I just read the first mediation a few days ago and then watched a documentary called Mind your Mind not knowing they would have a connection. But in the documentary they showed ways the brain can literally change the way it hears a sound and can literally see colors that aren't actually there etc. Made his first meditation all the more interesting to me.
What it also presupposes is that that the state of dreaming and being awake are distinct, which we are acquainted with by experiencing both of them, which renders the argument that it all can be a dream meaningless.
I’ve been reading wittgensteins “on certainty” recently and he makes a point about dreams. “The argument “i may be dreaming” is senseless for this reason: if i am dreaming, the remark is being dreamed as well - and indeed it is also being dreamed that these words have any meaning.” I’m not sure it’s a perfect refutation since i think you could have an idea you were dreaming without language, but i think it’s a good enough response to be worth bringing up.
Wittgenstein, for all his brilliance, usually hasn't read much in the history of philosophy, unfortunately. In this case, it's better to look at it as an interesting observation by W. rather than as anything remotely close to a "refutation"
In Meditation @. "Some, indeed, might perhaps be found who would be disposed rather to deny the existence of a Being so powerful than to believe that there is nothing certain" This first sentence I'm struggling with. I think I understand what he is saying in this section in general... that if I am able to be deceived and to err, and that if I am indeed the product of a chain of cause and effect events, then that which is caused me will also contain within it imperfection and deceit, therefore it can't be the ultimate good, i.e. God. But I don't understand that first sentence - why would they rather deny God THAN believe nothing is certain?
People in the world are different. Some have some motives, some have others. Some buy into one set of beliefs, others different ones.Not sure what you’re confused about
@@GregoryBSadler What does he mean by "Some, indeed, might perhaps be found who would be disposed rather to deny the existence of a Being so powerful than to believe that there is nothing certain" ? are you saying that this statement simply means that people are different and have different motives? i.e. Why does the affirmation of atheism lead to belief in certainty? i.e. Why are people rather not believing in god so that they can believe in certainty? of course people are different and have various motives greg
@@calleOMEGA Nope. I'm saying people have different motives, so some might well take that position. Did you read the actual full text of that Meditation?
@@GregoryBSadler right, people may take many positions, but what is the assumed reasoning for them taking that position… why would they not deny belief in a god and believe in uncertainty. I read up to that point. Paragraph 10
@@calleOMEGA Here's the last thing I'll say. Think a bit more deeply about what is said in the text, as you're rereading the text. What does he explicitly say God could change or make false?
You can't feel pain in dreams, you can't keep/tell time, you can't physically exercise the way you can while awake, laws of physics dont apply/exist, you cant actually hear sounds and make them, you have no recollection or awareness of where you are or how you got there, you seem to warp from place to place and situation to situation, you cant consciously question if youre dreaming, the only similar thing to that, you can do is recognise that you are indeed dreaming (lucidity) but this is different from questioning "am i dreaming right now, is this real" in a conscious waking state.. theres so many significant and easily noticeable differences from dreams and waking conscious awareness. If life could be a dream go ahead and manipulate reality, fill your bank with millions of dollars (mine too please), tey this one, hold your nose and close your mouth and try to breath... ill wait
No. At that point - as you know from reading the text - he considers the fact that he has often dreamed about things he takes (in the dream) to be real
Gregory B. Sadler it's as though you got no relief from work, although perhaps it would be a great dream if you love your job. At least for me, though, this is very much not the case.
