Ranger School Isn’t for Everyone - Why I Picked Sapper School Instead 

What’s the point or skill u learn in sapper school? I just know if u had a sapper tab, you were a bad ass. It’s kinda like having a path finders tab. U know it’s hot chit but really don’t know what skill are learning

Bro they really need to limit the number of times individuals can recycle in general. I say that all the time ‘how the F*** did this guy pass Ranger school’

I'm a seabee as well I didn't know who could do that

@@RogueSeabee So 12B deal more with demo but I have spoken to SAPPER school house and it falls back to our commands signing off on SRC if there’s a seat we can go. I’m at LOGSU so they’re more willing than Bn

@@TheFloresj23 oh ok. Will ask my chain thanks

@@RogueSeabee reach out to the school house, see if there’s a seat get the CANTRAC Id number, start date, get a POC preferably a SSgt or if you can the Ops Sgt. Put all of that on SRC and hopefully it works out. I’m doing same on my end. What Bn are you with?

@@TheFloresj23 im with NMCB-5. Thanks for the info

How so? Is the Ranger not useful aside from getting getting promoted?

@@robertisham5279Ranger School is very much overrated. It’s basically just a leadership school where your body gets beat up. Ranger Tab itself is imo unnecessary unless you decide to go to RASP and do a tour in the 75th RR. Although unnecessary to be SF, it does help a lot with SUT and Leadership. Most 18Z’s and 18B’s I have met have the tab.

SAPPER is a joke! Simple as that!

Gtfo with that shit, sounds like you were too scared to attend.

My ranger tab didn’t expedite any promotions at all.

Not true. You can go as any mos

As a combat engineer you can also go to Ranger School. Combat engineers are usually mixed in with infantry because of their special skills dealing with demolitions and mine warfare. Combat engineers always have had the option to do both schools. Why would someone want to be a sapper and not a Ranger? Usually at that level you would want to be around a more disciplined unit so its either Rangers or if you can get the invintation then try to become a green beret. Would hate to be a sapper who was towards the top percentage of combat engineers and get stuck with an average unit filled with average soldiers because either they lack intelligence or discipline.

@@monetandameron4744 When did that change? I remember back in the mid 90's it was only available for combat engineers but the Army has changed allot. They even went the dodo bird and gave everyone a black beret which used to be only for Army Rangers. Glad I switched to the Air Force before this happened. Spent my summer hanging out and speaking with retired commanders in their 70's and 80's. They had nothing good to say about that general who made that decision.

January 2025? You got time to work out and get in the best possible condition..Good luck and turn off home life, friends, and relationships; focus only and prioritize your basic training and AIT school.

@@d.rcarrera6599 copy that. Thanks.

Enjoy Leonard Wood brother. It’s gonna get real chilly up there…

@@falsealias2046 Become an informed Soldier and take all the training schools available. A military education is a good education if applied correctly. I learned from a different model that, in some respects, I learned better than civilian education. After active duty, I served two years in the Army reserves and took one correspondence course and it was an eye opener. I was given like almost two years to complete and finished it in almost 5 months..Learn and grow.

@@d.rcarrera6599 I plan on going to airborne and air assault school. It may be ambitious, but I do plan on attending sapper school as well. SF if I’m crazy in love with the military life.

Just for that Tower of Power baby. It goes back to the old culture, back in the day Ranger & even Airborne, was only for elite infantry, Rangers, SF,.now a lot go for Leadership to Rank, or for a recruiting experience

@@Frank-uw5xq - Yeah, I know. More power to them if they want to chase it, but if I'm already SF and didn't go before, I ain't going now. Lol

@@parawill7074 How would you be a more versatile infantryman and support soldier if you went to sapper school?

@@robertisham5279 - Learning and testing yourself with a new skill set where you could utilize it if faced with a situation where your unit would need a subject matter expert that isn't readily available. An infantryman doesn't need Ranger School to be an effective leader. You can learn all the planning and squad tactics at your unit, and the expectation to perform on the battlefield doesn't change at all. Now, you give me a couple of infantryman or a support soldier assigned to a combat arms unit with Sapper training and now I have some guys that I could utilize which could make my unit more versatile in combat operations, especially with using demo (I would send them to advance courses as well). The battlefield is changing and infantry units need 11Bs with a variety of skills that take them beyond just having infantry skills. Engineers support the infantry, but there are benefits to having personnel who have engineer skills who would be capable of planning missions that would normally need engineer assistance, but could be potentially handled themselves.

I think this post by TFVooDoo tells why many still go and need to go to Ranger school after the Q-course. Why Go Back To High School When I Already Graduated College? I’ve had quite a few guys over the last few weeks ask me about Ranger school for Green Berets. When should you go, is it worth it, why go back a level? I know that we’ve tangentially had this discussion before, but not as a separate thread. So here goes. First, Ranger school is not a ‘step back’ from the Q course. The high school to university analogy just isn’t valid in this case, no matter how many times it gets repeated. The guys who spout this nonsense are the same guys who say they don’t need to take any college courses because they already got a “PhD in UW from the school of hard knocks”. Or even worse, Pineland U! Fucking weirdos. Ranger school is THE premier small unit tactics school. Not just in the Army or the US, but in the world. I know that this is a grandiose statement, but it’s true. I’ve surveyed all of the big ones, talked to graduates and instructors, and I’ve even been an instructor in some. There are some good ones out there. Tough, austere, rigorous. But none are better than the US Ranger school. The quality of instruction, the quality of instructors, the training environment and resourcing. The best. We’ve wrung every ounce of efficacy out of it. Unmatched. I know that Ranger school is a “leadership school” and open to all now. So by default it’s less than and doubly so because they let chicks in and they lowered the standard and it’s all RI Roulette and fuck that noise. Keep making excuses, you tabless bitches. So why go down to the Benning School for Wayward Boys (Fort Moore just doesn’t have the alliteration!) if all Green Berets already go through SUT during the Q? I’ll grant that the SUT training in the Q is absolutely top notch. It always has been and I’m hearing reports that it’s getting better, which is hard to do. It is phenomenal training. My SUT Cadre was SFC Paul LeFavor…yes, that LeFavor…so I know I was trained by the best. He was incredibly knowledgeable, very demanding, and a top-tier instructor. But… A key component to SUT is repetition. You need to see multiples TTPs, under multiple conditions, with multiple variables, and different teammates. The Principles of Patrolling are very broad and good instruction creates a box to learn in. So the more times that you can bounce around inside that box the better you can understand the topic. SUT (I know the Phase is labeled Tac Skills, but the tac skill is SUT) in the Q is only a few weeks AND you’re dealing with many non-combat arms guys or really inexperienced guys. So the training, for as good as it is, is governed by the lowest common denominator. Ranger school is 8 weeks (more…if you want it!) is hyper focused, and you will get multiple leadership positions across multiple levels, guaranteed. In the Q it’s not unheard of to only get one look at a Squad Leader or above graded patrol. Quantity has a quality all its own and you simply can’t replace the power of repetition. I’ve talked to multiple recent Q course grads and their grasp of SUT is good, but not nearly as good as it needs to be. My old Team Sergeant, a former 75th guy and mountain RI would blow a gasket, though. He would berate you if you called a transport tightening system a trucker’s hitch….IYKYK. Made a junior Bravo cry once. That’s a good enough barometer for me. The problem is that Ranger school is a suckfest. There is no other way of putting it. You are going to get smashed. You have to swallow your pride and do somebody else’s pushups. It’s humbling if not downright humiliating. And the mantle of shame if you go and fail? It can be too much for many. So many senior guys are reluctant to submit to this. It’s human nature. Completely understandable. But they are misguided in their thinking. All Green Berets need to become experts in SUT, and a few weeks in Pineland just isn’t enough. Every JCET that you go on is focused on Advanced Light Infantry Tactics or whatever the current popular vernacular is. FID, and its wartime counterpart UW, is SUT-centric. Could you learn SUT with a concerted focus during team training? Maybe. Could you get just as much by doing an in-depth analysis and study of doctrine, training manuals, and smart books? Nope. Are there SUT SMEs with no Ranger tab? Yes. But why fiddle-fuck with a bunch of half measures? Just swallow your pride and go to Ranger School. Learn from the best in the best environment. Are you elite or not? Why not Sapper school? It’s just as good, right? Nope. Sapper school is good, no doubt. But it’s not Ranger school. It’s just not as credible, either with your US counterparts or definitely not with our allies and partners. It’s just not. Perception matters. So when should you go? The answer is that you should go as soon as possible. It makes no difference to your chances of getting selected, even though a Ranger tab is a good predictor of success (correlation not causation). But you should go at your first opportunity. It will definitely put you in a strong position for the Q course since you will have all of that experience to help you during Tac Skills, but also sends a message of credibility. It’s not infallible, but it’s marked. If you don't go prior to SFAS, then go as soon thereafter as possible. You'll be a stronger asset for your team. And I would be remiss if I didn’t cite the 3 Rules. There is nothing that looks cooler than the venerable Triple Canopy. The stacked Airborne, Ranger , and Special Forces tabs just look cool as fuck. I submit that it looks better than the 4 tabs of adding a Sapper (or God help us an aRcTiC, jUnGLe, or President’s Hundred tab). Always look cool. I also recognize that I come from a prehistoric age when silly things like colorful patches held higher esteem than normal. A pre-GWOT mindset where training was everything because there were no wars (for the record, I’m pre, mid, and post GWOT and I’m still ‘in the fight’, so I get it). Then we spent two decades of sustained combat in multiple theaters, so Ranger school took a backseat for many that looked at deployments, CIBs, and combat patches as better options. Well, guess where we are now? Post-GWOT. And we’re returning to the Army of old. Suck it, zoomers! There it is, your answer about Ranger school and Green Berets. Am I biased? Probably. Am I right? Absolutely. I’ll close with more words of wisdom from my Team Sergeant, “You’ve either got a tab or a story, and nobody wants to hear your fucking story.” Ruck Up Or Shut Up

Thanks, you too!

Sappers lead the way, said no one ever 😂

@@Cerakote123 said your mom as she was getting her guts dug out by a Sapper

How you weren't medically qualified

@@warlord562 I needed to take regular medication for certain issues. Also had a slight curvature in my spine.

Where would you recommend taking courses? Do you know any good instructors on the west coast.

Direct Action Group in Huntington Beach. Progressive Force Concepts in Las Vegas. Google. Lots in Cali.

@@genecps Thankyou

I'm NG but have already dropped my packet for Sapper school. And I've been told that Ranger school is a marathon while Sapper is a sprint

You have to have the EIB to get the CIB.

@@theirishhammer9451lol wrong

Lol that is true

Fake news

Been around since 1986 at Ft Leonard Wood, MO

where can you learn about Vietnam's sapper course?

@@mikesmith7497 no idea. i'm 68, read and hear dozens of stories about Viet Cong Sappers making it past WHATEVER FireBase perimeter defenses, (''GOOKS INSIDE THE WIRE!!!"), to do lots of damage. largely suicidal. good luck finding current VN 'military' online. i suspect that such specific training would only be conducted, once well into a real war.

I was in 317 eng bn when it was disbanded on Kelly hill, ft Benning. The unit was folded into 2/69 armored. That was 2004 I believe.

@TheBizziniss that was my first unit that left a great impression on me, and aside the 44th Eng Bn in Korea (also long gone) no other unit was as battle ready as those two.

You can if your a combat engineer. They can do both Sapper and Army Ranger school. You usually do Air assualt and Airborne too before these schools as well.

Sappers have a cook book. If they like you they might share some recipes.🎉

Does the ranger tab even help at all besides promotions?

18C instructor

Tracking

Yes

That’s because the school is mostly geared towards engineers.

And it’s a dieing school, the instructors to grade patrols in Sapper have to be Ranger tabbed.

It was not a reconized tab or DOD school back then, but it was fun as hell.

@@brett76544 you went thru it??? what years??? I remember when an NCO first mentioned it and I was like ... what the hell is that??? can I go???

@@Vato-Psyko-Loko it was CSM Karon was at the 8th, 94 or so. no tab on uniform, but no DOD school status. It was more hands on. Even after it started as a DOD school nothing for past grads.

You can do both in either direction. I was 12B Sapper tabbed and served with other Sappers who were also Ranger tabbed. My Sapper class was mostly 12B’s but also had a few Cav Scouts who were Ranger tabbed. Sapper and Ranger are technically open to all MOS. Good luck making the cut if you aren’t prepared.

"Rancher school used to be one of the most respected courses offered in the military until they lowered the standards to accomodate women" Yeah man, I heard those Black Angus bulls are terrors. 😀

@@elevenb6967 normally id call it a typo bc i hate phone keyboards but i was drunk af when i commented...

@@rustyshaklefurd4700 I was just giving you shit. But yeah, women going to RS is pretty much insignificant, if they're lowering the standards just for them. We know when we see them, what the real deal is.

@@elevenb6967 also to clarify i dont blame women in any way, the school or any course for that matter should be open to all that can hack it. However across the board we are seeing a decline in military standards, a good example is airborne school at ft moore. Its insane how they have lowered the bar to pass more students

@@rustyshaklefurd4700 😫Ugh