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Reaction, Doctor Who, 7x05, The Angels Take Manhattan, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S7Ep5 

Gallifrey Gals
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The beginning for the darkest times of the 11 Doctor. Is Paula ready for how the Ponds leave the show? Will she ever forgive Moffatt for this? This episode is very triggering, we don't take kindly to that sort of emotional manipulation. Bonus footage of an after episode scene P.S. available on Patreon.
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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Intro Song by: Pixel Pig by Di Young • Di Young - Pixel Pig
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18 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 844   
@scottredding7357
@scottredding7357 3 года назад
I think Amy/Rory had a great end. They didn’t get locked in a parallel world. They didn’t have to struggle a year against the Master, traveling the world. They didn’t get mind wiped. They got zapped into the past and got 40-50 years of marriage and a second child.
@edwinm6735
@edwinm6735 3 года назад
Thank you.
@petersvillage7447
@petersvillage7447 3 года назад
Quite right. Also, the 'shock' scene serves an important purpose - Amy *chooses* Rory, without hesitation, both confirming her love for her husband and... well, 'leaving' the Doctor. It's right and normal for a kid to choose their adult life rather than forever clinging to their imaginary friend/guardian/pseudo-parent, but that's not something the Doctor is good at accepting. I don't think the particular way that Amy's story ends is for shock anything like as much as it is for the culmination of her specific story.
@caitlin329
@caitlin329 3 года назад
If there's one style of companion exit I'd really like to see in NuWho, it's something like Tegan. I want someone to experience something traumatic, and rather than going 'oh it's just part of the adventure, let's move on', to actually decide 'no, I don't want to do this anymore, this is horrible'. It'd be a nice moment for reflection from the Doctor about how they live their life, too.
@StarkRG
@StarkRG 3 года назад
Yep, best possible result, if you ask me.
@otps8035
@otps8035 2 года назад
second child?!
@lawrencewestby9229
@lawrencewestby9229 3 года назад
I wish Paula would stop holding back and tell us what she really feels.
@KatAlysha
@KatAlysha 3 года назад
😂😂😂
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
hehehe
@passerbytanuki2456
@passerbytanuki2456 2 года назад
Yeah this emotional constipation isn't good for her 😂
@RayWillis-b7j
@RayWillis-b7j 9 месяцев назад
😂😂
@geoffmason7215
@geoffmason7215 3 года назад
leaving the Doctor and River was sad but growing old together and dying together was their happy ending
@StarkRG
@StarkRG 3 года назад
Best possible result, if you ask me.
@geoffmason7215
@geoffmason7215 3 года назад
@@StarkRG during power of three they had to decide between Doctor life and real life when they decided real life they worried about how to tell him because they knew he would be hurt..The angels gave them their decision in an unexpected way
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
The fact that Steven Moffat managed to get us care for Amy and Rory so much that we felt such burning anger for him during this episode, shows his talent as a writer. Just you wait, Paula, you'll love him again in less than 10 episodes, the best NweWho Doctor is coming!
@MrEvers
@MrEvers 3 года назад
In my head canon, an elderly Amy & Rory are there for Melody when she regenerates into "Mels" and eventually help her get to where she needs to be (cause there's still quite a gap between 1970 and Amy and Rory's youth) "You got to raise me after all"
@scottboswell6406
@scottboswell6406 3 года назад
They all were in NY, so that fits! Or maybe it was her adopted brother.
@kwanarchive
@kwanarchive 3 года назад
She was referring to child Amy and Rory raising her. Over the course of that episode, you can see they (especially Amy) were acting like her parents, even though they were the same physical age.
@MrEvers
@MrEvers 3 года назад
@@kwanarchive ...I knew she was, but that was written a whole season before the Ponds' exit. it's just headcanon, would be a nice timey-wimey bow around their timelines, and a "happy ending".
@caitlin329
@caitlin329 3 года назад
We knew Amy & Rory were leaving when watching, so there wasn't really a 'trick' in the same way. It was kind of toying with the audience because we all knew they were gonna go, just not how.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
very well said.
@caitlin329
@caitlin329 3 года назад
It still annoyed me, because I'm not a fan of that particular Moffat style of writing, but it definitely wasn't quite the same experience.
@firefly24601
@firefly24601 3 года назад
​@@caitlin329 Agreed on both counts. He relies on the emotionally manipulative fake-outs too much, I think. But he wasn't trying to trick people as much (back then) as it seems (now.)
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
I don't know if Katrina watched the show live or after the fact, but really, I feel she tricked Paula more than Moffat. As you said, the audience knew that these 5 episodes would be the last 5 episodes for them. To avoid spoilers Paula wasn't told, but it was pretty common knowledge for the fans at the time this was the plan, and that something was still going to go wrong after the paradox.
@Tantalus010
@Tantalus010 3 года назад
@@LODintheshadows When I saw it back during release, it was exactly the "everybody's all happy and fine," moment that Paula mentioned that made me go, "oh, here it comes."
@grelkie
@grelkie 3 года назад
Amy and Rory DID get to live happily after though :)
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
...and maybe they lived in a better world, too. Given the state of things these days, I sometimes wish I could be teleported to the past!
@kivimik
@kivimik 3 года назад
I believe Paula understands that, just not in the manner she would have preferred
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
@@ftumschk in World War 2? Are you sure?
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
@@atharvadeshpande6907 Well I wouldn't choose to be teleported back to that _particular_ time, but - even if I were - at least the war was over in six years. I could live with that. I just yearn for a time when society was nicer, whether a war was on or not. There's so much rudeness and nastiness around these days, it seems. Present company excepted, of course!
@michaellaux5915
@michaellaux5915 3 года назад
I don't think this was Moffat trying to be clever, when this aired in the UK at least everyone knew that this was Karen and Arthur's last episode with the show so I think Moffat is trying to give the episode stakes again by making the audience unsure how the episode is going to end, it tricks you into having some hope that maybe somehow its all okay. RTD actually does exactly the same thing with Tennant on a much smaller scale. I remember going into that episode knowing my favourite doctor was regenerating but when he says "I'm still alive" and you see the shock on Tennant face and the joy only for it to get ripped away really gives the emotional hit to the episode. Basically the practical issues of trying to keep secrets on this scale meant that this episode was written knowing that it had been spoiled for most the audience so it had to do more, that's probably why it's so annoying when you go into it without the ending being spoilt, because it was written with the expectation you already knew.
@NickLanng
@NickLanng 3 года назад
100% this
@mmattson8947
@mmattson8947 3 года назад
That's why I wasn't expecting this reaction, although in hindsight it is understandable. As someone who knew their departure was coming and can be jaded, I thought it was fine. But I can see that two people who didn't know the BBC announcements, who can get emotional over coffee commercials, would consider this heavy-handed.
@petersvillage7447
@petersvillage7447 3 года назад
I think he was just trying to tell a story, really. Across the fanscape in recent years it seems that ;people increasingly attribute personal motivations (usually implying faults in a person's character) to people who are basically just doing their jobs. It's perfectly fine not to like the particular way a person does their job, of course. I'd rather it wasn't personalised as often as it is though.
@tycol322
@tycol322 3 года назад
Paula saying "fuck you".... That hurts... Seeing our sweet innocent Paula hurt like that
@mjm3091
@mjm3091 3 года назад
Is she that sweet or innocent? She is a grown woman.
@tycol322
@tycol322 3 года назад
@@mjm3091 true but of the two she always had the more naive innocent vibe to me. Katrina always struck me as the one who would get you into trouble. The mischief maker. Granted I know I don't know that or them like that but it's the vibes I got from them so it's what I currently believe until otherwise
@voladisco
@voladisco 3 года назад
oof that's a creepy old man vibe fo sho
@dclore
@dclore 3 года назад
But life can be like that - you avoid catastrophe, feel happy and then it goes to shit again. For me it's actually more realistic.
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
fair point!
@cutthr0atjake
@cutthr0atjake 3 года назад
In the words of the British comedian Ken Dodd: "Smile and be happy, things could be worse! So you smile and you're happy and things do get worse."
@deadpolymers3416
@deadpolymers3416 3 года назад
It's only sad because Amy and Rory don't get to see the Doctor again. But if you look at the gravestones, they live to be 82 and 87... they lived a long and happy life together.
@shadout
@shadout 3 года назад
I think that the reason for the sadness is the other way around - that it was sad because it is the Doctor who doesn't get to see Rory and Amy anymore. They did have each other for a long life. But to him, they were the first companions that he would just turn up and have Christmas dinner with as a family. His attachment was deeper than past companions and for a while he was more than just a mad man and his box.
@KthulhuXxx
@KthulhuXxx 3 года назад
@@shadout Plus they are his mother and father-in-law. :P
@zarabada6125
@zarabada6125 3 года назад
I think more about their families. One day the pair disappear never to return. I know about the PS mini episode but that just adds another layer of sadness. The pair were together and led a good life but that doesn't remove the emotional consequences.
@Marpen1980-Live
@Marpen1980-Live 3 года назад
I actually love this episode, because of the emotional roller-coaster. That is what makes it so great. That's what make Moffat such a great writer.
@hichaelmartline
@hichaelmartline 3 года назад
River's love for the Doctor shines in that final graveyard scene. River loses both of her parents, at the exact same time. However she never lets her eyes off the angel. She allows the Doctor to blacken his own eyes, forcibly blinking, in an attempt for himself to get pulled back through time to possibly save Amy & Rory. But she let's him have that moment despite the fact that it should be her who feels that intense emotion.
@KatAlysha
@KatAlysha 3 года назад
WOAH. I have never caught that and that is such a BRILLIANT OBSERVATION 😭❤
@TheAppeyes
@TheAppeyes 3 года назад
The issue with reactions is that you stay away from spoilers and weren't around when things like companions or doctors leaving were all over the news. Back in 2012, everyone knew this was their last episode and what you call "Moffatt manipulating you and thinking he's so smart" was more of a "waiting for it to happen" because we all knew this was it. The show is written with what the general public know in mind, back during Tennant's run there was a fake-out regeneration and a fake "next" doctor because at the time there were rumours (and later confirmation) that Tennant would be leaving.
@IloveTashaGhouri
@IloveTashaGhouri 2 года назад
But she didn't watch it back then and didn't know leave her alone
@SWTobito0702
@SWTobito0702 2 года назад
@@IloveTashaGhouri Which also means she isn't part of what was the target audience when the episode aired originally. The target audience was aware and Moffat knew that as well. You can't fault the episode for playing to its audience just as you can't fault her for not knowing beforehand.
@cymraegpunk1420
@cymraegpunk1420 2 года назад
@@IloveTashaGhouri what do you mean leave her alone? It's not a mean spirted comment, it's just explaining why the show is written how it is at this point
@turntsnaco824
@turntsnaco824 Год назад
EXACTLY. This seems so obvious to me, even if you weren't around at the time, that her reaction seemed so extreme with that context, and I literally thought she was just being facetious at first. Like "ooo, Moffat thinks he's so smart tricking me like that, oooo, it makes me so mayud!!!!" And as she kept going and didn't change tone at all, I eventually realized ".....oh.....she's completely serious".
@stevebills5716
@stevebills5716 3 года назад
Wow. I thought the only glaring weakness of the episode was the complete daftness of the Statue of Liberty. I thought the rest was the normal brilliance of a clever Steven Moffatt story. But as you say we're all different and it's fascinating to see such a passionate different reaction.
@catwhowalksbyhimself
@catwhowalksbyhimself 3 года назад
Yeah, the Liberty thing was just plain goofy. It makes no sense.
@FDGRonin
@FDGRonin 3 года назад
Absolutely agree.
@markc4008
@markc4008 3 года назад
@@catwhowalksbyhimself Why? The very first episode the Angels appear in ends with a montage of a ton of different statues. I think that in this episode the point is the Angels have become so powerful they can start taking over any statues they want.
@catwhowalksbyhimself
@catwhowalksbyhimself 3 года назад
@@markc4008 That was more or less a gimmick. The angels don't take over statues. That isn't how they work. They don't change shape. They merely turn into stone, but they stay the same. It's even a plot point that the degraded angels in an earlier episode look nothing like statues that belong on that planet because they dont' take over statues.
@markc4008
@markc4008 3 года назад
@@catwhowalksbyhimself ​ Whether you consider it a gimmick or not it was in the episode and set up their later appearance as different statues. I'm afraid... you don't get to decide how they work. As for the other episode you mention... that really isn't a plot point. There is zero mention of an inability to take over other statues. There were simply no statues there in the first place, and the Doctor and others simply assumed the Angels were statues put there by the Aplans. Whenever the Angels had a story, their lore was built on. Nothing that was added ever contradicted what came before, but especially in the case of taking over other statues was already, previously, set up.
@Uatu-the-Watcher
@Uatu-the-Watcher 3 года назад
There is a chance Moffat wasn’t being malicious.
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
He wasn't. At the time of release, everyone new Amy and Rory were leaving mid season and this was supposed to be the mid season finale. Also, she should really have guessed due to the foreshadowing in The Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and the Power of Three, and especially the chapter name: Amelia's Last Farewell
@Xanderj89
@Xanderj89 8 месяцев назад
intent really isn't a factor, you can be abusive/manipulative without meaning to. The impact gaslighting has on autonomy has to do with the mismatch in expectations and reality, convincing someone that their lived experience is not real. The reason you have a desire to fuck with them isn't actually involved in their anxiety response to being controlled, that's something they can only consider after the nervous system reaction, so it only serves to shame them into further gaslighting themselves that it didn't happen or that the other person meaning well means they have no responsibility in the matter
@Bauernpart
@Bauernpart 3 года назад
I think Moffat tricked us in a very nice way in this episode. Like the doctor said 'If you read it, it's going to happen'. And we read the gravestone, the doctor read the chapter-titles. What do you think was gonna happen after this? I don't think river would trick the doctor that hard by writing this book and the title like that, just to push him. So Amelia's last farewell had to be there for a reason, right? i really like the Moffat-era, even more than Russel t. Davis. Both are brilliant, but I think Moffat has this little bit of spice for every episode where you don't know, if there a happy end till you watch it. I really really love it.
@evek9043
@evek9043 3 года назад
I actually really liked this episode and liked how this one was made, I wasn’t mad at it at all and I like how Moffat writes
@zartig09
@zartig09 3 года назад
I enjoy the episode as a whole. The Statue of Liberty is kinda silly, but it’s fun. And I like the fakeout death, but maybe the difference is me and many others knew it was their final episode. That likely makes a big difference in the viewing.
@iz723
@iz723 3 года назад
Same, I liked this ending for them.
@mjm3091
@mjm3091 3 года назад
I mean I liked the unexpected mid season send off.
@KthulhuXxx
@KthulhuXxx 3 года назад
@@zartig09 I didn't necessarily know it was their last episode, but I did know that [REDACTED] was taking over the companion role at some point. So I was surprised (I thought it would end up being at least 2-3 episodes further into the series), but I wasn't quite as bitter as Paula. And Eleven-Amy-Rory is my favorite TARDIS team to date (including any of the classic series that I've seen).
@zartig09
@zartig09 3 года назад
@@KthulhuXxx Definitely my favourite Tardis team too. I somehow knew it was their final episodes, but did not know who the next companion was. So my reaction to the episode with the next companion was probably different to most peoples. Admittedly episodes should be made so that you can watch them with as little to as much knowledge about the ongoing with the show and still enjoy them. You should be able to enjoy this episode and the future episodes with or without knowledge of the companions leaving and I’m now thinking this one doesn’t really strike the right balance entirely.
@KthulhuXxx
@KthulhuXxx 3 года назад
I'll disagree in that I think that RTD was MASSIVELY more emotionally manipulative than Moffat. A perfect example is the last episode for 10...at one point he says that regeneration isn't just changing form, than he will actually die and another man will walk around calling himself the Doctor. This directly contradicts 10's FIRST episode (also under RTD's watch) where he spends the entire episode convincing Rose that he's the same man as 9, just with a different face. (And it also contradicts the entire classic series, but RTD's era had very very few allusions to the classic series outside of Sarah Jane Smith.)
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
@@Atothetheist well the idea that rtd was more emotionally manipulative is undeniably true.
@markc4008
@markc4008 3 года назад
@@Atothetheist I mean... RTD's the one who decided his rather popular Doctor's last words should be "I don't want to go" right before someone else takes over...
@markc4008
@markc4008 3 года назад
@@Atothetheist No it's actually worse, I'm afraid. It's literally making people feel like their favorite character should have had more time on the show, and immediately puts people in a more negative position for the start of a new Doctor. Regardless of how different it may be from what Moffat does, it's still emotionally manipulating. Rather than making it a happy time celebrating the incarnation like he did with Nine, or Moffat did with Eleven and Twelve... with Ten RTD decided that your last memory of him should be that he didn't get enough time and that it's been stolen from him and from you.
@markc4008
@markc4008 3 года назад
@@Atothetheist Yeah probably. Absolutely nobody was upset by the fact Ten didn't want to die seconds before he died. His words, by the way. Died.
@scifijunky1979
@scifijunky1979 3 года назад
This is the first negative reaction I’ve seen on RU-vid regarding this episode, who knew it was going to be Paula. I for one loved how the Pond’s story ended, never felt emotionally manipulated by Moffat. And I too am an emotional person. Moffat story telling is very memorable, it was beautiful how Amy’s fairytale story with her raggedy Doctor ended, but then again entertainment is subjective.
@thabraineater
@thabraineater 3 года назад
But if you watched like me on tv when it got released, then we already knew that a new companion was coming and these first 5 were the swang song for Amy and Rory.
@turntsnaco824
@turntsnaco824 Год назад
​@@thabraineater That's the thing, it's not like he did this JUST to be a twat. Their time on the show was coming to an end. They literally had to be written off, and he sent them out with a bang. Better that than just like some uneventful "and they lived happily ever after" crap. The new companion had to start next episode so he made sure their story was over in time for it. I really don't see the issue. I feel like she's looking at it purely from a standpoint of Moffat having complete control over what does and doesn't happen in the show, and not taking enough into consideration the other variables at play. It's not like he's just writing a book, it's so much trickier than that; he literally has to wrangle a lot of things including how many hours or days or episodes he gets to shoot with any given actor or actress, and factor all of that into every single detail he writes into the show. All things considered, I think he did a pretty good job for most of it.
@voladisco
@voladisco 3 года назад
I remember despising the show for like a week afterwards and I didn't really get back into until the 50th, but Capaldi is definitely worth sticking around for...
@ianpark1805
@ianpark1805 3 года назад
Oh yes indeed...magisterial!
@jamesstewart6623
@jamesstewart6623 3 года назад
100%......He had some cheesy moments but he's up there as one of the greatest Doctor's there has been
@gwinnellheald8592
@gwinnellheald8592 3 года назад
Definetly! 12 is the best!
@MarieAnne.
@MarieAnne. 3 года назад
Matt Smith is also worth sticking around for. He still has some great episodes ahead.
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
The First second of Eternity will have passed!
@drewm5335
@drewm5335 3 года назад
Paula RTD literally did the exact same thing when Tennant regenerated by having him say 'I'm still alive' then have it ripped from him with Wilfred. I personally liked the double whammy because it makes there loss even more tragic by being given false hope like with tennant my heart dropped when I originally heard the 4 knocks. I do understand that it wasn't a 5 to 10 second false hope like tennants one. that it was dragged out and personally i think it should have happened a little quicker
@joshuaoehler5796
@joshuaoehler5796 3 года назад
Exactly. Moffat's style may not be to your taste, but it's effective. You may not like the rollercoaster, but it still works on you. It makes you feel things. Tennant's last scenes felt way more manipulative to me because the situation with Wilt felt so much more artificial, like RTD was sitting just off camera, writing the scenes as they happened with no forethought, no foreshadowing. Of course, this situation with Amy and Rory was also artificial (it's fiction, after all), but it was built up throughout the story, throughout the series to this point. Built up, but not given away. You're meant to feel the way the characters feel, the way the Doctor feels. It's a gut punch as much for us as for the characters, and it is meant to be. You may not like it, but the dude knows what he's doing. Proof is in the pudding. It works.
@willbaker6532
@willbaker6532 3 года назад
The difference is that moment literally lasted for about 3 seconds and even if you just watched the show and had no context about tennant leaving or anything you wouldn't necessarily believe that it was all OK and happy. Also its just the point of how the series did it over and over. But with tennants regeneration we knew it was coming, the odd had said it was coming etc etc
@corndog4848
@corndog4848 2 года назад
@@willbaker6532 they also did a fake out regeneration that went into a hand, so…
@IloveTashaGhouri
@IloveTashaGhouri 2 года назад
But they did a fake one with David let her vent
@Nazhussain07
@Nazhussain07 Год назад
4 knocks thing was kinda obvious though. They were building up to his death from the start of season 4 and it was the final episode.
@EForrest88
@EForrest88 3 года назад
Of course the big difference for Paula is that at time of broadcast everyone KNEW going into it that this was their last episode and had known for months, it was just a question of how rather than when. Moffat is actually a strong advocate for the audience being far smarter than they're usually treated. And as said above, their leaving was 100% expected and discussed as part of the series' promotional tours, interviews and such. This is one of the issues with watching shows in retrospect, you loose all the wider context. I mean, Doctor Who is such a highly regarded show that leading cast members always make appearances on Britains most-watched evening chat shows - so even people with no interest in the show would have known Karen & Arthur were leaving.
@StarkRG
@StarkRG 3 года назад
I don't remember knowing it was this episode, we definitely knew it was this season, though.
@lagnok
@lagnok 3 года назад
"Respect the characters and let them have their story" i dont get that bit - this was their story....
@Cowmoo83
@Cowmoo83 3 года назад
Agreed - The reality is that traveling with the Doctor is dangerous and the situation can go from safe to deadly in a snap (or a blink...). Bryan told them to travel with the Doctor despite knowing this (“some-not many- but some of them die”). He weighed the situation and thought they should risk it and give up their regular lives for the chance to be with the Doctor. I didn’t necessarily see this stop and go of being on the TARDIS as being emotional manipulation but rather Moffat showing how difficult it is to manage life as time travelers. That said, Rory did die and come back to life waayyyy too many times... I’m glad I saw your reaction, though - I’ve never seen anyone react with so much anger toward this episode, so it’s nice to be aware that’s how some people feel about it. I really enjoyed hearing both your perspectives!
@craigburkey269
@craigburkey269 3 года назад
For me I love Moffat, I like the way I care about the episodes in a way I never felt with RTD. Saying that I watched this as it was originally aired so I knew going in it was Amys last episode in the UK these last 5 shows were billed as their swan song
@Tantalus010
@Tantalus010 3 года назад
Same. I liked RTD's era, but I never really cared much about the companions as characters. When it was their time to go, I was always, "eh, whatever," about it - it was never sad to me. Moffat actually made me care about the companions. I actually cried when Amy and Rory left because they mattered.
@mjm3091
@mjm3091 3 года назад
For me it's quite opposite - I mean I do love Moffat era the most, but I actually do not like Amy or Rory at all. Donna and Wilfred were the peak, with Clara and the rest being slightly behind. But I much more cared for Wilfred, than for another reused idea by Chibnail - Brian. And cared much more for Donna than for Williams.
@craigburkey269
@craigburkey269 3 года назад
@@mjm3091 I like Donna of all the RTD era Season 4 was my favourite of that era, I just connect more with Moffats style, Empty Child/Doctor Dances, Girl In The Fireplace, Blink, Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead were my favs even then
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
@@mjm3091 you could at least get the name right man... Wilfred!
@mjm3091
@mjm3091 3 года назад
@@atharvadeshpande6907 lol I don't know from where the Wulfric came out, yes I was talking about Wilfred. xD
@Nemophilist850
@Nemophilist850 3 года назад
This is a weird take. You're kinda attributing motives to Moffat that aren't really evident in what is on screen.
@brandiboyd4181
@brandiboyd4181 3 года назад
Sorry I can't agree with Paula. Obviously she's allowed to feel the way she does, I just don't agree. Doctor Who never made me feel emotionally manipulated, it just made feel emotional. I don't have a strong reaction to most shows. I enjoy them, but as an observer. Moffat always made me feel a part of the story and feel something, which I really loved. But I understand there are differing opinions.
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
completely valid!
@brandiboyd4181
@brandiboyd4181 3 года назад
@@PaulaDeming So is yours! I’ve always believed that it’s fun to discuss mass media. It can be fun to debate a point and try and get another person to see your point of view, but ultimately, it’s entertainment. And entertainment is subjective. I can say that because I never felt manipulated, and other reactions I’ve watched didn’t use that word; it hadn’t really occurred to me that anyone would view it that way. So I had to think about if I felt that way. And while I don’t, there are other popular TV shows where I’d never said it in those words, but that was exactly how I felt (Walking Dead I’m looking at you!). Anyway, it gave me another descriptive tool to put in my toolbox, so thanks for that.
@AHoyHere0111
@AHoyHere0111 3 года назад
No matter whether you like the episode or not, I do like a story that makes you feel SOMETHING. Moffat's writing definitely elicits an emotional response. Rather that over watching a show where I'm looking at my watch or not engaged.
@hallyhop
@hallyhop 3 года назад
Absolutely, I totally agree
@thegentleartoffisticuffs6983
@thegentleartoffisticuffs6983 2 года назад
Looking at you, Chibnall
@SeanS102
@SeanS102 3 года назад
I mean, I want to be manipulated by television, that's the point
@miadavies1575
@miadavies1575 3 года назад
True
@petersvillage7447
@petersvillage7447 3 года назад
My first thought was that every time we feel an emotion about somebody who never t existed, we've been manipulated by definition. However, if I think about it, I regard certain kinds of manipulation as inferior to others - for example, in a horror film any director can make an audience jump by having something appear suddenly and go 'boo' - and these jump scares are often derided because they don't take any effort or subtlety. They're cheap and don't spring from the story, whereas a really great scary film works at creating a mood, makes you frightened of what *might* jump out. Perhaps, then, seeming to save Amy & Rory only to then lose them could look like cheap manipulation. I'm not persuaded of that since there was no shock value in their departure - actually, the shock was, very briefly, that it seemed that they *weren't* going to leave after all. Besides, the 'saved, but then lost' narrative device is a basic mechanism of tragedy - things have to be achingly close to a happy ending for a sad ending to be really tragic.
@Wannabe_Baby
@Wannabe_Baby 3 года назад
I don't feel emotionally manipulated at all, nor do I feel like Moffat was treating the audience like idiots. I don't see how you could even reach that conclusion. Just assuming that he thinks he was being clever really put me off this reaction, not unlike how judgmental you were of Mickey, describing him as "patriarchal" when Rose treated him like shit. In fact, I found both Rose's exit ("this is the day I die"), Donna's memory loss ("the most loyal companion will die") and Ten's regeneration, where he assumed he'd be fine before the four knocks happened, were all FAR more emotionally manipulative and more of a bait-and-switch than this was.
@theAkildare
@theAkildare 3 года назад
And next the animated Ending of this Episode that wasn´t filmed
@StarkRG
@StarkRG 3 года назад
Patreon exclusive, unfortunately.
@jewelled0
@jewelled0 3 года назад
This is the most unique reaction to this episode I’ve ever seen. I think for those of us who knew they were only going to be in five episodes this season when it aired. It hit me hard because I was going to miss them. But I knew it was coming. Moffat is by far my favorite. But I don’t think you’re wrong. Great reaction.
@ScotchBeard78
@ScotchBeard78 3 года назад
I don't understand hating the emotional rollercoaster of it. It's a fast paced adventurous show where people's fortunes can flip on a dime, and you guys LOVE to cry and be emotional in your reactions. It's part of what makes watching your channel so satisfying. I love the Moffat era, and I think in terms of storytelling and emotional melodrama, he out-delivers RTD (who I also enjoy). Every time a companion exits the show, it's got to gut you on some level or it doesn't really honor the adventure they've been through. I'm bummed if Paula hates Moffat because I think seasons 8 & 9 are some the best of NuWho in terms of emotional Doctor/Companion arcs, much more mature and murky than ever before. Stay strong, Paula! We'll all stories in the end.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
yes agreed 8 and 9 are moffat showing a great side of his writing and reaching a new level as a writer just in a different way to how he wrote for smith.
@KatAlysha
@KatAlysha 3 года назад
Don't you worry, Paula didn't actually give up on the show. She just needed to feel what she was feeling to get through it ❤
@christianwise637
@christianwise637 3 года назад
@@KatAlysha Fair enough, we all need to vent our emotions sometimes
@ScotchBeard78
@ScotchBeard78 3 года назад
@@KatAlysha Woo-hoo! You guys rock. I feel like with Doctor Who AND with TNG, you're just starting my favorite run of seasons on each. Looking forward to it. :)
@brom00
@brom00 3 года назад
Look out Moffat. Paula has you in her sights. I've never seen her so ready to throw something or someone.
@firefly24601
@firefly24601 3 года назад
When she took off her jumper I was alike "UH OHHHHHHH... it's about to get real!" :D
@christianwise637
@christianwise637 3 года назад
How long will it be before she challenges him in a duel to the death for playing around with her emotions one too many times?
@cargo71
@cargo71 3 года назад
@@christianwise637 I don´t recommend his backyard. He has weeping guards...
@cargo71
@cargo71 3 года назад
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DHe1CmJJ4lw.html
@kwanarchive
@kwanarchive 3 года назад
"And you've just been to... Manhattan. What planet is that?"
@lorien42
@lorien42 3 года назад
Moffat’s time as showrunner is my favorite time in Modern Who, so I may be a bit biased. I love everything about this episode. Even Angel liberty. I agree with many of the other comments that talk about it being a different experience watching it as it aired because it was like a game of when they were going because you already knew it was definite. So it was fun not manipulative then. I can see how on a watch without the definitive info that it could be taken otherwise but I don’t personally get the vitriol. That being said everyone is different and it is your reaction, and despite how pissed off you were it was entertaining for your audience. Don’t stop the show please.
@KatAlysha
@KatAlysha 3 года назад
We would never actually stop ❤
@SeanS102
@SeanS102 3 года назад
The Statue of Liberty gets the rule of cool pass, it's just too irresistible to not do, and exactly the kind of daft silly nonsense that is Doctor Who's bread and butter.
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
@@SeanS102 exactly what Moffat said. How do you not do it, you set an angel story in New York, and you have to do it. You can't not. I'm ready to give him the pass.
@lorien42
@lorien42 3 года назад
Side note: last time I was in NYC (prepandemic) I accidentally spent some time hanging out at the building that was CGI’d into Winter Quay. Fun stuff when I realized.
@lorien42
@lorien42 3 года назад
@@KatAlysha also thank you very much for taking the time to respond directly!
@JustJames83
@JustJames83 3 года назад
I feel like Moffat is going to get another strongly worded letter from Paula 😬😥
@Longshanks1690
@Longshanks1690 3 года назад
The “problem,” per se, with Paula’s reaction is that she thinks this was released like a normal series when everyone else knows that was not the case as it was split into two parts with a Christmas special breaking them up and several months in between each one. Watching it live, I knew this was going to be Amy and Rory’s final episode and that a new companion was coming, so I have never felt emotionally manipulated because my expectations were always reasonably grounded and Brian telling them to go off beforehand underscores the tragedy of the whole thing. If you’re being deliberately shielded from information about the show to prevent spoilers, then I can understand why you’d have this kind of reaction, but since I knew what was going to be the ending, I didn’t feel manipulated at all, but for reactors, that’s a hard bridge to navigate as the episode was written with certain expectations in mind, but for a reactor, that could just be considered pure spoilers if told up front, so then episodes like this come off as worse than they were originally intended because of how they are perceived by the audience in question.
@TheAppeyes
@TheAppeyes 3 года назад
This happens with a lot of Doctor Who reactions. In the real world, it's announced months in advance when a companion or a doctor is leaving, so the live audience knows when their last episode will be. Reactors watching years later obviously not knowing can cause reactions like this because they want to stay away from all spoilers. I've seen several reactions to Matt Smith's last episode where the reactor didn't know until the regeneration scene that he was leaving.
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
this is a really good point, thank you for sharing it!
@caitlin329
@caitlin329 3 года назад
Yeah, we even knew who the new companion was going to be portrayed by before the series started.
@firefly24601
@firefly24601 3 года назад
"Just you wait until my husband gets home...." :D
@dcaslick
@dcaslick 3 года назад
I get being upset, but being angry specifically at Moffat for telling his story the way he wanted seems so off base to me. You’re not alone in feeling this way to be sure. I’ve seen it plenty of times before from people, but it never makes any more sense to me. Blaming a writer for writing the way they write will never makes sense to me.
@iaincollins5743
@iaincollins5743 3 года назад
Writer don't always get everything the way they want it. Especially writing for a huge global thing like the BBC was becoming at that point in time.
@ericmicke4130
@ericmicke4130 3 года назад
I get it. Especially if you notice things over and over and dont always end up thinking that writing choice was the best for the story. Then you get to a moment that's really working and did its job and then its ruined (in certain opinions) by an unnecessary choice that feels unearned or inconsistent with where the story felt naturally it was going. For me I never took any of the previous episodes to mean anything other than leading to something big and probably sad. When the paradox saved everything i was ready to be disappointed that they made me feel like i was saying goodbye to these characters only to be like "just kidding everything is fine loser why you crying?" So i was moved emotionally but ultimately satisfied with that rug being pulled out. Like finally consequences and something big happening and sticking and really meaning something. But if it felt to some that the natural direction was a different ending then yeah you're going to be annoyed that a writer just does the same thing they always do.
@britblue
@britblue 3 года назад
it's a sign of both good acting & writing that it can "move" you emotianlly. I get your your p*ssed off!, but how many shows can generate this level of involvement & commitment to the characters!
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
That's a great way of putting it.
@ozzyp97
@ozzyp97 3 года назад
There's also such a thing as trying too hard, and Moffat seems especially prone to it. You shouldn't write to extract the maximum quantity of emotions, that's not how you create a genuine moment.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
@@ozzyp97 but it is a genuine moment ? it makes a statement about the characters and who they are and how far they have come AND is a sad tearjerker departure. what is trying too hard?
@Cowmoo83
@Cowmoo83 3 года назад
@@ozzyp97 What is a genuine moment to a time traveler, though? The Doctor sees this kind of thing happen to side characters on a daily basis. Eventually it was going to be his companions’ turn. I guess I just don’t see this as any less genuine than other companion departures, personally. Take Rose. There’s the moment she gets transported to the parallel universe against her will, separating her from the Doctor. Sadness. But then she gets back! Not sad! It seems like everything’s going great and the day is going to be saved, but then something goes wrong and Rose is sucked thru to the parallel universe again. Sadness ensues as she pounds at the wall, knowing she can’t return. The Doctor frowns with deep sadness at the same wall. After a small break from the emotion, he’s able to project himself to Bad Wolf Bay for more sadness and a final send-off, kind of like Amy’s letter but with the roles of companion and Doctor reversed. I found both moments to be equally as genuine myself because they’re both tragedies that could reasonably befall time travelers. I’m not sure what the difference is.
@SeanS102
@SeanS102 3 года назад
Right, television is meant to make you feel.
@TheMarioAdams
@TheMarioAdams 3 года назад
Why do you hate Steven Moffat because of this? I thought it was a pretty clever and genius play on emotions for a showrunner to do
@caitlin329
@caitlin329 3 года назад
He does it all the time. So often that honestly it makes you a bit detached from it all in the end. The problem with Moffat writing is that he thinks he's clever by doing fake outs and 'gotchas', but in reality what's enjoyable is the characters and the story. He sometimes ends up getting way too lost in trying to be a 'genius' that he managed to ruin one of his shows and really struggle in the other for a while.
@TheMarioAdams
@TheMarioAdams 3 года назад
@@caitlin329 to each their owm
@LightLMN
@LightLMN 3 года назад
@@caitlin329 Yeah. I'm a huge, *huge* Moffat fan, but he's not perfect and this episode in particular is highly flawed. I don't agree with the fans that think he got powermad or something. I think it's simpler and more disapointing than that: It stems from his origins as a comedy writer, and the best and absolute worst of his writing is grounded in that origin. Setup, setup, subversion/punchline. The pattern of many great jokes and stories, a pattern that Moffat really struggled to break away from.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
@@caitlin329 but amys departure is entirely about her as a character? its like the ultimate statement of who she has matured to become. moffat rarely abandons story and character. also gatiss is more to blame for sherlock if u look at who did what.
@christianwise637
@christianwise637 3 года назад
@@caitlin329 I agree fully with this. Thankfully he would get somewhat better once we get into Peter Capaldi's era (and I for one am *definitely* looking forward to Paula's reaction to those episodes), but even then there would be points where his worst traits as a writer would rear their head again
@Sam-mi9wi
@Sam-mi9wi 3 года назад
No matter how much you hate the Moffat era, I guarantee you will feel nostalgic as hell and wish for him back, when you get to the Chibnall era. At least Moffat understands Doctor Who, Chibnall has no clue what he's doing and it shows.
@grelkie
@grelkie 3 года назад
Yeah :/
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
I actually preferred Steven Moffat's era to Russell's, so I'd _really_ like to see him back, if only to write one or two episodes. As you say, he understands Doctor Who.
@caitlin329
@caitlin329 3 года назад
@@ftumschk Wow you have a very different experience of Doctor Who to me. Moffat didn't feel like he 'got' it much at all -he actually really changed it a lot more than most other showrunners bar maybe RTD (although that's purely from modernisation tbh)
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
@@caitlin329 the capaldi era is very much getting it. it is the doctor in ultimate. the perfect exam into the doctor and why he is such a good character. moffat got it better than anyone.
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
@@caitlin329 I'm someone who lived through and loved the Philip Hinchcliffe era and preferred its complex, dark stories to the ones that preceded it, and most of those that followed. I see Moffat very much in the Hinchcliffe mould and RTD more like Barry Letts - another superb producer, but IMHO Hinchcliffe took things to another level. Ironically, I see Chris Chibnall as more like John Nathan-Turner, whose era Chibnall heavily criticised at the time.
@davedove67
@davedove67 3 года назад
Paula needs to watch "P.S." to get a little bit of closure.
@kivimik
@kivimik 3 года назад
And the Doctor Who lockdown Rory's Story.
@atharvadeshpande6907
@atharvadeshpande6907 3 года назад
They did, read the description
@pauld6967
@pauld6967 3 года назад
The "tell the little girl a story..." bit pligs what many considered a plot hole with Matt Smith's first episode. The "how can Amy have crude, hand-made, but properly representative, toys reflecting adventures she and the Doctor "had" when he was missing from her life all those years.
@petersvillage7447
@petersvillage7447 3 года назад
Yeah, people seem to miss this - that in The Eleventh Hour we see the same moment of Amelia sitting in daylight, hearing the TARDIS arrive that we see at the end of this episode. In The Eleventh Hour it's presented so that it looks like it's a dream that Amy's having about something that never happened - but only at the very end do we discover that the Doctor came back that morning and told her about all these adventures she's going to have one day - so she's always remembered him doing that. Plus, it creates a beautiful and unseen final meeting when the Doctor goes back to little Amelia and tells her about her future, when he knows it's the last time he's going to see her, as the little girl he first met...
@shadaxe
@shadaxe 3 года назад
This episode broke me up and does it over and over again. Now I recognized that Paula feels a little played with at the end but Amy and Rory each have their own character arcs to conclude. Rory began as the lovable loser who Paula herself felt wasn't good enough for Amy and didn't have a shot. The conclusion of his arc is pretty much him standing on the building ledge saying "To save you, I could do anything". Rory has pretty much-reached super-hero status. Amy's arc concludes with her once and for all caught in a situation where she has to choose between staying with the Doctor or choosing to take her chances with Rory. There is no doubt in her decision and she chooses Rory. I find it interesting that The Doctor is filmed in the background as her decision is made. He looks small and weak and upset beyond belief. He has gone from being confident and all-knowing to a man with no control over the situation, begging her to stay. The Doctor and Rory have changed places. The ending of the episode is upsetting for sure but it also made for an absolutely unforgettable ending for Amy and Rory. For those moments on top of the building, this is literally the Amy and Rory show. I'll contrast this to Donna's ending where she is forced to forget everything she is and everything she has done. She'll live the rest of her life as a shadow of what she once was.
@lawrencewestby9229
@lawrencewestby9229 3 года назад
Mild spoiler ... I think Moffat needed to do it this way in order to have the Doctor react the way he did when he lost both Amy and Rory.
@corndoghead1
@corndoghead1 3 года назад
here we go ... damn, Paula is pissed.
@noeffortrandomness3182
@noeffortrandomness3182 3 года назад
Now Paula needs to see ps & rorys story from doctor who lockdown, we had a year to cope so a break is fine
@LightLMN
@LightLMN 3 года назад
Absolutely this! Rory's Story and P.s. are must-watches.
@TheBreadthatcausedLesMis
@TheBreadthatcausedLesMis 3 года назад
P.S was reacted to and you can see her reaction to it on Patreon currently
@mconnaghan
@mconnaghan 3 года назад
Congrats on coming up on 5 years, K!
@murkeyhollow
@murkeyhollow 3 года назад
Congratulations on your sobriety Katrina. Very proud of you
@angiecellist05
@angiecellist05 3 года назад
I'm definitely going to cry. I cried at the end of the last video when Katrina looked in the camera. I'm scared
@Thoroughmas
@Thoroughmas 3 года назад
Successful emotional manipulation is exactly what I want. Finally some consequences here, and I thought a fitting end for Amy and Rory. I never have issues with a jokey moment coming directly before a serious one. Surprised you weren't into the tragedy of this
@WotFanar
@WotFanar 3 года назад
So I AM a big Moffat fan, in fact shortly after season 7 ended I was invited to his house for a chat and an interview (he has a life size weeping angel in his garden which scares the hell out of me. ) I find your views interesting as I am a much more plot fan and so throughout your series have been learning a new appreciation for some episodes through your eyes. Thank you for shearing your thoughts and feelings I value them all the more as I don't share the same experience. I do empathize though, I don't feel it here as much but it did annoy me when greys anatomy regularly do the same thing only they spend many episodes setting up an nice happy ending and then kill them in the final episode. For me the reason I guess this episode is less drastic is that in the press we knew this was the characters last episode so how they left was a mystery to be solved to me that meant I enjoyed the twists. I have also watched certain scifi movies and shows though not morning with everyone else as my brain is try to work out which of the three ways they could bring that character back are they going for and only after it's all done go , ohhh that was supposed to be the end. anyway hope you enjoyed my perspective as much as I enjoy yours. Also well done Katrina on 5 years (I'm hoppeing you made it) this has been an intense year, I myself have been trusting a lot so i feel your should get a double poker chip or something, I think a custom staking plastic miniature would be the board game component upgrade for poker chips I'm not sure for AA.
@miadavies1575
@miadavies1575 3 года назад
That’s the point of a show though... to do things you don’t expect, otherwise what’s the point of watching a show if you can expect what’s gonna happen
@paulmurray8926
@paulmurray8926 3 года назад
I'm more surprised Rory didn't get more of an ending. I know he had the letter he sent to his dad. But in the episode itself, it was mainly Amy getting a departure. And I noticed when Amy and Rory jump off the roof, the doctor only calls out for Amy.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
thats what the rooftop scene was for
@paulmurray8926
@paulmurray8926 3 года назад
@@dutchman8887 Yeah I guess so. Still seems The doctor didn't care for Rory as much though.
@w67M
@w67M 3 года назад
I watched this episode back when it originally aired. IIRC, we knew at the time that Karen and Arthur were leaving and this episode was framed as the mid-season finale. Given all that, it was kind of obvious they weren't going to make it out and the final scene played a lot differently for me than it did for Paula. It didn't feel like emotional manipulation so much as it felt like slowly ratcheting up the tension. You KNEW something had to go wrong, but the characters didn't. So, for me, it didn't feel disrespectful. But, I can definitely see how jarring it would feel to have this come out of nowhere.
@MarieAnne.
@MarieAnne. 3 года назад
Paula wasn't even this angry at Donna's ending, which is bizarre. Rory and Amy ARE happy. (Remember the woman in "Blink' who was sent to the past? She was happy). Paula: _"Tell me a story that makes me care because of what's happening in the story."_ Wait a few seasons.
@jereico7587
@jereico7587 3 года назад
I was expecting tears, not anger. It still makes me cry watching it now.
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
Same here. To that extent, I actually _appreciated_ having my emotions manipulated.
@mjm3091
@mjm3091 3 года назад
(un)Fun detail - River was the one who had to blink to transport Amy back in time. Imagine a kid having to do it, for their parents.
@tomski120
@tomski120 3 года назад
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think Paula
@Gareth79
@Gareth79 3 года назад
This has really grown on me over the years. There are so many pieces in this that echo throughout the eleventh doctor’s arc and tie into future episodes. On a rewatch, after some time and more episodes, you can see past Moffats cleverness and watch the acting. The actors’ emotions so echo their characters, and because of this, it has become a favorite, especially if you need a good cry!
@iaincollins5743
@iaincollins5743 3 года назад
Not everything is Stevens fault. Breaking up is very hard to do sometimes. Matt and Alex both understood way better than I did how we'd be better just moving on without extending Karen and Arthurs involvement. And while there's a lot to be said for a clean break, we do whatever we can sometimes to keep things together. hindsight is often a hard lesson. This is as close as I can get to apologies, by the way. Some people apparently still hate me for what happened with Serenity, too. Don't even get me started on how to go back after, especially when you won't be invited, just expected to be there to fix whatever your replacement has messed with.... I refuse to feel guilty for not running towards that. But inevitably I'm drawn by some inexplicable force...
@keithalanbaker535
@keithalanbaker535 3 года назад
Please don't stop watching Doctor Who as I said before that is the only reason I subscribe to this channel. And considering the nature of the TV show Amy and Rory were not going to be around forever. And the rest of season 7 includes some of the best episodes of Doctor Who ever.
@nikelmaharjan6755
@nikelmaharjan6755 3 года назад
I hope they stick till season 9. Season 9 is the best season of newwho. Not a single weak episode beside sleep no more, but i like that too. Season 8 is hit and miss, too many weak episodes
@crappiefisher1331
@crappiefisher1331 3 года назад
damn, i have never seen anyone jump to the second stage of grief that quickly....
@TheScreamingMime
@TheScreamingMime 3 года назад
Getting past this episode just means we're closer to some of my favorites.
@AmazingChi
@AmazingChi 3 года назад
It's worth noting that Episode 3 and 4 were swapped over, so Town Called Mercy was supposed to be the buffer between Power of Three and Angels Take Manhattan (it's very noticeable since they reference the Henry VIII thing that happens in Power of Three in A Town Called Mercy). I really don't know why they did it. I think it might be to do with the Berkoff issues taking extra time to fix. The Rory's Dad episodes should be back-to-back. Brian's send off leading directly into this wasn't 'Moffat being Moffat'. Also, as others said, this was a Mid-season finale, so we were expecting *something* when it was live airing.
@teacherjoedeveto
@teacherjoedeveto 3 года назад
Similar to an earlier commenter, TV shows don't elicit much emotion from me. So, I appreciate Moffat's stories more than any other Dr. Who writer. Maybe I need such "tricks" in order to feel things. But isn't all writing a sort of 'magic trick'? Using squiggly lines on paper to create emotions out of thin air? To create the illusion that a totally made up story is, or could be, real? That's pretty amazing when you think about it. Of course, it is only because we can have such different reactions that this type of reaction video is worth watching! (But I cannot feel good about Paula's pain. I hope she'll continue being Wibbly Wobbly for us!)
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
don't worry, I'm not going anywhere!
@kryten1016
@kryten1016 3 года назад
A crack eating on a young child’s life bleeding into her head She asked Santa for a police mans help But sent a doctor instead The child was once alone blue But so did fall something old and new He mended the cracks but the repair had a limit so the phone box called And he said I’ll be back in five minutes
@cammybaby01
@cammybaby01 3 года назад
"Am I gonna cry".....wow, the title alone reminds me and brings up tears.
@little-wytch
@little-wytch Год назад
Don't worry, Paula, you're not the only one that's wanted to rant at Moffat many times. It hurts so much because it's an emotional blender of good and bad and he's so damn good at doing that to us.
@eva44940
@eva44940 3 года назад
wow, that escalated quickly. i love this episode, the writing, the performances! and how the story is told. ive never seen it as manipulation. when they come back to the graveyard and are "too happy" its purposefully telling the audience that something is off, its too "easy" and the Dr. is missing something cause he doesnt even want to think of the possibility of losing Amy. At the time my only problem with the ep. was trying to figure out why the Dr. couldnt go back to get Amy (e.g. to NJ, or to 1939) but once you figure that out i really like it
@tdog790
@tdog790 3 года назад
tbh I rather be emotionally manipulated (moffat era) than bored (rest of the writers in charge before & after moffat ).
@thomasmoran6547
@thomasmoran6547 3 года назад
Personally I think Moffat is one of the greatest writers, he took risks and they paid off most of the time. Ps. If she hates Moffat after this, then holy shit what will she think of the current guy big chibber
@Precisa72
@Precisa72 3 года назад
I now realise why I like watching reaction videos,. I have trouble connecting to my emotions, and need to see others react to a scene to feel more of a connection to that scene. But I never considered how those who connect easily to their emotions feel being so manipulated by storylines designed to get the strongest emotion possible. that would hurt Thank you for sharing, be sad, be angry, they are all reactions that help us feel things too.
@KatAlysha
@KatAlysha 3 года назад
@someguy9204
@someguy9204 3 года назад
Interesting reaction. My issue with this episode was more about the Doctor never being able to go to New York again. There's lots of ways he could still get in touch with them (land outside NY, meet in another city,...) Ultimately, all storytelling is manipulative when you think about it. But I can understand your frustration with being jerked around emotionally. If I remember correctly, Moffat struggled pretty hard with writing this episode and wasn't sure himself how he wanted their exit to be. And try not to forget all of the Moffat episodes that you genuinely enjoyed, of which there were quite a few.
@ftumschk
@ftumschk 3 года назад
...and there are more good Moffat (and Moffat-era) episodes to come :)
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
he couldnt interfere with their timelines again. the doctor as a timetraveler is always slightly interfering just by being there. maybe maybe it would be safe but what if something went wrong and stopped them from growing old together or changed something written in the book? and the book said they dont meet again. you could say why write the book but the point is time travel isnt a straight line its a.... its all happening at once.
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
@@ftumschk literally about to respond with that, I'm a big fan of 9 personally. Plus 50th anniversary
@someguy9204
@someguy9204 3 года назад
@@dutchman8887 According to the show's own rules, unless their death is a fixed point, it doesn't matter. And even then, The Doctor's 'death' last season was also supposedly a fixed point, but he circumvented that too. Other examples of him changing time lines throughout the show are plentiful.
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
Perfect ending, feels more natural. The ending was where it was going for a long time, and you don't know what's going to happen in life, sometimes life pulls the rug out from under you.
@TheFallofTheEleventh
@TheFallofTheEleventh 3 года назад
That’s true but she’s completely right about how it’s manipulative.
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
@@TheFallofTheEleventh no she isn't. For her experience, it can be seen as that, but when Moffat was writing these episodes, he wrote them knowing that everyone else who was watching the episodes at the time, knew that Amy and Rory were leaving. He wrote it to surprise people that already knew what was going to happen. It isn't his fault people are watching it for the first time almost 10 years after it aired and don't know what was common knowledge when it was released.
@TheFallofTheEleventh
@TheFallofTheEleventh 3 года назад
@@LODintheshadows It wasn’t common knowledge back then, I literally remember this half of the season airing in 2012….. not everyone did know they were leaving only the fans who want to know everything about upcoming seasons. My friends at the time didnt know….plenty of people didnt so you’re just making the assumption that everyone who saw this knew that was coming when that’s just not true, and her reaction definitively proves that. Moffat wouldn’t make something for the tiniest group of people if it meant causing the vast majority to have a reaction like she just did, that’s not only bad story telling thats just bad show running, period. You don’t just go through the entire motions of the episode and then in the final 30 seconds just pull the rug out with no rhyme or reason or even logical expectation. She’s completely right with her complaint about Moffat, tell us a story and allow the emotions to come from that, not some cheap move that you just pull out of no where in order to manipulate the audience into having those emotions. Just because a ton of people cried about Rory and Amy leaving, doesn’t mean it was good story telling. I cried with David Tennant left the show but in actuality looking back, it’s one of the worst regenerations in the history of the show due to how out of place it is and manipulative it is to the audience. Even RTD did it from time to time, Moffat shouldn’t be making a piece of media or writing it if someone 10 years later can’t just sit down and watch it and just enjoy it. It’s not Moffat’s fault that some people are just watching this episode so late down the line, but it IS his fault for not making the episode more accessible. This is a common problem from Moffat too, if you’re trying to talk about common knowledge
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
@@TheFallofTheEleventh Imabe honest, too tired to read all that, read first bits of each paragraphs, but no, it was common knowledge at the time.
@TheFallofTheEleventh
@TheFallofTheEleventh 3 года назад
@@LODintheshadows except it wasn’t. I literally used to work on the show and can tell you that it wasn’t.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
great episode. the only companion departure apart from marthas that actually has good thematic reasoning behind it rather than just being a sad way to separate them. beautiful completion of amys arc of maturation and love for rory. smiths performance is so good in this episode. i have to say the comments about manipulation are off base. it is made very clear in the scene on the rooftop that if it works they will survive. there was no trick. rory explains his paradox and why it will work. did you expect them to splat dead on the pavement? the emotion comes from rory's bravery and amys love not because they will die. also that was to give rory his big send off and create an additional paradox in new york so he cant go back. without that scene rory doesnt get any send off at all. where were these criticisms in MUCH more clear examples of manipulation when rtd did them? how come he wasnt criticised for in the series 2 finale twice having rose state it was the story of how she died only for her to survive? how come rose teleporting back and then being teleported back again wasnt manipulation? how come that is supposedly its own thing? how is her teleporting back saying she's staying and then being taken back any less of a switcharoo? how come he wasnt criticised for the series 4 finale where it is twice stated that one of the children of time will die only for them not to? or when martha teleports and jack literally says to the audience that martha is dead. unbearable double standards. when does it any point say the audience was dumb or tricked? at the time we already knew they were leaving this episode so clearly when it was being written it wasnt in mind of thinking they were staying. its fine to dislike it but personal attacks over a tv show arent. just say you dont like the episode and you can say you dont like moffats writing say it was fucking shit whatever and explain why. this isnt about opinions. theres no need to turn that though into personal attacks for 10 minutes. especially then if you will bring up the previous person and praise them for doing the same thing but worse.
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
The problem is, a certain Christmas episode will have the exact same reaction I think, unless it is explained that, the episode was written and began filming, with one thing in mind, and then real life plans changed which caused the last minute rewrite. She will say its emotional manipulation again, but it won't be, because as we were watching the show live, we heard all the behind the scenes stuff, and know that's why things will happen the way they will. Apologies for vagueness, think should be understandable what I'm referring to, but don't want to post obvious spoilers
@Cowmoo83
@Cowmoo83 3 года назад
I may agree with this sentiment, but there’s no need to attack them over their initial reaction and sharing of opinions. They don’t need to properly justify all their points perfectly - this isn’t an essay, it’s their raw feelings and experience. I’m glad they were so open and honest in this video.
@dutchman8887
@dutchman8887 3 года назад
@@Cowmoo83 i am not attacking them over sharing their opinions. i made that very clear in the post. i said they can call the episode terrible if they want. i am literally complaining about them making personal attacks at moffat because they didnt like how he wrote something. pretty sure thats worse than me explaining why a lot of what they said was unfounded and done worse in the previous era but was never even pointed out... are you going to make the same post directed towards them because they "attacked" moffat for something he wrote as entertainment for children? i love their reactions i have never attacked that. i just do not enjoy 10 minutes of fuck you to someone who tried to write an episode of a family show. especially when a lot of the reasoning behind that is flawed. if paula is going to specfically bring up rose as an example of being good when really it did everything and worse this episode did i decided to point that out. i didnt say wow paula you are so dumb for thinking that. i just listed where i think what she said was inaccurate. i am just engaging with their comments. no attacks from me to them at all. if i didnt like them i wouldnt be here.
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
@@Cowmoo83 better to get honest reactions than a lot of the fake ones that go around, that absolutely love everything in every reaction video they make haha. I'm just bummed it was that extreme, because this ep and the next couple are some of my favs in whole series, and then end of this season also has some of my favs, and we will pribably have to wait for Paula to be ready again lol
@LODintheshadows
@LODintheshadows 3 года назад
Another similar situation which rtd did was tennent last episode. We keep getting this thing of he will knock 4 times, obviously, completely set up that it's the master we are meant to think of, then master disappears, and David survives, then we have Wilfred knock 4 times to "pull the rug from out under us"
@legna424_8
@legna424_8 3 года назад
This was my very first episode of Doctor Who and I loved the writing so much. It got me to cry without even knowing the characters and ever since I've been hooked on this show
@michaelbastraw1493
@michaelbastraw1493 3 года назад
I thought fiction, by its very nature, was meant to manipulate many aspects of the individual. Best. Leo.
@Sephsekla
@Sephsekla 3 года назад
After watching: Firstly, congratulations to Katrina on 5 years! That's awesome! I like this episode a lot, but like a lot of commenters I'm in the UK and watched this when it first aired. We knew it was coming, just a question of when, so the atmosphere was more of clever subversion and playing with our expectations. Whereas I get how without that context it's just a gut punch. Paula - I really hope this doesn't sour your feelings on the show, there's so much awesome stuff to come. And thanks to both of you for being the best reactions on RU-vid!
@jasonusher3824
@jasonusher3824 3 года назад
great reaction, I love almost everything about this episode, also Paula you don't need to apologize for how you feel, everyone has their own feelings and their own reactions to storylines, the only thing I don't like but look past is how The Doctor can't go back to get them because he cannot fly the TARDIS in New York anymore, there is no reason he couldn't have went to New Jersey or any other state around New York in that time period and drove or walked or whatever to New York and take them back to the TARDIS,other than that I personally love Moffats writing more than anyone else on the show, also one of my favorite Rory lines ever is in this one, Amy says when they're on the building and Rory climbs on the ledge "You think you'll just come Back to life " Rory's brilliant response "When Don't I" the one thing I disagree with you with though is when you said "respect the characters, let them have their story" because this is the Characters story, also they pretty much told us earlier in the episode that Rory was going to die by showing his name on the tombstone right after saying if you read it it's gonna happen like its etched in stone, the audience read the name,
@brentchapman2
@brentchapman2 3 года назад
I’m so sorry it rubbed you the wrong way but I love seeing the reactions from you every week. Being a Dr Who fan can be rough sometimes.
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
@benjaminhondorp8593
@benjaminhondorp8593 3 года назад
I can say I did not expect this reaction... but I understand it. I only have a few shows I really connect to and Doctor Who is one of those. Moffat era was actually the first that I experienced, and so my reaction to this episode was VERY emotional. I don't cry a lot, but there were tears here. I think the fact that this was my first doctor (the first face this whovian's face saw if you will), caused me to get used to/forgive the very "Moffat" emotional manipuliation that it carries. I've learned to recognise it though, and I completely understand your reaction. It's just that my own emotional attachment will always make this episode a bawler for me...
@erikohman2294
@erikohman2294 3 года назад
Moffat mentioned the idea of an adventure with the Angel where someone would write a book in the past. It was on the extra materials for "the time of the angels". "But now when Ive mentioned it here I cant use it". Guess he could.
@JayJ1095
@JayJ1095 3 года назад
I think the whole "trick" thing wasn't as much of a problem when it first aired because it was already confirmed they were leaving. So it made more sense to create some amount of uncertainty as to exactly how and when they would leave. In hindsight though, this episode AND all the back and forth in previous episodes does seem a bit much.
@brentchapman2
@brentchapman2 3 года назад
Let the water works begin. I really liked this episode so much but it was so hard to say goodbye.
@gameday123123
@gameday123123 3 года назад
You two ROCK! All I can think of to say is, thank you for being.
@sharonjimenez8000
@sharonjimenez8000 3 года назад
Love you girls. I too was very upset with their departure and It took a bit to warm up to the next companion. Paula, no shame in venting your anger. We are human. Katrina, congrats on staying sober, it's strong. I love watching your reactions to DW. I know you'll need a bit of time before embarking on the next part. In the mean time, xoxo 🥰🥰
@OrionJchess
@OrionJchess 3 года назад
Yesterday's Enterprise AND Angels Take Manhattan in the same week?! That's some wibbly wobbly timing!
@IggyStardust1967
@IggyStardust1967 3 года назад
Yeah, you ain't joking. I wonder if they planned it that way?
@FortoFight
@FortoFight 3 года назад
"The Offspring" next week as well lmao
@jonathanross149
@jonathanross149 3 года назад
@@FortoFight It's much worse than "Yesterday's Enterprise"
@freyjarichardson1519
@freyjarichardson1519 3 года назад
Younger me watching this completely burst out into tears whilst hiding behind a pillow, then a couple of months later merlin ended on xmas eve and it broke me even more, then the next Christmas special happened and I think my year was just officially ruined with the tears.
@davy8428
@davy8428 3 года назад
Mr Moffat is a Genius
@saintcarreyett
@saintcarreyett 3 года назад
I can understand Paula being upset by their ending. But OMG, her reaction is way over the top, seriously.
@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829
@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829 3 года назад
Anger is one of the 5 phases of grief and it is not really cool in 2021 for a person to tell another person how they should feel about something they are going through. This is not our journey through "Doctor Who", it is her's and we should not invalidate her feelings, because they don't match our own, it just doesn't seem cool anymore.
@saintcarreyett
@saintcarreyett 3 года назад
@@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829You are part of that generation who are offended by everything. You will struggle with life. And it is a tv show. It is not real grief. I hope you realise this.
@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829
@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829 3 года назад
@@saintcarreyett your right, sorry to have bothered you.
@Socius-
@Socius- 3 года назад
Jason Saint-Carreyett Agreed. Also, RTD did this sort of stuff too and it always seems to be Moffat’s writing that gets hate.
@H2E47
@H2E47 3 года назад
At least the rest of the season is pretty fun especially the end. I personally love the twist at the end but you're entitled to your own opinion.
@thatcedric
@thatcedric 3 года назад
I must be a Vulcan, I just thought what s great episode.
@PaulaDeming
@PaulaDeming 3 года назад
haha different strokes, different folks!
@meowza3k
@meowza3k 3 года назад
this just the first hill of the emotional rollercoaster
@TheBS1000
@TheBS1000 3 года назад
Don't rage quit. So much is coming that is too good to miss (50th Anniversary, An Adventure in Space and Time, The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot, then Capaldi's Doctor a little on down the road). I have to say, though, that Paula's reaction is fucking hilarious to watch. If I had just watched this episode for the first time, I know I wouldn't be laughing. But having some distance from it allows me the ability to watch this and enjoy how lively the reaction is. Fucks were being thrown left and right and it was fucking hilarious.
@jthomann71
@jthomann71 3 года назад
LOL, Paula got Katrina with Tasha Yar and Katrina got Paula back.
@danhardy6826
@danhardy6826 3 года назад
As many others have said, it's worth remembering (and Paula should maybe have been told) that everyone did know this was the Pond's last episode. The other thing I need to say, obviously everyone has a right to their own reaction, and it was a very emotional reaction, but suggesting Moffat thinks the audience he's writing for are idiots who can be tricked are not the kindest words, because that feels hurtful to audience members who enjoyed this episode and thought it a fitting end to the Pond's story.
@Concreteowl
@Concreteowl 3 года назад
Life does kick you in the teeth just as you come out of the Dentist. That's why I love Moffat. He writes like the universe does.
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