@@surfdado Exactly. As someone who's suffered the real issue several times (board nosediving out of nowhere, with no pushback or any other advance warning because a request for current from the ESC surpassed the BMS's ability to provide it) tossing my on my head, I have first hand knowledge of the inadequacy of their response. And that wouldn't be so bad if I could replace my ESC or BMS or battery on my own and they weren't so arrogant about it. Which is sad, because I have five, going on six, Onewheels, and love them (despite hating FM and their policies). Hopefully my new ESC from Tony to replace my bricked VESC in my Floatwheel will get here soon and give me a better reason to freeze my ass off.
As always, great work, very thorough and spot on. You can definitely see FM trying to catch up with us. One thing you didn't mention is they also started putting premium bearings in their motors like us. Well, not as premium as the Superflux but yea😂
Thanks for covering the tradeoffs of voltage/motor specs, very insightful. I built my first VESC XR recently and have no issues climbing hills on group rides, especially with a 60v 3Ah DeWalt battery in parallel to get rid of any voltage sag.
What??? That’s pretty crazy actually. They either detect/limit free spin explicitly or the windings produce 30-35 percent lower kv. Swapping motors between GT and GT-S boards will be really interesting now!!!
Here’s a way to find out without swapping motors. Does freespin speed drop as the battery discharges? If it stays unchanged then it’s probably limited by the firmware
I won't lie, I chuckled a bit at 3:44. Talking about GTS, then casually coming to a complete stop, and torqueing back up to cruising speed on a steep incline in a way GTS likely still can't, at least to the same degree without the nose catching 😅😂
Considering they literally added more windings for torque and stronger magnets for torque, not to mention they advertise racing up hills. I think they can do that now.
@destruxandexploze2552 I was hopeful of the same, thinking the main goal for them was to finally get the full potential out of the Hypercore, using such high voltage that they could keep their current limits and still push the HC to its limit. But unfortunately, early reports are sounding like the torque from a stop and very low speed still isn't there, at least compared to VESC setups that can tractor crawl up steep hills from a stop. Once you're moving, it's solid AF, just lacks in that low speed burst of torque that VESC opens up
I'm 273 lbs 🙂 on my GT in the best case scenario on a full charge I get around 14 miles, and if I buy a GT-S looks like my range will be around 10 miles or so, do I really want to spend $3,500+ for 10-miles range board? that's a good question 😡, and the sucks part is you cannot add a range booster to GT/GT-S like I did to my VESC 😉👍
Technically, all motors have zero power at zero speed, because power = torque x speed. It would be more informative for them to show us the torque graph, because that's what you can feel as the board response. Even so, we can see from their curves that the power improvement at low speed is almost negligible. The impending hill climb tests should confirm this.
you're probably right, I'm getting power and torque mixed up I guess - but anyway, they do claim improved low speed torque so hopefully we'll get to see some of that in real life soon! Would be very embarrassing if they failed the Madd Maxx tests yet again...
is it not possible to have 30s on each enclosure (30s in front, 30s in back), and put the controller elsewhere like in the fins/fenders? the Inmotion Adventure is 30s4p and they put 30s1p in 4 separate hotswappable packs
maybe for a long distance cruiser vehicle design - but seems hard to pull off with a board that gets trashed on trails. EUCs just have soo much more space than a onewheel
thoughts on a top speed on a 18s2p 50S (84v) pack in a rewheeled GT and a GTS motor? would the additional voltage increase that number even further? love ur content, very informative
I hate to brake it to you but 18s is 75.6V - or else the FM controller and BMS (rewheeled or not) would throw a fit. But the extra 15-20% range should be great, there should be no downsides if the rewheel guys did it right!
Yes the motor definitely affects it but with higher voltage, euc manufacturers were able to get very close to high speed motor speeds with a same wattage HT motor in speed with the higher voltage without the trade-off of losing torque with less windings, but with what you explained maybe that was mostly the controllers that helped with that. I guess time will tell but my bet is it will be really hard to force nose dive between 5-20 mph. I would love to see one compared to the floatwheel adv.
GT motor (which is same as XR motor, they do have the same armature and winding designed for 63 V and not for 113v) so if you plug it into GT-S most likely the speed control is going to blow up, or the motor will overheat pretty quick and will create more problem
Just a small comment on what someone might want higher voltage - Hannes and few other people racing on 20s1P p45B pack. I guess just to have better balanced and lighter board. Going up to 22 or 24 cells might not be bad idea.
I might eventually build a 24s1p board just "for science" haha but yeah, it's the easiest way to boost your range/torque/top speed if you have a controller that can handle it. Finding space for 2-4 more cells is much easier than fitting another 20...
While I'm not surprised at some of their decisions, I'm hopeful that this board does well, just, if nothing else, to get more riders. All boards help the sport. I don't want one, but hey, that's okay. Thanks for your positive remarks.
I think you just need to look at how dyno testing devices are used. The torque always starts at zero and climbs up. A dyno may not be real life data but it gives you a good sense of how the motor works.
Higher Voltage with lower KV motor VESC options may allow for a lighter, slimmer, cooler/more efficient build. As with the GT-S a lower KV hypercore can provide more torque without moving to a heavier motor. I'm sure if there was demand techrails would produce a lower KV revolver stator. A race board doesn't need 36+ cells worth of range. Also a hypercore set at 150 motor amps with a heavy rider gets motor crunch breaking hard. I bet the GTS doesn't have any motor crunch.
@@dogbog99lower than 4.5A not really (diminishing returns) - but FM wanted to keep their 400 Watt Hypercharger platform I bet. That's why GT Hyper current went down from 6A to 5.2A even though the cells could easily support 12A fast charge current. The whole idea of a fast charger is to use it sparingly but when you need it. Now people will have to buy aftermarket chargers to actually fast charge... Hopefully FM didn't skimp on wire thickness and connector amp ratings (like in the PintX)
@@surfdado Thanks for the info, that’s how I’ve been using my chargers since my XR. Thanks for all the work you put into this sport/community and knowledge you share. I don’t feel like you get enough thank yous for all you do and just wanted to thank you personally while I can.
I don't think that changing the motor winding will affect the torque. This is because to create a lower KV motor you have to put more turns in, and to do that you use thinner wire and a longer length of it. Both of these things increase the resistance, so at the same battery voltage less current will flow. In the end this ends up cancelling out the increase in torque generated per amp that lower KV motors make. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2RESwrdAssU.htmlsi=kvt2y_4jI790iLG- This explanation does ignore the inductive properties, so I'd be interested to hear how that factors into this if someone has a good explanation of that.
I've read this assertion before, and I'm sure that to some extent there's diminishing returns in increasing torque by reducing kv, it's all black magic when it comes to Onewheels and torque isn't scientifically measured - and maybe increased perceived torque is primarily due to higher peak amps they now permit... However, the increased torque in the V1 Floatwheel motor vs v2 is very noticeable! Burnouts on asphalt are only possible with the V1...
@@surfdado maybe comparing same volts is easier, would a 2p 84v battery be more powerful than a 1p 84v? im curious with the GT being a 2p config, and the gt-s being a 1p config, if this plays any role in available power.
@@surfdado so back to my original question, would you say a 1p 113v battery is better than a 2p 84v? please excuse my lack of understanding with this stuff, thanks for your time.
@@deltax7159 again, better for what? 27s1p is worse for range, that's undeniable. Also 27s1p is worse than 18s2p for torque given an equal motor. Top speed obviously will be higher as speed is proportional to voltage
15:30 I know what you're trying to say, you're talking about if the graph were actually torque vs speed. But when it's power vs speed it is true that at zero speed all boards will have zero power since power = torque * RPM.
Power is also Volts x Amps - and I got logs that show 1000+ Watts climbing obstacles at near zero speed. The torque x RPM equation doesn't apply at near zero speed
@@surfdado I disagree about it not applying at near zero speed. I think it holds up in terms of mechanical power, but it doesn't match well with the electrical power than you are referring to due to poor efficiency. It's surely just best to talk about torque when at near zero, and not have to worry about that pesky multiplying by a tiny RPM thing.
You're right, most relevant races are downhill. But in the "unleashed" video I recall seeing one of the pro's saying "we are now racing uphill"... wouldn't it be nice if they didn't need shuttles for races anymore??
@@surfdado would be nice if their race has some kind of uphill section, it would feel more complete of a race. I feel 27s1p is more dangerous compared to 20s2p. Perhaps you explained that in your video about the voltage drop, another angle is if one cell fail you will be noise diving! It wouldn’t be good for tricking because less torque compared to 2p. I feel the pack will most likely fail sooner compared to 20s2p pack.
@@surfdado going up large hills on a onewheel is really hard on the onewheel. Maybe if it had a low gear for uphill climbs like a dirt bike it would make more sense.
@@surfdado ha! I’m just givin’ ya a hard time. 🤪 Your videos and influence in the electric wheeled board community is legendary. I love hearing your unfettered thoughts on VESC, Future Motion, and Floatwheel. Keep on floating man. 🤙
My problem with a lot of this reasoning is that it’s coming from someone who has invested hundreds of hours and a lot of money into something that isn’t just a side hobby but basically their life…. So telling people, including the vesc community, not to panic about the groundbreaking new FM board because with enough brains and elbow grease a avid vesc user may be able to assemble something comparable, is in my opinion very flawed… The reason why I believe vesc users should be so concerned is that there is going to be average Joe people buying this FM board, hopping on it out of the box, and having it perform better than all of the hours and time Vesc users have spent on their boards. That to me is the real pain for vesc users. For them, it will be time to hit the drawing boards again, and to spend countless more hours and time assembling and tinkering around with something new that can run on that level. (Not to mention vesc users will start that journey by cracking open a GTS and learning from it, and then hope to copy the ideas best they can 😂) From the beginning of vesc, its users boasted such superior results. But now, even the latest vesc set ups will have trouble beating this other board that little Johnny is messing around on down the street from you. That my friend is why there is a lot of uneasy vesc users and that is why some have “panicked.”
VESC users panicked because they fell for FM marketing hype. The reality is that most existing VESC boards are still more capable than the GT-S without any changes at all. And btw, it’s still just a hobby for me, I have zero interest in recruiting more people into the VESC camp…
@@surfdado the more capable part is clearly an opinion… And that’s nice it’s still just a hobby. For the vast majority of riders who call it a hobby have no idea how the board actually works and nor do they need to. So there’s a lot more learning going on there. But anyway, the time invested in Vesc is far more than just grabbing this board and having tech that Vesc users haven’t took a stab at yet. For me that’s cool. One purchase and I’ll be on the top. Nico had some pretty honest things to say about the next onewheel and I’m taking his word for it 🙌🏽
@@dezh2544 you call it an opinion, I call it a prediction - we'll find out soon enough. And feel free to call me out if I end up being wrong ;) But first reports indicate that the slow climb I went up is still not possible with any FM board
@@surfdado slow climb is one thing, dude… I expect something like the adv to “slow climb” better because of the tire advantage. But yeah, wait for the float life video to come out on a fair comparison of the adv and that’ll show you what you need to know. Once again m, feels so good to get something out of the box that completely eliminates the need for tinkering 😂
