created through the thread digging into the latter one, but never by forcing a counterthread through both components, because here one could never ensure a snug and flush fit and control the tightening force, which is a key parameter to warrant a correct fit. There's a good reason almost everyone (especially car manufacturers, but also your trusted mainboard or SSD brand) give you a torque value for tightening the screws. So, total NZXT failure - designers integrating an unsuitable component, issue remaining undetected by design reviews and QA, PR disaster.
@OGgieBOOgy302 without people like this you'd be spending your hard earned money on absolute trash. So at least acknowledge his persistent efforts if "hero" tilts you that much.
@@christopherkidwell9817 Fortunately no. This is someone failing at safety testing of creepage during design. I wonder if they are UL rated under EN 61010 or EN 60950 or EN 62368, probably not.
the digging into the pcb probably also strips the coating on the metal screws, it might be a rare issue but over time all the factors just stack up to make it more and more dangerous. FR4 pcb material has glas fiber in it which is very abrasive (same reason they use tungsten carbide drills for it during manufacture)
I will never, ever buy an NZXT case. Thank you for pointing out this dangerously defective product and the unbelievably faithless response by the manufacturer.
@@venom9370 "Ehhh" is if they took a week to respond. This is all completely dangerous, childish bullshit from a company that would still love to be paid for it.
@@bacintom That was a good thing in the 90's along with being "da bomb". Now both of those gets you put on the terrorist watchlist. Welcome to the Brave New World of Covid 1984!
I was considering building a system on this, now fuck no, especially after seeing how they're reacting to this. I will not be supporting a company like this.
@@joaovarela4854 With those components, the Coolermaster NR200P is a very solid choice (around 18L). If you want to go smaller, the Ncase M1 is also excellent (around 12L) but it's a much more pricey "boutique case". Those two should be able to keep things cool and relatively quiet, with other sff cases you will most likely have to sacrifice cooling and / or noise performance.
Just an observation here: The original metal screws appears to be of the "self-threading" type. (Identified by the slight triangular shape of the screw instead of cylindrical) That would be VERY bad. Self-Threading screws are DESIGNED to eat away material in order to create threads for said screws. When my dad was teaching me to assemble PCs he specifically told me to: "Never place those screws directly in contact with any PCBs. EVER." Obviously he said this for the very reason demonstrated in these videos.
Yeah... I really don't understand why they did that. When you screw mother board for example to the case, hole in mb is just an hole for screw to go trough, actual screw is tightened into the case. I mean that is the standard way to do it, why the heck would they make the hole smaller?? It just seems like such and basic thing and very clear design flaw. The very least they could do is to call back current design and replace the risers, and ofc extend that offer to people who bought the case. Even if you replace the metal screw, the pcb is already damaged if at some point metal screw was used for the riser. It just the metal debris could cause the short. It's such an stupid mistake. They would have noticed the issue with prototypes or first assembly.
It is also standard practice to keep copper fill and any pcb traces at least a few millimeters away from the screw head size. So it's also highly negligent on the PCB designers part.
@@oliverer3 Fully agreed. That's what I do on my PCBs to prevent exactly this situation. A 'route-keepout', or 'copper pullback' are the usual EDA terms.
Somewhere at NZXT, there's an accountant weighing the cost of a lawsuit against the cost of replacing the riser cables for 40-60% of the H1 cases sold ('cuz roughly half of H1 owners won't know about the issue or won't bother requesting a replacement).
This isn’t just an “oops” mistake, this is complete negligence by an Electrical Engineer, and further negligence by the company to immediately fix the situation the correct way. This product needs to be reported to the relevant US government agencies so it can’t be sold.
I mean when these companies try to squeeze every cent just to make a product, this is what you get, as the saying says “what is cheap could end up being more expensive “
Let's be real here. The electrical engineer probably didn't design this to be possible. Somewhere up the command chain someone decided to save money by using a cheap riser instead of a sturdy one.
This is going to be used as an example in a university PCB design class. It's just too perfect. "This is what can happen when you override your clearance rules"
They would need to properly design the PCB. Clearance hole that is larger than the used screw and use proper keepout zones to have no traces right next to the hole. Even the basic throughhole in EAGLE won't let you get close to it even with 0mil clearance rules. And DRC would scream at you anyway. So no idea how they even managed to spin up that board.
I'm amazed at the amount of scientific inquiry you guys have made into this issue. Makes me appreciate the lengths you guys go through to bring awareness and impart some knowledge to the PC Building community. Kudos to your efforts! It was highly interesting the way you built this experiment and demonstrated the 12V to Ground short with an external "sacrificial wire". Loved it!
I have one of these and its incredible how no one contacted me about this issue, hopefully, I found this youtube video in time to do something about it.
Let me be clear, I'm not trying to simplify people down to analogous people, everyone has their own personality and I like most of them. That being said, Mr. Stones expertise, presenting style and calm confidence remind me of LTT's Anthony Young, which is a compliment just to be clear. Fantastic talented guys.
5 days ago, purchased th H1. I really love the formfactor, friend showed me ur first vid of this series, i was concerned, got my multimeter 2 check, sure enough, same issues with the riser and mangled nylon screws. Now saw this vid, packing the H1 back up to return it as we speak.
There's a few things that are a bad idea in life, like pursuing Lu Bu in dynasty warriors, or cooking bacon with your shirt off. But one thing you *NEVER* do, is tell Steve that he's wrong about a PC case.
Another way to describe this for people who don't quite understand voltage: electricity wants 2 touching points of metal to be at the same voltage. If 12V touches ground (0V), then a massive amount of electric current flows in an attempt to equalize that voltage. The result of that massive current flow is a huge amount of heat and a fire.
Yep, Ohms law is V = IR If two things are in direct contact (12V plane and ground), R approaches 0. That means I (current) approaches infinity. But typically whatever is bridging the link (in this case the thin wire) burns up before that happens and breaks the connection. Another thing to note is that even if the mobo isn't in the tray for some reason, you still have 12V shorted to your case through the motherboard tray and case itself. So if you touch even the outside of the case and something electrically connected to ground (say, opening a window latch or something), you could electrocute yourself if you're using a cheater plug. SUPER DANGEROUS and definitely worthy of a recall. Even if you're not using a cheater plug you'd be creating a short from 12V to the Ground part of the power plug via your case which could also start a fire.
Here's my analogy: When large hedge funds try to artificially short a stock (increase voltage potential), it creates an opening (the screw) for normal people to invest in said stock in an attempt to equalize the wealth disparity (equalize voltage potential) in the modern world (the circuit) until the rich people complain because wealth is flowing (current) to the poor people (ground point) too quickly and gets the brokerage companies (overcurrent protection) involved and stop the transactions (open the circuit).
Nope, just never purchase NZXT crap again and spread the word. If they want our houses to potentially burn down, let's return the sentiment in kind and burn the company down into bankruptcy. It is simply the karma of the golden rule of life. Don't do unto others what you wouldn't do upon yourself.
@@schelba NZXT fixed what in Brazil? They probably "fixed" it with nylon screws that they crossthread violently. They FOR SURE haven't remanufactured the defective boards, you can't do this in such a short time, it would take at least 3 months. You seem to be misunderstanding the whole issue. What was expected from them now in January, now that issue was become known, is not to hotpatch the issue and throw the case with a still defective board back on the market, but to take it off the market until they can replace the faulty part completely, and at least promise everyone a replacement riser, not a pair of flimsy plastic screws that can barely hold it in place.
Great video. Not only did I learn something, but I was able to fully understand how they cut corners here. Kudos to Patrick being on camera. I know it was a more serious topic, but you guys play off of each other well. Hope to see more of you guys working on stuff like this together on camera!
Patrick and Patrick are excellent sources of knowledge. Definitely planning more appearances. They do excellently to balance the gaps in my own abilities and should improve our overall content by taking over certain parts of analysis. Thanks for your comment - it'll be encouraging for both Patricks!
@@GamersNexus In anything you're passionate about, it always pays to surround yourself with people who are better than you at some things! Glad to pass along some good vibes to you guys.
@@GamersNexus Specifically, it would be nice to get a product that will once and for all solve the issue of cats sitting on top of PC cases and blocking the top exhaust.
As an former sheetmetal draughtsman, this scares the living daylight out of me (the disrespect of tolerance and hole sizes). It makes me wonder what other stuff is bad in their equipment as well... NZXT will be on my naughty list right next to Thermaltake...
Same, though as a computer engineer. Honestly when they were discussing PCB design, and were talking about any software throwing rules violations up the ass for violating a minimum distance to GND/power rail, I realized that they must have done something totally beyond the pale here. It's like this riser was designed as a fever dream somehow.
Shockingly, even my cheap eBay special PCIE risers are better in this particular regard. A) The plane is cut much before the through-hole _|or|_ B) It's a basic plated-through hole to prevent this very thing
This is an Apple level of design flaw. Reminds me of those Macbooks that have a connector designed with a 12V pin right next to a CPU data pin (in a way no other company does except Apple because reasons) that can kill the CPU if shorted by liquid spilling,
Cant trust a company who puts fans against a metal front panel as aesthetic upcharge. In all seriousness, great job as always. Shoutout to Mr. Stone, what a wonderful addition to the team and great presentation for all viewership to understand, regardless of knowledgebase
@@Rance53 I think Anthony Young of LTT exudes the same style and leans a bit more into the swagger category, but calm confidence is such a nice thing to see. Experts who can feel secure in their expertise.
@@thetalesofdaneandco Anthony is great. That dude knows sooooo much, he's an OG nerd. every video that has him in the thumbnail, gets a view and i'm never disappointed.
I appreciate the efforts you've gone through to ensure safety for consumers and repeatable results for NZXT. I agree with your assessment that cases often don't stay with one person for their entire life cycle, and rarely with one build. A quick look at facebook marketplace and ebay will show people moving cases on, even specifically the H1, and there is no acknowledgement of this issue in listings. Expecting consumers to retain pertinent knowledge indefinitely (especially when NZXT is downplaying it) could genuinely lead to damage of property and in extreme cases loss of life. It is possible that this is a design issue, or even a shortcut made intentionally, but regardless of whose fault it is, this level of danger is unacceptable. NZXT is culpable.
You're so right - Here, I would like to add that a single case of fire could result in an "extreme" case. Mass death. The Grenfeld tower disaster was caused by a faulty refrigerator. One spark is all it takes to kill everybody above in a high-rise building.
I’m a hardware engineer. This can be completely resolved with a simple PCB revision. Good spot that the revision on the PCB hasn’t changed. This is just laziness and fear of scrapping material.
I almost bought this case for my five year old daughter. How the hell am I supposed to EVER trust this company again when they knew that it could have caught fire and just refused to acknowledge it?
im gonna remove all my nzxt casefans and also the rgb controller, the fans rattle when mounted upside-down anyway, cheap ass liquid bearings... bet it has crappy pcb's too.
@Samurai Shampoo A kid doesnt need clothes too, just cut some holes in a garbage-bag... like srsly.. Every kid has got a smartphone, like that is any different.
@Samurai Shampoo why not? i had my first computer when i was 4(30+ years ago, yikes i'm getting old). its better to start kids off early because the vast majority of kids/teenagers/young adults have absolutely no typing skills or basic understand of how computers work beyond opening a browse because they live on their iphones and ipads.
To be fair, there might be a great disconnect between the PR and the engineering teams. We as consumers want to talk to someone who knows more than we do, someone who can fix our problem. Instead we can get someone who is hired for his fast typing skills and unwavering attitude, who is tasked to answer, or ignore, emails. Not a problem limited to NZXT. I would reserve judgement until a problem blows up enough that everyone at X brand got a word in, not just PR
"[Patrick Stone] is a former Computer Engineering & Network Engineering teacher..." Yeah, he most definitely sounds like one. I could listen to him explaining electrical engineering basics for days. Time for GN to start up a new series of educational videos, hm? HMMMMM?????
Could throw in collaborations with EEVblog, ElectroBOOM, bigclive, GreatScott, Mr Carlson's Lab, Fran Blanche, TronicsFix Just to mention a handful of great electronics channels
This is hardcore negligient. As someone who uses his home PC for work remotely I would be hella scared to have my computer at home be made of components by NZXT. Big Yikes
you'd think, but instead they'll throw millions in marketing to sweep this shit under the rug instead of the ceo giving up 1 day worth of pay to correctly fix the issue.
"If the motherboard is not attached to the motherboard tray, then you've broken the circuit." >NZXT execs eyes start glowing once they realize they can ship plastic stand-offs rather than fix the problem, again.
In theory a graphics card or other expansions PCI-E Plate will ALSO be ground. and that will connect to the Case in the same way the MB does to the case.... so a new PCB is the ONLY option that should be considered!
Wow, the final minutes where you can see the exposed 12v plane, and continuity can be hand-tested with the probe in the screw hole, is pretty extraordinary. I don’t know how something like this even happens; given the last 30+ years of CAD PCB tools have (as mentioned in the video) checks for exactly this type of mistake. Furthermore, any reputable PCB manufacturer should catch this type of problem before a single board is created. The concern I have is that this PCB might be a subcontracted part that’s not unique and thus floating around in other PCI-E vertical mounting kits and cases from other brands. Irrespective of that concern, a recall needs to be issued ASAP.
This is some incredible investigative journalism and for anyone to say that RU-vidrs can’t be as such are inherently stuck within the past. Amazing work to Steve and your team. Your journalism combined with your technical knowledge can and WILL save many people from property destruction and injury/death!
My concern is with the H1 cases that are still in the warehouses and shops, those cases probably didn't get an update and not everyone knows of this problem with the riser card. So you buy a new case and know nothing about a fire hazard until your house burns down.
1 hour after you posted this comment, someone on the NZXT subreddit posted that they apparently got a "fixed" case with the old metal screws still in it. so the concern is very valid.
Yeah this is a recall level issue. Even if it's only for that part, they need to do something. I read a few explanations of just how wrong the design is in the comments on the original video - it is a badly designed part that creates a serious fire hazard and it would have been relatively easy to fix the issues by doing a recall of this part. Instead they doubled down and ended up looking like negligent (and greedy) idiots.
Let me share the train taught of me as person who builds his own PC-s. "Wtf is this... a plastic screw... how the fu** is that suppose to hold. I will just install the riser with one of my extra metal screws. Ok nice. Job done. OMG my apartment is burning... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
If it was me, first I'll probably leave a plastic screw in place cause why need to change it? But then, I'm diy person and do clean my PC every 3 months (my house is the 'too much dust' ground zero!) so I can see my self destroy those plastic screws like no tomorrow and at some point if I forgot about why plastic screw really in there, I'll change it to metal screw for sure (have ton of those) yep, plastic screw is just a workaround. P.S. I'd a solution for myself (well known) forgetful, by stick note somewhere in the case to reminder about fire hazard, but... that also just a workaround too damnit
Yeah I'd open the case, see the plastic screws, puke and immediately replace them with metal screws because who the hell uses a plastic screw in a PC??
I really don't understand situations like this when it comes to companies... Youre going to end up paying a fuck ton more out in damaged, compensation and fines nevermind hug loss of sales across board and stock price plummeting than just solving the problem properly to begin with!
But that's rarely what actually happens these companies basically take a calculated risk once they discover a problem like this that the number of times that the event will happen is small enough that they're better off for the lifetime of the product just paying off individual lawsuits and then signing an NDA and basically betting against any large enough group of people becoming a class action lawsuit against them and they're usually pretty right in that assumption The simple truth is that when a really bad event happens you often need the money and the instant payout more than you can afford a longer class action battle since you probably don't have the resources
For muricans it's opportunity to buy cctv to show the fire and put it near curtains and "objects of priceless sentimental values of 1 million usd". Just need a half decent lawyer
In almost all cases. If not all. They can gauge how many they'll sell compared howant are faulty and now much they'll have to pay out and in most cases they still make a profit
I don't understand what happened to this company. They used to be reliable and serious, now they are just trolling their customers on Twitter and don't give a fuck about this serious case.
