Plasma Trigonelline: A Mediator For Dietary Trigonelline To Increase NAD? (8-Test Analysis) 

I agree, trigonelline's definitely expensive. But if it increases NAD while reducing homocysteine, it may be worth it, at least for me.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I am watching all your videos and following your great and meticulous experimentation. Very informative. Very helpful. Thank you!. I am curious to learn regarding your NAD+ journey and the expensive supplements you have tried/trying: why haven't not tried the Nuchido's supplement?

Hi @quik4life, daily diet, including recipe and pics are posted on Patreon I can make that video, but I can't promise when... The diet is mostly the same, but that's because of 9 years of different iterations, and following correlations with blood (and other, SWS%, BP) biomarkers The meal timing is a bit different on workout days, as I end the eating window by ~1PM, whereas on in person work days ~90% of the diet is eaten from 430 - 730AM. Always on a post-workout meal, and includes a cooked mix (collards, tomato, chickpeas, serrano peppers or other flavoring agents (onion, garlic), with peanut/coconut butter, sprouts, turmeric, black pepper, salt, and mustard powder added after cooking Then, a giant smoothie (11 oz beets, 70g parsley, 20 oz water, 13 oz frozen strawberries, and a flavoring agent (ginger, vanilla bean, or cinnamon)

Me too! Sending blood tomorrow. I'm skeptical-I don't feel any different, HRV-RHR not different, no impact on sleep...

I might go back to NMN, but nicotinamide (also found in NMN) increases homocysteine, which is currently resistant to lowering despite adequate methyl donors (4g of TMG didn't work, other interventions, too) I see trigonelline as the best bet for increasing NAD while decreasing homocysteine-I covered that in an earlier video on the channel

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thanks. I'll have to find that video. You done any testing with folic acid and b12 for the homocysteine? Recall you trying b6 before for NAD.

Hi @JA-hj2tn, both no Serratia with 0.6 and 0.3% vanillin. I haven't figured out the next step, whether to go lower (0.3%), or collect more data without vanillin...

Hi @xscale, is there published data that radish has more trigonelline than clover? I haven't come across that data.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I don't know about more, but sakurajima has been used in human trials to good effect. See www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7353243/ "A first-in-human trial using Sakurajima radish showed that ingestion of 170 g/day of Sakurajima radish for ten days increased blood trigonelline concentrations and significantly improved flow-mediated dilation, which is a measure of vascular endothelial function. Overall, our findings suggest that the trigonelline contained in Sakurajima radish may contribute to improved human vascular endothelial function. Hence, Sakurajima radish may enhance vascular endothelial function as a functional food."

Interestingly, NAD is not significantly correlated with homocysteine (10 tests, p=0.93).

Michael, this observation you state here in this reply is super interesting. I think this maybe brings up a question at the highest level of this strategy: does Le Chatelier's principle actually apply in this metabolic pathway? It's clear it certainly does in a beaker, but with enzymes and cofactors involved, I wonder if the overall approach maybe is too simplistic?

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 They don't seem to have any direct pathway relationship so perhaps not surprising. If you found a molecule that targeted both there could be a correlation, mediated by that molecule. No such molecule yet.

Average intake is ~100 mg/d, so 1g supplemental is a 10x increase. No obvious side effects during the 10d period, fortunately.

Ah, that's likely a poor kidney function story, as NAD will be degraded to form trigonelline (among other metabolites, including 2PY and 4PY) There's no evidence of that being true in my data, as without trigonelline-rich foods, plasma trigonelline was very low, 0.3uM I increased NAD to > 40 uM with as short as 7 days of other NAD precursors, so 10d should work The first step is seeing if it impacts NAD-I'll also send blood for metabolomic analysis on Friday. If NAD is higher, then it will likely stay until the approach until the next blood test (late July/early Aug)

It's Renue's product, but I didn't want to mention it until I had data for the trigonelline-NAD experiment (about 2 weeks away) Interesting about green coffee-I tried that in the past, and was terrible-have you measures NAD and/or plasma trigonelline? There's published that that up to 8 cups of regular coffee/d doesn't increase plasma trigonelline > 7 uM, which is what I saw with clover sprouts.

​@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I'm ADHD so I take Ritalin, I try to reduce my caffeine consumption due to this medication. I also try to get Trigonelline wherever I can find it. Green coffee that is still warm is indeed VILE. It has the taste of a bitter and unripe bean soup. If you let it get really cold, or if you straight-up cold brew it, you'll find it is a very refreshing drink with a rather mild taste, it's almost like water. Here's some numbers for the caffeine content: A regular cup of coffee contains about 100 mg of caffeine per cup, green coffee contains roughly 20 mg per cup. From my calculations, you can expect 400mg of trigonelline in 4 cups of espresso coffee, which would be 400mg of caffeine. If you use green coffee instead, it would be 80mg of caffeine. But as you mention, it might not be enough to dramatically increase plasma trigonelline. I don't test my plasma content of Trigonelline, I live in France and such tests are much more expensive here (My latest test was for homocysteine which cost me over a 100€. Oof.). I'm not aiming to specifically increase NAD, researchs shows that Trigonelline consumption is correlated to a bunch of health benefits, so I added it to my daily regiment through seeds, Daikon radish (More available than Sakurajima radish) and green coffee, then I cross my fingers and hope for the best ! Ahahah. I'm quite excited to see the results of your next experiment, and I'll very likely add Clover sprouts to my little Broccoli sprout farm, thanks a lot 😁

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 ​ I'm ADHD so I take Ritalin, I try to reduce my caffeine consumption due to this medication. I also try to get Trigonelline wherever I can find it. Green coffee that is still warm is indeed VILE. It has the taste of a bitter and unripe bean soup. If you let it get really cold, or if you straight-up cold brew it, you'll find it is a very refreshing drink with a rather mild taste, it's almost like water. Here's some numbers for the caffeine content: A regular cup of coffee contains about 100 mg of caffeine per cup, green coffee contains roughly 20 mg per cup. From my calculations, you can expect 400mg of trigonelline in 4 cups of espresso coffee, which would be 400mg of caffeine. If you use green coffee instead, it would be 80mg of caffeine. But as you mention, it might not be enough to dramatically increase plasma trigonelline. I don't test my plasma content of Trigonelline, I live in France and such tests are much more expensive here (My latest test was for homocysteine which cost me over a 100€. Oof.). I'm not aiming to specifically increase NAD, researchs shows that Trigonelline consumption is correlated to a bunch of health benefits, so I added it to my daily regiment through seeds, Daikon radish (More available than Sakurajima radish) and green coffee, then I cross my fingers and hope for the best ! Ahahah. I'm quite excited to see the results of your next experiment, and I'll very likely add Clover sprouts to my little Broccoli sprout farm, thanks a lot 😁

There are only very few supplement companies selling real trigonelline. Including my company, there are only 2 (iirc) Btw mike, would be glad to send you my supplement. No ads needed. I really appreciate your work, but I'm not a patreon jet. So.... ;)

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 My apologies, but my answer to you is getting removed by the automod. You can check the automoded replies to greenlight it manually. I guess it's such a big reply, it must trigger a few red flags 😅

Thanks @jackbuaer3828, yep, I saw that, too

Hi @stefan-cosmin.ionescu807, red clover. I'm not sure about white, but red clover has the highest trigonelline content/seed, even more than coffee. Systemically, though (beyond NAD), I'm not sure which is best, i.e. white vs red.

Very much appreciated! In parallel to your remark that sulforophane level in broccoli sprouts varies with germination time, perhaps this also holds true and is worth investigating in the case of trigonelline in clover sprouts.

Yep, now #11 There's a lot of people who didn't make the top of the list because they didn't text 3x, so I could fall further Playing the long game, though, collecting data, so I'm not worried!

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Ah OK. Its definitely hard to interpret without age.

Around 100 mg/d

Low dose nicotinic acid indeed increases NAD, but it may increase homocysteine. Adding TMG didn't help-in contrast, in an earlier video, I pitched the hypothesis that trigonelline could increase NAD and reduce homocysteine. We'll see if the NAD part is (finally) true, and if it is, I'll measure homocysteine in July.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 thank you

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Weird, so the body can't methylate niacin to make its own Trigonelline?

2 90-minute workouts, featuring compound movements, and NAD has always been low. Daily ~16h fast (or longer) every day, too Although there is published evidence that exercise can increase NAD, have you measured it? Coffee beans have a small amount less trigonelline that clover seeds, I covered that in an earlier video

nothing near substantial, and highly individual. Did you measure yourself? The pressure from aging is too high than exercise really incerasing it by 100%, say from 25 to 50. The whole (!!) machinery of energy production needs to be upregulated and supply of co-factors need to be ample as well. And still, it would decline during aging. 49 is not a critcal age. For healthy active eople the turning points are around 30-35, 55, and 63..65 y

@@monnoo8221 thanks ,I will get back to you when I'm 65

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 instant coffee is much higher. Then regular coffee. I only measure with exercises what my capacity is now compared to before 15-20 years ago. My workouts are normally 22 hours fasted. Short but very intense. Every second is at or close to 100% over last 4 weeks I've trained a total of 70min. I would add a sauna before training if I had one. I will try the seeds and see how it affects me.

I'm convinced NAD precursors won't work unless you address the imbalance between NAD+ to NADh, the salvage pathways, terts and parps. I don't have the resources to full map it all out, though. I may have to do what you are doing with patreon at some point.

Trigonelline may increase NAD (and melatonin), while reducing homocysteine: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wocYaApr-Yc.html

Yep, I agree about trigonelline being expensive. Potentially increased NAD, lower homocysteine, and higher melatonin (better sleep?): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wocYaApr-Yc.html

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 But if niacin or nicotinic acid just degrades into trigoneline, why bother taking it? As other viewers have mentioned, it seems to be more of a waste product than anything else.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 yeah, that damn hcys.... I know you cover quite some betaine through diet, but recent research showed some interesting results regarding the support of protein biosynthesis under high TMG... Which lets me conclude/ suspect that this also could lower methionine availability and such give the methylation cycle a refreshing kick , finally lowering Hcys... Do you have some experiments in planning regarding that?