Former rector of GIKI engineering university, Dr. Shaukat Hameed Khan, in conversation with Pervez Hoodbhoy, tells why engineering is taught so badly in Pakistan.
For a society to produce good innovative engineers, there also needs to be a robust industrial base. Engineering graduates, including freshly minted PhDs are not engineers yet; rather, they are ready to learn engineering discipline. 10 years of work in their chosen area could possibly make them into a mid level engineer. Take this from an ex professor of electrical engineering at two major US universities, plus 20 years work in aerospace engineering companies like Northrop, Raytheon, Boeing, etc.
قرآن 2;8 لوگوں میں وہ لوگ ہیں جو کہتے ہیں کہ "ہم اللہ پر اور قیامت کے دن پر بھی ایمان رکھتے ہیں" لیکن وہ مومن نہیں ہیں ۔9 وہ اللہ کو اور مومنوں کو دھوکہ دینے کے درپے ہیں لیکن وہ اپنے آپ کو چھوڑ کر کسی کو نہیں دھوکہ دیتے ہیں ان کے دلوں میں بیماری ہے ، اور اللہ نے ان کی بیماری میں اضافہ کیا ہے۔ ان کے انکار کی وجہ سے انہیں تکلیف دہ عذاب ملے گا۔ واقف نہیں ہیں۔ [یہ ان نام نہاد ہند / پاک اور کشمیر کے گندے کلین شیو سیکولرسٹوں کی حیثیت ہے ، نیم منافقین '' اگر وہ خلوص سے توبہ کریں اور زندہ رہیں اور اسلامی شریعت کے اصولوں پر عمل کریں تو اللہ کا کہنا ہے کہ وہ ان کو معاف کردے۔
Is it possible for a group of engineer- entrepreneurs to build base for low tech , small scale industry like embedded electronics, power transformers even if a nation/place has poor industrial base?
The whole objective of the engineer is to DESIGN BUILD TEST But this Emphasis is missing in these universities. I noted the focus is on teaching the typical pure sciences like: Mathematics Electronics Classical Mechanics Structural mechanics Mechanical vibrations Materials science Manufacturing Technology Thermodynamics Engineering Drawing Computer Aided Design And its essential to focus on them because actually designing building and testing a product requires knowledge and skills from these fields but the Pakistanis do not do many group projects and don’t emphasise enough that these are merely TOOLS for engineering not the objective
@@sarthakmishra1415 If you have the designs and the companies approved it You just need the Manufacturing System which is expensiv Maybe convince the company to buy for you
Thank you for exposing Atta-ur-Rehman's incompetence. He single-handedly taken Pakistani education system 50yr backwards. Prof.Dr Nasir Fazal Cambridge USA.
Madam Dr atta ne during his PhD nobel laureate ko disprove kiya tha,wo FRS k member hain aur 2nd Muslim hain jinko unesco prize mila tha tou kya hum unko kaabil scientist keh skte hain chahye wo corrupt hain lekin scientist ache hain kya?
Teach children to think, self learn via the internet, research and innovate at school and then they will build new industries. Set up one stop shop online government and many tax free special economic zones with dry ports to increase exports.
difficult in a place like Pakistan where debt , corruption, religious fanaticism is on a high. No one would like to invest in a place where for a mere cartoon ,comment ahalf of the country and its economy come to a grinding halt
Excellent summing up!!! In the UK it is distressing to see bright young people parrot things that “such and such” study/ profession is “haram”. A living tragedy.
The head of the institutions need to understand that every well educated and skilled, qualified person does not prove to be a good teacher. That thinking is also a tiny part of the problem. Not to forget the flawed managerial procedures 😔
@@beastman.330 it's not Islam, but humans who did the innovation. this is as stupid as saying Christianity discovered gravity because of Newton. If it had really anything to do with your book or ideology then thousands of madrassas in Pakistan would have been producing scientists and philosophers. In reality it only produced terrorists like Taliban.
Being an Civil engineer myself, who is now working on Artificial Intelligence and Machine learning, my opinion on the matter is that we have very little interesting innovation going on in the universities, having no link to the industry. National Geographics par Civil Engineering se related documentary deki to mou mein pain a jata hain, es ki bajaye university mein jao to shayed Dimagh mein pani a jaye logo ke.
Pervez saab....Could you please release english versions of all your videos whenever its possible (and you have time for it etc, even subtitles would be fine). Your content is so valuable and needs more reach!
Baba jab apni kitab se bahar nahi ayenge aray jo pujna hai apne ghar science pado keval free thanking rational thinking se pade religion alag hai science alag hai don't mix it
The post graduate and research atmosphere in India is not so great mainly because most of the top brains move to USA after graduation. But the fact the one Indian vaccine (Covaxin) is already being used and proved to be as very good and one more (Zydus) in the final stages will hopefully give Indians the confidence to do basic medical research especially since there is a strong Pharma manufacturing base to fund research and convert findings commercially should be a great advantage. All inspite of the chaos
@@cauliflowerhead2735 nah it's still controversial to claim that. Actual report takes atleast 4-5years. covishield failed to show more efficiency than covax for mutated variants
In an academic discussion Mullah and Military points have set in. The nation really has a massive fundamental challenge. Hope Pakistan moves away from this retrograde political scenario.
@Fahad Wasi Good question Fahad. Most of those active Mullahs are in North India. And thankfully India has never had a Military rule. Also the impact of Mullahs even within our larger society is limited. Let me give you an example of what's silently changing. In 1997 when I was interning at Tata there were just 1-2 Muslims among 100. Today I'm in a different company but equally large and I can say that about 14-18% are Muslims and all are qualified. This is a massive change and no media will show you this. I have instructed all our HR recruiters to be fair in recruitment. And not just me look across any company Reliance, Tata, Birla, Mahindra, Infosys, and so on, even Muslim girls can be found working. Isn't that a great thing And I think precisely this is what is fundamentally different between our nations. I wish good for Pakistan as well.
@Fahad Wasi Excellent. As I always mention whenever there is an India Pakistan dialogue that many years ago my ancestral house was split between brothers. Many years later they became our distant relatives and nowadays they are our neighbors. Sometimes I hear a comment that look at our neighbors they are so much like us. It makes me laugh, calling out the similarities. Ditto happened for many Bengalis. Ditto for states which were created from one large state. Why do you expect Indians and Pakistanis to be different? The only difference is that Pakistan is created, man-made. I expect that in next 50 years there will be free movement of people. Maybe without visa as well in the latter part of the 50 years. Maybe you and me may not live that long. Let logic and sanity prevail over religion and ego.
@Fahad Wasi Mannmade means ideological state. My ancestral house was split due to something similar. All I'm saying is that when people from either side of the border express surprise that we both look like each other, speak like each other, eat like each other such comments make me laugh. And by the way dear friend I am a chilled person. Easy go.
Very good discussion on issues of higher education in Pakistan. India has just formulated New Education Policy by taking inputs from various stake holders and experts and soon will be implemented. Some of the features are more emphasis on practicals than theory. Linkages of universities will be increased with farmers, industries and foreign universities. I appreciate this programme of Prof. Hoodbhai. Respect from India.
I graduated from UET in 1988 with a bachelor degree in electrical engineering. I studied several subjects about power plants , generation, transmission, distribution but did not spend a single day in a power plant. I don’t know what’s their policy now but during my time there was absolutely no concept of internship or any real life experience. Here in America you can not get your degree until you complete your six months internship.
This may look like an intellectual discussion, but in reality it shows the level of intellectual bankruptcy that prevails in Pakistan. The summary of this entire lengthy discussion is that science and technology cannot take root in that wretched country.
My cousin did Electrical engineering from UET Peshawar He was very intelligent but he learned nothing practically. I don't know whose fault it is ? The university or student?
Saudi Arabia, China and many other countries attracted foreign faculty using same formula. We are still there while China is now world economic power and I personally know two Nobel Laureate who have their labs in China and in the US.
Here is the problem. Even in India, Muslims do not chose science and engineering. Even though all facilities are available. No one stops them. In IITs only 1 to 2% Muslims. Though population is above 15% and growing. All other minorities are prospering doing much better. Muslims leaders need to focus on real education and then only Muslims will get benefits. They continue to do the lowers level jobs.
@Vinamra Singhai Very sad. Somehow their leaders are pushing them to a path which keeps them away from science and they never advance. I have not seen any senior leader raising this.
Apart from national and state varsity league colleges India still has a lot of work to do in its education system. I don't believe we're better off when a lot of out colleges promote rote learning.
You are right. Indian Universities need to tie up with top Western Universities to do top notch research. Innovations will happen when they tie up with industries.
Our country education system wouldn't allow us to think and reason independently just accept whatever has been teaching. If we argue or disagree with teachers then they will be going to fail in final exams because their ego hurts.
Sir VCs also not that capable to implement standards for quality. Oxford, Cambridge etc. are also run by humanbeings on this earth. Why cannot VCs convince authorities regarding quality visions. They cannot withstand political oressures. They content with status quo and in state of inertia.
In a closed society where there is no freedom to think on your own, it is difficult for science or arts or culture to develop to its full potential . That is problem with all Islamic countries and societies. I don’t think anybody in these societies have given this a thought. We have to be open minded and free thinking for the mind to develop to its full potential. Whether it is philosophy, religion, The sciences, Arts or to solve complex problems in life. Please think about this.
sir he will impose secular system in the country, break the already weak fabric of our morally degraded society. what prof. hoodbhoy has done for pakistan. has he build anything indiginous for benefits of his own department or for the country. these problems should have been focussed during 1980-2000 during which other nations (specially our neighbour) were focussing on IT by sending people to europe and US. and our leaders were busy fighting for their regimes. but with allah help, we will progress in any case. our youth is more aware.
sir science and technology is a must not only to improve quality of life but also to survive in this fast progressing planet. no system will be successful if are not able to compete with the rest of the world (see afghanistan, iraq, syria). The west isolated state and religion because their religion was distorted or they distorted it himself. We have a religion which will be intact forever. The choice is apparent.
Mostly university teachers are behaving with students as mudrassa molvis do. Great reforms needed but the focal point of TEACHER. His qualities, personality, capacity, vision, dedication, training, motivation, loyal and sincereity with students and institution,
Sir why we going downward in academics by university professors: 1. Lust for money instead of knowledge by professors 2. Nusance value, how to have it 3. local phDs 4. Promotions only on degree ignoring yearly performance 5. Merit not followed to select them 6. Very poor motivation stds 7. Ignorant of innovative skills 8. No monitoring, fear of ounishmnts
One of the methods of improvement would be benchmarking: Mantra is competition improves quality Have the education ministry bring out an annual ranking of in each disciple like engineering, medicine, management, law, agricultural & veterinary sciences, basic
ٹیکنیکل ایجوکیشن سب سے اہم ہے ۔ جیسے ہمارے وقتوں میں ٹیکنیکل سکول ہوتے ھے ۔ جس کے بچے کے دماغ میں ٹیکنیکل معلومات کا پروسیسر ایٹیویٹ ہوتا تھا اور وہ گھروں میں چھوٹےموٹے ٹیکنیکل کام سر انجام دیتا تھا ۔ بوڑھے نے سب سے پہلے چوتھی کلاس میں ٹائم پیس کھولا تھا (خالد مہاجرزادہ)
A serious question: Till now, Pakistan has not produced a sewing needle. What are the educational, engineering, economical & political reasons for this?
The second way is to create a to competitive environment for admission to engineering and medical colleges. Of course the basic requirement is create a supply of quality schools and students. The central school and CBSE systems have contributed enormously to creating a very healthy competition for professional courses. Against 5-6 IITs and IIMs each and one AIIMS today there is one of each in every one of the states say about 25 each. With completion most are moving up the ladder in quality. I see this as replica table model.
There are downsides to heavy competition as well. In Tamilnadu, a resolution is to be passed which might curtail or even ban NEET. The toxic examination culture prevailing in Asia makes education less enjoyable and more of a burden for children. Finland doesn't have examination per se. It has one of the top education in the world. The method is to not to reduce education into a rot-learning, boring series of examination. It's about making it interesting. Also, not to forget such entrance exams heavily benefit the rich as they can afford to attend tutions which poor children can't. This would further lead to ever increasing gap between rich and the poor.
You failed to create any meaningful impact while in planning commission, now here you are being expressed intectctual and wisdom full personality... This holds true for both of you
All his talk is full of mumble jumbles rather than anything of substance....his mindset is very trite to say the least...again that same old age bullshi that Islam is hindrance to scientific development without realizing the fact that Islam prepare Muslims to be proactive all the time by calling out that ever lasting struggle which is known as Jihad....mind you this struggle is continuous just like continuous improving process...how can muslim be backward?? As claim by this dumbo hoodie boy...Arabs are the inventor of chess which is based on probability theory, and this probability theory leads to quantum mechanics.....Turks of khilafat e usmania was the pioneer of ship technology,Dutch and British navy’s were never the pioneer...it was britishers who got take over the paper industry and change the narrative of whole history and presented themselves as pioneer of this sea excursion
For God sake tell govt functionaries to bring in quality teachers in privat as well as govt engineering and med universities. No checking , monitoring on professors,
یہ لوگ سرمایہ ہیں ۔ ان کی قدر کریں کہ دور تک ان جیسا کوئی نہیں دکھائی دیتا اس ملک میں۔ کیا سیر حاصل اور شعور کو شعور کو اجاگر کرنے والے گفتگو کی دونوں اصحاب نے ۔ تعلیم کے معیار کو اگر بہتر کرنا ہے اور اقوام عالم کیساتھ چلنا ہے تو ان جیسے اصحاب کو بااختیار کرنا ہو گا۔
I like Dr. Shaukat's point that engineering universities must provide a good foundation in basic sciences.. I am an engineer and I know all the stuff required to run a process.. however, when it comes to designing, I am not trained very well in mathematics. My knowledge in physics very much limited to principles I need to know as an engineer but there I am missing how these principles are formed.. It seems the same with our teachers.. they are also devoid of fundamentals.. just teaching facts of an engineering subject
the mathematics subject in engineering universities should be taught by an engineer, not by a phd in mathematics. because if one engineer whose mathematics is good he can give examples from engineering and can apply maths in engineering
@@rajibdattaroy9105 physics and chemistry are ok. But maths have some advanced subjects like linear algebra and applied mathematics. These should be taught by an engineer.
Vocational disadvantage is a huge problem in talent attraction and retention. This is a problem faced in India as well. For higher education, the foundational schooling has to be great. Great educationists needed and religion and politics has to be our of the window. In India privatisation of education has taken the levels forward. Individuals have to become more affluent and the economy has to support. And this will happen by peace and tranquility.
Dr. Hoodbhoy, why to go to Europe, why not mak collaborations with Indian Institute of Technologies IIT,s. In mid Fifties India started with 4 IIT,s , with foreign collebratiom, 1 in Delhi, 1 in Bombay, 1 in Kanpur, and 1 in Madras. Now India has more than 24 IITs . Foreign collebration was only with the initial 4 IITs, all the rest have been set up by Indian academics and financial resources. Indian IITs rank among the best universities among the world.
डा परवेज साहब ,नमस्कार। आपके कुछ वीडियोज देखने से बहुत प्रभावित हूं हांलाकि बहुत पढ़ाई नही की है। एक फिजिक्स के रिसर्च साइंटिस्ट दोस्त ने 48 साल पहले मुझे ये बताया कि जहां टेस्ट ट्युब भी अपने पैसों से खरीदनी पडती है वैसी खस्ताहाल यूनिवर्सिटियों में अस्ल रिसर्च होता है ओर उस वक्त वो खुद देश की नामी रिसर्च इन्स्टिटय़ूट में रिसर्च कर रहा था।
Once upon a time NED graduates who had studied in Nazimabad and Jamshed road Urdu medium schools, established themselves in Silicon Valley. Things were not so bad in United Pakistan. By the way NED was only a college.
Thought provoking discourse - To survive in this time n age we've to rebuild the whole new educational system . or we can follow the footsteps of Europe they've already brought the elephant in the room .
Europe universities also provide adequate funding, right environment, professionalism without politics and entrepreneurship industry etc which pakistan do not have
@@vanshstalin1402 state of pakistan has no interest in nation building for various reasons . That's the only reason othereise they can put adequate funds in it .
Of 28 minutes of this VDO, around 25 minutes spent on bitching about Pakistan education system and no much time spent on solution of how we can improve Pak education system. I believe we know the problem, we should suggest solutions to enlighten the masses what to ask from Government in improving the education in Pak.
Discussion was interesting. Dr. Shaukat Hameed managed the interview very well. He didn't fall for any of the traps set by Dr. Hoodbhoy and answered questions with facts and shared his personal experiences in positions of authority. Bashing Dr. Ataur Rehman (FRS) for everything is not at all helpful. The whole system is plagued with problems. You can't keep blaming General Zia ul Haq and the Mullahs for everything that happens in this country in 2021. Please start providing solutions.
Sir research, teaching but motivation inspiration and personality devpmnt ( vision broadning process) be the job of faculties. Only writing pages will make things worse.
Primarly, the industry-academic linkage in pakistan is insufficient. Secondly, the engineering courses offered in pakistan are designed for R&D and innovation purpose. The engineering industry in pakistan requires good quality technologist and associate engineers. Even in highly advanced engineering economies like germany, courses are offered in both applied engineering as well as research engineering. If Gov of pakistan gives special concessions to industries who work together with technical institues, it may bring a positive effect howevers it should be evaluated rather on long term basis like more than 10 years.
Two events changed mind of Dr. Wafa Sultan (Syrian.. very pakka Musalman) (1st) Her cousin force to marry her uncle who was 45 & cousin was 9 year old. She had four children. At age 25, she committed secede. (2nd) Wafa Sultan's professor of medical was killed in classroom, in front of her. Of course with war cry "Allah O Akbar". That moment Wafa Sultan said to herself I need different God.
Have dr hoodbhoy ever been to an engneering univerdity. Only nalaiq students go for Msc and phd as they cannot get admission in any engneering university. By the what is physical contribution of Dr Hoodbhoy in the development of pakistan except tv talks
Most of the youngsters interested to go out of the country only to get proper univerity education just because of the behaviours of their teachers. The need is proper effective powerful nutral monitoring system. Promotions be on the basis of performance not qualifications of PhD
@Fahad Wasi when our military budget will be more than health and education combined when metro bus will be our prioirty when our heroes will be khadim hussain rizvi and ertugul rather than abdus salam and edhi than this will happen what is happening in our country
If jinnah would be alive today he would cry seeing current situation of Pakistan. I feel sympathetic for Mr jinnah he was suffering from cancer but still fought for his people.
@Fahad Wasi yes but we dont have nuclear bombs for just exhibition no country would fight nuclear armed country in full battle and invasion is not easy india can never ever invade pakistan people will rise in masses.india can launch only proxy war against pakistan so we dont need such big army but the thing we should be worried about is our economy which is smaller than mumbai day by day this gap is increasing india is poised to become larger economy than USA what will be the power of pakistan in the world then do you think any country will dare to upset india just for us.pakistan army have ruled pak for 70 years directly through martial law and indirectly through puppet govt imran khan,nawaz,zardari.after 70 years here we are a fail nation.there is some serious problem with our corrupt military establsihment
God decorated the world by multinational multicultural multi races and religions. Difference races différence ideas and intellectuals. So we need to collect knowledge from various races and religions.As same as the bee collects honey from the various flowers. And that honey becomes of the world best. Just panjab base everything is not going forward and progress. I wish your all the best sir from Bangladesh.
Dr Hood ! The "Reconstruction..." of Iqbal is deep rooted. Dr Shaukat is also praise worthy of that but you have let it pass ! Whereas yours discussions elsewhere do not support that.
