Porsche 718 Boxster T | The Heated Debate 

Jack has really come into his own. Really speaks to Mark's ability to integrate Jack- you guys have a great program here!

Man I loved when Jack and Mark were arguing.. Sounded like a married couple. So funny. Great vid and love the content. Thx guys

Never stop bringing cost as a factor into these reviews. You guys are great, thanks

Mark and Jack have better communication skills than many married couples.

I love when mark is devil's advocate even when it means ignoring his own beliefs and feelings😂

I appreciate when y’all get Hans Zimmer to score one of your vids.

It's my 30th birthday. I now have come to realize that my days are numbered as I sit on the porcelain throne. But by God does this notification for a new Savagegeese video make it all the more better

Good to see you back on the public road. The reviews at the track don’t do it for me.

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how insanely skilled Savagegeese is at making his reviews. That was some NEXT LEVEL shit mate!

The Alfa 4C is north of $70k, so relatively the 718T is a screaming bargain. 300ps, clutch pedal, legit 170mph top speed; you’re getting a lot. And just look at it. It’s beautiful!

I’m with Jack. The older cabin is better. The new ones are plastered with screens and glass black.

Whenever I get on YT and see a new savagegeese video, I don't get any work done. This is the best channel. I'm pretty sure other car review channels just regurgitate what these guys say.

Here to watch a video about a car I cant afford...

Obviously Porsche makes good cars, It's just hella expensive.

Mark is right. There's a niche for everything, but that doesn't justify a bad value for most people.

This is what I love about these guys. I'm not here for Porsche, I'm here for the debate!

That interior is so refreshing after seeing all the crap being peddled these days by most car makers.

This as to be one of the best argumentation I've seen on youtube. This channel is so underrated still... it's crazy.

I currently own a pretty decently specked 718 base (after owning a 981). I recently had the chance to try out a GTS 4.0. Putting the sentimental part of the 6-cylinder howl aside, I came to the conclusion that I am actually really liking the 2.0 base as a package. The GTS would have been around 35.000 $ more compared to what I purchased the base 2.0 for. That is a substantial amount of money. Add to that taxes which are 3x of what I pay for my 2.0, an issuance which would cost me 30% more, higher maintenance costs and the fact that I average 32.7 mpg including using my car as a daily commuter and blasting up and down mountain passes in my free time. As an enthusiast and someone who could afford the GTS 4.0: Yes, the sound is awesome, revving it out is lots of fun and the responsiveness of the engine is amazing. But does it make up for the flawed gear ratios? For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? For all the extra costs that come attached to it? In my opinion: No The 4-cylinder engines have been talked down upon a lot, but I quite like what this car represents and it’s character. Light, nimble, fun.

Ferdinand Porsche, if he were alive, I think would choose this one. Philosophically, it is a true incarnation of the 356A that I had.

Excellent video, you guys are great! As an owner of the Boxster T, I can say that if anybody is debating whether to pull the trigger or not, to go ahead, they will not regret it. Have owned it since April, have put over 6K miles on it and have not regretted the purchase. Absolutely love the car and have been enjoying everything about it.

"I would choose this over a C8." "So would I". lol - love the channel, you guys. I just don't know how they can sell this over a 718 S or a GTS.

Too much money for not enough fun. I'm with Mark on this.

"It's not really Porsche's fault." I think that's accurate.

I love the Interstellar vibe of the cornfield B roll at the start of the drive segment. Car commercial grade. Savage Geese is the one channel where I always remember to max out playback quality at the start of every vid (now that that’s a f***ing thing).

Regarding pricing debate about "for 80k, might as well get a 911 or GTS 4.0", there's still a massive difference in the prices between the boxster/S/T and the 4.0s and 911s. It's sometimes double that price for a solid 911 in a comparable generation. IMO this car still exists as a lesser-priced version of a Porsche platform priced so much higher, and occupies a solid place in the market, especially in more economically inflated regions.

When I was younger, the numerical advantage was important, but now its not. I'd rather have the older 6 Cyl than a new 4 Cyl. Almost pulled the trigger on a 1st gen Cayman S a few times, but its hard to justify because there's not many tracks or mountain roads within a few hours of where i live.... 99% of mileage would be commuting on boring roads.

Y'all are the true heirs to Car Talk. Thanks for doing what you do.

After watching this channel for years, I must say this is one of the best videos from the channel. Excellent work guys. Really enjoyed the discussion since it represents the ongoing back and forth we all tend to have as enthusiasts when it comes to packaging, pricing, and performance.

I’ve only recently began watching this channel, and it has become my go to for car content. Absolutely love the format of the videos and both perspectives.

Man I love these guys. 2 well spoken gentlemen with good arguments. My brain rejoices listening to these guys talk cars. Love it

The production quality of this video is amazing! Gets better and better with every new video.

Excellent channel. Great relationship between Mark and Jack which makes this such a good channel to watch.

Really enjoy this back and forth disagreements. It shows cars carry so many different views and we get to see some of them.

Epic freaking intro. The editing, music, everything. Well done!

Love the discussion. Basically you guys preemptively addressed the points of many viewers but kept it civil and interesting. Keep it up!

In regards to fuel economy, I'm pretty sure Jason Cammisa had a great little video when the 718s got the flat fours. In real world testing, the Turbo 4 is much less economic compared to the outgoing NA 6, EPA-rated figures be damned!

I'm with Jack on the interior - it's simple and dated in a good way and thus is relatively future proof. I'm very very tempted to buy a 718 Spyder because of the fact that it is the perfect blend of 90's and early 2000's car design and 2020 refinement and engineering

The editing and shot selection is awesome

Great review! I had the pleasure of putting 500 miles on a 718 Boxter T over the weekend and was amazed at the build quality. It had 30,000 rental miles on it and was perfectly quiet with no squeaks or rattles! My next sports car will no doubt be a 718 GTS or Spyder

“Unless you’re Nick Murray and Porsche are not reliable.” 😂

That music had me expecting Superman to come flying over the cornfields

Epic beginning montage dude. Loved it!

Friggen love the conversation that comes from you guys when you disagree. Awesome job Jack and Mark keep up the awesome work!!

I’ve been lukewarm on the 4 cyl 718’s until the T. I’d still dearly love the 4.0, but I honestly think the T would be just as satisfying to own for me. They may have made some refinements to the noise since launch, since I think it sounds excellent (albeit not a patch on the old cars). It’s not cheap, but you can skip a lot of the pricy cosmetic options and it’s far cheaper than the GTS in the real world. Arguments about “what’s another 20k once you’re spending 80” just don’t land… it’s still a huge amount more.

I was considering the T this past spring but ended up finding an allocation and optioned the base with the Sport Chrono, Torque Vectoring and PASM. The only other options I added was Lane Change Assist and GT Silver. With a slight dealer discount it was just under $70k. I waited 20 years for this and wanted a driver's car and optioning the car this way saved about $10k and I got a driver's car that is everything the T is save the ridiculously expensive wheels and another 10MM lowered. I've put 2,500 miles on the car this summer almost all with the top down and it is total blast and IMO a great value (for a new Porsche) if optioned this way. Having researched this extensively, the T is not the sweet spot, the base is as outlined above or if I wanted to drop $30k more, the GTS with the 4.0L six cylinder.

I wasn't expecting this kind of music for the intro but I'm loving it anyway, definitely adding it to my playlist on Spotify.

I'm picking up a 986 Boxster this week and I'm so excited.

I love that you reviewed a 4 cylinder 718!! Been waiting a long time for this. Also love you guys dropping bombs on Nick Murray ahhaha

Maybe it’s just the mid life crisis talking, but I need this car.

Just wanted to say I love the channel please keep it up. Love the work.

Great to see how honest these guys were. And not sour that they weren't acknowledged by each other.

It's a really good bit expensive option in a class of vehicles that I have no interest in but its Savagegeese so I have to watch! 🔥 🔥 🔥

When it comes to this platform it's gts 4.0 or bust for me. All the other trims, don't have something that screams special for me at around 80 to 100k

An amazing, and honest review. You two nailed the exact decision tree all of us who can easily afford a Miata, but could do a Porsche on a stretch, are making. Also, your audio and video production production quality is broadcast level.

1:50 I understand what you are saying and agree with the sentiment, the 1990 Bonniville SSEi disagrees.

I just picked up a T! Its a beautiful car. I traded my 2022 s3 for it and while the tech was a downgrade, the driving feel cant wipe a smile off my face. The power is great. I can kick the rear end out whenever i want, and from 2-6k rpm this thin is legendary. Its the perfect daily driver because it can be tame. If you want a track car, get a gts #saveTheManuals

Great review. As my first step back on the Porsche ladder after a long absence, the 718 T ticks all the boxes. I'll track it and tour it and have a 6 cylinder car to look forward to afterwards when a change is needed. The price IS punchy, but all the standard sporty chassis bits, the retro interior packs, fabric door pulls and a few extra alcantara bits make it like a poor man's GT4... in a good way. For a relatively poor man like me, anyway. For no good reason, I'm a bit more excited about getting a T than a standard car. Or even a basic S. Porsche sees guys like me coming. I know.

I have to say I own a '17 Cayman S and simply love the car. I do not understand the noise comments from everyone. I find it very satisfying and a buddy of mine just got a GTS, the noise differential is nonexistent to me, we drove with the top up and down! Regardless of price, Porsche's are GREAT cars and I think the finest cars I've ever driven and I owned quite few. Wonderful content in your videos!

Great video. The passion and knowledge is so clear

In a fight between Mark and Jack, my money is on Jack.

Getns! Long time subscriber, big fan. Some of the best automotive content around. March of 2021 I was in this exact market, this exact price range. And I bought…. *drumroll*… the G29 BMW Z4 M40i. Because I, like the vast majority of shoppers here, am never going to track this car. What I wanted was a top down driving experience that delivers thrills when I want them. Which is largely getting to 62 (100km/h) as fast as possible on country roads, feeling that rush early in the rev range, etc etc. It also corners as well as anyone could want for an on-road experience, and with the excellent e-diff, let’s the rear end break loose just enough for fun. I’m an enthusiast, who fully understands that these cars aren’t going to see a track. If I’m going to at track, I’m buying a used Miata, and kitting it out properly. Just my real world $.02

Always appreciate the tech opinions of these guys!! 👋🏻

As a guy that currently owns several Porsches and loved and owned a Miata, I agree with Jack on this. His take is right on. I loved my Miata and plan to buy another soon. But if you can afford it there is nothing like Porsche.

“So do I” made my night

The main reason I got the 718 Boxster S (now 6 years old, but the exact same car is sold today) was, compared with the base 2.0, much more torque at a lower RPM (1700-up) and power anytime you want it. Disconnecting the sound symposer helped give the 4 a better sound in Sport mode - though as I understand all 718s now come with sport exhaust standard.

Thumbs up for the Snake Eater song! Cant get enough of the Porsche content. Keep up the good work!

I just was at Bilster Berg, it’s a small but good Racetrack in Germany, we drove a 981 GTS and a 4.0 GTS, it took a while before we caught the T, after my tires have been warm the T stayed all the time at the 4.0 backend. The T, in the almost same spec, is around 20.000€ cheaper than our 4.0 You have to experience it to appreciate it

What an amazing review of this car. Thank you Jack for not shying away from making fact-based good arguments against price. In my opinion, the price is totally justified. Nobody in the world delivers such a car for less, do they? The refinement, the engineering, the driving experience, the reliability, the way this car holds it's value, the exotic looks, the prestige of owning this brand - I am nothing but totally convinced this is a great and top of the line product that one could get for their money. People asked for a great car, and Porsche delivered. They can't sell something for 50k that should be 80k, as Mark wants it. That would be saying why Ferraris or Lambos are close to 300-400k, they should be 100ks. No, good products/things come at a price, and this is a totally fair price. Cheap products don't necessarily mean value products and expensive products don't necessarily mean lack of value, I wish every body understood that. While there are cheaper cars like Mazda Miata ND2 and Toyota Supra, they don't nearly have the same goods to offer as this car. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try to rate these cars unbiased on the areas of this Boxster T I've mentioned above. I am sure you will see other cars don't even give this Boxster T a run for it's money. No wonder why Mark agrees to pick this one up instead of a soulful V8 motor car, Corvette C8. If a meat lover chooses to grab a vegetarian meal, you know the vegetarian meal must be wickedly good!

I think something the 4cyl 718s have as an advantage is slightly better street usability over the previous 981 generation. despite the deadness at lower rpms, max torque is more easily accessible even with the longer gears. My 981 is always begging to be driven above 50mph, which isnt always legally ideal. That said I would never trade usable torque for the sound of the NA flat 6.

In 2013, I bought a CPO 991 911S (10,000 miles) for $92K (MSRP was $128K). My 911 has over 80,000 miles on it today and I may never sell it. This review explains both why I purchased that car and why I purchased the way I did. Nice review that encapsulates the whole Porsche debate that is reflected in the review and in the comments. As a note for the folks watching this video...consider a 991...it's a better car than the Boxster.

Apart from the awesome reviews yall make we love the agreement

I like that it’s usable street power combined with crazy handling. I can take that amazing chassis and suspension engineering and milk every last drop out of it and shift crazy and lay into that power and just tear around back roads faster than anything else in its price range.

“ reliable...unless you’re Nick Murray”. ROFLMAO. So true... Mark kept yammering about the price but your not buying a GTS 4.0 for 80k...end of discussion. Definitely 100k or more, if you want paint and other extras. GT4 and Spyder obviously even more. Porsches seem expensive until you start shopping and can’t find anything you like as much for the same money. Then your perspective changes pretty quickly. Jack was right on with the value proposition. Nothing twice the price is twice as good. Value is very nonlinear. Not uncommon to pay 50% more for something that is 10-20% better. That’s just how it works on almost everything. In the end, if you want it, you pay it. Never going the win the “ value” argument. Overall, nice, entertaining review.

What the T needed here was a N/A 3 liter 6. Something you could push hard all the time with the great T bits and bobs, and the classic sound.

Totally agree about the cabin. Having physical buttons is the luxury.

For that price, I would rather buy the new Lexus IS500 with the naturally aspirated 5.0 Liter V8, IF I COULD AFFORD IT!

this car at 60k is killer, 70-80? that's crazy

I think they key point of this debate was in the last 2 minutes. ‘Allocation’. In the UK, it is essentially impossible to buy a Spyder or a GT4 new. I have offered crazy money to order a Spyder and there is no amount I can pay to get one new. My local Porsche dealer (which is one of the largest in the UK) gets an allocation of TWO of each, per YEAR! I have a T on order which, all in, will cost me under £60k (UK) with a handsome bundle of desirable extras. However, most importantly, I will get it in March and that (semi-conductor issue permitting) is more or less guaranteed. If however, I order a GTS, I’m now being quoted March 2023 at the very earliest. That’s a minimum year and half wait! Yes, given the choice, of course I would have the GTS but not for that wait and especially not for the hike in cost. Spyder/GT4’s on the second hand market are running at £15-20k over list for a 2 year old car over here. Even the T & GTS’s are selling over list if you can even find one as there are very few for sale. It’s a crazy world right now. There has never been a batter time to be trading in a used prestige car. Given that T is literally a GTS but with a smaller engine with 90% of the driving pleasure, a new T is looking like an absolute bargain right now. I’d pay $78k (US) for that. That is my humble opinion anyway! Great vid, thank you.

Agree, look at a classic 356 and they were very simple yet classy feeling interiors.

I currently have a 718 Cayman T, and I had the base model before (between leases). I had this whole debate in my head too, going for a GTS 4.0 was too much of a stretch for me and at that point I felt why don't I just get a base 911 (which has way better lease rates relative to MSRP vs 718 models). But then it didn't have a manual and was still more than I could afford, also not as precise or strictly engaging. I do like this 718 T a lot and agree with Jack's final thoughts. But I think for road use and little or no track time, the base model is best for the money (of the 718 lineup). I appreciate the tightening up of everything with the T vs base trim but you really don't need any of it for the road, you save like 10-15k, get a more comfortable daily driver in the process that's still got 90% of the T's engagement.

I agree with Mark on this one, at least for the US use case. I do like the minimalist interior though. Mark, you could have argued the depreciation as well. If you can spend $80k, chances are you can afford another $20k for a GTS 4.0. The GTS 4.0 will depreciate less, and will be easier to sell later as well. So, as long as you can put the money down, cost of ownership on the GTS 4.0 will probably be less than the Boxter T. Only reason I would buy this over an Evora GT would be if I absolutely needed to have a drop top.

The opening sounded like a Transformers score. Loved it

Interesting comparison to the ND2 Miata. Personally I would have loved a 718 Porsche, but my budget won't stretch like that. So I "settled" for a 124 Spider, with a few handling mods. I think I haven't lost that much.

Solution: Buy a CPO 981s+ with theoretically better warranty, engaging flat 6 and arguably better looks 🤷‍♂️

The base cayman 718 is a also a remarkable vehicle.

mad respect for metal gear soundtrack on the infotainment display :D

thank you guys

i’m with jack on this one. the level of engineering and driver’s enjoyablilty you can get out of this car cannot be beat for the price. obviously i still can’t afford anything close to this price lol

I'm with Mark on this. For fun engaging daily driving, despite how much "better" the 718 is, I'll take the Miata and pocket the savings and maybe do a few upgrades and still have a sizeable amount of $ pocketed.Considering vast majority of drivers won't or can even drive up to 1/2 the 718's capabilities, buying it is more a financial flex than buying it cause it's a better fun car than the Miata.

this is one of the best episodes

Videos are awesome as always but the music was freaking epic! I kept waiting for the Avengers to show up!

The question of whether or not the experience is 2-3x better is a silly one. The better question is whether or not it’s worth a $40k delta for the 15-20% bump in dynamics that gets you near perfection, along with a performance floor that’s higher than a less expensive vehicle’s ceiling.

I would take the 80K and try to get a second hand Boxster S w/ 6 speed and 6 cyl, and probably still have some money left over. It's not as "special" as the T but 6 > 4

Great review! I think when you two compare and contrast what you guys like and dislike about a car, it creates a full scope of the car and review. Brings a great element to each video!

Great review and debate. My girlfriend and I bought a base 2017 718 Boxster on CPO , fairly loaded launch edition car with low miles, for $50k. We love the luggage space for road trips around western NC and north GA. It makes us smile every time we drive it, and it has all the performance we need. I previously had a 987.2 Cayman and yes the flat 6 sound is missing but we like the character of the turbo 4. At $50k we feel it was more than worth it. But the price of a new one is just too much, and I think the value proposition is not there even for rich people to buy or lease them new. Hence the small number you can usually find available as CPO at any given time. If I spec a base Boxster out today like my 2017, it is $76k. If I could spend 76, then I would mow some yards or sell some plasma and step up to a GTS 4.0.

I'm very curious as to how sports cars in the US market will react to a successful Lotus Emira launch. That price point is astounding for a Lotus.

Well, it is a space that does look pretty aged, so you are mostly right.

Listening to that start off several times on the video it definitely sounded like my old 914-4 or bug. Maybe a 356. That being said i spoke with an owner who added software and a down pipe for $2500 and it totally enhanced the experience. Said it would keep up with a C8.

Really considering purchasing one of these, can't wait to hear your thoughts.