Back when I played the og insurgency, I loved the madness that ensued in push, ieds at spawn, rockets flying everywhere, running with your comrades while you're running through what I can only describe as a "grenade artillery" and best of all, trying to see whats beyond A on sinjar. Push is the og insurgency game mode and I love it just for that reason, even though it may be easier to play in sandstorm than in og.
Same, none of these softies have known the true pain of trying to push A on Sinjar. Spawn camping in sandstorm? I still have nightmares of my comrades being mowed down by machine gun fire trying to cross between those two walls before getting to the road up to A. That being said my most accurate ever killstreak is from counter-sniping on Sinjar A (9 kills with 8 shots with an M24 thanks to a double kill).
You didn't even mention that, if you get murked fresh out of spawn, _minutes_ can pass before you get to play the game again. That's why death is so frustrating.
@@SuperKiao yeah, if i want to play the other game modes than I'll go download cod because that's basically what it is, i literally only Play insurgency because of push and nothing else because it's different than other games, and if you have such a little attention span that you can't handle not playing for literally only a 1 minute spawn delay then just go download any cod game because that's what that game is for
@@loonyshots5879 Is not only a player issue, some maps have weak spawns that are very easy to block with an MG or a DMR. Having to smoke your own spawn gets old very fast.
@@A-G-F- TBH i think that's part of what makes Sandstorm still kinda great. Even if the maps are too open (with some exceptions), you have to play the game a LOT to know this stuff b/c push goes two ways. Are you pushing from hotel side on Gap? EZ win. Are you pushing from Town, or defending from the hotel side? You're about to have a fuuun fuckin game when you get down to point D (at least, if you dont have to keep making the trek back up the ramps lmao)
Push is 70% map knowledge and 30% bringing smoke. I play it a lot so I'm able to make it to objective most of the time. That being said because there is no balancing and most players are below level 50, its usually up to 2-3 players on each team to get on objective then maybe the rest of the team follows. If you jump in for a few days having never played you will, most definitely, get wrecked. Once you get to know the spots and meta routes its pretty fun because you can make a huge impact and get larger kill streaks than firefight for example. edit: also, nobody likes boundaries, but I think they're necessary. If you think spawn camping is bad now, it would be waaaay worse without boundaries. You can still flank, just gotta be creative about it.
Smoke is overrated. Most people have no idea how to effectively use it. They make themselves easier to kill. It's 50% map knowledge, 50% teamwork, which is not as true on other modes.
@@touchgrasstryhard8604 Teamwork is op, but at some point I gave up on trying to get my teammates to do stuff. You can definitely get away with not using smoke on a lot of objectives, but if you're facing a good team that sets up crossfire, they won't let you cross the street without it.
@@zhenmerkulov807 Yeah, I'm not saying it's not neeed, on many points, it very much is. Hell, you're not getting anywhere on Crossing w/out it. But, you really don't need it much, at all on Farmhouse. AND, most people use it poorly. It is best used ON the defenders line and not immediately in front of the attacker, but that's what most blueberries do. Then they run out of the smoke and get mowed down.
it’s kinda the worst and best mode at the same time lol unbalanced teams are by biggest gripe with push and it’s even more infuriating when the “Teams have been balanced” text pops up and you realize you got 1 level 10 dude plucked from the good team
That's bc most of the most stacked teams are groups of experienced players do switching their team doesn't make sense people that are qued together should stay together if you are complaining about people playing well with friends just stick with the game and get better learn from them
@@Sheriff_tasty_beans they are not always all queued together. The issue here is that team balancing does not take into account the level / play time of the players
@@Sheriff_tasty_beans I unironically believe that if there's a group of 6 or so people above level 400 raping a lobby, they should get split up. You cant learn when you're watching your team mates get smoked from the spectators screen.
Me who played Push on Sinjar, Buhriz and Panj in the first one : Gee, I wonder what his talking about? *Sounds of RPGs, Sniper fire, Smoke nades and death in the distance*
You forgot one main thing: THE AUTOBALANCE. I've had this stupid experience many many times where I start as the attacking team, capture 2-3 objectives and then I get auto balanced and have to defend against the same people that i helped earlier. It's a pain,
Yes, autobalance is actually the worst thing in Sandstorm. It should not exist. If you suck at the game, it is ok perfectly fine to get rekt. Sorry. And that sicksnipe guy actually sound like a noob if you ask me. I am not even trying to be rude. Why am I not struggling that much in push ? While being an actual newbie. An interesting question.
I gotta say man your writing is great. You do an amazing job of keeping a good flow and holding attention without getting boring - bet your watch time analytics are great. Keep up the quality work!
This may not be a main issue but I feel smokes are a big problem because if you are positioned correctly you can see somebody's outline or breath and its very annoying when it seems the game wants to promote smoke uses on maps as an attacker and don't work.
In insurgency 2 security had free armour, maybe they should try implementing that. Also make the Tariq pistol free cause its just makarov with slightly higher stats.
This is so fascinating to me as someone who just started Push, hasn’t played any other mode cause it was the first mode on the list and I’m absolutely loving it.
I imagine Sick Snipes doesn't see the game for what it really is. Once you embrace what it is (a semi-realistic syria-themed meat grinder), you come to like push above all the other game modes. It's not about balance, it's about enjoying the chaos.
It is pretty much the most fun mode, other modes are a lot more selfish and doesn't require people working together, it also is disliked because it encourages camping, but i find clearing rooms with people camping kinda enjoyable. Push is also really easy to have unfair games in, i personally just quit and requeue until a good lobby is there, that's my only issue about it, but there's not much to do in it, the other modes are either too casual or even worse in balance.
Frontline is like push but worse, one team gets the middle point and both teams just sit and camp till they run out of spawns. You try to retake middle? You die to campers. You try to push further if you got the mid in the initial fight? You die to campers. At least in push you have your whole team forced to go with you in one direction, but in frontline nobody is trying to play objective
nah, frontline is a fix for push. there is no defined attacking and defending team so the overall number of campers are reduced. most deaths happen because a group of rushing securities met a group of rushing insurgents. in push, camping is the strategy to win, and also for cheap kills. in frontline, camping is a strategy for cheap kills. so there are fewer incentives to sit in a corner and wait..
@@AyedRU-vid dude in frontline everyone literally camps cause theres no incentive to push. Push works when both teams are equals and when security is the one pushing cause helicopters.
@@peenoice5176 the incentive is to capture the central point, without that you'll lose frontline is a better mode because it actually HAS an incentive to push, as opposed to literally a whole team incentivized to camp like in Push. there'll be campers yes, but it wont be the whole team camping. i'd rather get into the action quick, fighting in-between neutral and friendly points trying to fight my way to that neutral point instead of spending 5 waves running with full gear and utilities that will NEVER be enough to cover my whole route alone (because voice comms in asian server is DEAD without friends to play with)
@@AyedRU-vid dude thats on the obj of frontline, the fact that you think thats how frontline is supposed to be played shows whats wrong wirh that gamemode. Theres no incentive to push aside from the neutral point because the one who caps it will just camp. And there are even times that they will just let the neutral point get cap and win cause they wont push forcing the other team into a grinder. You were supposed to cap all your enemies point but noone does that because they will be put into a disadvatage.
What you're raising here talks to the identity crisis Insurgency: Sandstorm has always had. It's often talked of as a 'balance between a mil-sim and an arcade shooter' in being a 'hardcore' shooter...but it's really more an awkward compromise that isn't so much hardcore as it is needlessly frustrating. Push in particular requires the attacking team to co-ordinate with fire support but because it's not a mil-sim there's no structure or chain of command - the commander is just the guy that can bring support in and the observer that is actually a radioman follows him about. They want the game to be asymmetric, challenging and hardcore whilst being realistic and immersive. The result of their philosophy to achieve this whilst still appealing to to arcade shooters looking for that 'compromise' are equipment and capabilities that aren't asymmetric at all except for their aesthetic properties; they are balanced so as to leave you wondering why the Security advisor is less well equipped than the real Afghan commando forces . As for realism...that has long gone out the window...but we're stuck with a class system that annoys people but is fundamentally unnecessary - ain't nobody stacking up on a door waiting for the breacher to make entry exactly because there's no mil-sim structure. Hardcore? No, just getting sniped on Push because the mode and map layout requires team coordination which you won't have. If they wanted balance they could have framed it as ill equipped local security forces against insurgents - old G3's against old AK's.....but they wanted to appeal to the tacticool keyboard operators....who will also be disappointed because as an Advisor you can carry a special forces issue rifle but not afford standard stuff that special forces would fit and carry and what the keyboard operators wanted. Why? Because they wanted asymmetry but didn't want asymmetry. Equipment has to be balanced because god forbid trying something like security being outnumbered or maps offering additional insertion points to insurgents to reflect a 'home territory, popular support' advantage. Instead you get an AK pretending to be Steyr AUG, chugging away. This isn't helped by the community all asking for things that pull in different directions they're upset about and reinforcing the need to balance and simplify the game in ways that leave no room for things like asymmetry or realism. Sometimes a compromise just means nobody gets what they want.
True. Luckily we got mod support and modders can change the game to their ideal requirements. ISMC is insane. For me, insgurency makes a decent balance in milsim and arcade. Tho the issue was, arcade players will not want to listen to commands, they just want something to chill.
Perfect balanced is Frontline. With Frontline Sandstorm works perfectly as hardcore+arcady half-milsim. I don't know why devs don't support the mode anymore.
@@HanKyeolYoon I partially agree. Theoretically frontline should be really good, but I find it seems to spend a lot of time in a deadlock. Whoever has the closest spawn to the central objective when the game starts is most likely going to be the winner. That's why I prefer skirmish. There are more objectives and more flanking routes so objectives change hands more easily.
@@mosfet_737 well that problem is really serious on outskirts, but for the other maps i find Frontline very balanced. And Frontline is for larger maps so that is why i like the mode for the best. But new skirmish is already great, far better than stupid push.
i will agree with some of the points you make, however nobody needs a 4x optic as a demoman. it's a waste. ditch the optic. get the cheapest rifle (an m16). get the explosive launcher for 3 credits. get the RPG or MAWS. get a heavy carrier. you will have 2 grenades for your launcher and 2 rockets as well. you'll be a god. then, you'll have a few spare credits that you can spend however you like. you can buy some attachments for your gun, buy a kevlar vest, get a pistol, or upgrade to a better gun like the ak or aug.
Personally I run with the underbarrel HE, A M3 or RPG, and then as many other frags as I can pack (when I pay as insurgents I pack at least one IED, I toss it for my buddy to pick up and then he runs into OBJ and I’ll detonate him)
Push is the og. Original insugency gamemode. Spawn kills, explosive spam, and linear combat. What I like compared to the other game modes is the fast pace action. Knowing map knowledge is key in push. If you dont know the flanks and dont use smoke its gonna be terrible. Its a total meat grinder and that's why I love it. It is the easiest gamemode to hit clips/high kills.
When I first started playing Sandstorm, I thought this was just a one-off opinion piece. Now after playing for a year I wholeheartedly agree. Push is an exercise in masochism when you dont have a cooperative team. The other day I played a few matches and the final straw was getting auto balanced 5 times in the same match and coming out on the losing team
1 year later and the critiques from this video still hold up. I used to play push almost exclusively, but recently switched to frontline, which feels more balanced and fun. The worst part about push is that you might have all the map knowledge and aim skill in the world, but you're still screwed if your team are lacking either. I got so sick of getting on the point, holding out for a bit before being overwhelmed, and then checking the map and seeing that my team have all hunkered down across the street and refuse to push or all get killed trying the same dumb push a fifth time in a row. The team balance is still fucking atrocious too. I'm fairly high level myself (500 is only fairly these days compared to all the level 1000+ people running around) and most of my push games seem to be decided by which team has all the level 1000s on it. This problem persists in every mode, but snipes is right when he says its most obvious on push. Overall the switch to frontline has been a breath of fresh air. The fact that both sides can push gives the mode an ebb and flow to it that feels much better than in push, which in a bad game is akin to bashing your head on a brick wall. Of course there are still matches where you get rolled, but the option to slow down and bleed the other team after they secure the first point before calling in some fire support for the next push is much preferred to the series of desperate and demoralizing pushes that tend to occur in a lot of push matches.
Legit checkpoint would work better in my opinion lol. Allow counter attack waves on objectives to switch up the attack and defense. Main thing I dislike about push is being stuck doing one thing like attacking or defending for the whole game. Main reason why I like Frontline more is because of that. Wouldn't say Frontline is perfect either but it's definitely preferable to push.
I feel like the out of bound zones could be alleviated with a “buffer” zone that allows movement and shooting but lights your position on the enemy maps. IE they see you but you can still shoot back while trying to get around and into the obj.
I haven't played insurgency in a couple months (basically since warzone shame on me haha) but I remember really liking push, I thought it was a good way to give you a purpose, pushing towards an objective and getting it is the mos satisfying. What would you do to improve it?
I've pretty much had the same exact gripes about these maps from day 1. Its basically suicide to try and move around at all because even if you try to take a side route with lots of ground level cover theres still about 50 elevated angles that have more cover than you that can body you without you ever knowing where the shots came from. Not to mention most of the interiors are very dark in lighting and color and the insurgent team gets a bunch of dark clothing, the maps literally encourage you to just sit in a dark room and snipe everyone that tries to move around outside.
I really only play PvE and that has its own host of problems from quickscoping bots to mouthbreathers who can't grasp the concept that you shouldn't walk in front of a friendly gunner when he's pouring an extended burst through a doorway.
I have about 700 hours in Sandstorm, about 95% of which is playing push. I agree with the points you make, but disagree that push is the worst mode in the game. IMO it's the best mode currently available. Other modes I find too small, lack common direction for the team and disengaging when players invariably play as a lone wolf. Push forces players to work in a team - unless you are in a lobby with 1 or 2 level 1000s who can carry the whole team, the only real way to win is to work together. I find this team play aspect makes the game more interesting. Even better is that NWI found the balance to keep it fun (I've played a bit of Squad and it's boring as hell IMO). There's a reason push is so popular, maybe you just need to play it more to get better at it.
I agree, it's the only mode that truly emphasizes communication and teamwork, and with the sandstorm community being so cool, the people I meet and talk too in games make my experiences that much better.
@@rickrick5350 also unlike push, camping is not a strategy to win a frontline match. frontline basically fixed push but ppl still subject themselves to torture and complain on reddit or something about it lol
Damn I got this game cause I just wanted to play Co-op and barely ever touched PvP and hearing Snipes' description of Push, im glad i've saved so much stress inducing and frustrating matches by just playing the more relatively chill Co-op.
Push is amazing…. When it’s 2 equally skilled teams going at and battles are going neck and neck. But Normally when I play it, it’s either the attacking team steamrolling through the Defensive team at ease or the The entire Defensive team unleashing their inner Dikembe Mutombo and blocking the attacking team for ever coming slightly close to the objectives. I love this game mode but it needs work for sure
Bro a whole spawn wave waiting for the RPG to hit on Sinjar before you pushed was the best though. And their'd always be some poor newbie(s) who didn't listen and die just like we said they would was funny and sad. I had no problems with it. It'd be something snipes would be complaining about here, but that doesn't change it.
Funny, Push is all I play in Sandstorm. Capturing a point against all odds is incredibly rewarding. From my point of view however, each push map is more fun as security push, because at least you've got the helis on your side, making for a more balanced experience.
The devs added the kill camera, despite many protests. The kill camera was never added correctly either, as most of the time you've been killed, the camera shows either the wall, the floor or the roof instead of the enemy that shot you. If it can't show you who killed you correctly, then why is it even implemented to begin with? In push, it works a little better than in coop, only because the Ai doesn't run around like the camping players do. Also, if you get flashbanged, press ESC twice and it should be gone, free pro tip for you. I don't get why we can't have spawn protection, especially when you just joined the match. When in coop, the Ai does get spawn protection, the player never gets that. This also applies in push, but in this case neither team has spawn protection, only that the defenders don't have to deal with that.
As a security demo, run a almost stock m-16, one of your dead teammates will most likely have a decent primary that takes AR mags that you can pick up well prior to getting up into obj.
To be honest, I don't really understand why Push is to Insurgency what Rush is to Bad Company. I still firmly believe that Ambush is the best gamemode in Source. It's the only gamemode that actually requires tactics, flanking, and communication.
@@Starlesslemon I believe I'm thinking about Rush from Bad Company 2? I'm not sure if that's the name of that gamemode but it was the only Battlefield game I own and it was fucking incredible.
Hey Sick, I would be really interested in your opinion on what game mode people should invest their time into as a new player? I picked up the game on console and obviously Push is the go-to mode, but of what I've played so far I find it a little dull and I see many of the issues you describe here.
For anyone watching this video please try frontlines. It's literally push but better. The spawn killing can still be an issue but that's just insurgency unfortunately. But the playable zone actually allows you to flank so it's not just entire teams piling up bodies in one lane.
Push encourages team coordination. Or at least tries to. Gather info first before diving into a building or crossing the street. #1 tip BE SNEAKY. Keep your head on a swivel, dont stamp around, listen to EVERYBODYS footsteps, reposition when it gets hot, use every tiny scrap of cover when moving around. Dont stop directly in doorways, If you're at the front, you're first in. Otherwise back someone else up who knows what theyre doing.
I think one problem that exists is the boundaries going away at 0 waves. There needs to be a 1-2 minute delay on it (or if less than 25% of the enemy team is alive), because sometimes you get absolutely clapped by level 1000+ that wait in the red zone only for it to magically disappear when the last enemy wave spawns. It doesn't happen often because it's a tactic used by scummy ass super high ranking players, but its super, super infuriating when it does happen.
Hey mate! Definitely. When Replay Mode was still working, I watched two Security in District run and hide at Point B before Point A was captured, then when it was, they were able to capture point B immediately and move onto the next point out of sight of the opposing team. They made it all the way to the cache and blew it. Thankfully, it happens rarely, because anyone who does it knows they are spoiling the match for their own side as well.
Hey Snipes! I am the guy who left a comment about audio on one of the videos. This video was a far better experience because the volume levels are now far more even. Thanks a lot! I am not even playing this game but I like to watch your videos about it. (crap rig, little time to play anything) Cheers Snipes! Hope your channel will grow!
So i personally play push the most and i agree on all the points you have mentioned. Push can be really frustrating most of the time, especially when your team are all low levels and enemy team are all high levels. The worst part of Push is how some objectives are just impossible to take when you don’t have the possibility to flank the enemy and when you do you have to pray there are no enemies in the red zone and none of them see you. Now everyone say frontline is better, well in my opinion frontline is way more frustrating, because with almost no red zones the enemy players camp all corners and camp your spawn. i had games where i flanked the enemy for about 5 minutes to just get killed by a camper around the corner, which i have no way of killing him. In my opinion push can be great if they rework some of the maps and balance the matchmaking fairly.
It feels like Co-op Checkpoint feels Push as it was intended to be played, but it works. Solution could be balancing the teams and buffing the Security team's supply points to 20 or something
No matter the problems its still the only mode im going to play, same w rush in battlefield, the chaos and clear objective for everyone is something no other mode can replicate nevermind beat. I only wish that, at the very least, the out of bounds are extended, and certain maps taken out of the pool, like, jesus, some maps are amazing and others are literal torture to play as the attacker.
I agree with the points that spawn camping and team balancing need to be fixed but I like how classes are given less equipment points. It makes me feel like I really have to put thought into my loadout
Not sure if you played classic but push was entirely about gritting your teeth and getting your hands bloody and still is, i don't mind lobbing smoke right from the start or having to use scummy tactics as long as i got a good team or my friends behind me. imo the gamemode translated well into sandstorm but its biggest flaw is the lack of options, usually there aren't any real "lanes" to travel down and having an unreliable team could prevent both sides from even capping alpha which leads to many rounds of stalemate. Besides that i love the feeling so much of having to cut my teeth with my own teammates to get a point capped feels like working at a goddamn hardware store and id do it again on god I'm cracked
They way I see it, push is absolutely great when it works well, but when you get that one game where your blown up milliseconds after you spawn, it sucks
Having been a purely co op player for years now, I actually enjoy the challenge that push brings. It punishes me for running around recklessly, for entering buildings recklessly. I’ve had to relearn a lot of things. And I’ve just accepted the fact that if you’re out in the open, you will be shot. Smoke is definitely essential in traversing the more exposed parts of the map but it does make for quite some nice infiltration situations if you have team coordination. It really sucks though when you don’t have a commander. I’m still not confident enough to play one since I’m new to pvp, but I definitely enjoy learning by being a good observer. One day I’ll have to make that jump though, especially when no one steps up to the plate.
It definitely favors the players who know the map really well. Also that the objectives are in different places than in Coop makes starting out even harder. It's impossible to get to know the new objectives when you get ganked right out of spawn as well. Something else for them to consider is having two different save files. PvE and PvP because a person can get a bunch of levels in PvE and then suck in PvP because it's just new to them.
I went back to Ins2 as my main realistic shooter, recently and I've been noticing quite a few Sandstorm players doing the same. I even talked with someone mid-game about why they're thinking of going back. Despite having less features, Ins2 just plays better, and I'm always surprised by how much more fun it is. I by no means hate Sandstorm but, in my opinion, Ins2 is in a different league in terms of game design.
The restricted area thing is something that really needs to get addressed. Being able to flank adequately when your team is getting crushed down the main path is a critical component of a potential comeback.
I was playing nothing but push and domination for my whole time with the game, maybe ~400 hours. Today I played front and totally loved it. Can't believe I waited so long to really try it!
I don’t know if the scummness of your average insurgency round is because of the map design or the players. The players surely abuse it, but I don’t know if it’s anything intrinsically wrong with the maps. Lots of times, maps have designed counter play. Crossing, for example. In frontline, if you lose the mid cap as insurgents, the enemy have to push past the three story sniping spot and the cliff side wooded scaffold spot, which are on opposite sides of the kill zone. The problem with designed counter play spots on maps is that it’s not really skill that goes into it, but knowledge. A player isn’t a more skilled player for using a spot, they’re just more knowledgeable. New players ARENT going to know all these cheesy spots, and lots of the time, they’re a big part of what makes a map balanced. On Hideout Push Security, you can sit back on Bravo Objective and snipe the entire bridge out, along with the area behind it and some to the sides. This makes the bridge a no go and forces players to go to the river. In Refinery frontline, as insurgents, if you go on the route to the upstairs of Mid-cap, you can hop a fence to a drop down area which snipes a sky bridge, the only direct route for security to that side of the map. There are lots of ways for more knowledgeable players to influence the game by denying chunks of the map, and it requires no skill, just knowledge. I do this all the time, I’m shameless about it. I’m not that great at shooting, but I can use bottle necks to deny chunks of the map and force the enemy into my entire team from unfavorable angles. No skill, just more experienced players punching down on the people who don’t know how to counter their spots, and this is almost every single match
I understand your frustration, this game definitely "pushed" my patience to the limit, but Push relies incredibly heavily on map knowledge and proper smoke utilization. Your arguments about equipment points and map limits are irrelevant or fall back to knowing the maps. I could tell where you got killed from in almost every clip you showed. There's not that many camp spots. It's no different than any other push-styled game from the Rising Storm series all the way back to Bad Company (Remember defending that first island on Isla Inocentes while constantly suppressed by snipers). But I do agree Sandstorm is quite more punishing and takes longer to learn than other examples from the genre, and there is room for improvement.
Agree, map knowledge is key but I think snipez made other good points such as how security demolition can't bring almost any gun because of the high cost and some of the red zones could be tweaked
@@nihilblue9669 red zones are lazily placed, but the sec demo has a lot of guns to choose from, just nothing fancy. But you can still go with the heavy carrier, g36, GL and MAAWS loadout, and still have points left over.
@@diviscadilek1764 Honestly Demolition doesn't need more than a basic rifle with the grenade launcher attachment. I usually do very well with a M16 or AKM and the underbarrel GL.
I very much agree with your point,especially with the loadouts situation(since I'm also a gun nerd) and since most games I play most people just don't play commanders as it is a big responsibility and a big liability when you don't do it right, I think NWI could balance the game around infantry instead of support while nerfing the support (for example using credits for support which will refresh 1 point every death or every 5 minutes) that way we all can be better equipped and fare better in individual gunfights
The things you critique are the things that make it good lol. Push is a hard mode that gleans much of its satisfaction from that very fact, its hard.. Its punishing if your ducks aren't all in a row. Map knowledge, smoke, teamwork, etc. Even how certain OBJs are extremely difficult on certain maps is a good thing IMO. It provides a broader and more realistic dynamic. Some of those games that find us stuck on a hard OBJ, or where the teamwork is lacking, etc. I actually enjoy because it adds a greater challenge. Ultimately the challenge and diversity of experience keeps the game far fresher and more stimulating than it would be if every map were perfectly balanced and you had a perfectly safe little spawn and perfectly safe and easy routes, etc.
@@Gunn3r91697 if you think that in this game it is impossible to flank or pass through the red zones, then I'm sorry for you, you miss big part of the gameplay
Yup. And the situation that he showed was a number of high levels in a party unable to be split up, not normal "teambalance". That's something that perhaps should be limited: number of players in a party. Idk a good way though to really address that. Currently I just leave the lobby anytime I see that.
This is why insurgency is a PVE game for me. I love the gunplay and mechanics of it, but every PVP match I’ve played I die in the first minute and have to wait an entire commercial break before I get to play the video game. Usually dying a minute later, what exciting gameplay.
frontline has some very good maps which even make the game a bit like battlefield but it also has a couple of mountainous maps where there are few paths to flank, i can't remember the names but one is where you have to go through a tunnel and even using smoke grenades it is difficult to cross it without dying. And as you say it is unrealistic for the high command to send their troops to receive direct fire with the sole plan of being so overwhelming that the enemies run out of bullets and only thus be able to reach the goal.
Rising Storm 2 has a good example of a push mode. Especially in regards to being able to flank around in most maps. You can leave your spawn and go several directions that won't lead to instant death, for the most part. Actually played in a RS2 lobby with MGE Gibs before and our squad spent a good portion of the game flanking around the sides and setting up spawn points. Sandstorm's maps are just too small to justify having barriers, it's ridiculous.
Level 1000+ player here, I only enjoy playing push if I am stacked with 8 other players. If I am doing it solo, I use my map knowledge to just get crazy amounts of kills and I ignore the objectives. It is what it is
The thing that has been bothering me a lot coming out of 700 hours of coop was : - Lack of team balance in terms of skills - The fact that flanking is the only thing the gets me kills but PTFOing leads me to die, mostly by one guy camping in some random corner not even on the objective - You can't see the enemy's out of bonds so it's hard to judge where people can be camping without trial and error aka dying and waiting for the next respawn hoping the guy has not relocated so you can flank him if you don't killed by yet another guy camping in some obscure location. - Inconsistent smoke I have had very few games I would qualify as good (balanced, fun, wondering who's going to win without the game feeling like a meat grinder). I think NWI should make a Conquest-like mode since most maps are big enough for multiple simultaneous points and both factions have access to vehicles.
"Spawn camping" is a casual complaint in every game. The match didn't begin with you being spawn camped, but if your team lost map control and the other team got close enough to "spawn camp" then they are clearly winning the map (map control) and you are losing. It's literally a part of the game (in almost every FPS game) and there is no "fix." What do you want the devs to do... increase the spawn protection zone so that you can freely run across the map and right into the objective? If you don't have a grasp on understanding map control and know that you'll need to use smokes to get out of later spawns... then that's you and your team's fault, not the game or developer. "Spawn camping" = map control, it's strategy-based and it's an effective way to prevent the opposing team from capturing the objective which is literally the point of the mode as well as playing PvP and winning. No matter what game or game-mode you are playing - if it's not a 1-life mode and if re-spawns exist... then so will "spawn camping." The only potential reduction of it that would possibly result in slightly less spawn-camping would be better balanced teams, but as you pointed out... good luck figuring that out with such a low player-count without breaking up teams of players that want to queue together.
"This action is inevitable, so why try to find ways to reduce the occurrence of the action being done?" Sure, spawn camping is a strategic move... it also turns the game into a point-and-click for the camper, and an unenjoyable slog for the camped. What's the point in playing a game if it's a coin flip that you'll enjoy your time spent? And as your comment points, "then they are clearly winning the map (map control) and you are losing." So it's a chance you'll lose the starting objective, then because you're going to be spawn camped, there's little chance of recovery? I also think you're half-right about who's to blame for the spawn camping, it's the spawn camper. Sure, the camped can take some blame for moving to a risky area... What if it's not risky? You think it's the camped players fault if the objective is lost and respawn further back at the map, only to get mowed down 10ft. from spawn? Why shouldn't the developers put in a wall or close a window or whatever to stop a wave from being spawn camped? If they want to keep players playing and keep being paid, they'd want to make the game enjoyable. And if the game is only enjoyable to half the playerbase, that half will stay. Then it's hemorrhaging players till the servers close.
@@utube123421 "You think it's the camped players fault if the objective is lost..." - Yes. "Why shouldn't the developers put in a wall..." - because you can't "map" your way out of spawn camping. They put in a wall and then 2 feet to the left/right of the wall becomes the new "spawn-camped" spot. Changing the map literally does nothing for addressing spawn camping because, again, you cannot "fix" spawn-camping. It's inherent to any game-mode that involves re-spawns. - You're point about keeping players happy is completely inconsequential. The developers goal isn't to try and please every single possible circumstance of players that exist, especially in a game that is as visceral and lethal as Insurgency. People already like the game because of the weapons, movement, sound and 1-hit, low ttk style. They don't need to change the gameplay, they need to implement elements that grow the game such as an ELO system as mentioned in the video, leaderboards, unique/rare cosmetics only earned for specific things (and no, not fortnite skins) and even seasonal play or events. Plenty of stuff they could do to grow the game that they choose not to because they only care about selling copies, not retaining players. This game will only ever have 2-3k active players because there's literally nothing in this game that grasps the attention of the current gaming market. Sell lots of copies, make millions of dollars and then put in a half-effort to release the next half-baked game and get people excited only to have to deal with alpha/beta problems that exist in a game that is suppose to be a 1.0 release version.
@@tmaskk Disagree on the keeping players happy. Numerous complaints from hundreds of players about spawn killing and map design will turn off future players from buying copies after a free weekend. Agree on the 'mapping' out of spawn killing, though I do believe certain fixes are possible. Any thoughts on the snowball effect of being spawn camped stopping any recovery of losing the first objective? Or that campers with LMGs have the magazine size to pepper any smoked-concealed area right outside of the enemy spawn?
This is in theory. In practice, spawn camping is a cancer that kills any game. There is nothing easier than sitting at the exit from the respawn and killing the players running by. Brainless fragging. The problem could be solved in several points of the spawn side of the attack. At least two or three. To have the option to choose where the next wave will be revived as an example.
Rising storm 2 does out of bounds pretty well : When you go out of bounds you can still shoot for a few seconds so if you are surprised you can still defend yourself. And when you get out of bounds because the area changed because you captured a point, you can still shoot until you get back in bounds and go back out of them. When defending, we use this to hide behind cover while the ennemy advances and since we're supposed to be out of bounds, they don't expect ennemies and then, we kill them from behind. Even though we usually get discovered quickly, we can still get a few kills and allow our teammates to set up new defenses
What kills push for me is the people who play the gamemode regularly. Commanders who scream at observers for moving an inch outside of their designated hole and people who cry about a round that ended half an hour ago. Id rather just play frontlines and make ape noises with my teammates as we lose 2 points in a row.
For the first issue of team balance, the problem comes from teams partying together. I was on such game because when map changed, the strong >500 level where alltogether. Four members, tht makes a huge difference. The only thing to do in such case is leave the server, and party-up should be forbidden in push.
To really understand the hype behind push you need to play push in Insurgency 2014( aka the best game ever), featuring: -Realistic Scope zoom mechanics so everyone and their mom don’t run Acogs - Full team spawn wipes with rpg and c4s instantly makes you punch monitor. -Literally every single gun one or two shots you. -Most op gun silenced makorov. 100% armor penetration, 0 recoil, flash like running speed,Easy 20k every match. Best part is its Fucking Free, zero cost.
I primarily play push and frontline and I feel like those modes just have what the other ones simply don't. The one-life mechanics of ambush and firefight (kinda), feel stressful and put me in a low-risk mindset, which isn't very fun, and domination feels far less cohesive due to the lack of teamwork and random spawns, ending up with two teams just hurling themselves into a cycle of kill and get killed again and again. With push and frontline, you get to fight alongside your team, holding down angles and sightlines with a clear sense of flow, and objectives feel worthwhile since they add waves instead of just contributing towards a score. The asymmetry with free masks and Makarov for insurgents isn't all that bad, since it's essentially just 1 less smoke or a slightly worse attachment, and weapons quality helps make up for this difference, not to mention the fire support and wave differences. Oddly enough, the concessions from fewer loadout points feel great to work around, and while one might have to give up a fancy suppressor or toggle zoom optic, you can roleplay an ordnance factory for your team, and they in turn make up for your shortcomings. Sure there are campers and snipers, but they are not an issue with the mode rather just people trying to play optimally. Even then, traveling with your team creates better awareness of campers since when one goes down you can pin down the location of a camper anyways, and if they're sniping you can coordinate with your team to smoke, avoid, and flank them, which feels great when its done. Restricted zones also aren't that bad due to the grace period, and many flank routes are easily accessible through restricted zones without even having time to force down your gun. I'll have to admit, stacked teams do happen, and sometimes it's frustrating when you're just down on your luck, but when it works, it just works, and it's the best we've got.
the red zones are aproblem? hold tab to see where you are allowed to go. i use it to hug the edge of the red zone so that i'm still making a decent flank without losing my ability to shoot my gun. if the enemy captures an objective, don't stick around for too long. prepare to fall back.
