Radio Free Mormon VS Midnight Mormons - The Debate 

RFM saved my husband from a very dark place. He will always have a special place in our hearts ♥️

It’s crazy that Kwakus mother fled a cult when he was a baby and he ended up joining one himself.

This was an excellent debate. I am not a member of the latter day saint church but if I were I would definitely leave it after watching this. And I would have to thank Kwaku for that. I found his anger and bitterness and bullying quite shocking.

I disagree that RFM and “company” don’t offer something to those left floundering after learning “things.” They do-they created a place, a space, a community where those left reeling can be carried until they can stand on their own new feet. Because of that space I felt heard, seen and understood. A “church” is not the only thing that “saves.”

RFM is honestly a badass. Logical and composed and cheeky as hell

Poor kids, they have no idea how delusional they are! RFM has solid factual and intelligent foundation to discuss anything related to Mormonism, President Nelson would probably run away from him.

Midnight Mormons are treating this as a personal debate, equating an assault on the doctrine of the Mormon Church as a personal assault on their character, and as a justification to assault RFM's character in response.

I love how Kwaku gets all serious and lectures people about laughing at Moroni's robe while wearing a ridiculous bulletproof vest.

12.5 minutes in and I've heard all three on the left speak. None of them give reasons for why it's historically true at all, just culturally and spiritually meaningful or them.

It's specifically because of people like these 3 that I feel perfectly comfortable never going to church again.

As a person who was an incredibly faithful Mormon, I can testify that almost every good work you do is laced with an ulterior motive that usually has to do with getting people to church.

People like RFM and John Dehlin give me the necessary balance in my life. When I found out at 58 that the LDS Church was not true, I fell into a deep depression. The fact that my wife and daughters remained TBM did not make it any better. In that solitude, people like RFM and John Dehlin have been a blessing to me. And they still are. Thank you RFM!

This is like watching a professional debater vs some precocious high schoolers. Since RFM is an attorney it basically is.

They should have stayed on the first topic as to why they the Midnight Mo's think that the BOM is the most correct book, leading one closer to God than by any other book. Massive claim. Their replies: I like it, makes me feel good, sustains the Bible and gives me hope. No mention as to why it teaches nothing that is unique to Mormonism like Godhood, eternal sealings/ families, three degrees, garments, temples or work for the dead. They believe the claim of the BOM because it made them feel good? This tells you everything you need to know when it comes to a TBM's testimony in the BOM

Well, after many many decades of membership in this church before ceasing my attendance for good in 2019, these 3 did nothing to entice me back. I tried to listen with my pre-2019 ears and even so, I actually want nothing to do with their church. These 3 are nothing like the members I know and love (except maybe Brad). Their church is very different from the one I left behind. PS my family is not destroyed, I am still married and have never been happier with my life- even in a pandemic.

Kwaku’s response at around 35 minutes is a perfect example of hypocrisy-rules for thee but not for me. Kwaku built his little Mormon fame around jokes and making light of serious things, he is in no place to lecture RFM re the seriousness of these topics. Utter lack of self-awareness.

Way to go, RFM!!! We crown you the winner of the debate!!

if only their arguments were as bulletproof as their vests

Anyone else dying to see a debate panel with the esteemed and worthy RFM & John Dehlin vs Nelson, Oaks and Holland? Hey, a man can dream...

Kwaku has imagined up and defends an alternate version of the LDS church and RFM comments on it every time. Great work noticing it! Many people would have missed this but he did it multiple times. RFM catches him, responds to it, and backs it up with specific examples. Very good work!!

Their first answer is "I believe and I feel" Well all other religious people say the same thing that they "Believe and feel" If that is the basis then all religions are true even though they all disagree with one another. Sentimentalism doesn't equate to truth, I lived in some countries where people do crazy things for their religion because they "Feel" that is true. If we use the scriptures then it's clear that God is intelligence, light and truth so we must use that to determine truth not emotions.

RFM, you did a fantastic job. You demonstrated heart and intellect that towered over the Midnight Mormons group. Thank you for your years of service helping people come to a knowledge of capital T Truth.

This debate blew me away. I'm so used to members of the church taking a hard stand with regard to what they believe. When I was a member, I wasn't afraid to say (i.e.), "Yep, that is what we believe, I know it's different and weird to most, but I believe it with all my heart." I was surprised to see how they "bent" the church's policies and beliefs to appear more mainstream thinking. RFM even pointed it out by saying that the church they are painting in their responses is not the church that gets up every 6 months in General Conference and lays down the law. Like Kwaku proclaiming that there will be gay marriage in Heaven and acting like the LDS church teaches that. Does the church know that Kwaku (whom they endorse) is out there preaching this? They treated RFM like he was nuts for having an issue with the hard-line stances the LDS church takes. It was also laughable how they would attack "the other side" and make false accusations, then in the same breathe, accuse RFM of doing the same. Example: Accused RFM's "side" of causing violence and name calling. Go back 2 minutes before this and you'll hear them attacking RFM verbally. I LOVED how RFM pointed out the DISGUSTING video Kwaku symbolizing the church violently bashing John Dehlin's head in. Anyhoo... They just got done bending the church's beliefs to fit into mainstream thinking. I wonder what the General Authorities would say if they watched this debate. Would they be more shocked at what RFM is saying, or what their own representatives are preaching. OH and I loved how the guy on the right didn't know where RFM was getting this saying that it's not okay to criticize the leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true. Um.... dude, your next-in-line prophet, Elder Oaks said it. Does he really not know???

The one thing that was apparent is the church has done a good job of creating a new narrative for the young people. The church they discussed was nothing like what I grew up in. The three amigos are obviously not well read or educated but I must say that they helped my wife who was on the fence with the church to realize she’s not a TBM. So thank you for your pathetic attempt to defend the defenseless MM.

I'm 10 minutes in and I see that their pitch for the Book of Mormon is a disjointed, fallacious mess.

Bravo RFM. You took the armored youth TO CHURCH.

Maybe it's the lawyer in RFM, but the patience one would have to have to keep their cool with those three (especialliy Kwaku) is incredible. I'd certainly have lost it within the first few minutes.

Those kids are completely unfamiliar with historic Christianity.

Ironic how the agnostic/atheist RFM seems much more genuinely Christian than the Midnight Mormons.

RFM did a great job keeping composure. This is amazing 👏

Wait wait wait. So you can trace the folk magic roots back to Europe. That makes it ok? If Joseph was divinely inspired, why did he need traditions old folk magic to do god’s will? I don’t get Kwaku’s argument for the folk magic being something pre-colonial, I’m not sure what that proves Edit: time stamp @ 24:08

First off, Kwaku, in the United States of America our constitution ensures that EVERYONE deserves a defense. Attacking an officer of the court is un American and pretty disgusting from an insolent punk whose protected life depends on the freedoms and rule of law RFM has taken an oath to defend. I have been a Mormon for over 50 years. I'm also a father, grandfather, veteran, scientist, musician, mechanic, returned missionary, high priest, and held nearly every ward leadership calling except bishop. Mormonism didn't hide anything from me. All the information was out there labeled "Anti-Mormon". From primary age on, I was told and conditioned to believe that if I read Anti-Mormon literature the devil would take over my mind and I wouldn't be able to determine lies from truth. (Celestial North Korea immediately comes to mind.) The Midnight Mormons walk a fine line between false courage and idiocy. First sight of the bullet-proof vests said mounds about the victim mentality on parade by the left side of the stage. The political innuendo was deep. Plus the flags... come on dudes. Touting religion as some moral superior over secular humanism is a joke. You guys strike me as not having read much of the oppositions' arguments. Faith alone cannot be a moral standard because, what could not be believed with faith? Faith cannot be used to determine truth. That's why there are 1000's of versions of Christianity and dozens of versions of Mormonism. Put another way by Sam Harris, there isn't Mormon, or Muslim algebra, there's just algebra. If a god could create something as complex as algebra such that it is un ambiguous worldwide, why would god make religion so confusing that the REALLY REAL church only represents .2% of his children on earth. 99.8% of the earth can't or won't accept Mormonism as packaged in its current goofy awkward narrative. Which is why they are trying so hard to whitewash history. I call that an epic fail even for the most inept god. Read the Moral Arc (Shermer) or Moral Landscape (Harris). You'll learn what it means to be a responsible caring human. I guess I can see why church leaders don't do debates. It's nearly impossible to defend the indefensible and exit with even a shred of dignity. A parting line from dumb and dumber, "what if they shot you in the face"?

Nothing about Kwaku seems genuine

Kwaku is the poster child for ad hominem attacks.

I’m a never-Mormon and can’t help but see that RFM is arguing about the church doctrine, history, and policies while the others attack RFM personally. Very typical of the generation in my experience

I mean the only reason these guys know about seer stones is because of groups like RFM. I grew up in the church in the 90s and I didn't know about any of this stuff.

RFM, you made me fall in love with you all over again. You wiped the floor with them. Well done my friend! Well done!!

I hoped they would dive into the harder-hitting topics in church history. I felt like there was too much time spent on discussing interpersonal issues or trying to frame one another as being worse than the other. To be clear I'm always and forever #TeamRFM.

Body armor? Really? How silly and juvenile.

I’m commenting a ton, sorry if that’s annoying anyone. @ 53:14 RFM hits hard with this statement!! “The church doesn’t hide stuff! I knew about this growing up” The problem is YOU might know, but so many of us don’t. It isn’t talked about typically and it turns out you might be the exception. The church hides information, denies they hide it, doesn’t want certain things talked about, and punishes those who find out and try to talk about it

Kwaku's statement about people believing in all sorts of things is an incredible self-own. That actually proves that people are very gullible, that's why so many religions have been around millennia before Joseph Smith was born. Arthur Conan Doyle was an excellent writer and a doctor... He also believed in psychic abilities and thought that fairies were real. Good people have been targeted by con artists and charlatans since the dawn of mankind, but that doesn't prove that any of that stuff is real.

It’s true the MMs have invented a different church than Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. The church I was in in the mid-50s to 1978 is different than MMs new Mormon church they are talking about in this show.

Truth should be prevail and be the objective of everyone, these kids need to learn integrity and seek the truth no matter what happens.

K.’s mom FLED polygamy. Doesn’t speak positively about polygamy.

These 3 act like Mormon history from 1840 to 2014 never happened even though the say the respect it. They want to send Joseph Fielding Smith, McConkie, Brigham Young, Legrand Richards, Talmage, and everyone else from the last 150 down the memory hole. The LDS church the y talk about does not exist. Maybe one day it will but I find it very dismissive of my 50+ years in the LDS church.

I enjoyed watching RFM and would love to see him in this environment more! That being said, I would also actually like to see the version of this with Bill Reel.

I came to listen to this after I finally caught up to the episodes in Mormonism Live where they started to discuss this debate. I was interested in hearing what the Midnight Mormons had to say until Kwaku started on "your side" at 1:13:10. The accusatory tone, the aggressive finger pointing, the deep malice in his voice just decimated any of his credibility, if he had any left. I enjoy a good debate. Kwaku and company are not worth debating.

Why is it that the best friend of arrogance is wanton ignorance? Maybe because they complement each other so well. I'm sorry, but all I see from the MMs is arrogance. Their minds are slammed shut.

"I survived proposition 8" that was asinine. Your side picked a fight and tried to disenfranchised a group of people out of bigotry. People called you bigots, deal with it.

This format was horrible. I understand why Bill didn't want to do it. You can't have a meaningful conversation this way.

That poor kid. His mother gets them out of one cult and he jumps back into another one.

Kwaku ... (all of you midnight boys) ... do you actually listen to yourselves?

Jesus himself could be in front of this trio and even then they will lean towards LDS cult, that's how much they are brain wash

Even when I was a cop and the only Mormon family in the county, I rarely wore a bulletproof vest even for the job. I was literally shot at three different times (fortunately, they missed, but barely). This bulletproof vest is one of the dumbest stunts I have seen in awhile. They must not have much faith in prayer and their god to stop bullets. I didn’t pray and survived death and serious injury. Not praying works 😉.

Keep in mind, this is the same Kwaku who went on Jeff Durbin's podcast for a debate with a Christian and got absolutely shredded. He was called out for his lies, called out for his lack of knowledge of historical Christianity, and promptly made a youtube video with character assassinations labeling Durbin as a "5-time felon" which is completely made up. Kwaku has a pattern. Poke, Prod, Lie, and then when called out, make up lies about the person. Pathetic.

This was very enlightening. I have never been nor will ever be a Mormon. I have studied and listened about Mormonism as it’s very interesting to me and I find it helps me understand the belief of religion as whole. The MM’s seem very bought in and delusional. I just watched the Street Epistemology episode with Sean and John Dehlin. It made me really want to know why the MM’s have dug in so hard on this. I wonder if they would be open to Street Epistemology. This was really great to watch. Thank you.

These young men see a very different church than the church I saw in the 80’s to early 2000’s. It’s much easier to relate to RFM’s view of the church, even though I’m 20 years younger than he is.

I'm watching this again, remembering all of the talks which were given as I was young, of faithful members dying for the faith, and these guys show up to a debate with bullet-proof vests on...

"I don't know where this don't criticize the leaders of the church came from" lololol 😆 It came from one of the leaders of your church dude.

Can I ask the trio… is having a spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ minus Mormonism okay?

Love how church supporters blame RFM and others for the trauma the church caused. That's very typical in abusive relationships. RFMs lighthearted approach to things has made my faith transition so much easier. I have been shown by RFM and others that despite the troubles of a faith crisis happiness and meaning can be found...and yes, leaving Mormonism is indeed a graduation.

I chuckled when Kwaku pulled out his phone and quoted from D&C 137 as though it's an authentic, inspired scripture---and then RFM informed him that that document had to be revised and edited by from its original form as stated by Joseph Smith because it contained several errors and failed "prophecies." I wrote some comments on this subject back in 2001: D&C 137 provides us with a dramatic example of the censorship and revisionist history that pervades Mormonism. The original writings which became D&C 137 first appeared as Joseph Smith's journal entry for January 21, 1836. The complete, unedited original is published in "The Papers of Joseph Smith," volume 2, (edited by Dean Jessee), and published by Deseret Book. The "canonized" version of D&C 137:5 has Smith experiencing a "vision" wherein "I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother..." However, the original, unedited version of this verse reads "I saw father Adam, and Abraham and Michael and my father and mother..." This significance of this is the deletion of the words "and Michael." In Joseph Smith's later-developed theology, "Michael" was the premortal embodiment of the first man "Adam." In other words, they were one and the same person. But in Smith's original alleged "vision" of 1836, Smith asserts that he saw "Adam AND Michael..." The intentional deletion of those words from the published version of D&C 137 tells us two things: One, modern LDS leaders recognized that a contradiction existed in Smith's allegedly authentic visionary experience, so they consciously altered Smith's original journal entry to eliminate the contradiction. Second, the contradiction itself proves that Smith's "vision" was not an authentic occurrence, but rather was the product of his imagination. Obviously, Smith could not have seen "Adam AND Michael," yet later assert that they were one and the same being. The published version of D&C 137 consists of only 10 verses---less than half a published page. By comparison, Smith's original, unedited account of this "vision" is four printed pages. In the original, the portion immediately following the published verse 10 reads: "I saw the 12, apostles of the Lamb, who are now upon the earth who hold the keys of this last ministry, in foreign lands, standing together in a circle much fatiegued, with their clothes tattered and feet swollen, with their eyes cast downward, and Jesus [standing] in their midst, and they did not behold him, the Saviour looked upon them and wept---I also saw Elder [William] McLellen in the south, standing upon a hill surrounded with a vast multitude, preaching to them....." Those familiar with Mormon history realize that apostle William McLellin resigned from the LDS Church in May of 1838, giving for his reason "the excesses of the church at Kirtland" (obviously referring to the failed Kirtland Bank venture and associated difficulties.) (See Jessee above, p. 241.) McLellin therefore never served a mission "in the south," and did not have the experience what Smith claimed he would in his above "vision." That shows that this portion of Smith's "vision" was fraudulent. That fact reveals why modern LDS leaders chopped off Smith's original "vision", ending the published version with the sentence that immediately precedes the McLellin portion. Modern LDS leaders couldn't allow a statement that was obviously fraudulent to be included in the "canonized" 1970's publication. For more than 100 years, critics of Mormonism have ribbed LDS leaders over the lack of any new "revelations" to add to the Mormon "canon." That causes one to wonder if LDS leaders decided to "canonize" the two "visions" in the 1970's, purely to quell such criticism. It appears that LDS leaders merely pored through decades-old statements to find something worthy of "canonization". Yet, the "canonization" of those old statements does not alter the fact that modern LDS leaders, since Joseph F. Smith in 1918, have not had any "revelations" of their own which were important enough or suitable for "canonization." The LDS Church claims to operate on "continuing revelation"; yet, the last "revelations" canonized in nearly a century, were already nearly a century old! The "canonization" of Smith's 1836 "vision" makes for an amusing scenario: LDS leaders proudly published it as a "revelation," yet in order to render it consistent with Mormon theology and the facts of history, they had to edit out the portions which were false; in effect, making a "silk purse out of a sow's ear." A basic premise of Mormon apologetics is that the Bible has been altered, mistranslated, or had portions deleted by "wicked priests" during the "great apostasy." Of course, no one can identify exactly which portions are missing or mistranslated, because no original Bible manuscripts exist. By comparison, Joseph Smith's original journals exist, and have been published in their original form, by the LDS Church's own Deseret Book Company. In spite of that, LDS leaders have revised and edited their own "Prophet of the Restoration's" documented statements, in order to suppress their contradictory portions. One wonders if, years from now, LDS leaders who altered Smith's original statements will themselves be viewed as "wicked priests" who changed "revelations" for their own interests. It should go without saying that LDS apologists' claims of an altered Bible pales in comparison to their own altering of Joseph Smith's documented "revelations." In criticizing the Bible, LDS apologists are merely pots calling the kettle black.

I thought their masonic garments were supposed to be bulletproof? lol

Interesting discussion. This is the first time I've seen a debate between active Mormons and people who have left the church.

What a horrible thing for Kwaku and his buddy to allege that RFM is an advocate of violence against anyone. That’s libel, and I wish RFM would sue these two!

I try to remember they are exactly how I was at times in my youth, on my mission and the early years afterward. When you are given only one correct worldview and told only one way is okay of thinking about that worldview, should their responses surprise anyone? I believe they have a lot of dissonance by realizing on some level that the churches solutions to the problems are by far not the most likely explanation. At the same time they see the clear good in the people on Sunday. The comfort the doctrine provides at times and in certain ways and they probably have had experiences they interpret as divine approval. They want to defend their tribe because they see the good the tribe does and the good people in that tribe. I believe because of the nature of Mormonism it attracts and keeps some really remarkable people. There are also those that do not impress. Ultimately for me I made a choice years ago that I wanted to make sure I was really giving every side of every topic the proper consideration. This was a painful process and at this point I have jettisoned some of my believes religiously, politically and philosophically. I also confirmed many too. This to me is the only way to live. Wanting the truth as much as possible and doing the most good. That is a life well lived.

They try to vilify RFM, he never said they were bad artists, that's what the church is saying, the church blames the artists for "misreprenting" how Joseph Smith translated the BOM. I was born in 1986, was active my whole life,, went to early morning seminary attended every church Sunday meeting- IT WAS NEVER TAUGHT TO ME THAT JOSEPH SMITH USED A ROCK IN THE HAT. I Learned that he used the urmim and thumim along WITH THE PLATES to translate the BOM. THERE WAS NO MENTION OF A SEER STONE! Also, I had major depression, anxiety, and even suicidal thoughts when I was an active believing member. It wasn't until I left the church that my anxiety went completely away, and my depression got better, and I stopped having those thoughts. So the fallacy that they spew, is completely wrong. A lot of people find more happiness outside of the church, because they can be authentically themselves, and I applaud RFM's line, "Outside of the church we love people BECAUSE of who they are." I find that I truly love and accept others for who they authentically are outside of the church, not just because I am told that I have to love others, even if they are "sinners". 👏👏👏👏

Well done RFM !!

Now we know why Kwaku is LDS, as he comes from another cult. How sad! The damage continues.

The ACA has several sources for those struggling after their deconversion from religion. For myself, I had no struggle after I left, but it may have been due to my deconversion being a slow process that took several years, and several reasons for me to deconvert. To my family, I am just inactive. Only a few know I am full blown atheist.

1:37:58 Kwaku puts forth what is worse to tell someone who identifies as LGBTQ+: either that their way of life isn’t going to allow them to become exalted or that after death, there is nothing and that we are just cells. One targets the persons individual worth and makes it so they won’t have eternal happiness and the other merely says there isn’t heaven…. Kwaku says telling someone they are just cells and there isn’t an afterlife is the worst thing you can tell someone. Wow! I’m stunned 😳

I actually also came here to listen to something I missed...but wow...the only thing these 3 proved is the arrogance of the lds...it's sickening...and crying as if on cue!!!👏👏👏👏👏

Kwaku mind lacks logical thinking. In one statement Kwaku bemoans the harm that unequal distribution of wealth imposes on the world, but later fear mongers leftest values. Which is it Kwaku? Kwaku never acknowledges that polygamous relationships is the ultimate objectifier of women. Brad implies, that both the husband and wife together brought in polygamous wives, even though that was incredibly rare. I highly doubt that the audience appreciated RFM's repeated reminders that the MM's description of Mormonism was fictional.

The truth will set you free. As someone who has come to know the LDS church isn’t true, now I’m free to re-examine the world through new lenses. I am free to ask more questions I thought I had answers to. Leaving the church doesn’t condemn someone to an awful life! There is happiness on the other side of leaving. Atheists can be happy, good people too. You don’t have to be religious to be a good person or lead a meaningful and fulfilling life

32:50 was a powerful statement. It’s been my experience too since leaving Mormonism

RFM You rocked it!

I spent 8 years teaching early morning seminary, so 2 years on the BOM, and NEVER did our curriculum include the seer stones. And we were strictly only allowed to teach exactly what was in our manuals. JS was a storyteller and practiced his story with his famiy as entertainment, then stuck his head in a hat and re-told his story to a scribe who later edited it...all this to make money selling this great book just as the book "Review of the Hebrews" had recently done. Creating a religion was an afterthought when he realized he could control people and cheat them out of their money. IMO

Show of hands, who thinks anyone only has worth if they have some connection to a larger existence? Phrased another way: do people matter simply for being people, or do they only matter if god is real? Edit: clarification, this is in response to Kwaku’s (don’t know how to spell his name) answer to the first question @ around 9:50 to 10:20 (he says, if you take away a persons divine aspect, you relegate them to nothingness)

RFM you did a great job!!!

lol they actually believed they needed bulletproof vests??

Who says that questioning the authenticity of Mormonism means your an atheist?

@ 44:58 Kwaku’s willingness to accept that mormon heaven might have room to include a man married to another man is the most progressive thing I’ve ever heard from a church apologist. It’s also one of the only things I’ve heard from Kwaku in this debate I actually liked! Let’s hope this specific kind of thinking can grow and eventually change doctrine in the church!

Wow. That was a hot mess. No question RFM out debated but nothing was accomplished. Everyone will just keep on doing and believing (or not) as they do.

I keep trying to get through it but I can't listen to Kwaku rant about only tangentially related things. Talk about something asked. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it so. Wanting religion in your life doesn't make mormonism true. Or thinking it's a good life model isn't the same as it being true. Because people who are not mormon have also done the bad things joseph did, or because you can't convince yourself some contrary fact doesn't matter to you, or even if RFM, dehlin, any of the "known" podcasters were terrible awful people (I don't think they are, they seem perfectly stand up guys) it doesn't make Mormonism "true". And most of all you feeling the holy ghost who is known to testify of mutually exclusive things regularly, doesn't make mormonism true.

If their faith is all lies then a nihilistic dustbin is better than faith in a lie. Also, the eternity described by Mormon theology is not that great when you examine it critically.

These questions are terrible. They are so shot gunned. Kwaku is a rambling fool. Poor kid doesn’t even see it.

The Midnight Mormons used some surprisingly heterodox arguments which was interesting. Radio Free Mormon was also more compassionate than many ex-Mormons I've run into. Overall, I think this was a refreshing and helpful discussion.

I love RFM. These youth are talking nonsense.

Am I the only one who was thoroughly unimpressed with the questions that were asked?

1:02:11 so where was this information found in church correlated material available to the average member and taught to them? Hard evidence please!

Kwaku believes John Dee was receiving divine inspiration through folk magic. Belief confirmed @ 26:38

So funny what MM does at the very beginning to Bill Reel. Trying to play mind games. Making it seem like they need to give RFM a “fair” shot. Let the record show lmao. MM a bunch of whiners

Love RFM. Don't know who these other guys are, but they look and sound absolutely ridiculous.

Can’t wait to see Kwaku when he’s an ex-Mormon!😂

Legend has it that Kwaku is still asking to this day "What does know mean?"

I really liked RFM’s answer to the first question. That the BOM for him is scripture and he recognizes it as scripture for many people (even if not for all people) even if it isn’t historical or true. We can find words of wisdom and truth throughout the writings of the world in nearly any creed, era, by any gender, and by any “race.” (Race is in air-quotes because it’s a social construct). If we could allow ourselves to be open to other forms of “scripture” we could all learn greater moral lessons. The only issue I have with any scriptures out there is if they are touted as absolutely true, without fault, and the only words to live by.

All people have love for their children and profound connections to their families. This doesn't mean that Mormonism is true. Let's look at the historical claims of the BoM and the Bible first over feelings. I can say the Holy Ghost tells me the BoM is false bases on prayer, studying, and observation of evidence. So if we rely on feelings, truth is subjective. However if we look at empirical evidence we have greater proof for the spiritual experiences. The BoM has some great allusions to Christ's teachings but also it's a different gospel. ("saved after all we can do vs saved by grace").

RFM was spot on.

Just one more thought. Common to many who have left the Church, it's said that they feel joy and happiness. What it really is, is a sense of relief, even a release from the depression or guilt of constantly falling short and not measuring up. They've finally escaped the cause of all their anxiety. They can now just be themselves, without having to feel guilt for not ever being good enough. BUT, that relief can't be maintained if, there's a chance that the church they left might be true, so, every effort is put into tearing it down. The relentless driving force behind some, who never stop trying to tear down the Church and it's members, is the same force that drives them to maintain their state of shortsighted guilt-free contentment, at all costs. Also, honestly, I have no doubt that many (or most) feel so much better after they've left because we always choose to be where we're the most comfortable. Most just aren't comfortable living to our fullest potential. Everyone will actually choose where they want to be in the next life and most will choose not to live like Heavenly Father, not because they can't, but because they don't want to.

22:40 where in the “correlated curriculum “ was It taught that JS used a seer stone to translate? The argument “I heard about it “ is interesting but unverified.