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Thank you for sharing Rob. I want the best for you and your family. PSL54 is very nice. I have Molot Vepr 7.62x54r Beast. Do you know what parts can be used on different rifles? Example is SVD, PSL54, Zastava M91 and Vepr AK54.
Love that you are sharing your viewpoint on this. I personally have not shot this rifle, but as the russian Tiger/SVDs are not an option anymore in Europe, it is nice to know that these aren't so bad.
I sure would want to be with you when this shit has the fan! I would feed you and I have prepared properly in case anything happens in Los Angeles California! I was borne in Missouri but my parents moved to Pennsylvania for 2 years then to California in 1970 been here since due to dads work. He’s still working at 84 as a plant engineer! In the food industry! So he knows the value of food and beer a hunter till he couldn’t walk to hunt anymore! Thank you for your video brother! We’re polish and White Russian on his side and moms side Russia, baltics,, Ukraine, and England. So we probably would get along!
👏BRAVO Rob! It's undeniable that you're getting the results that I couldn't with mine. It may be worthwhile for us to get together and do a post-mortem on what we could have experienced. I've actually owned three PSLs in my lifetime, and all of mine performed poorly, and quite frankly after spending a year + and lots of ammo on my example, I have it way more time than many other firearms that we work with on our show, I was ready to get rid of it for an SVD. Here are a few more datapoints for your viewers to consider: - The one used in our video was a 1977 former mil (I suspect Cugir re-built it into a civ receiver to export). Barrel appeared to be in decent shape, but I never used a borescope on it. - The LPS-1 optic appeared to be a mismatched milsurp, but in functional shape. - I used my 174gr handholds. FLS with 43.5gr varget behind it. Usually with the Mosin PU and SVD i push 1.5MOA. With the PSL it push 1.6-1.7 MOA if i can keep the bore cold. - We do not allow the spotter to correct on our course unless the shooter specifically asks. I think this contributed to death spiraling when my rifle's heat kicked in. - I shot the M76 the same day, and separately the Mosin PU and SVD on different courses of fire. All of those three far out-performed the PSL. The M76 speedway needs to be edited out, should be done some time this year. - I've actually seen an increase in accuracy with my OSS can on some bolt actions like my AI AE. Not saying that is the reason for your performance, but I wonder if the can could have dampened the harmonics at all? Have you documented it with the OEM flash hider? - I could have missed the first shot at 250, but I usually don't miss 1.5 targets off at that short distance with a 4x. I'm positive that we shot maybe a mag before the course started to double check that the system was working, so it was not entirely cold. - I realized that i forgot to talk about the malfunctioning mags at the end. Those were loaners from a different PSL. I heard that Cugir factory fits mags to these rifles but I couldn't find any actual proof of that, perhaps you can? Once again, really appreciate your candid video. I'd love to host you on a post-mortem on our channel or yours, but there may be some more we could learn about these things. I don't think that it would make me want to buy a forth PSL to experiment with (I'll leave the PSL enjoying to you), but it's always interesting to learn more about a significant GWOT era workhorse. Cheers and phenomenal job again! -Henry p.s. Dude you've got to stop calling it a war, I love you too much.
This would be great, I think this is what everybody would love to see. I really wonder if this really boils down to the can? Either way, you guys really should do a postmortem together. It would be awesome to see two of my favorite channels figure this out.
*That was my first impression when I saw that guy fuckingitup, but I know he's a good shooter, and gave him the benefit of doubt, until just now watching Robski.*
@spoonerman I stopped believing that myth in 2008 after getting a Yugo M70 underfolder. I used surplus Yugo M67 ammo. Made a single hole at 60 meters while standing. I used paracord on the stock for a cheekweld.
Not the first report of these rifles having issue or being a turd unfortunately. I have seen a SCAR 20 that was a turd out of the box but statistically this rifle is known to have examples of being junk. But there are examples like this where they function completely normal. Both shooter are very competent shooters also and would like to see them exchange rifles.
I really like how Rob is so calm and controlled under the clock. No rushing, didn't hurry mag changes, and took his time on each shot. Great guy to learn from.
@@fujimi715he was a sniper, but I believe it was on the m40 or M24 platform. Henry wasn’t a sniper when he was in the Marine Corps, but we do regularly see him clear the course with no misses, and go out to 1100 yards, on C zone targets he def is no slouch.
I can't stand when you see some of the guntubers get up to the firing line and immediately just start blasting without taking a second to settle in and get a good shot. I'm not saying they should take forever to shoot, but the time they get to the firing line to the moment they shoot is extremely short. It's like they are antsy or something. I see Forgotten Weapons do it a lot. The moment they aim in, they start shooting. It's obnoxious to see.
@@SouthernFamilyandFirearms The newer wave of Century PSL imports within the last couple years is a significant improvement in overall quality compared to the older Century PSLs that had sketchy QC and build quality. Would also be interested to know what ammunition 9 Hole used for their speedway run given the very wide variety of 7.62x54R loads available and the PSL’s performance being heavily ammo dependent and not always preferring what you’d expect.
I've heard the PSLs that Century rebuilt from parts kits themselves were very iffy in terms of proper parts fit. That series is also where the short-barreled "paratrooper" PSLs came from. Those are a Century invention afaik. I've had the opportunity to examine one of the latter, and fit & finish were very rough compared with mine, which is from the most recent production series out of Cugir. One thing I noticed about mine when I shot it was that the rail clamp for the NPZ PSO 4x scope it shipped with seemed to be tight when I adjusted and mounted it before the shoot, but worked loose just the slightest bit during shooting. I ended up turning the adjustment not on the clamp another notch to increase the tension, and the issue shouldn't reappear. It's possible something similar happened to the 9HR rifle.
Hey, Dude I don't no if anyone told you thanks for your service and your channel, with all the crap going on you seem to be a straight up guy and a patriotic American as a 21 year Vet I appreciate you and your content, I've learned a lot about AK'z from you keep up the fine work HooYa 👍
Maybe 9 Hole had a weird optic, not sufficiently sighted, some kind of problem with his weapon? You nailed it with your PSL. See if he will send you his weapon to work with.
I really appreciate the way you disagreed, but kept everything respectful and professional. Thank you for being a great example to other shooters and YouToobers.
The thing is, Henry is very capable marksman and has been pretty consistent with the results he achieves. Given that fact, I have to assume there is something wrong with his rifles. It could be the age of the rifles. I have heard other people talk about how much better rifle barrels are today than they were 50 years ago. Specifically, that the heat shift is much less pronounced with modern metallurgy than it was in the past. It would be really cool if you could send them a rifle that they could use to re-test. I don't doubt the results you are used to, but I also don't doubt the results that Henry had with his rifles. I.E. there has to be something significantly different about the rifles.
I've also heard that the QC at Cugir isn't always at best and it's not uncommon to for some PSL barrels to have a terrible crowning job and getting the barrel recut and crowned can vastly improve the accuracy.
@dangvorbei5304 It don't remember what kind of ammo he was shooting, I know I've shot some ammo my PSL absolutely hated and couldn't get better than 4 moa, then switch up to something different and be able to do 1.5-2 moa at 500 yards
I'd love to see a collaboration where Rob travels to the 9 Hole reviews range and shoots their rifle and then let them shoot his. Would be interesting to see if they do better with his and Rob does worse with theirs. My theory is that Rob's PSL is better than theirs.
Now this is how you disagree, being civil and respectful at the same time. Just doing your own run with the rifle also. Excellent video Rob! I hope Henry and Josh respond in kind. I would love to see you three together on a video
No I'm sure, but he's definitely got a lot of time behind the glass . I'm thinking there was something slightly loose for something to go that goofy . But to go directly to the rifle was a little cheesy . @@jasonmarquand
@@johnjelinek-g7bI think he hits it on the head with the newer production of his rifle. I think it's put together a bit tighter and with better barrels. Century has had it's reputation run through the ringer for years and have surprisingly started producing some decent imports again.
My brother has an earlier production PSL. His secret was adding a barrel harmonic band just in front of the gas block and he only uses 174grain. Great video and thanks for doing it.
I've learned that there are always 3 factors to consider outside of the weather. #1 quality of the ammo, #2 quality of the rifle, and #3 quality of the shooter. Great content as always!!!!
I purchased my PSL in the mid 80's from Century Arms. I was frustrated for a while with it. I was getting 4-5 MOA with 170-180 gr bullets. I tried every brand I could find with the same results. Then, just for kicks, I tried the Wolf 148gr FMJ. Holy Shit! 1 MOA ! MY rifle loves the light bullets. I started handloading to find a hunting bullet. I couldn't find any light .311 hunting bullets. I tried a few .308 bullets and that was a disaster. Then out of nowhere, I had a crazy thought. Wolf was making a 762X39 with a 154gr soft point boat tail. I was getting great results with that ammo in my AK's for deer and hog hunting. So, I pulled those bullets and loaded them in the 762X54 for my PSL. WOW! that was the miracle I was looking for in a hunting bullet. 1 1/2 MOA all day, with a few 1 MOA groups thrown in to keep me exited. That is a great hunting bullet with good accuracy. The bad news is, you cant find that Wolf 154gr SP BT ammo anymore. And my on hand 154gr ammo is slowly dwindling.
I don't tell many people this secret... Google has a search alert. Put together a search that has something like this: "For sale" OR WTS Wolf 148gr FMJ ^^ The whole line as it is. Set it to as it happens, and all results. You'll find some.
9 hole basis the entire weapon system off of 1 test subject. Now they claim that is an all factory PSL but unless it's a pre 1990s import, it was built off of a parts kit using the 7 US compliant parts for 922(r). Therefore who ever built that singular PSL is responsible for it's inaccuracy. I'm not saying that the builder built all guns that way but in my experience when ever you have a rifle that experiences that much drift due to heat means that the action and barrel were not mated correctly or inferior steel components were used. Great video my friend!!!!
I still have 3 PSLs. I have built, modded and tuned them to varying degrees and made a hobby out of accurizing them (some years ago). If you find ammo they like they can be great shooters. I had no trouble shooting solid groups out to 500 yards and could get around MOA with them. Not sure why 9 Hole struggled so much. Nice shooting, as always, Rob. *Edit - I always had good results with the S&B 174gr rounds as well.
Could it be that these are just that much individuals and some rifles just happen to perform much better and Romania had more Mondays than most western countries? I had Cugir made original PSL54 and I never managed to get it group well. Not even with S&B 174gr match. There often was about 1.5MOA 3 shot groups, but 5 shot groups always spread to 3MOA or worse.
Did you ever chop one of the barrels? I always thought that would be amazing. I have a vepr ( in 54r) and a psl but always wanted another and was thinking about a shorter build.
Nope. Never chopped the barrel on one. I modded one with SVD furniture where I was able to float the barrel. Changed the muzzle break , 10x scope with centered mount, set screw to reduce gas pressure. Solid shooter.@@jonnash5901
Could be. could be a slight tuning issue to. Could have been a hand guard that was not secured and moved on the barrel and messed with the marmonics Have to get the know the individual rifle@@jpenna1976
I'm always in rememberance that the PSL is not a sniper rifle it's a dmr. It performed wonderfully in it's role. It's a fine rifle. Great rebuttal Rob!!!
Great work an example. I have a Mosin M39 and two T53's. The 54r's is a nice round for hunting around my way. I loaded up on 39 & 54r years ago. Empressed with your work and no disparagement to Henrey and 9 hole, I love their work too. Semper Fi
Another small thing to consider, some rifles love to have suppressors on them, the weight on the end of the barrel can increase the accuracy quite a bit on some rifles. This affect can be seen often on Johnnys Reloading Bench channel
If you will look closer in the video, I run this rifle with 2 totally different cans on different occasions. Yes, they both are from OSS (huxwrox) but old one is almost 20oz vs new Flow is only 11.8oz...huge changes in weight and rifle is still consistent with the performance.
@@AkOperatorsUnion Thanks for the reply Rob! I think ive actually heard you mention Johnnys Reloading Bench before. He had one video where he had made a bunch of different muzzle weights for testing and if I recall correctly there was a wide range on the rifle he used where it liked the heavier weights. As in once the weight got heavy enough, it liked them all after that weight, even when getting heavier and heavier (too a point). Maybe it is similar with the PSL? Where as long as there is enough weight on it, it likes it. Could be a neat thing to test out!
Congratulations on the deer, I've always wanted to take my PSL hunting. I think the age of Henry's rifle is the issue, in one of their videos he even points put that its marked 1974 (or somewhere around there) it would make sence that new production guns preform better then former military guns chopped up and put on a civilian reciver.
Im glad youtube tossed me this video! I watched 9 Holes Speedway PSL run the other day and thought something must be off with the gun. My SKS would literally outshoot the PSL they featured on that course lol
They just needed Robski behind the glass lol. More scope footage please! That was awesome to see how you basically kept the same aim point until you were really reaching out to the further targets. Great video as always.
Russian military scopes tend to have a range dial on top so you set it and aim center mass. The additional chevrons are for beyond 1000m. As opposed to western scopes which tend to have either multiple aiming points for ranges, or a mil/moa post for holds
Keeping it real, man! Most times I say "Operator error" when someone blames the rifle. (P.S. My AK Operators Union 47-74 Polish Radom Factory Underfolder is running like a dream! Thank you for finding that stash!)
That's much more in line with my limited experience circa 2006- solid 1.5" rifle with light ball and really didn't see the kind of heat shift they experienced. There WERE a lot of people talking about exactly that though. Most seemed to settle on cutting the barrel to 18or20" to minimize it.
there're still some possible reasons to be considered, the AKOU psl has a kns piston and a supressor that might offer some improvement in performance. I don't have a psl but I do have an sar1 from cugir, more overgassed than an ak should be, I put a kns piston on and the group became a little tighter after the gas is adjusted and I can be more consistent at 500yd even when I'm not using magnifications. The other thing is when Henry was doing it under the clock he might just rushed a little and that's why he made a mistake and missed the 250yd target. He did hit 800yds with a psl in his practical accuracy video. Also the qc might be a problem and Henry just got a bad one
@@ryth-2401 if it were true all those guys would be using them. If it made their group .001 smaller you would see suppressors on every competition rifle.
@@albundy7459 that's why I say it depends, if the barrel with a supressor is too long for the round it's using then adding a suppressor increase the barrel harmonic and it will be more inaccurate, but if that's not the case then it's fine. I have no experience with supressed psl so idk how it will perform
Excellent! A straightforward and yet courteous rebuttal! And the guys at 9hole reviews gave an outstanding reply. Robski you are the ambassador of AK pattern rifles and nobody does it better. Congrats on your daughters quarry, too. Happy Thanksgiving and God bless and keep you and your family!
Maybe that KNS piston is making a really big difference with the barrel whip? Also, do OSS/HUX suppressors reduce felt recoil at all? Perhaps between the two additions the gun is "settling" more consistently. Just an idea, Great video Rob.
@@MrHobgoblin1396 no suppressors aren't going to help because once u put a suppressor on a rifle u have to re zeroe it because the point of aim shits. There's something wrong with Henry psl
@@MrHobgoblin1396 Yes, but Henry said in that last video about his troubled PSL (same weapon with the same modifications from those 2 videos from 8-9 months ago) that this was "match grade" PSL...which is is not true for his mods: 2stage-trigger, KSN gas/piston adjustment... and the 174gr ammo.
Clearly time to apply some QC principles. Swap rifles, run it again, if the results swap with the rifles, then careful evaluation of each rifle side by side. I'm sure I am not the only one that wants solid data to understand why two solid and respected channels have such divergent results.
Love this, friendly competition and trading notes. Would love to see a collaboration where Rob runs the 9 hole speed course prone, off a backpack, no suppressor and compare results.
I would love to see a gun exchange and see if the rifle they used has the same results with Rob. Great video and very positive in terms of the comparison. No snobbery just a different result.
I've had a PSL for 20 years and I've found that there are two things that can make things harder to hit. 1) the side mount scope can loosen and you loose zero if you're not paying attention to your maintenance. 2) the barrel is so thin that it FEELS like the barrel is "whipping" (don't know if that's even possible, I'm just saying how it feels to me) and it does heat fairly fast. Other than those, I've always enjoyed shooting it and I've taken several deer with it over the years.
It could be on the specific example of the rifle. Especially on rilfes made with older manufacturing techniques. Also when adding a suppressor to the rifle, sometimes it improves accuracy but other times may not be so good. That's why some rifles are better suppressor holsts than others. Nonetheless, it is always a pleasure to watch you perform with those ‘Big AKs’. I missed the PSL train but I'm happier with the M91, feels like higher quality overall.
I have 2 PSL's one I have set for daytime and the other I have set up with a FLIR scope for night-time ops. When I watched the 9 hole review I was perplexed because I was able to repeat 5-inch groups at 600 back to back to back. I am glad someone came back in and ran this again. I have nothing bad to say about the PSL...but I have had some bad East European ammo though.
I had the choice berween a spas-12 and a psl in 2001. I chose the psl, i think about the choice often. Ive never taken mine beyond 220m and only for 10 shots. Wish i could try this.
I have never owned a newer PSL 54, I had an older one, I got a psp scope off kalinka optics for it. Pretty sure it was a Belarusian production. I could never get it figured out, i had 12 inch groups at 100 with no bias in the group. I followed the instructions in the AK boot camp hand book and could not get it dialed in. After about 5 boxes of ammo or more, I finally decided to move on from the rifle, as cool as it was, if I cant get effective hits with it, I dont need it. I traded for a zastava zpap m77. Im starting to get that one dialed in, it really like 150 grain winchester SP. Its been a process but I am getting it going in the right direction. I attribute the lack of quality hits with the PSL to poor ammo quality, myself as a shooter and the lack of knowledge with the PSP style scope. However, with iron sights, I was still getting poor groups at 100. Each testing setting was done from the bed of my truck with a bag to stabilize the rifle.
Great run and exposition about your experiences. Rob, I think it would be interesting to see you run your course with the PSL that Henry used. A comparison between the two rifles would also be interesting.
Than you for doing this Mr.Ski. Have a few of these guns in my collection and never used one. When I viewed the 9 hole review, I thought I could not even give these away. Not that I sell anything form my collection but it is always nice to know you have something to trade if another guy has somethig you are missing. Great Video.
What i did to my PSL. Its a orig Cugir 2020. Not overgassed. Threads cut, new muzzle device, match crown cut. Supressor ASE UTRA DUAl flow through (nearly no pressure increase). With kNS piston its sometimes undergassed. Barrel channel cleared(it touched the wood). Red Star two stage AK trigger. It shoots very well
Rob, Just wanted to say thank you for the great video. I also want to compliment you and the person recording the video. Excellent work on the photography and audio. Best I have seen.
He cleared that course many times almost perfect with other setups. I believe it is the gun since their data and testing prove the rifle shoots low and wide when it gets hot. It would not be so consistent if it was the scope or mount.
When I got my AR 10, I first sighted it in at 25 yards, 50 yards, 75 yards and 100 yards. Red dot Sig sight. I will eventually get a scope for it. Thanks for sharing with us 🙏 God Bless
It’s unlikely but possible, maybe Henry got a series of lemons. Crazier things have happened. I’m not giant PSL fan, but I do think they do a bit better than they’re given credit for. I do think Cugir QC leaves something to be desired, because their experience is not unique. Obviously yours performs.
I can put some good insight on this, all depends who imported them. I had one from inter ordence IO. The rifle shot very true, I had 1-1/2" MOA at 100 yards on a bench. So very tight groups at 300, I don't have longer areas to shoot longer than that. This particular rifle had about a spam can ran thru it. Well it didn't like soft point or hollow points it would Cleave them into 2 pieces. Very sharp edges around the chamber. Pieces of lead would get lodged into the firing pin and bolt, made a huge mess. No help from the company that imported it IO wasn't available for call or anything so I think it's who's imported them like the G3 pattern of rifle. Back in 2007 this PSL was around 650.00 now the same rifle is going for 2300 people are nuts to pay for such a terrible assembled rifle. Just my take on it since dealing with it for so long.
It would be interesting to see nine-hole reshoot with your gun and you with theirs, and maybe as a tie breaker, you both use a gun from a third party . I understand that this would be difficult !
Outstanding! All I can say is my K31 shoots S&B 174gr factory 7,5x55 with the same accuracy as my best hand loads with 155gr Lapua scenar L. Great alternative to GP11, since I can no longer find it
if the weapon is not made with military specifications, but is made specifically for the civilian market, this happens....when you lower the quality to get a better price, you don't have any more claims...the important person who gives the technical specifications is the main culprit.... I'm glad that things are back to normal and that the high price now comes with added value...very well done blog...
Very much a novice shooter here. And 1 of 1 examples. Inhad a io ssg97 (bleh io i know). (78 year kit with a new reciver, built by cugir (2 hole reciver) and imported by io. In 04. And my fathers 2019 cugir built, cai import. Performance is night and day. But his had a welded up bolt. (No kns), my ssg was riveted. So i installed a kns. Less rambling. 2019 psl. Started opening up within 20 rounds and did alot of fliers like henerys The older kit. Held true till about 35 rounds. Both running 77' china surplus copper washed 148gr. I let mine ago as i ran into finacial problems. And regreat it. The new cai ones use alot of cast parts vs the early milled kits. The older barrels are ribbed and are much better at staying cooler. Not much longer. But enough to make a difference. They look cool. But other platforms do it better for less
It definitely seems Henrys psl was having a fit. (He is a superb marksman)...long skinny barrels can be really accurate...when using ammo they like...S&B is really fine ammo for the price...but put some sub par ammo, rapid fire, plus wind together...it's pretty easy to get Henrys results.....also Rob running it isn't fair...even a smooth bore musket would be lethal in his hands...haha
Kit build L4791 matching numbers, 77 marked on top of front trunnion. Kit had bayonet lug removed. I did get the black (BlackHorse?) furniture for it over time. I also had done the gas block plug/drill mod that we did before the KNS piston was developed. I also use the t-shirt across the scope as a brass catcher trick. I hand load SST 150gr. I wonder how the heavy barrel mod PSLs worked out. Even a light weight bolt action hunting rifle can open up on a quick string.
I have been using surplus Russian and Bulgarian ball for a decade and yet to have 3-shot groups more than 2 inches, and yet to find any ammo that can do better.....NUFF SAID.
I've gotten surprisingly good accuracy with Czech silvertip surplus ammo. I don't know if it's available any more, but it runs great through my Mosin Nagants. I bought several cases of it back in the day and have been very happy with it.
I watched their video and immediately was questioning it, my psl shoots very nice and i haven't gotten around to installing the kns piston yet, but i will soon . But at any rate i have killed 2 deer with mine and it shoots very consistently so watching them struggle so much was very confusing, but theirs is an older psl and so is the scope so who knows what was going on for them, hopefully they correct that Because that video is unnecessary painting PSLs in a bad light when in fact alot of them are solid rifles.
