yeah, i finally got my cnc mill yesterday, and did my first wood and alu testparts and its really cool to finally be able to replicate some of your (or others) projects
What did you get? I'd love a mill for the same reasons but I think I prefer the CNC route as I run a small production operation and I want more time with my hands free!
Some more great work there again, well done. From experience I know that with some projects a large amount of time is spent in the design work. Looks like you spent a lot of time on the design work here, and the mechanism turned out great and functions well. Thanks for sharing.
Nice bit of work, especially reusing the aluminium from the unfortunate dust collector. Regarding the possibly slightly sloppy bearing fit you mentioned: I've heard that for lighter duty loads you can rough up/disturb the inside of the bore the bearing is to fit into with a punch, this has the effect of reducing the diameter, and allowing a bearing to fit more snugly. And a wooden handle on the end of the arm would really make the whole thing pop, while also lengthening it for more torque. Though that would increase the amount you need to pull to work the drawbar...
There are hydraulic cylinders used in car repair. Small one is 50mm high, and with hand pump generates pressure measured in tons. Travel is around 10mm. I am planning to use one o these as power component, with foot operated pump for hands free operation.
@@xyzspec82 Nope, this is not hydraulic jack used to lift car. This is small tool used to push bent parts. Travel is very limited, but the whole tool is only 50mm.
Given there's such a short travel required to release the grip on tooling, would a simple cam on a lever be feasible? Regardless, it's another great bit of home machining there.
Good call on recycling the aluminium from the old project - I am considering buying a furnace similar to that unit you bought, simply to be able to make aluminium bar stock to feed the mill and the lathe, the price of aluminium billets is eye watering, and old mag rims are not to expensive or hard to get if you keep an ear to the ground!
just saw this so a late response, but I cast a fair bit of stuff from alloy wheels, most of them are A357, and after casting they are really gummy to machine, if you heat treat at 150C for 2 or 3 hours, followed by a water quench, it machines really nicely.
The Emco PC55/F1 cnc mill has a really elegant example of a manual drawbar release for their BT30 spindle. Grabcad has a really accurate model. They use an excentric cam to create the mechanical advantage. I've been planning to reproduce this component for my build as the orginal spindle is extremely hard to find.
The bigest drawback of your solution is the fact that all that release force you need to apply for a tool change is applied to your precios AC bearing in the spindle. Pinch type release mechanism is the one to use. Anyway very good and informative video. Thanks!
Thank you very much for your great work with inspiration and motivation. You could choose a so called "knee lever" design to realize a sufficient translation ratio with fewer parts.
Come on Artisan. Surely with the skills you currently have, making a power hacksaw, even a small one that uses standard blades, should be a walk in the park!
Cool build. The primary lever is essentially a cam and could be simplified into an arm with an eccentric of the same length as the pusher bolt/stud or a cam with limit switches if you’re inclined to automate it. I’ve been thinking about small CNC tool changers lately and this was right in line with that kind of project.
Yeah sure, but this way takeaway gives a bit of adjustment. Taking into account the human side of me making it and it not being 100 percent to the drawing :)
Gday, overall it works quite well and it’ll be interesting to see how it holds up in heavier cuts in steel, great job as always mate and thanks for sharing, cheers
Using Belleville washers in opposed directions makes the spring softer, if you stack them the same direction (nested) makes for a much stiffer spring with the bonus that you don't need as many..
I really like your videos, and they have inspired me to make things again. Thank you! I got to tell you though... you're killing me - watching you saw all of your metals by hand. Get a chinese 4x6 bandsaw, mate. Then you'll have all kinds of new project videos modifying it!!
Very impressive sir .. I am new to machining and have learned a lot from you.. please continue to post videos … so far I have learned to make a fly cutter watching your video , a mill vice speed wheel , and I have gained some knowledge as well from watching your videos . Thanks again .
It’s not a permanent solution to the issue, nor is it a complete failure. It’s just another turn on the road to the final, let’s say “situation” 🤔 🤷🏼♂️ I think it works 🙌🏻 Can’t wait to see the next version you consider, and the next project!
There is only one issue I can see using the Belleville Washers and that is , If you don't install a tool into the collet it will over compress it and most likely bend it. I would strongly recommend you add some sort of lock in the down position for the handle just in case you don't have a tool to hand or drop it? You can then lock it open and grab or adjust the tool you are using. Think Hand brake handle from a car type of lock. The Morse taper is a lot shallower than a BT style taper or any of the standard dedicated milling tapers. It really is only made for driving rotationally and very little side load. There is also the added issue of the diameter differences of the tooling. Belleville Washers give a lot of force differential over a small amount of travel. Good for precision bad for any variance. For a mill with that type of clamping taper a wound spring would be more in order as it would have a smaller change in force over a longer distance of travel. A decent Valve spring ot of an engine would be ideal. Belleville Washers are used in machine tools and will hang in there for years but those are BT , CAT or HSK tapers and work to a very fine tolerance height wise for the pull studs. Regardless you have made it work and it has solved your problem. So nothing wrong with that. Cheer's
yeah, that is one this I saw mentioned in another video, not to have nothing in the collet. For what its worth, ive seen people use these belleville spring set ups in many other morse taper mills without issue. If I run into any, I will have to post an update about it. cheers
Hoi nice work a bit heavy for the job but it works , to get more clamping power the springwassers should be two on two or even 3 by 3 stacked that gives double spring strengt, stacking more one by one gives a slightly softer spring. 6 (9) washers will be sufficient for the travel and gives you a lot of springforce. The stack you use wil give slipping destroying the tools and spindle, try the spring with fasting the drawbar using the normal effort, and you will see how weak your spring realy is. succes Jos
Drawbars in large CNC mills use this sort of arrangement to hold tools. BT30, BT40, CAT40, etc all use the Belleville washer arrangement to retain tools and release them quickly. It is a simple system that can easily withstand heavy cutting forces.
seeing your design, i see how i'd make one. a fair deal different, maybe if you do a second, some day, you'll ask for suggestions. it seems you're not satisfied with it, maybe... a small air cylinder, longer, levered, it'd take about the same amount of air, but over a longer time, so your compressor might handle it. perhaps a foot lever operated motorcycle brake cylinder for hydraulic operation, it'd take almost no changes to the current set up.
I love seeing the upgrades u come up with and more times than not just like all of us money is a main factor ....can I suggest u start a members page or a patreon account to help with projects I think alot of people would donate
Since this double lever requires not that much power, perhaps it could be driven by a motor or some (weak) hydraulic system. Then you could use a foot switch.
That is an amazing amount of planning and work. I love watching the thought process of development. Here is some thing to think about; Couldn't you use a small arbor press bolted to the top for simplicity?
My friend, you really need to budget for a bandsaw. A little 5 X 6 horizontal/vertical bandsaw is worth it’s weight in gold, is relatively inexpensive, and is the most useful tool in my shop after the mill and lathe.
Does the pin that connects the levers and puts downward pressure on the drawbar rotate? I ask because if it doesn't turn, you could put a grub screw in the centre of the pin lined up with the drawbar to make fine adjustments to the downward pressure. Even though It sucks it took so long, I do appreciate you mentioned how long it took, as many makers make a task look easy and quick when it is far from reality.
Amazing how little travel there is on the drawbar itself. I think parts from this project could be useful for someone with an air cylinder with either too little power and or to much travel. I picture a cylinder laying down horizontal vs vertical and pushing on a backwards L with the vertical part of L super long to accommodate a longer travel air cylinder which seems to be more common then short fat cylinders. The cylinder I have in mind came from a junk yard. I'm sure a 2 stage lever could also be used.
Well go make it and post a video! This is a “do it” channel, not a “picture it” dreamers channel. You probably don’t even have a mill, you just ‘picture it’ in your car port.
@@SpatialGuy77 Ideas are great, especially when shared with others. I am a doer and had a similar thought, but appreciate the advantage of hearing or seeing the designs of the doers and dreams, both, before making the same mistakes as others or not realizing there is a different possible method before actually putting work into a project. If the guy does not own a mill, does that automatically somehow mean that his idea is worthless and would not work? Maybe he has a mill at work or has built similar levers and systems where that knowledge gave him an idea for this power drawbar video. Sure, I'm all for people actually building something, but not everyone wants to make videos of what they do. I only post videos of a fraction of what I work on and I am no youtuber and sometimes don't stop to even take pictures if I'm trying to just get a job done. My videos are just to share with people I know and then as people watched and subscribed, I posted more. It takes all kinds to make up the world.......even those who just leave condescending comments to other people's constructive comments.
What force are your washers rated at? The way you have them stacked, you aren't increasing the force, so you are only getting the force of 1 washer pulling on the drawbar. Stacking like you did only increases the distance they can compress. You would need to nest them the same direction (not flipping every other) to increase force.
Here in the States we use a Butterfly style impact guns that is mounted in a frame on push springs on each side that a lever is used to pull down the entire frame unit to make contact with the draw bar nut..it will have a lever mechanism to choose between tighten / loosening then just let go of the lever to allow the unit to spring up on captive rods the push springs are on etc..the Butterfly impact gun is very compact and rather weak with nearly no real use besides this use..it uses a Butterfly or dead mans lever on the side to operate it etc..
butterfly impacts were supposed to be good for large quantities of small fasteners, such as oil and transmission pan bolts or assembling sheet metal parts, which would have been a good use...........so a little more than "nearly" no real use. I do agree it seems like a good use on a drawbar and cordless tools are better than using a butterfly impact.
The problem with this design is that the load is not exactly axial to the drawbar which reduces the life of the ball bearings over prolonged use. The movement of the pivoting joints are radial and not axial at the point of contact.
I was actually thinking of the same thing i was planning on using an electric linear actuator because im not ready to add a permanent air compressor to my shop
stacking the spring washer alternating them, increases the travel but not the force. stacking them all in the same direction (nesting) increases the force but keeps the travel small. Just thought to clarify as you mention increasing the force but show alternating washers.
I’ve trimmed down a mt3 collet to account for this same hangout. However the mt collet I used didn’t have enough depth to allow full engagement for my 3/4 tts type collet. Not a lot of free depth in the mt3 taper to give full insertion of these tts style holders. Whilst I haven’t measured the depth of the mt3 bore in the spindle of my sx2 Sieg seems they could have bored the mt3 taper a little deeper in the spindle
Nicely done, nearly there just needs some fine tuning. I thought Sieg SX2.7s came with a captive drawbar just like the SX3 I have, it's the cylinder that screws on top which the drawbar head pushes against. I've seen Edward's design but wasn't confident of getting the correct preload on the Belville washers.
cheers, 2.7l comes with that cap on the top which isnt a captive drawbar in the same vein as the precision matthews mills are. I tried to use that as a captive drawbar and it ended up pushing the quill down, even with it locked. Edwards design was a bugger to get working correct, definitely not worth the hassle, but I only realized that hours into this project :)
@@artisanmakes I use the a hollow tube as a lever to really tighten the quill lock. If it's slipping even with that then best option is to tappy tap. I've been thinking about rebuilding the quill lock similar to what Stefan Gotteswinter did for his Optimum mill, one for this summer perhaps when I can get to the shed more. Perhaps a quill stop and lock combo would be even better.
what about a where the force comes from an offset... like vise grips... or cams... I've seen those used in sheet metal breaks and the like for shaping metal... just an idea... fun times!
Powerless drawbar. Hmmm, new thought. What did you mean at 9:17 - 9:30? Has the large extra mass above the mill affected the stability or more likely, the vibrations?
I never used this system. In Germany, we used to use self locking tapered heads which come off by giving them a sideways whack with a piece of wood or rubber hammer.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but this type of fast tool changing is a "bicycle invention". There is a much more effective and cheaper way to do this by pneumatic or hydraulic. Pneumatic is definitely better solution. It will be very easy to operate by this tool (for example use feet to lock/unlock tool). Anyway you have lathe machine, and can to make your own pneumatic cylinder. Try to search VotyanCGI channel. He make his own cylinder by using a lathe. Mainly, my opinion based onnyour time which you spend on this project. 7 months is a REALY a lot.
Like I said in the video, I can't really recommend this type of set up to anyone. I was determined to see it through but I was happy that I got it working
@@artisanmakes thank you for your reply. By the way, do you make upgrade of your lathe machine and milling machine? Becsuse i work with both, and i can to guarantee, if you make all needed upgrades, you will get 5 times more faster and effective work.
Hello, I love your video and I watching them for a long time. Btw I'm curious, what is your accent ? It seems a bit australian to my french ears but I don't think you are coming from here.
what did you use to clean the cosmoline off the sieg machines when first arrived and what do you use after that to keep machine from rusting i would love a video on maintenance on both the mill and lathe
@@theancientones3755 any oil at the very least, something like LPS2 works better as it actively prevents rusting. Lanolin is better for longer term storage, almost as good as cosmoline but easier to wipe off.
Kerosine or WD40 to take the cosmoline off and i use a product called lanotec to stop rusting but i have seen all sorts of stuff used, even motor oil will do in a pinch .
Sehr geehrter Herr Redacted, Vielen Dank für Ihre Rückmeldung. Der Umbausatz ist sofort lieferbar. Die Lieferzeit nach Österreich beträgt 2-4 Werktage. Wenn Sie den Umbausatz bestellen möchten, können Sie mir gerne kurz per Email Bescheid geben. Wir lassen Ihnen dann eine Auftragsbestätigung zukommen. Auf dieser sind die Kontodaten hinterlegt. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards Mr. Siegers vom paulimot-Support
I got an idea for your next project. A power hacksaw! I'm amazed at how much hand sawing you do, I'd go insane. I had to hand cut a 2" dia piece of A26 solid bar a few weeks ago and my arms were dead 😥
might be the way to go, honest I was expecting more force to be needed to release the drawbar, although my figures were coming from calculations done with R8 collets
@@artisanmakes yes reading lots of info about the force needed on the drawbar to prevent pullout is overwhelming. What I haven’t seen is a comparison of the force required on a mt3 spindle vs r8. Mt3 with the gentler taper maybe provides a slower slope and does need as much pull force to secure the collet. One for the mathematicians
Is it a problem to leave the spindle empty? I can imagine that it might be possible to crush the collet? (though it might well close down the slots while still in the elastic area, making this not a concern) One advantage of a pneumatic design is that it is can be set to "pinch" the spindle, so that it pulls up on the top-hat and down on the bar. I did this with a specially made cylinder that has a small amount of vertical float in the mounting. It's been pretty reliable for about 12 years. (It was also apparently filmed with a potato back then so I won't give a link) One way to make up for an inadequate compressor is to use a tandem cylinder design. I think that one of the ones you showed was a stack of three. I eventually went that route with mine, making a double-stack cylinder. This video shows the design and assembly, but none of the manufacture: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mZWQvq-X7DQ.html
G'day Andy. Good point. Can you explain your comment "...pinch the spindle...down on the bar..." I just can't picture it. Thanks in advance. Michael 🇦🇺
"my air compressor really isn't up to the job" bro that makes no sense. all it depends on is the diameter of the cylinder. if your compressor does 100 psi and the cylinder is 2 inches in diameter, that's 314 lbs of force. if it's 4 inches in diameter that's 1257lbs - some cars don't weigh that much. and with only the inch or so of travel you need, even if you have a tiny ass compressor tank it still works.
@@TheTateyo have you seen him using an airbrush? anyway those still do ~60 psi so again, would still work with an appropriately sized piston. (assuming the compressor had a tank, though a small one wouldn't be any harder or costlier to make than this hellish contraption).
