Not if you consider how many relatives of the miners that died in the bombing of the Nut survived and how many knew or figured out Gale was responsible for orchestrating it. Especially if some of those people went on to become peacekeepers in the future if Plutarch kept to the old system, I could easily see Gale getting assassinated.
I heard a Different one for Foxface, where she killed herself because she knew she couldn't win. She would've had to get REEEEALy lucky to kill Cato or Thresh, she was not going to Win against Katniss so she just decided to take herself out not to die in suffering or in a horrible way
This is my go to. They "changed" the rules and her district mate was dead. At the time she would have to beat Cato and Thresh and then beat Katniss and Peta. If she made it obvious she ended herself her family would be in danger. Her family can't be punished for her accidentally eating the wrong berries. Plus Katniss told Peta he would be dead in a minute so it's quick and maybe painless.
I think it’s a mix of the two, knowing she couldn’t win, then piecing together at the same time that most victors are miserable. She probably realized it was a lose lose situation (albeit maybe not to the full extent as to why, rather a gut feeling)
@@bibbo3167 I heard one by Story Diver that goes and I quote: Foxface killed herself and made it look like suicide because she was afraid of what might happen if a tribute blatantly killed themselves so she staged it to make it look like a accident that she ate the night lock that Katniss and Peeta were planning on eating themselves
Yeh I never really bought into this theory. The fact she was stalking Katniss and Peeta and stole berries that he picked first, and Peeta had deemed safe, it doesn’t make sense why she would assume they would kill her. The movie makes it seem like she has knowledge of plants and berries, but in the book she clearly doesn’t cos she relied on stealing from others
Let's also remember that fear is a really big motivator too and like others have said, the rule change and not just fear of dying horribly but fear of what else could be coming, what other changes or horrors might come...she ended her life on her own terms. Movie or books we know there is no way she would confuse the NL berries as safe... by her own choice she prevented her family facing repercussions, and had as painless a death as possible. She was able to rebel in a way, which is beautiful
The child labour theory is confirmed canon, there's reference in the books to other districts using children in their industries which can give them some advantage when it comes to the games (i.e. Rue having the skill of climbing trees from working in the orchards). I think it also makes sense that the Quarter Quell arena was engineered for Finnick. Plutarch would want to play to Finnick's strengths as one of the rebels' strongest allies.
My thought about child labor is that 12 only seems to be an outlier because the nature of their primary industry. We do see children working in other jobs, just not the mine. My guess is the only reason they don't have children in the mine is to ensure there is enough of a population to restaff after catastrophic accidents that could potentially wipe out most of the miners all at once.
@@Lespritdelescali Katniss even learned to hunt to survive something her father taught her so she was luckier than most people in District 12-a district known for starving children and other stuff
My crazy theory comes at the end as Katniss and Gale are ascending upon the capital. We all know that district 13 was a week ahead of their team. I think the peacekeepers that snatched Gale, were sent there by Coin to grab him to separate him from Katniss. That way Katniss could go alone and hopefully get blown up and watch her sister die. Either way it would be a win for Coin as Katniss would either be a mental wreck or she would’ve been blown up trying to save her sister.. Gale and Coin were like minded in war… odds are she knew she could use him to help her get elected. After all… he is the “cousin” to the Mockingjay… people might listen to him rallying for Coin to be president
About the quarter quell arena, I always thought the arena was also made with lots of water because ‘this is no place for a girl on fire’. Hence showing Katniss the capitol wants her dead (which until you find out Plutarch leads the rebellion is the image the capitol tries to show the public but also Katniss, and Snow of course has to think this too). I do like the fan theory, it makes perfect sense if Plutarch would think: it kills two birds with one stone. It shows the capitol does not want a girl on fire, and gives Finnick the ability to guard and protect Katniss since it is his are(n)a of expertise. Ps love your channel Morgan! Mostly the hunger games and Harry Potter vids are always such a good watch
something that adds to the maude ivory theory is that Lucy gray only performed the song once, and it was said that maude ivory only needed to hear a song once to remember the entirety of it
Yes but Lucy Gray made the song and maybe, Idk if this is how genetics work, Katniss got the gift from Lucy Gray’s cousin and Lucy Gray taught her son or daughter the Hanging Tree, I said “Son and daughter,” because it is more likely that Katniss is Lucy Gray’s grand daughter, I am supporting the theory but I am just saying. Sorry I made this so long lol.
My own theories: All the 75th games victors were chosen specifically, either to erase shady things Snow had done (Finnick and likely both 1s), remind Districts that their favourites could still be killed (2s), remove dangerous ones that could cause rebellion (Katniss and Peeta, Johanna, Beetee), or just to improve the image of the games (Annie and Wiress, who both offer a negative portrayal of the games due to their obvious mental scars, though Annie never ended up in the games due to Mags) The Capital are unaware of the state of the Districts. Because all of their interactions with the Districts are through the tributes and victors, who are constantly dressed in fancy clothes and paraded around looking as pretty as possible, the Capital Citizens are given a view of the Districts as much better off then the actually are, as a way to exert further control by giving the appearance of benevolence from Snow. Haymitch's name was rigged to be called in the 75th. Because Haymitch needed to be outside of the arena for the rebellion to work, and he needed Katniss to trust and like him so he could keep her alive, and had promised to volunteer for Peeta, Haymitch was able to ensure that both names in the bowl were his own, or that Effie was instructed to pick him specifically, because Haymitch knew Peeta would volunteer. Had Cato won, the rebellion would probably have happened (this is more of a fanfic). I think that Cato came to a realisation about the horror of the games, and I think that he decided they needed to be stopped as he worked out what they were doing. Had he won, I imagine a Career who removed himself from the Capital glory would be a powerful image the rebellion would want to use and Snow would want to destroy, leading to the same events but with Cato in the Mockingjay role. Caesar was allowed to live after the rebellion. Though he was a key instrument against the rebellion in terms of propaganda, Caesar was also one of the few people from the Capital who was nice to any of the tributes, and I imagine he was able to talk his way into surviving along with some victors vouching for him.
I thought it was canon that Caesar was likely saved by the surviving Victors given he did all he could to help them in the games. Katniss says he does so during the interviewed during book 1.
I wanna seea video about all the potential ideas for what the original 75th Hunger Games Quarter Quell was meant to be, since we know it was changed so that Katniss would end up back into the arena. One of my personal theories is that the tributes would be reaped from any living family members of the victors within their respective district.
I personally think that a few of these (especially the Foxface one) are probably canon. However, heres my take on the rigged Reaping theory: I do think that Prim was intentionally reaped because of the fact that Katniss was illegally hunting animals and the Peacekeepers weren't doing anything to stop her. As a result, Prim was meant as a message to Katniss and Gale (and others who hunt etc). Katniss volunteering wasn't planned, but wasn't hated. An extra bit of punishment for Katniss. Either let her sister die or walk towards death herself. As for Peeta, I'd suggest that it was random, but potentially since hes among the wealthier in the district, he may have been reaped as a reminder to those in the power that even they are under the Capital's thumb. To an extent, I do think current events influence the Reaping, and the fact the Capital want interesting tributes to put on a show.
10:20 I don’t think Katniss’ father was training her to be a Hunger Games Tribute, rather training her for a rebellion he knew was gonna come and maybe (he) had a part in
The worst one was the one about the revolutionary War being won by the British and then destroying Georgia... sounds like it was written by a bad AI program. The ones i like are that Maude Ivory is Katniss's grandmother, and that Finnick's games were what finally turned Tigris to the rebellion's side. I'm also kind of open to the "Lucy Gray is Greasy Sae" story line... she knew how to fish and forage. The covey went to the lake often. She could have possibly laid low in the woods, surviving with the help of the covey bringing her supplies as needed, until things cooled down. There were also rumors of people living in the woods "up north" which could have meant district 13, or it could have meant other small settlements that weren't noticed by the capitol. Just people in small groups, flying under the radar so to speak. Maybe she made it to some other village or encampment or whatever. Let's not forget, the covey was a band of travelers before they got rounded up into district 12. After she was older, and didn't look the same, and/or maybe once the mayor had died, she would have been able to go back... if no one recognized her, or if no one was looking for her anymore. I think it might be possible.
I feel foxface did commit suicide but not because of the capital after word. But instead because she spent three weeks living being hunted and knew she didn't have a real chance against katniss and peeta, or the last career. She knew if she didn't confront anyone the capital would make her death a spectacle to encourage people from being cowards. So she saw an opportunity and took the easiest death. She for sure knew what berries to ignore
I'm 100% for Maurd Ivory is Katniss's grandmother on her father's side. The book didn't mention that Lucy Grey and Snow had a coitus, but it would've been interesting. I also believed there's a possibility that Lucy Grey escaped to District 13, met someone, and had President Coin.
I think that Maude Ivory (Lucy’s sister or cousin i can’t exactly remember) is Katniss’s grandmother, her father’s mother. She could have taught her father about the woods, hunting, the cabin etc. Katniss and her father probably never discussed his family after they were dead because of the nature of their relationship. I don’t know makes a lot of sense if you look into specific details. I think it’s fun to think about it this way, also that’s how the songs got passed on, from Lucy/ the covey to Maude Ivory and then her father who taught her the songs like the hanging tree.
About the “Lucy Gray is Coin’s mother”, I think that something they left out was how Coin knew how to get in Snow’s head with mockingjays, and Katniss (who obviously reminds him of Lucy Gray).
I can see Tigress having a protective side for teenage boys, since that was as old as Snow got before she started to hate him. She didn’t seem to see his slow progression into evil the way the reader does, or that he has signs that he had hints of selfishness and manipulation in the beginning, seeing him as her sweet little cousin until it became obvious that he was evil. So maybe she saw Coreo and President Snow almost as different people. So the man she came to hate was sexualizing and abusing young boys like the one she used to love. (He’s very much the same person, but without the benefit of mind reading, it could seem like he changed beyond recognition.) And it made her just want to get rid of that thing that used to be her cousin.
9:04 yesss bc when she was in training she was doing plants and berries...so this one I think is most likely she knew the capitol would hurt her family if she killed herself...but she knew that she wouldn't be able to kill the rest of tribune
Honestly, before this video I have never thought about it before. But the way Collins adds all the easter eggs into the prequel, the katniss, the Hanging Tree song, ... It would actually be annoying if that would NOT be to point out that Katniss is Snow's granddaughter. Because then it'd be just so ...random. And sure, district 12 is probably a lot bigger than we see on screen and in the books - but both the prequel and the original trilogy take place in the outskirts where the woods and the borders are near. That already reduces the number of people living in that area a bit and heightens the chances. So ... I kinda like that theory. (It'd only be sad that neither knew about it. If that theory were true, I would have loved to see the reveal maybe some time shortly before his death - and maybe Katniss and Snow's other granddaughter getting together to each come to terms with their granddad having a side to his character that the other didn't know.)
Also on the theory of Lucy gray became Greasy Sae, that is impossible because they have to take your blood in order to stand by the justice building for the reaping. They would take her blood during the quarter quell and see that it is Lucy. No matter how much she aged or any modifications. Her blood would be the same.
Do they take everyone blood. I thought they only took the blood of the people who might be tributes. It’s been a while since I’ve read the book but in the first movie Kat is tells prim they have take a finger prick and so it seems like prim hasn’t experienced before which makes me believe it’s only the eligible kids that have to do it.
@@blakekavenyI’m not sure, however with how strict the quarter quell is they would probably take everyone’s blood because of precautionary stuff. Then again, Snow might not because he doesn’t want people to know about Lucy gray. They could, they couldn’t.
One of my theories is that Lucy is Katniss grandmother after Lucy runs away from snow in the woods she falls in love with another man later she finds out that she pregnant with Katniss dad this would make sense because Katniss dad has dark hair and dark eyes like Lucy this would also make sense because Katniss does the same bow that Lucy does in hunger games song ballad of songbirds and snakes it must have been passed down through Lucy, and Katniss dad, then finally Katniss, Lucy and Katniss do look a lot alike with their brown hair and also brown eyes, it wouldn’t make sense if Katniss mom is Lucy daughter since she has blonde hair and Lucy has dark hair, this theory might not make sense but in my head it does! (Please don’t come for me I haven’t read the books)
I think fox faces death was accidental because when she sees the night lock berries, she doesn’t think about her plant training in the capital which she felt was easy through. She thinks of her dad telling her not to eat them. Plus the plant thing that fox face does is only in the movie not the book.
I feel like Lucy could have been related to Katniss' dad, although Snow likely wouldn't have been the father, maybe just some other guy she fell in love with later on. Bc it was Katniss' dad who taught her The Hanging Tree, which was originally sang by Lucy (I think). It would also explain why Katniss' dad knew so much about the woods, the edible plants, and even why he would have chosen the name Katniss, as in the movie (haven't read the book yet), we see that Lucy hung out near that lake that Katniss & her dad went to a lot. We also see a scene where Lucy is talking to someone about the Katniss plant, which would be otherwise irrelevant. We also know that Katniss was taught to swim by her dad, which wasn't a common skill in 12. Lucy also knew how to swim, so had she been Katniss' grandmother, she likely would have taught Katniss' father to swim, as well. When it comes to last names, Katniss' father probably inherited his father's last name. Another reason Lucy could be Katniss' grandmother is because of some of the similarities between their personalities. Both are rather rebellious, quick to help others, when possible, clever, and tend to be against violence to the innocent (although most people would be against that). It really could be true. Maybe Dawn of The Reaping will reveal more about that theory
I think Katniss is a descendent of Lucy Grey because of one reason: the finger prick. Why do they take blood samples from them at the reaping? If identifying them is so important, why is it only done right before the games and not when they are born or start school or any other time before they turn 12, especially considering only 1 girl and one boy are to be selected? There doesn't look to be any sort of blood samples being taken at the 10th games. Technology has advanced so much that by the 75 games, the tributes who are picked have trackers put in them and these trackers are so sophisticated they know when the tributes are dead. Not only that its highly televised so someone knows where the tributes are in the arena at all times. They don't care about them having any health issues or conditions since most will die any way so why else would they need a blood sample? I think Snow found a way to convince people they needed to take blood samples of all the tributes so that he had a way to see if Lucy Grey or anyone related to her popped up in any of the districts. The one year that both Katniss and Primm are eligible is the year that Primm is selected and I dont think that is by coincidence. I think it was to guarantee one of them went to the games either by being selected or because the other volunteered.
I think another reason I don’t really but the theory that Cinna bought Katniss is because Katniss and Peeta were sold to the public as these star crossed lovers, so I feel either people wouldn’t be interested for that purpose or it would be bad for Snow’s image if it got out he was forcing the beloved couple into something so horrible.
That revolutionary war one is so bad their own evidence doesn’t even line up with the history of the colonies before the war. At the time of the Revolutionary War westward expansion had not reached the Rockies from a British/colonial perspective. The fact that snow’s title is president and not emperor or king also would point to a post apocalyptic US not British Empire. That might be the worst theory of any series I’ve ever heard.
7:17 this one really fun to think, but the capital thinking she is dead, because if you are running away from the district and they find you, you are dead. So even if she could have been going to district 12 back, they wouldn’t let her stay alive.
11 being a career district at the 10th hunger games makes a lot of sense as 11 in agriculture and the country and capitol was just starving during the dark days and still recovering so it makes sense that 11 would be a richer district that the capitol wanted to ensure stayed on it's side.
As far as her dad I don’t think he trained for set purpose but he knew about the games. He maybe just wanted to give her a chance just in case she ever got called
My commentary on these that I posted to the HG sub: In regards to the theory about Lucy Gray and Snow being Katniss's grandparents, they couldn't be the parents of her father, because he has the last name Everdeen. So they would have to be the parents of her mother. I could see Foxface committing suicide in the movies, not in the books, because in the movie Katniss says, "She was clever." And Peeta says, "Too clever." In the books though I can't see it. Katniss says nothing that alludes to it, so no. Although, in the book they are told by a training instructor to not eat any berries you're unsure of unless you're 100 percent sure they're not toxic. I would imagine Foxface would have paid attention to everything the instructors had to say. But then again she didn't have to do the identifyable plants station in the books. Also, she was starving by the time she found the berries, so even if she did j~ar the warning she was too desperate from hunger to remember or care about it. The revolutionary war theory... what??? That person literally contradicted themselves, and I agree with the person reacting to these that they had never read the books or watched the movies. Just... I have no words for that one. Just... no. The rest of the world doesn't care about Panem? No. In my headcannon the rest of the world does not exist. District 13 was behind the bombing of the hospital? Absolutely not. Why would they bomb innocent people for no real reason other than to weed out the weak? If they wanted to do that, they should just kill everyone but themselves and they shouldn't have let the starving traumatized people from 12 in. Also, they wanted to stop Katniss from interveening because she would thwart their plan? Um, no. They wanted to stop Katniss from interveening because, hmm, let me think, she was the Mockingjay? The entire symbol and face of the revolution? And they didn't want their Mockingjay getting hurt or killed? Especially when not all the districts were on board with the rebellion yet. Again, just no. Prim and Peeta's reaping was done on purpose, no. Katniss was a nobody.Also, how could anyone know that Peeta loved Katniss before the interview?I do like the theory that Maud Ivory is Katniss's grandmother. That would be really cute, and it would tie everything together so neatly. I could also get behind the theory that Lucy Gray is Katniss's grandmother. I hate unanswered questions and I love when things that don't seem to have anything to do with each other, like BSS and the original HG trillogy, get connected like that. Reading Mockingjay I thought Tigres WAS in on the rebellion. Otherwise, why would she be friends with Cressida, a rebel, even after she learned that Cressida was a rebel, and why would she house enemies of the Capitol, including the literal face of the revolution? And why would she be so happy that Katniss is going to kill her cousin? I also like that seeing what happened to Finnick after his Games turned her more against Snow. I didn't even think of that. I wish we got a book from her perspective from after BSS up until the end of Mockingjay. I would especially be interested to see what her perspective is when Cressida and them come into her store. I agree 100 percent with the reactor's thoughts on the Snow was a Gamemaker for the first QQ theory.
It's very unlikely that Foxface would commit suicide. Especially in the books. She was very smart and keen on survival. She would've known the games were half the battle from the start. In the books she eats some of the goat cheese Katniss and Peeta have before eating the berries and dying. If she really planned on dying, she would've left their supplies alone. She would not have wanted to make winning harder for them since she definitely wouldn't have wanted Cato to win. I think it's clear it was an accident.
The berries that killed Foxface were native to the outside of district 12, which is why Peeta didn't recognize them, so it's unlikely that Foxface knew
The rigged names pool theory is SOOO close to being perfect so here are my personal adjustments and opinions. Prim's name was the only name in the bowl would be interesting if ALL names in the lower districts are preset for entertainment purposes as rue and thresh are very similar to prim and peeta. it would be in the capitols interest to "cast" specifically for the hunger games. having two districts having 12-year-old female tribute that have no chance at survival paired with a strong male tribute would've made a great side story. They maybe even already had the storyline prepared of "two tributes can win if they are from the same district" if peeta and prim or rue and thresh survived long enough. The Gamemakers are well established to be rigging almost every aspect of the games, so I feel it would not be a stretch to say they would have MULTIPLE storylines prepared to make the games as entertaining as possible. This also explains Snow's immense disdain toward Seneca. Seneca strays from the planned narrative. With having to adjust to Katniss volunteering, Seneca inadvertently changed the planned story of the hunger games by giving Katniss a high score and drawing attention to her. It's not his fault the story of the century begins to unfold.
I like the theory that Lucy is katniss grandmother. But not having Snow as the father. There are so many ties between katniss and Lucy. District 12. Their singing. Lucy digging katniss tubers and also the knowledge of the hanging tree song and “deep in the meadow.” At least we must accept that Lucy must be alive. But it doesn’t seem coincidence that Suzanne keeps trying to make us think of Katniss as we read about Lucy. Imagine that snow has no idea until katniss sings the song for the first time on camera. It just adds to his thirst to kill her and all those with her in the last hunger games.
I have one theory about girls from district 8 and when katniss Didn’t see them in 13. Snow had cameras in house by lake since he was previously there with Lucy he knew about the place. He got them killed or pick them up and made avoxes just because they talked to her. I know Katniss used it before with father but what if snow recognised katnisses fathers mother or father from times when he was peace keeper and just let them be and later when katniss went there with father they didn’t do anything threatening to capitol.
Ok I understand this but with the aging theories where they travel to district 13 it’s entirely underground with no sunlight witch means slower aging but with all the other districts they were exposed to all the elements where 13 was limited just in case one of these could possibly be true
The revolutionary war theory is just horrible, I agree with Morgan that the person who wrote that theory didn’t read any of the books or watch any of the movies. They probably just saw The Hunger Games on RU-vid and made that theory
I think that he didnt "plan" on her being in the games but I think he was hedging his bets. Like he knows they are poor and he knows he has a dangerous job so the likelihood of katniss being in the hunger games was high if something happened to him especially. So yeah he was teaching her to survive... In life and in the hunger games if needed.
I dislike the lucy and snow are her grandparents. Firstly if lucy did survive, she would not be able to return to 12 because she would be killed. It is much more likely, and the author actually suggests it as well, that another member of the covey is her Grandparent. Maude Ivory is explicitly said to have the ability to perfectly remember a song after hearing it This means she would be able to pass the hanging tree down. She would also know about the secret Lake. It is likely she was Katniss's father's mum making her Katniss's grandmother. Another one I don't like is Lucy Grey is Alma Coin. Lucy Grey loved colour, Music and Nature. There would be no reason for her to suddenly have them removed in essence removing what made her personality shine. It would make more sense for her to build a place that is full of colour, music and laughter. It make more sense that Alma was born in District 13 to a couple that lived there already.
I’ve always been a big fan of the foxface theory, I even thought it was canon like you said. Just makes sense to me that she’d realize she stood no chance and would be doomed even if she did win
The thresh theory can’t be true because in the movie, you can hear him screaming when he is attacked by the mutts which is how he is killed as we would’ve seen a lightning strike. In the books, when Katnids and Peeta are rewatching the games after their victory with Caesar, there is a line that says something like,”Careers kill Rue, Thresh kills Clove, Cato kills Thresh, I kill Cato” in the perspective of Katniss which shows that he could not have been struck by lightning as they would’ve seen it in the rewatch
You can tell you haven't read these....Katniss realized Gale's trap(the mountian thing) led to her sister, Prim's, death. I wouldn't want to see him either. Her mother moved to District 8 at the end of the last book. Please do read the books, they provide much needed context.
The way that we would KNOW if Snow and Lucy Gray did the deed is reason enough to know that Katniss isn't related to Snow. Coriolanus freaked out so much when Lucy Gray even brushed her hand on his, we would KNOW if they did anything more than kiss
History teacher here to pick apart the Rev War theory. 1. The Capitol is in the Rocky Mountains, namely around Utah and Wyoming, far away from Georgia. 2. District 13 is in the northeast US and Quebec, also far from Georgia. 3. Georgia is part of District 11. While it wasn't the most prosperous it was still a chunk of change. Think getting 90 bucks instead of 100.
Suzanne Collins should make it canon that Foxface committed suicide, and she should DEFINITELY make it canon that Maude Ivory is Katniss's grandmother.
Was I the only one who assumed Thresh was killed by the mutts? We never see his death and in the movie (not sure about the book) we heard him scream and the canon very shortly after the mutts were released.
I believe Lucy Grey is the mother of Alma Coin and Lucy's cousin is the grandmother to Katniss making Coin and Katniss Cousins and I will believe this until stated otherwise
I think Lucy Gray had a daughter (not with Snow they are long separated after he went crazy and she escaped from him) and she named that Daughter Katniss that Daughter has a daughter who ends up being Katniss Everdeens mum and Katniss is named after her Grandmother Lucy and the name Katniss are linked because when she is handed a root she says she called it a Katniss so Lucy and the name Katniss are linked somehow it’s too coincidental for Lucy Gray and Katniss Everdeen to not be related somehow and the name got passed down to her
Lucy has the Vocie talent of Katniss' Dad and appearance. She wouldn't be her Great Grandmother on her Mum's side and plus Katniss' mother grew up in the rich part of 12.
22:31 also if you listen to some of the voice acting of Maud ivory it dose sound like she might have a slight speach impediment and would tie into what katnsis said she got her name from
The issue with the whole fox face taking her own life is that it's stated that the nightlock is native to District 12. My only issue with District 13 bombing district 8 is in the movie its made to look like the capital bombed 8 but at the same time that's just the movie
I mean, this is a world hundreds of years after a climate-induced apocalyptic series of disasters. It makes sense that some current technology (plus some landmasses and communities). So no AI. I wouldn't be surprised if many other surviving civilizations had contact but not travel with the capitol and governing body of Panem, but the people of Panem (thus Katniss too) wouldn't have any knowledge as it could be classified information. Or maybe the surviving ones aren't as technologically advanced to be on Panem's radar. Or didn't care to know deal with them at all, considering them barbarians somehow. Several of this could be true at once
I think the worst is by far Coin=Lucy Gray. I agree with almost all of the Super Carlin Bros theories, but the theories that try and connect Lucy Gray to Katniss are silly.
The “Lucy Gray is Alma Coin” theory is the one I go absolutely ballistic on cause I HATE that theory so much (it is by far my least favorite Hunger Games theory). 😤 Lucy Gray is free spirited, is very expressive and loves color, music, and nature! She expresses herself through her wardrobe and her music/songwriting (which she states that she sings when she has something to say--like an insert for Suzanne Collins herself where she's said that she only writes when she has something important to say). There's no way she would give that up and live a soulless life. She wouldn't be caught wearing those ugly gray suits! Coin is overly plain in order to preserve equality and she doesn’t believe in the little joys of life if they aren’t necessary. District 13 is so industrial and rigid. Lucy Gray is probably the most colorful and vibrant character in the series. She would just give up her music, her songs, her color wardrobe to establish some war bunker, militaristic, drab society? She would want 13 to be the one normal place where people do things like singing, dancing, allowing people to express themselves however they want and not have it be some drab. Also, for her to go down the path of revenge and advocate for a symbolic Hunger Games using Capitol children (as well as all of the other atrocities Coin commits), that would be her going against her own beliefs on humanity and abandoning her philosophy. She states, "I think there is a natural goodness born into us all. No, really. You can either cross that line into evil, or not and it's our life's work to stay on the right side of that line." She would never want another Games for anyone and not want them to go through what she and the other tributes did during their time in the Capitol and during the Games. Mathematical wise, it's impossible. Lucy Gray is 16 during Ballad when the 10th Hunger Games takes place. Katniss states that Coin is somewhere around her 50s (she seems like anywhere from 50-55 within that range). It's 65 years in between Ballad and Mockingjay, so if Lucy Gray was around during the trilogy, she would be 81 years old (16+65), so a good 25-30 years older than Coin (and no, don't be using the "plastic surgery" excuse) I also don't really like nor can buy Lucy Gray being Alma Coin's mother. It's not as awful as the "Lucy Gray is Alma Coin" theory, but I still don't like it and don't believe in that whatsoever. I just CANNOT see Lucy Gray raising a child who would ever turn out like Coin did and especially when it comes to her cold, cruel, narcissistic nature (and no way would Lucy Gray ever ingrain the idea of advocating for a Games using Capitol children as some form of revenge into her child). I would also think Lucy Gray would want to incorporate aspects of herself into her child like her music, her love for nature, and expressiveness. I don't want ANY kind of association between Lucy Gray and Coin. She's our vibrant and colorful songbird! 🕊💕 Don’t disrespect my girl like that. ❤
The ONLY way I can see it being plausible that Coin turns out the way she does if she’s LG’s daughter is if LG is killed in some horrific way by the Capitol. In that way, music and color and joy itself would be one big painful reminder to Coin of her mother, and seeing the Capitol slowly become more and more flamboyant like LG while her mother is dead could easily turn Coin bitter and hateful, hence calling for a symbolic Hunger Games for the capitol children - because her childhood/any good part of her life was stolen away by the Capitol, so she wants to do the exact same thing and perpetuate the cycle of abuse and violence.
Lucy and Snow can’t be Katniss‘s grandparents because the book is from Snow’s point of view, and if the two of them had ever been intimate, he probably wouldn’t shut up about it
@lady_stog the words I want to say will get me in trouble. So instead read my mind. In all reality though, there's no way there wouldn't be at least a hint to that in either the book or movie, like no way
I wouldn't be surprised if Katnis's father was raising her for the games, but not to send her in. If I were a parent in this world and could teach my kids survival skills, I absolutely would so if they get reaped, they have higher odds of making it out. I will say, I think he was teaching Katnis these skills with plans of running and/or so she could care for the family in his absence should something happen to him. I don't think he, realistically, had the games in mind at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he planned on starting a revolution, though, just not via putting his children in direct danger.
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Also the Foxface theory isn’t likely in the books. I think it’s only a movie thing. And I’ll explain why. Foxface is smart yeah, but she was never shown to be knowledgeable about plants at any point in the books. She’s in district 5 why would she be? She’s considered smart because she’s cunning and sneaky. Which is why the name Foxface suits her. Her entire strategy throughout the games is stealing stuff from other people, that’s all we see her do. She stays close to people and steals food in small sections so people don’t notice. She was living off of the careers pile of supplies until Katniss blew it up and she lost that source too. Katniss is the one who is the plant expert due to how she grew up, and she aced the plant section in training before the games and Katniss said that the nightlock berries are not mentioned in training at all. Katniss only knows what the berries are because she hunts illegally and they grow ok the outskirts of district 12, so her dad taught her. It’s very unlikely Foxface in her district had the same thing and have those berries grow around there. Foxface literally has no way to know what those berries are. Foxface not only just steals the berries but she steals Katniss and Peeta’s cheese that they had, if she’s just planning on killing herself then why bother stealing their cheese as well? Plus when she died, Katniss describes her body as emaciated so she was clearly starving and desperate for food. People really overestimate foxface as if she’s not also a kid who can make mistakes and that’s the point of what happens to her. She’s smart but she’s not smart in the way she can find her own food, she just knows how to be sneaky and that’s why she’s smart. Her death is about overestimating others can just be as dangerous as underestimating them. She is starving and couldn’t get food after Katniss blew up her main food source and then there was that rain storm, that would make it more difficult for her to find more food from others. When it finally stops, she manages to find Katniss and Peeta and trusts that the food they have is safe since for what she knows, they’re planning on eating it and she’s that hungry she’ll take it. Thats all it is. I know it’s just a movie theory, but I think making her this huge genius that can’t make mistakes takes some of the sadness away from the fact she’s still just a kid with one small misstep causing her death. The only basis people have for foxface ‘being good at identifying plants’ is that one scene they added into the movies with her playing that matching game, but that has absolutely nothing to do with identifying edible plants. It’s a matching game that’s based off of fast reflexes and patterns. Which is what her actual strength is, they just use plant images for the test but you wouldn’t be able to identify anything with those images.
I think a lot of people underestimate how painfull hunger can be. It's very likely Foxface didn't even looking twice before putting the berries in her mouth.
I think the theory that Lucy Gray and Snow are Katniss' grandparents is a bit far-fetched, but I'm sure someone from The Covey is the parent of Katniss' father. Like, only they knew about "The Hanging Tree" (in the book also people who were at the birthday of... the commenter, if I'm not mistaken), Maude Ivory, Barb Azure or Tam Amber may have sung it to Katniss's father, that's how he knew it. We also cannot forget about the lake, the existence of which few people knew about, including the members of The Covey and Spruce. So: Katniss' father's parent was Lucy Gray, Maude Ivory, Barb Azure, or Tam Amber.
To add on, this also help explains why her father trained her with the bow As the covey is said to have picked up tricks here and there to get by/scavengers. They also were probably the first group in 12 to piece that a rebellion was coming, as they saw the state of multiple districts and had a close relationship with Capital (snow) citizens
@@LunaiCarmenNot to mention, that big alarming clue that Maude Ivory can memorize any song/tune after listening to it only once, which Katniss also mentions that she has that same talent. That one especially is clearly there for a reason. 👀
I do think it is Maude Ivory. Lucy Gray at one point tells Snow, that Maude loves the katniss flower. This could be why her father later named her Katniss. Because his mother loved katniss so much.
It's gotta be either Lucy Gray, Tam Amber or Maude Ivory. If I'm remembering correctly, Barb Azure is gay. Tam Amber is a guy so it's possible he's Katniss' grandfather. But honestly, I think Maude Ivory is an Everdeen.
The theory that stated it took place in an universe where Britain won the revolutionary war gave it away. It made up a completely random origin of the Hugner Games that goes against canon.
@@davidfairweather3301to be fair, we don't know shit about foxface. Katniss just assumes it's an accident. But everything is from her perspective. Like she doesn't even know the girl's real name. Foxface could have known it was night lock. At the very least it's within the realm of possibility. The truth is, we actually don't know that definitively one way or the other.
@@AshleeKnowsNot You can draw conclusions based on the source material. Foxface’s strategy was stealing from other tributes which heavily implies that she couldn’t forage for herself. She was stalking Katniss and Peeta and she ate the night lock after Peeta had already picked them and he deemed them safe… if she knew so much about plants and berries, she wouldn’t have needed to stalk Katniss and Peeta and steal what they found, and if she really was trying to kill herself, she could’ve just found the berries herself.
@@davidfairweather3301 no like I get what you're saying. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it. But after reading ABOSAS it's clear Suzanne Collins does focus on unreliable narrators. We take Katniss's word as Gospel because she's the narrator but its possible she's wrong. Katniss, and therefore the reader, know little to nothing about Foxface and her motivation. So much so we literally don't even know her name. It does open up the possibility that Katniss misinterpreted the situation. Especially because she's particularly oblivious to other people and their motivations the majority of the time. Her conclusions make sense, but they could be wrong. We just don't know with 100% certainty because we were never in foxface's head or even saw her death scene. Just the body.
My own theory : The Quarter Quell is a fraud. 😮 I believe Snow or someone else implemented the idea of the Quarter Quell around the 25th anniversary. In Catching Fire, Katniss explains that the rules of each Quarter Quell were laid out at the very beginning of the Games. But I would find it really strange that Casca Highbottom, who was drunk when he wrote his ideas, may have thought of a special edition once each 25 years. That would explain why there is no mention at all of it during TBOSBAS. I believe there was nothing written from the beginning, and the president of the time would simply decide the twist when the time comes. Just like when it's implied that Snow might have changed the rules of the 75th Hunger Games to put an end to the Katniss (and possibly Johanna) threat. Maybe around the 25th Hunger Games, a new revolution was preparing, so the president announced a game where tributes will be picked by their own neighbours to create even more division and prevent a new revolution. But for the second one, I'm not sure. Maybe there was just too many children to feed at the time 😂 I hope that if a new book comes out in the future, it will be about the 1st Quarter Quell because it's the only one we didn't see.
That theory is really good. It would also explain why they decided to do something big for the 25th anniversary but not the 10th for example. You would think 10 years would be a big occasion, but they were both struggling for interest and probably saw no reason yet to make it a bigger deal. So it makes sense that the first big anniversary was the 25th because they decided they needed them now, instead of the round anniversaries
this theory is almost canon to me because there is no way they could have added the idea for the 3rd quarter quell from the beginning. first of all it is stupid because they couldn't have ensured that there would be at least one male and one female victor from each district. i mean, look at district 12. if katniss hadn't won in the 74th games, there would be no female victor from d12, so yeah i'm pretty sure that each president would just decide the theme of every quarter quell depending on the circumstances
A deleted scene in Catching Fire showed that the card for the 3rd Quell was replaced by Plutarch. Likely he told Snow he'd rig the Quell to get rid of cumbersome victors like Katniss for him (while his plan all along was to scoot her out of the arena and recruit her for the rebellion). While the scene was absent in the book due to it being from Katniss' POV, it makes sense for Suzanne Collins and the other writers involved in the screenplay for coming up with it since the movie isn't from her POV all the time. And I agree Casca Highbottom probably didn't come up with the twists for the Quells. However, I would not put it past the brilliant but evil mind of Dr. Volumnia Gaul for coming up with them as soon as the Games were established. Makes me wonder what the original twist for that Quell was supposed to be.
@@Abyrae In the book, Plutarch didn't know that victors would get involved in the Quell, if my memory is correct. The whole "save Katniss from the arena" was just a way to save her life. In the movies, the fact that he's the one to tell Snow to reap tributes among victors doesn't make sense. Why would he choose to put the life of so many allies or potential allies in threat ? Just in a sake of taking Katniss to District 13 ? Would have been much easier if he just had taken her from 12 rather than a whole complicated plan relying on people who could have died at any moment in an arena. If the Mockingjay wasn't forced to go to the arena again, Plutarch could have stayed a double-agent for the rebellion much longer. The rebellion could have been better prepeared, and the other victors such as Finnick, Johanna, Haymitch, Katniss and Peeta could have been warned discreetly without puting their life and the whole rebellion in danger. Plutarch and District 13 just did whatever they could in the short amount of time after the Quell was announced to make a plan.
My favorite theory is that Maude Ivory is Katniss' paternal grandmother, I dont think its too far fetched because they lived in the same area in the seam & while Im not sure if a beautiful signing voice is genetic, but if it is, it makes it all the more interesting if her dad is Maude Ivory's son. I also dont believe the Foxface theory simply becuase she was taking a reflex test during training, not plant identification. I do think she had knowledge about plants & was incredibly smart but Nightlock only grew around district 12, so the chances she knew what is was were slim. She might have read about it but thats still very unlikely as books arent super common in the districts. She had been stealing food from people during the entire games, I think it makes her death more fitting for the story if she died as an unknowing child, stealing food & hiding like a mouse, just furthering how tragic the games are.
The Thresh theory doesn’t make sense because Katniss eventually watched the 74th Games at the end of THG, and then in Mockingjay she brings up her killing Cato, Cato killing Thresh, and Thresh killing Clove. So she knew for sure and confirmed that it was Cato that killed Thresh
Maude Ivory being Katniss' Grandmother virtually feels Canon to me especially since the Hanging tree song was verrrry forbidden after LGB's first and only public performance, and we're told so many times how gifted Maude Ivory was with music, especially remembering songs. I have a theory about LGB's fate after she escaped snow, but wounded, involving Dr Gaul but will keep it to myself 😊
I like the hospital one, Maude Ivory and Snow being the head behind the 25th Hunger Games. Snow being behind the 25th Hunger Games is almost too perfect tbh 😂 And the arena of the 75th being made with Finnick in mind is my head cannon 😂
Ugh, I _really_ dislike theories that posits Katniss as a descendant of Lucy Grey. The original series already echoes a Chosen One storyline, but it's powerful because she's chosen by the people, not by a prophecy. Making her a descendant of Lucy Grey makes it seem like Katniss was fated to be in the Hunger Games, ie, was _actually_ a Chosen One. It just cheapens the story.
That’s where I think the idea that Maude Ivory is Katniss’ grandmother is far more realistic. It connects LGB and Katniss but removes the chosen one concept
something i really wish has happened in the first 3 books was that katniss found a insanely old bag of a peacekeeper’s rifle in the bottom of the lake, and no readers really noticed until they read the ballad of songbirds and snakes and it turns out it was literally snows bag
Gotta say, I don't think Prim was reaped randomly. But I don't think Katniss was supposed to volunteer for the plan. I think everyone was supposed to see Prim and Rue be sweet little friends and then get mowed down in a show of power because both of those districts were getting uppity and everyone takes the games as a metaphor, so of course the Capital is going to control the metaphor. And then her sister volunteered instead of just being sad on TV like she was supposed to and the rebellion said, "we can work with that."
