I like how whenever batman let's joker live people go "the joker needs to die" but when someone does actually kill him they're painted as the bad guy, or it's sad somehow
He does deserve to die, but messing Robin up enough to turn into Red Hood and kill him means that Joker gets want he wanted. Whatever people say, Red Hood is still a bad guy imo. He kills innocent people too. It **IS** sad and f*cked up. Because no matter what, even in death, Joker still wins.
Joker tried guilting Jason, but this was what he wanted all along. For two years straight, the joker had tormented him. He's the embodiment of vengeance
Except he's wrong lol. All killing isn't equal. Joker killing for fun, and Hood killing criminals dosen't make them the same. It's like saying a war hero and a Nazi are the same because they both killed people. Sometimes people gotta die, and SOMEBODY has to do it. I think Batman is really just a coward, because in the end he knows the only way it end is with Joker dead, but he wants someone else to be the trigger man.
@@pauld.b7129 I was referring to that speech as in it just fits his delusional psychotic mind. Agree with you to an extent about Batman not wanting to pull the trigger but coward no I don’t agree.
Except, it does, and it does lol. You think there’s a difference between murdering for “good” & murdering for “evil”? You’re still a murderer. You’re just a murderer with an excuse. Did you see the ending where Robin followed your logic, and killed Villians? Even Villians thought he was too pitiful to kill, because he didn’t stand for anything. He just killed criminals under the guise of “peace”, purging whoever he wanted LIKE a villain. So let me ask: what exactly is the difference between killing for sport, and killing for justice? Are you somehow better, because you have a reason to? Batman’s right I’m not killing, because what do you get from a vigilante who decides to take lives? Owlman. Ultraman. SUPERMAN in injustice.
@@jamesmassey4863 Sometimes you can still stand for something even if you fight, or kill. Take World War II for example, Nazi’s had to be stopped from genocide and world domination. Sure, the war took many lives … However, the allied forces still stood by the virtues of freedom, justice, and human goodness. I know this is different than an individual personally seeking out this, but my point is that you can murder bad people and still stand for something; just look at Marvel’s Punisher. Had batman either quit being a vigilante, of had just killed the Joker, he would have saved so many lives. Is morality always worth the cost? The world isn’t so black and white. If it was and killing was a line that should never be crossed the Nazi’s would have taken over the entire world. We would all be ruled under strict authoritarian fascism. That dystopian reality I think is too much of a price to pay. Am I saying that the Red Hood is justified and that he went about everything the right way? No, that’s not what I’m saying. Nonetheless, anti-heroes exist for a reason, and I personally find many of them much more compelling than your average hero.
Commissioner Gordon's tired sigh of relief at finding Joker dead says a lot. He finally got to tell his daughter that the man who paralyzed and terrorized her was dead and could never hurt her or anyone else ever again. Joker can lie all he wants about retiring due to boredom but the truth is that he's a psycho that easily kills whenever he experiences even a slight annoyance. Sure, he maybe wouldn't be doing the city wide terror and wholesale slaughter but there's no way he wouldn't ever kill again. The only way to truly stop him from killing was to put him down like the rabid animal he was. Jason did what had to be done imho.
in this sense its not entirely a lie in one ending where jason gets therapy after the death of batman joker actually was retired and seeing a therapist too but when he and jason remet his inner joker came out in the form of a laugh and jason killed him in a diner
@@uncutfandu3179 That's kind of my point, though. Even in universes like White Knight where Joker purposefully tries to go straight it's always a temporary change. The man kills as easily as breathing for the slightest annoyance or joke and lives for the thrill of being notorious and hunted. He will never stop permanently.
@@Goldenswagger359 I wouldn't call this the easy way out, but more the inevitable end. This was the only way to stop Joker from continuing to kill. Punishment doesn't even factor into it because Joker CAN'T be punished for his crimes. He can't be incarcerated because he always escapes and goes back to killing and even a prison/asylum specifically built to imprison threats on his level can't hold him long enough to even get through a full trial let alone a full sentence.
I know this is late but I sort of just got on the DC kick and I've always viewed Batman's 'you don't understand' as Batman admitting that if he ever killed he wouldn't be able to stop because he wasn't strong enough. Batman wouldn't be sad learning the Joker died but he can't allow himself to do it because unlike Jason he wouldn't be able to stop killing the bad guys. Even if they weren't as bad as the Joker. Jason says 'this isn't about Bane or Penguin' but to Batman it is. It is because it opens a door he's been suppressing his whole life. I understand why some people think the no-kill rule a lot of superheroes have is stupid but I've always felt it worked for Batman. In some stories the Waynes' death could be seen as 'deserved' by the general public, and while no one will argue killing the Joker, maybe another villain that Batman kills on his spree or even a goon or henchman,,, maybe people will object to that.
Jokers famous line is one bad day day can make a man go insane , I get what you mean but it was the day that bombs blew up is when Jason finally cracked under the torture that’s why he said one bad day
That was only in the Arkham games. In the comics and the animated movie, the Joker just beat Jason Todd with a crowbar for a day before blowing him up.
But I don't see why he needed to feel guilty. All the men he's killed up till now were gangsters and crime lords. Those men have probably killed, tortured, raped, and assaulted who knows how many innocent people. By killing them, Jason was not only saving innocents, but cleaning up the city of it's filth. Not once did Jason ever target random Joe's and Jane's, or a mother with her children, or an elderly couple. He was doing the city a favor by doing what Batman wasn't willing to do.
@@zelohendricks51 Who cares? Batman himself is a murderer of hindreds and possibly thousands of innocent people due to his false mindset, thanks to him letting Joker get arrested over and over and breaking out he has allowed him to kill countless innocent people all because of his squeeky clean hero mentality of not killing even when it needs to be done. Jason did what needed to be done and in this situation he is a better Hero then Batman could ever be.
I love the fact that someone finally stopped being caught up on the moral victory, that's what held batman back, the fact that he cared more about his personal code than he did about the hundreds if not thousands that the joker killed, the idea that if you kill the joker he wins
Joker has 2,000 IQ but is insane He knew he was going to do it at some point. He got into his head from the start since Joker was watching. Joker was always on thin ice for Jason, but he knew he wouldn't be able to crack Bruce
He wins, yes, but pretty sure you can give it to him if that's means he's dead and gone. Or, get someone who can kill him without breaking themselves or there personal morales, like the Punisher.
It's ironic and a nice nod off to the time when Tim pulled the trigger on the joker in batman the animated series and his last were were "that's not funny"
Oh no, he was. A man who's seen death after death, murder after murder, knows the look in the eye of someone who's about to kill someone. Notice how his laugh becomes louder and more energetic as Jason makes his choice. He can see it coming. And in the end, he had his fun, and he won.
Oh he did. Joker deserved to die so much that it should've been dead more than several dozen decades before even his great, great grandparents where even born my friend. *That's* exactly how horrible and despicable he truly was and still is to this day man.
The thing is that whenever someone do kill him, he wins because he managed to break his killer into killing, which is beatifully f#ucked up and perfect for his character. I think that to truly get the better of him, you have to kill him out of a rationnal decision and not out of rage or insanity.
Joker says an important truth about the Batman Universe: when vigilantes hang up their capes, when they stop taking "justice" into their own hands... Joker stops killing. He gets bored, lets himself be dragged back to Arkham and he just STOPS. Also, to think Jason actually HAS to kill Joker in order to get to the "good" ending...
I mean that's only really applies to main villains like the Joker and Lex who are foils for the hero. Villains who have their own reasons for breaking the law like penguin or freeze would keep doing what they're doing.
@@cheshirekat8273 Sure, but Jason is heavily traumatised and Batman is mentally handicapped. Also, thx for the spelling correction for Zur-En-Arrh. I always forget it. XD
That's joker's whole philosophy, human psychology is a mess and it's pointless to play into morals and society's ideals. But not in a good way, in a 'murder murder violence!' way. It manifests as 'All it takes is one bad day.' That sums it up pretty well. He's walking proof of it. Whatever happened to him, whichever iteration it is, it always was just one bad day that did it. One bad day.
See, I love the fact that Joker didn't even *try* fighting back, once the mask came off. He knew, no matter what happened next, he wins. So he just sat back to enjoy a good laugh.
@@williamwest9204 That's just biology. when you're dead, your muscles stop functioning, so it's highly likely that he wasn't smiling because he was dead. Besides, his face just looked blank, so that only really supports that theory
@@Ultraking909 That's an artistic thing that certain authors may do. In this one, Joker isn't nearly injured enough for his face to end up in a permanent smile after death, so it's natural that his muscles relaxed and he stopped smiling.
Jason became what Gotham really needed. He didn’t just trap the snake after it broke into the hen house for the 10th time. He cut off the head and buried it deep. Jason Todd as Red Hood is one of my all time favorite DC characters.
Sometime heroes has to kill because there's no other choice, for self defense, and to avenged those who suffered/died innocently. You're a legend Jason, and you have a good point. When evils who hurt/killed innocents cannot be stopped, then Cold Blooded Vigilantism is the only choice you had Jason. ✊😡👍
I agree to some extent when Vigilantism have to kill. It should be when they have no other choice and the criminal would only continue to break out and kill others. I'm not saying killing should be a regular thing. Joker may have some messed up childhood and could possibly be reformed with some help. But if its taken too far and there doesn't seem to be any other way to stop Joker then maybe hard choices are needed
You're wrong. Killing, no matter what for, makes room for excuses. "It was self defense, he was too dangerous" but then it becomes easier and easier to make up excuses. Look at superman injustice. I agree thst sometimes some people are simply too far gone and too dangerous to be left alive, but one person shouldn't get to decide that.
You know what I think is the funniest part of the joke? With any other heroic protege out for revenge, Joker would have just went out here while being completely outplayed. But because Jason is the protege of Batman, because he was led to believe by his mentor that not even the slimiest scumbag deserved to be killed, Joker is able to psychologically wreck Jason and score a victory in his book. It couldn’t have happened to a less dumbly idealistic hero. In fact, if the hero weren’t so idealistic, Joker would probably have been killed before he was ever able to ruin Jason’s life.
Joker won BECAUSE Jason became a killer. Joker dying at the hands of a batfamily member is the ultimate victory on his part. And the ultimate failure on Jason/Bruce
After Joker did to Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon he deserved to be die and yes Joker is able to psychologically wreck Jason and score a 2nd victory in his book even after ruin Jason’s life.
This Red Hood in particular puts people down regards if they need to be (at least in this version). A shitty city like Gotham, while it deserves him, definitely doesn't need him.
@@magomandrake171 And what about the criminals Red Hood mutilated just to get Joker’s attention? At least the last movie Red Hood only killed you if you were a threat, this one strictly lured the Joker back into crime so he could kill him by going out of his way to murder criminals.
So does this mean Jason's Red Hood Persona has taken control and has a bit of a life of its own? Joker did say that Jason doesn't remember. So does that mean it's red hood Persona is a conscious split personality from Jason?
@@adrianarballo179 the real him wanted to kill the criminals but his conscious self still wanted to make batman proud so he repressed the memories of him killing(theres a great chance im wrong but this is what im picking up from the dialogue)
This is definitely one of the best Joker monologues in the movies, animated or not. I love how enthusiastic he is about the whole situation. Especially "I never saw this punchline comin" and " don't be modest!". He's so absolutely thrilled by this revelation and what it means that he's practically won in his own mind the moment he sees Jason's face. He's practically on the verge of happy tears when he says day in "one bad day"
He saw the joke, but was waiting on the punchline. To see the kid he tormented be the tormentor now made the joke a good one. All in all, his theory right, it leads to both branches: in the one he dies, that's it, but now there's dealing with individuals that may swarm the family since Joker's gone, and of course the bigger bastard: an unrestrained, manipulated Batman serving Talia. In the one he's spared? He leaves, despising himself. Despite sparing the clown, it doesn't undo his past actions, and leaves an interesting black stain on the matter. I do prefer the one where Jason has to save Bruce, as everything starts making sense and it ends on a note where now the roles are reversed in terms of help, and Jason, who is fairly younger here than in 'Under the Red Hood' now has to find what they want to do with their life now.
I love Jason Todd. Not just in this movie, in general. Such an amazing and badass character with such a tragic and nostalgic story. DC outdid themselves with Jason Todd (Red Hood). He’s not a copy of the other Robin’s, he’s an completely unique and standout character. I wish DC could go back to their old writing days, like in the 90’s and early 2000’s. Jason would absolutely annihilate and decimate in an live action movie, not to mention have a huge emotional effect on true and old fans who grew up on DC Comics.
I love how Red Hood says I’m not a killer while holding a gun to a man’s head and also having killed many people prior. And he repressed all of it, lol. This truly is the bad ending imo.
No it’s cause his minds fucked up he thought he wasn’t killing anyone before this he thought he was still following Batman turns out he was killing every criminal
@@vincesalgado1876 Basically when your mind locks away something so you don't remember. That's why Red Hood's so lost when Joker mentions his killing spree. Hope that makes sense.
@@JD-oc2sx dude Gordon is a cop though. In real life, one of his officers would be shooting random people like 2 times a week 😂 he's like "one of my cops killed a poor guy robbing a liquor store to feed his family, but Red Hood killed a mass murderer.... Unforgivable" 😂 I always found it ridiculous that Gordon would share Batman's poor interpretation of justice.
The real question is, why hasn’t Gordon or one of his officers killed Joker, yet? One would think the clown prince of crime would warrant enough of a threat for Gotham PD to use deadly force.
Out of respect for the law. Doing it "the right way" makes it sound like the law works. Besides Joker is legally insane so the state won't execute an insane asylum regular like him. If they do, what's stopping the state from doing the same to the others or Arkham? That's why Joker laughs: he sees that life the greatest form of irony. He's not insane; just a really great actor about it all.
@@nosfonader8792 I’ve heard of cops shooting people with schizophrenia. No one would doubt Gordon if he said he shot Joker and said he feared for his life.
@@nosfonader8792 in the US cops WILL shoot you if they feel you are a threat. Kids were shot for having toy guns. There is no way someone like the joker would still be alive
I like that this scene emphasizes how much Joker psychologically damaged Jason, rather than Jason killing him being a “oh no, the hero lost the moral high ground and killed the villain blah blah blah” moment
@@spicymeatballs2thespiceningHis gotcha is more than "he killed a bunch of villain." His gotcha is "he killed a bunch of villains like the joker would."
@@scrappi2215 personally I'm surprised they don't make different lines of Batman movies/animated stuff for the different villains (with some crossovers), because I love the joker, but I'm also a very huge two face fan(and clay face too... Maybe a "face" league 😅 lead by hush for his "face off" with Bruce). Personally I think any of batman's rogue gallery, if written properly, could overcome joker's and rival him(tho Batman and Robin made me consider him worse than any camp in Adam west's Batman, but tas Mr freeze is low key probably my favorite with his introduction pilot. But regardless of my inner bat -dork perspective, I actually find joker the most interesting character in these animated films
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am: just one bad day." I mean... he's kinda right?
@@ShiverwarHe IS right, he just thinks it's very profound when it's pretty obvious no one's going to be as they were if they fall into a vat of chemicals that rewire their brain chemistry like what happened to the Joker.. I mean it doesn't HAVE to be a vat of chemicals, it could also be torture and then getting blown up and killed only to get revived like what happened to Jason..
If anyone could be a worthy successor to Mark Hamil's interpretation of The Joker, its John DiMaggio. He doesnt try to mimic Hamils joker either. He gives his own interpretation that can be just as chilling. This may be one of his best performances. The "Who's Your Daddy" line followed by maniacal laughter is absolutely bone chilling.
This ending really pissd me off joker a real villain because he actually gets does the cruelty for shits and giggles but nightwing Oracle and the police force were disappointed that he died? that he was murdered? Moral reason i understand cause breaks the line between how far yr willing to go but that's for normal people but joker is not normal mf is a stone killer
I agreed with you on that one lack of justice or law system on them but I believe in two side of stories Jason Todd did the right thing kill the joker ruined a lot of lives and murder bunch of people and yet he escaped from Arkham asylum multiple times never went to prison or go to Death row I believe in eye for an eye if you kill someone you get the death penalty Now the other side of the story the reason Captain Gordon, Dick (nightwing), and Barbara (Batgirl, Oracle) are sad is not because the joker was murdered it because that Jason Todd ( red hood, robin) kill somebody now they got to caught him as a criminal he can’t say he use it for self-defense because after he kill the joker he fled the scene and if he does get captured. Sent him to prison there a lot of criminals will try to kill him even Harley Quinn for killing her Puddin
Pretty sure Jim and Barbara weren't mourning Joker. It had to be either cathartic tears that the man who personally paralyzed and violated her is dead, or sadness that they might know who killed him and are sad that Jason ended up this way
@@paulesbasem9518 How about you rethink yours. If your family was getting killed, are you just gonna sit there and watch them die cuz you don’t wanna kill? You ain’t no super hero, you ain’t no Batman. You are just a regular ass mf down the street. You are not gonna fight off killers and criminals without killing them and they will do it again and again. That’s reality
@@paulesbasem9518 don’t kill then. But if someone is fucking your wife and you wanna be weak because you don’t wanna kill that’s on you. You ain’t gonna fight evil people off. You just regular ass person just so you remember that.
My ONLY complaint with this scene is that when Joker’s corpse should’ve been smiling. Would’ve fit his psychosis. Especially since he died knowing “his legacy” would live on through Jason
This is your reward, Joker, for transforming the killing and torturing of Robin or Jason Todd, and this is the response of Hood, who loved him among the villains of Batman, who was Robin before he became the strong Red Hood.
I never understood though why they would allow millions to suffer and die just because they don't want to give the joker the satisfaction of making them *more than rightfully* lose their sh*t and kill him. Joker: "I did it. I made you lose control!" Me: "I'on give a sh*t!" *POW*
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i love that Jason here,didn't hesitate to kill Joker here shooting him.This guy killed millions of people,kidnapped him,parylyzed barbara and did other bad crimes.He was done with it and Joker had it coming.
“One bad day” Deep down I don’t think people realize how deep this sentence is. One bad day” is all it takes to set someone off. Most murderers didn’t just wake up and plan their devious actions. It was that bad day that changed them. One bad day. You may have a bad day and can go into work the next day, the other person who had a bad day goes into work and kills everyone he pleases. One Bad Day.
I really like it when villains actually *dies* rather than the usual "Oh no,I'll be sent to jail and then just break out with no effort for the thousandth fucking time". I kid you not,I'm not a huge fan of letting those insane and psychopathic villains just end up in jail instead of killing them. I know killing people is wrong but there are exceptions,the Joker is one good example. He has killed thousands of innocent people and he even tortured Jason here for 6 bloody months. If you say he didn't deserve to get shot in the head and die,then idk what's wrong with you. A bit off topic but I also love how gore some of the kills that Red hood did
I agree, Killing his always a negative, even if its someone like the Joker, but it's far from an absolute negative. Sure, killing the Joker in and of itself isn't good by any means, but considering the amount of purposeless death and suffering it would prevent (which may or may not include a god damn *NUKE* going off, depending on which universe your in), I say it's worth making that compromise.
@@lordwarlockthangwrath8662 idk I disagree. Killing Joker isn't just not wrong, it's the ultimate right. IDK why having a jury put him to death with a literal mountain of evidence makes it any better. Jokers actions forfeited his right to live long ago. Even if he COULD be rehabilitated, he absolutely dosen't deserve it. His death is the only true justice for all the people he killed. And honestly just one to the head is too good for him. Red Hood should have shot his limbs off first, to make sure he didn't think he'd somehow won.
eh not really bro, Joker does deserve to die yeah, but if you kill him how are you any better than what he was, at the end of the day you are still a killer just like him, that's the whole point, you kill Joker you're a killer just like him, even if Joker has obviously done WAY more messed up shit and killing thousands, that's why Joker won in this scenario because he made Jason into a cold-blooded and statistic killer like himself.
4:24 One could almost mistake them for being sad for Joker's death, but that wouldn't make sense at all given he's the one who crippled Barbara. They're actually just sad for Jason. Or at least I hope they are.
Yeah, because people don’t have the intellectual capability to discern the difference between a homicidal maniac terrorizing civilians and someone terrorizing those homicidal maniacs terrorizing innocents. Jason Todd is not like you Joker, in fact he’s your exact opposite.
This changed my mind about the Joker. I see him now as the conduit to retribution. He pushed Jason to this point, to a point where he is the true Dark Knight. Criminals stand no chance. In a way, the joker is a good guy here unintentionally. He saved a lot of lives with what he did to Jason. Besides, sense needed to knocked into him. With violent people, you can only speak through violence. Not compassion. Reserve that for the people who need it.
That. Felt. Good, finally all those months of torture, and then he hunted me in my dreams, I ended this all, now... I'm taking all my anger left on gothams disgusting men and women, I am the hero gotham needs, I guess he was right, all it takes is one bad day, but for me it was 6 months ..
So basically joker is playing mind game on bruce and bruce is the victim of it. Bruce thinks he will lose if he kills joker, he will lose his morality and order of rules. And joker is also aware of this. While in the other hand, joker kills countless innocents and still survives only to torture bruce's feelings and still gets the laugh. Lock in a lock and redhood's the key.
“Oh no, Jason killed the joker!” Like bro, if I was tortured for a year of course I would kill the Person who tortured. Plus, joker has killed hundreds of innocent people and all Batman did way beat the hell out of him.
The Joker may have died, but he still got the last laugh. That is the whole point about the Joker, even up to him dying - HE GET THE LAST LAUGH. And right after his death shot hits the fan like crazy. A killing joke kind of crazy. *JOKER LAUGHTER ECHOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD*
I like Jason Todd I can sympathize with such a character, why let evil live when you can take it out once and for all. Sometimes it takes a necessary evil to combat evil itself.
Seeing joker put the shift on the moments in Under the Red Hood, especially Black Mask actually dying by making a speech that reflect a mirror of what Jason had really become. Putting such a haunted look of absolute fear in his eyes was probably the DARKEST Fucking Twist in DC History It proves that Todd's torture was more than sadistic satisfaction for Joker. (Combo with the effects of the Lazarus Pit) it made something out of his darker self. We took it as him becoming an antihero badass, but was Jason's personal monster The Red Hood.. truly was in fact Reborn
