They took something that had instant feedback and made it not only delayed feedback, but also completely opaque in what it's doing. It's gotten better in some ways with the display of the percentage you're in in your current skill tier division and the win/loss counter being added, but the system is still way less intuitive and understandable.
i honestly dont need numbers, just make it 1 loss / 1 win and keep the %, still instant feedback without "seeing it go down" fr tho, if you dont want a number to go down you shouldnt be playing ranked anyways
They removed the manipulation and people got mad. Will never make me stop laughing when ppl complain about the manipulation tactics the next time. The old Sr system was more obtuse but it tricked you into thinking it wasn't but hey that's what the people seem to want
@@lukasg4807I agree so much. If you hit 5 losses before you hit 5 wins its just delaying the inevitable. At best you'll go neutral and not move and at worst you rank down. Just gimme the auto derank instead of having me go 5 and 14
I'd be MORE anxious about contributing a loss to a mystery roulette I won't see the repercussions for until I randomly derank than losing 20 dopamine points, the only reason I'm NOT anxious about playing ranked anymore is the entire gamemode feels so devalued I'm not scared about it mattering (especially with role queue, only my tank games have meaning because I'm making a point playing doom, dps and supp are just for chilling with friends) Also I literally do 5 matches of placements, just barely overtake my all time career peak of d2 after 3 years since I last did the anxiety grind, so the rank doesn't feel like a big deal anymore?
5:35 my friend has been plat 4 tank since season 2 and hasn’t won a single match since then and is still plat 4 yet the roles he actually plays (support and dps) are silver and bronze
Riot has the middle ground with their rank system imo they just add a gap between older and newer players by adding extra tiers, just like how OW GM5/1 are very different same with like how league had a gap with D5/D1 players so they added emerald
I can’t wait until we get those weirdly personal insults to people for maining a character. For instance “I know there is gonna be that one diehard Reaper main and I hope you get Slept at the start of Death Blossom.”
The progression system is not working! I reached lvl 33 on Lucio and there arn't even noticable stat increases! Sure my firerate went up but thats it! I have only gotten slower! My healing has been going down every match! I can't seem to unlock any new abilities! The environmental kills badge is imposible to level. Trowing myself of the map also doesn't work! The skill tree is unfindable! I don't know how many perk points I have! matchmaking makes my teammates scream at me constantly! all around 8/10 not a bad experience.
flats talks about gm like it isn't already the top 5-10% of players. Anyone who gets there based on their performance deserves to be gm regardless of how long they've been playing the game. And no, making a new bracket up top is not gonna help anything, like what's the point? you want to match with only uber GM's? welcome to scrims and custom games, or have fun waiting 40 minutes... this concept is just like any other quantifiable skillset in the human population that follows normal distribution. You don't measure above the top 1+1% which is the top500 in OW. But if you want to do that, he should also campaign for paper/plastic 5 as well...
I will die on the hill of Cassidy's grenade sucks. Magnetic nade isnt even fitting to his character. Smoke grenade that has enemy reveal makes way more sense with his cowboy-sona
I get the idea of going against the anxiety of the numbers changing every game but it backfired badly. As someone that struggles with anxiety this is my comp experience: Win 4 games, lose 4 games in a row, get anxiety for the next game and stop playing comp for the rest of the season.
makes sense but for me it was the opposite. In the previous system it wasnt anxiety but frustration. It felt like I was making no progress, win lose win lose I stay the same. Win Win lose and somehow back to where I started. No progress. This new system, up or down at least I feel like im going somewhere. Old system I felt hard stuck, this system I feel like I can climb. OW1 I was stuck in gold, got into plat thanks to friends, stayed in plat even without them for multiple seasons (number always roughly the same), rank decayed back to gold and I couldnt get back into plat before 2 released. In Overwatch 2 (sure the game is fundamentally different now), but I managed to climb from gold all the way to Masters 5 lobbies before falling back into diamond.
Yeah, like I hated my numbers going down, but I had a good rank up streak, ended 2-0, played with friends one night and then was 2-7, got my new rank at 5-13… I did not want to keep playing bc you know it’s going down
Ong i loved the old rank system they said the numbers bring “anxiety” but with this new ranked system i can win 4 in a row but then boom fucking lose the next 5 games
I think ranked would be better if it updated after every 5 games regardless of win or loss. As someone who only queues flex I have had several times where I’ve got a win and the game shows my score and I realise I’ve got 1-5 on dps on something without any way of knowing I’m even on a loss streak. It just makes me not want get a game in that role after seeing how I’m doing when all the games just kind melt into one.
it would help but it wouldn't fix it. every game is weighted differently based on each teams mmr so you could still end up with a 3 win 2 loss that deranks you. it's understandable because you won easy matches and lost more balanced ones so you should go down but when the game shows you "3 wins, 2 loss, net loss" your brain is screaming that is not fair. imo the only solution is "number goes up or down each match"... if someone can't handle the anxiety then maybe a competitive environment isn't the best place for them.
Nothing like feeling pumped for popping off 5 games in a row then getting all the joy sucked out of you when you get a lower rank because you lost 4 games the day before. That way you can feel sad when you lose and when you win. Thanks, Blizzard!
I was gm1 last season, but when I went 5-5 in my tank placements at the start of this season it dropped me from gm1 to gm4. I went 5-0 in my next set and only went up to gm2. Rank decay is stupid lol.
@@samanthahill8780the rank decay for a player that actively plays the game is already the dumbest idea. Why should he drop 4 divisions for going neutral in the first place?
I get that some people like to see their SR, but for me I found I obsessed over it so much it made me feel miserable. All I'd ask is if they do bring it back, they give the ability to hide it. a visibility toggle is not a lot to ask.
yeah sorry seeing 2-10 vs seeing a number change value will be indefinitely more depressing and stress inducing when im on a huge losing streak the thought isn't ah well go next "its how many ranks am i going down"
My main annoyance that started killing my motivation in comp back in OW 1 was just watching my SR climb with small numbers with wins and having the higher stats that it required to have to climb up to diamond and watching 2-3 wins worth of SR get wiped after 1 loss.
THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. Who thought it was a good idea to weight Losses far more than Wins? You only do that if you want to overly punish your player for losing as opposed to rewarding your player for winning.
i think that’s your MMR that never happened to me and i’ve only seen that happen to the very high top 500 players they would earn like 10 sr but lose 30
@@ForeverDegenerate if you won more than you lost you'd be able to climb on negative winrates, it's not rocket science. the only time any game i've played decides to give you more ladder points for wins than for losses is if your MMR is way too high for the rank you're at and the game wants to push your rank up, if your mmr and rank are close as they should be then in no world would you ever win more than you lose lol
Think Flats is right on about needing a new rank added if they went back to the old Overwatch rating system. It was the best thing they did in Rocketleague as it showed the real difference between people at the cusp of GM and the people who were sitting comfy at the top.
The main issue I had with ranked in OW 1 was when they had that change to artificially increase the difficulty of getting back to the rank you had the previous season by de-ranking you down by 1000 points. I ended up in elo hell for 2 seasons and I gave up on playing ranked because of it.
The only thing I had any complaints about OW’s ranked system was that there was no break down of the personal performance modifiers for +/- from the base SR gained/lost at end of match. I want to know what it is you expect me to be doing better. +17sr makes ya really wanna know where the -8sr went
More than likely, you lost the match. Let's be honest, as great as OW1's Rank System was, the fact that they weighted Losses so far more than Wins was absurd. I mean that one factor was weighted so much that even if you played the match of your life and you played perfect, if your team lost the match, Good Luck.
@@hektik2200 So what you're saying is that weight had nothing to do with it, but it was outright Loss Bias? That's kinda bs. Still... better than what we have now.
Going a step beyond people thinking their progression levels mean anything...I've seen people whole-heartedly state that since they have a high endorsement level they're better at the game than someone with a low endorsement level...I cannot make this shit up
I think Rocket League has a good ranked system. Would overwatch be able to handle that or would it be bad? Its basically just an mmr system but not shown. So people know their rank (but not mmr) + they wont randomly rank down after winning more than losing.
The problem OW has always had (and this also applies to OW1) is that the ranked system forces you to hard win streak to climb. Otherwise the system tries to keep you at your rank. You shouldn't have a positive winrate and not climb - if that's the case then the matchmaking or rating system is broken. This isn't a uniquely OW problem. I was Diamond in R6S in the first few years when I played, and we had to win 3 games for every loss in order to climb or maintain rank. That's a massive issue in either matchmaking or ratings climbing.
I fr want the ranked system to bring back sr, matchmake based off of sr, not mmr, and have a leaderboard that’s not just t500 but every single player in the game. You could hop on and be like I’m ranked 11,587th NA
i feel like cass nade is VERY broken depending on what hero you are going against. as a level 20 doom main(sarcasm) i can say that cass removes 2 abilities and my ultimate and it chases me down to the ends of the earth so flats isnt wrong in saying that its weak but at the same time depending on what matchup you have it can be very weak or VERY strong
As for what you said about the skill disparity probably needint a new rank - that's VERY similar to what Rocket league did with Super Sonic Legend, making a new highest "top 1%" rank when it went free-to-play on epic games after the studio got absorbed. I think it would translate perfectly here as well.
Really the anxiety transforms from "I lost 60sr!" To "I'm 4-13 and I have no idea how far I'll fall". They didn't fix it all they just shifted it. Most people who actually care about playing comp what so ever either wouldn't care or would heavily prefer to see the number
1:50 - :s Flats, I genuinely admire your gameplay and ability to roll with punches and entertain, but I think you're being a bit naive just parroting that reason for the change to rank. It's a more addictive system. That's the real reason. It makes incentives for you to come back to see the reveal. A hardstuck gold 1 player can keep doing 5 matches at a time and going nowhere thinking they are close, but if they actually saw their sr it would be stable, so Bliz hid that. Also the "just one more till i rank up" thing, and it essentially being a lootbox to see if you got lucky or not. The change was NOT to be user friendly, it is to take advantage of player mentality. Very different concepts.
I gave up on ranked back when this video was made because my rank just dropped even when I had a decent winrate Going 10-6 sounds decent right? 5-6 dropped my from plat 3 to gold 1 and then 5-0 only took me to plat 5😢
The ranking stuff is so weird cuz I was doing open queue rank with some friends and I had the same win to loss ratio as someone else in the group (only one loss the rest wins, we already had a match or two from previous sessions that we didn’t play together) and I got gold 3 while they were put in silver we were both so confused
Honestly, yes, seeing the SR number back would be better, but as far as im concerned, whether we see that number again or go with the 5 Wins/20 Losses rank update, i always had the feeling that wins were not better than losses. Like, the competitive in OW2 feels generally like you do 1 step forward, but 2 backwards. We should straight up get more points than when we lose, and im not talking a 1,75 point difference between winning and losing... 25 fucking points for Victory and just TEN for losing. You win just two games, and you jumped up 50 points. So this means that it takes 5 consecutives losses to screw that up. Why isnt THAT rewarding? It generates way less anxiety and the FUN remains for longer. If you really fuck up those 50 points you got, this means you really played badly for FIVE games. THEN you really see that you underperformed. On the other hand, lining 2-3-4 victories gives you a lot of points and psychologically puts you in a better state to improve and give you MOTIVATION to keep playing. Losses will have a lesser impact on your morale. Am i crazy to think about this simple feature or what? This poor guy definitely did GOOD with a 5-4 and fucking deranked. My recent streak was 5-8 and i stayed Diamond 4, didnt even moved from there! How does this make any flipping sense? Its ME who should have deranked, not him!
I was Silver 1 97% better but the fact of playing 5 OR 15 games makes me so sad and so discouraged because i was so close and now i feel like im so incredibly far that I could lose it all going 0-2 and then not want to touch it ever again scared of the outcome. I think that's just the main problem is how you never wanna play or get so incredibly discouraged that your almost expecting a loss. I can't just win a game I have to win 5 or I'm doomed.
The overwatch 1 ranked system was my favorite out of any game. And then overwatch 2 happened and genuinely made me stop playing this game. Tank is the only role I like and now its my least favorite role and I have very little enjoyment. It sucks that I would be playing more overwatch now if they had just kept it overwatch 1 and updated nothing than I do now with overwatch 2
Nah for the first one it is true, you keep the displayed rank because you never finish that last match for the card to change. Your MMR might be play but you’d still be showing a diamond rank.
Hearing you say the new top 500 players are somewhat diamond players in your opinion just makes me depressed as i hit bronze 5 in dps and bronze 1 in support..like of those new top 500 are "diamond" then my bronze 5 is like not even a rank 😂😂😂 in those standards lol
I win 5 games with 2 to 3 loses per 5 and ive been stuck in D5. I just quit playing comp since the games dont feel competitive enough and it wont actually let me climb and I dont know why. Like is the system expecting me to lose 2 or less per 5 to go up?
Bro I got silenced for 12 days straight and I don’t remember saying anything that bad, and then it’s 12 days like I read that your first time should be 1-3 days how tf did I get 12?
I'm still 5 minutes in and I'm not sure if I'm crazy or flats crazy but if I choose not to play OverWatch for like two to three seasons come back and play again and I'm still gold 5 I don't think I'm actually going down
People getting anxiety over rank? Just don't play it if you know you suck and you'll lose all your matches. We lost a decent system because of a bunch of kids that cry after a loss
I know for a fact there is a bug that just lies to you about how many losses you get when you finish a set because I went 5-7 but it told me I went 5-2, I wonder if that's adding an extra layer of confusion to the ranked system
Fr I'm df otp on make to diamond 5 every season after season 2 or 3 n I allways go back no forth between plat 1 n diamond 5 so ik I'm only at a plat leavle but damn I wish I was improving
5:16 wasn't like this for me I ended the season at masters 5, 4-11, then in the new season I was still masters 5 but as soon as I got a new rank update I went 5-1) I went from Masters 5 to Diamond 4, so it stays the same rank but it keeps the MMR loss thing
