Responding to Game Theory's Persona 4 Video (Fixed Audio) 

Yeah he obviously did like, bare minimum research and even saying he did that much is reaching

@@LilKardboard pun intended with the “bare” minimum?

@@culpabledread5397 lmao I didn't even think about that

@@culpabledread5397 teeddie's voice:that's beary probable

I mean, maybe he meant it's not explained very much or very well lore-wise? Except that's also not true! Either way, yeah, he probably never played it.

it's p4 Morgana.

LOOKING SHIT, MATPAT.

Wait matpat was cool at some point ???????

@@SarahTheScottishBunny well yes but than hes was going down

@@SarahTheScottishBunny well yes, but actually no

Mother of God you're right

Oh shit.

NOW I FACE OUT I HOLD OUT I REACH OUT TO THE TRUTH OF MY LIFE SEEKING TO SEIZE ON THE WHOLE MOMENT YEAH

@@kueyteow6288 OH GOD LET ME OUT, CAN YOU LET ME OUT? CAN YOU SET ME FREE FROM THIS DARK INNER WORLD SAVE ME NOW, LAST BEAT IN THE SOUL

@@akinarii1 *Fuckin bangin guitar solo intensifies*

I mean, his Shadow DID Turn into a giant monster

G O L D E N

mat-pat made a comment on the video as an apology to anything he said wrong: Pinned by The Game Theorists The Game Theorists 2 years ago I'm sorry. I screwed up with this one. In a few facts and details, certainly, but also in ways that I didn't expect when writing it. And I don't want things to be taken the wrong way, so please, let me clarify: First, the intro was not intended to make fun of or belittle the fanbase of Persona in any way, and I'm sorry if it came across as mean spirited. Being protective of a franchise isn't a bad thing. I know from doing episodes on franchises like Dark Souls that there are just fanbases who are more amenable to theorizing than others and by choosing this episode, no matter what I would say, it would make some people angry (even if the facts had all been straight, which again, some weren't). I wrote that intro trying to play up the joke that it was a video no one would like, and in the process, I created a self-fulfilling prophesy that offended people and I'm sorry about that. It's never my intent to offend people. Maybe poke fun of in a joking way or call out for bad behavior (some other RU-vidrs), but it's never my goal to offend a group of people for liking what they like -- I'm sorry if it came off that way. Second, I clearly didn't go deep enough or understand everything as clearly as I thought I did. As with the Phoenix Wright episode (another misjudgment on my part), I thought this game would function well-enough as a stand-alone title, but clearly there were added details in other games as well as supplemental content that I just didn't take into consideration. There were a few facts in this one that I either forgot to double check because I assumed I knew them off the top of my head (Elizabeth) or I could have explained better (Izanami). Again, I should have gone deeper, but time constraints and thinking I had covered all the necessary ground made me stop looking when clearly I should have kept digging. Third, sorry for being defensive. My life this past weekend was incredibly stressful and sad, so having a video receive a heavy backlash in the middle of it all was the last thing I needed, which resulted in me losing my head. Please remember that I receive hundreds of comments every day telling me how awful I am as a person and how I should die because I said X about Y character and that 99% of the time I let it run off me, but sometimes it just gets to you. This weekend was one of those times, so I ask you to forgive that brief saltiness. And lastly, regarding how I handle criticism, I want you to know that I'm listening. All the time. I read the comments, and yes, I don't respond a lot because when I have in the past, people have taken my responses the wrong way. Instead, I take your comments to heart and try to adjust the programming and scripts on the channel accordingly. Heck, this whole episode was in an effort to try and address some people who were tired of hearing about the same franchises over and over again. It's a bit of a Catch-22. My policy always was "Read the criticism and make changes to the series based on the feedback, but never directly call it out." That only prompted a lot of backlash of people saying "He doesn't acknowledge criticism." So, I've tried addressing negativity in a public way, but people criticized me for doing that too saying I was "bad at taking criticism" because I did that. It often feels like a lose-lose situation. Just know that I'm not writing this to be defensive, but to sincerely apologize for the mistakes in this video, the lack of clarity in some of the jokes, and to promise you that I will continue to work at getting better about all these issues. - MatPat

@@Joseph-ch2cl Listen I love Mat but saying he listens and takes comments to heart is BS. Do you know who else says they listen, EA and they never change anything.

Eyyy

thanks buns, appreciate ya

SuperButterBuns I didn't expect to see you here.

Hi there buns. How are you doing?

Hey SuperButterBuns

Hello again

if this is correct i will be suprised

holy shit it is

This is probably the single best "No." I've ever heard.

Oh shit. This is a rare insult

Matpat: claims that teddie is Yu’s shadow Shadow yu in the animation and both the arena games + Shadow Teddie: “Are we a joke to you?”

That would mean MatPat acknowledge on his ego that he makes mistakes.

Matpat would pull a mitsuo and deny his shadow out of existence

The true reason why Mitsuo’s shadow disappeared is due to his real self getting so warped that you couldn’t tell them apart. He became his shadow.

It has been 2 years and this comment still gives me pain.

I want to *DIE*

its been 4 years and this comment still gives me pain..

it never gives me pain.

True

game theory is yu a clusterfuck

SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!

jesus fucking christ someone who actually knows how it works is right front of me

And also a shadow isn’t what the person must become but what they are but don’t want to face

@@davidtheweirdo613 and since you is supposed to be the player he *HAS* to except that kind of stuff, as well as the izunami stuff, which the prior would also be a good reason to why he just *gets* his persona.

Mystery solved! ....but it's totally just a theory guys, so like, I MAY be super smart for figuring it out, totally, but like not really, so no bully plz.

Eh I disagree

@@Luinta just bully the author and Matpat fanboys for laughs and giggles for being too childish than anyone else.

New theory: Matpat had never played a Persona game and is pulling all this out of his ass

You know it does feel like that

@@kepnoodles I mean Mat basically said both. Perhaps you should watch this video before blindly commenting.

@@kepnoodles Theories are meant to be discussed and criticized saying you've 100% solved it but then going, "oh hey guys no need to actually think about what I said because it's a theory." Also the dudes comment was a joke, I've seen you in the comments and you tend to miss people's jokes by literally taking everything they're saying at face value.

@@kepnoodles Ah really got me there, goes to show how Matpats fans handle criticism.

I'm exposing the theoretical factual truth of factual theorem

@@KraNisOG homes you have just exploded my mind with that statement

aneonfoxtribute actually this is probably why mat pat said “contradicting lore “ because in persona 1 and 2 the main characters personas coexist alongside with their shadows

Tho wasn’t that because Nyarlathotep created those shadows in their image so they weren’t their actual shadow?

SirXenon for persona 2 yeah but not so sure for persona 1since he was just a persona in that one

Xxoverlord xX actually in this case there's no contradiction, with Izanagi awakening Yu's shadow is effectively Izanagi (as seen in episode 26 of the persona 4 anime) we also know this in the game persona 4 since every time a shadow is tamed it became a persona EVERY TIME

Except yu didn't get his persona like others did, so you could make an argument that once yu was given his persona, his shadow became sentient

Really, thought it was Hitler with sunglasses

冯筠芷Frost Foong Kuan Zi whattttt????? I thought it was Stupei

I thought it was dude-bro-Junpei

冯筠芷Frost Foong Kuan Zi Yabadoth: Good, they don’t suspect a thing....

Who's Philemon? 🤔 - people who only played P5

I enjoyed reading this. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks, that was pretty good.

Well this is good BUT Yaldabaoth is actually closer to philemon himself than a shadow. Yaldaboath as well as Erebus are creations of the wild collective conscious due to their desire for one specific thing becoming so strong the collective conscious created an entire entity to fulfill their desire. Erebus for death and Yaldabaoth for a god, to be controlled. So if Yaldaboath were a shadow and Philemon is the collective conscious then Yaldabaoth would be Philemons shadow which doesnt work so Yaldabaoth has to be a different entity entirely.

An interesting addition to this is that Aigis loses the ability to summon her own Persona - depending on your Social Link with her in The Journey, either Athena or Paladian - when this happens, meaning her "true" Persona is lost in the creation of Metis, her Shadow, driving home the idea that Shadow and Persona are one in the same. Metis is Athena/Paladian, but can summon a Persona of her own due to retaining Aigis' built-in ability to do so. That's really interesting actually.

@@V2ULTRAKill isn't philemon technically everyone's shadow? Or at least the half of them that isn't nyarlatothep? Then that means yaldabaoth is like him but also a shadow that became too strong. Which is also what teddie is. His strange powera make a lot more sense now.

Oh right, I almost forgot about the whole "I don't want to be alone" thing AND the fight with Margaret to where u can see Shadow Yu

What Yu feared the most was him being all alone again. It happened after Izanami presented to him (in the anime) a perfect reality of him being with his friends to which Margaret somewhat snaps him out of however he’s not ready to accept it, thus with the Social Links he has built protecting him against Margaret until he regains his sense of self and reawakens to Izanagi and this could also be understood as a further understanding and him awakening to Izanagi-no-Okami.

where's his shadow in the game?

Just like Minato and Ren, he doesn't have one. None of the Persona protagonists after 2 have one.

Well, there is a video saying that gameplay-wise, Yu's shadow is Adachi.

Xuanhoi Do not really xD I think matpats Teddy is Yu's shadow makes way more sense and it's not even a good theory. So yeah....

Jaz Tenchi Have you watched this video?

I agree, Lucifer=teddie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shadow Yu=teddie.

Nah eigor is

Stunfisk Friend Okay but seriously, it’s the only recurring location with the only recurring character and the only recurring bit of music in every single game. Igor and the Velvet Room always has huge story presence, it’s literally impossible to “overlook” its importance

Leighton Petty And it has THREE recurring characters, not just one. They’re off screen in 3,4, and 5, but the song is being performed by actual canon characters. That’s why in 5 there’s speakers.

@@emery-gaming who, the Velvet Attendants?

19 martincito Nameless and Belladonna, Nameless plays the piano, Belladonna sings the vocals

The only one who overlooked the velvet room was matpat by completely misunderstanding it.

NO MORGANA IS RYUJI SHADOW OF HARU SHADOW! if you confused what this means its not supposed to make sense

@@whydoiexist2180 But it turns out that everybody from p3 onwards is Nyarlethotep persona of his shadow

Kenji is Makoto's shadow because he has a social link with him.

Nah. Morgana is Joker’s shadow. Why else, would Mona be so fixated on his sleep schedule?

Wait, if I maxed out my confident with yusuke, does that mean that yusuke is my appendix?

1 year late, but he's got a point.

@@19martincito73 1 week late, but I agree

@@loserinasuit7880 2 days late, but I concur

@Leroy Macias 2 days late and I agree, but at least he's not Morgana

@@casuallectures2655 4 days late, it's simpgana

SketchyAkechi Wonder what his Palace would be.

Nosher Khan i think it would be a lab

Game Knight It would be, but the walls and tools would all be made out of cardboard and crayola marker, as Matpat thinks he's some brilliant IQ of 140 logician but is rather a child that only appeals to other children. Shame too, he really had potential, but apparently he had a larger ego to boot.

For the boss maybe it can work like bosses in P5 with one teammate leaves to go disproving his “theories” which before then he would make up theories that make him right but then the teammate would disprove him and then you beat the ever living shit out of him

David Lynn Your teammate would run off to do a preliminary google or wiki search that would make his theory crumble. While his theory is in effect, it would provide him status buffs and your party would be given debuffs

Maria Galimova *Loki is actually just evil arsene*

Canon intensifies

Maria Galimova Next April Fools?

Maria, hey your theory makes more sense then matpats

No, then Matpat's gonna make a theory that involves Akechi and include a lot of wrong information that will make the April Fools video look like it had more research put into it

Yes and by the same logic the phantom thieves are amamiya's shadow, finally someome gets it

@@mauroramondo5855 So Yu's shadow is actually the Investigation Team's shadow, it all makes sense

The real shadow was the friends we made along the way

@Nigel Francis Yaldabaoth is Joker’s shadow

@@TheBrutalSax o my god the wings prove it

Too late, 13 years too late.

Bruh, there is a surprising amount of nanako pron. I'm scared, send help.

She is best sister and needs to be protected at all costs

SleepyMcCree ummmmmmmmm how do you know that

Key BRUH! I saw one, got curious, and found a lot of it. I didn’t beat my meat that day.

That makes sense. Too bad he didn't just "fuck up a little bit" in this case

Or you know he was just interested with the teddy thing

yeah it even did the contract words at the tutorial fight

Oh I see...so he really did not play the game..

@@user-garnet well to be fair, the only time it was explained a persons shadow is their persona was in 3

@@V2ULTRAKill correction, it was only explained in the Answer, and not even early on so only people who truly care about the serie will know that, and I doubt MatPat has that kind of care

@@tristasue8959 Actually, As early as Yosuke's persona, he accepts his shadow, his shortcomings, and his shadow becomes his persona, so in the same game, Matpat's busted.

Matt openly admitted that the sans is ness theory was a joke for fun and that he didn't believe in it I am so sick of people bringing up that theory when criticizing his work. Hell, he even uploaded a video called "Why I Gave the Pope UNDERTALE" where he opened the video making fun of that theory.

hollow knight fans in the background: heh new things new controversy

"NeSs Is SaNs!!11!!!"

Loved when his entire Metroid fusion theory was based around false information, or the assumption that the game never explained a specific event (which it did, it's a very obvious dialogue that you can't miss unless you're skipping the story). I like watching game theory's videos, but people really need to stop with this bullshit argument of "bro, it's just a theory", a theory isn't an excuse to not knowing the bare minimum about a series, the whole point of a theory is gather the information you have in order to fill the gaps of something, you can't pull shit out of your ass and expect people not to dislike it. "It's just a theory" "Yeah, a bad theory that falls apart when you spend 15 minutes actually looking the lore of something"

​@@Dead_Pegasus that sounds a bit like he's playing Schrodinger's Asshole but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt

Andrew Kos I didn't even play P4 and I knew he was just wrong.

PhantomDragon1992 Same. I've just briefly read the plot synopsis and the Hiimidaisy comic but I know more than Mat.

Andrew Kos like really is anyone suprise the past videos he be wrong over and over stating fake shit and people are suprise his theory is wrong no shit he isnt a game theoriest anymore hes a freaking lier

PhantomDragon1992 I played 4 to see Margaret feel Yu up and it's behind a black screen

Could you guys be more pedantic?

I've never played the games, but I've actually read through the wiki because I found Persona so interesting. Even then, I could tell there was something off about his theory.

Yeah I never played the game, but watched a playthrough and already felt the theory was a bit off. It's like there were a lot more factual errors than usual.

Josh d he seems to skim the surface for a lot of his theories often ignoring other parts of a franchise to make his theory seem right.

He only looks for info to make up a theory without looking at refuting evidence. This was very apparent to me when he did his Ace Attorney theory way back, and I've stopped watching him since then. It became obvious to me that he makes his theories without any passion for the franchise or enough respect to the fans of those franchises to do a proper in depth theory.

With almost 10M suscribers, i found this really unfortunate.

>You decided to sleep

@@luminosity01 >You awaken feeling sick...

+2 guts

>You feel an urge to read that painful book again instead of this

>you watched game theory while eating Nanako's science project.

ye

nah its a tie between the trashcan yuskue felled into and naoto's hat

Fun fact, there's deleted dialog that suggests Yosuke had a romantic option that was scrapped.

I actually agree to that.

yes

@Jacket nah, Sojiro is best dad

Please don’t jinx it.

Game Theory.. Please DO touch Persona again. It's hilarious seeing how bad they can fuck it up.

no... just... please... 🤢

Please don’t touch Danganronpa too. And I’m saying this for his sake. He won’t like the despair inducing shit the fans can make

brudda No. Touch it more. Make me laugh...

Help Error Yep P.s the reason that’s all I replied Is because I really have nothing to say about this comment, just want to acknowledge your idea!

The real theory that should’ve been made that has no answer would’ve been: “Who did Teddie use to be a part of?” The answer is that we don’t know and that Teddie has always existed in the Midnight Channel as a sentient Shadow.

*suppressed traits boiling over. A shadow isn't *just* what you wanna say but can't. It's what you wanna say but yelled out loud. Kanji wishes he'd be more free from male stereotypes (do not get into the sexuality business it's meant to be ambiguous there is no wrong answer, I WILL BONK ) but instead of just being him free to enjoy cute shit and knitting and stuff it's a straight effeminate ideal of himself. Like, the man presumably wouldn't wanna be naked surrounded by burly men in front of his friends, but his shadow sure seems to be having the time of its life. This is just something that feeds so much into the misrepresentation of persona 4. Your shadow is your true self qualitatively, NOT quantitatively. The whole point is marying your ego (your conscious self) with your id (your shadow) and your superego (the persona) to be a whole version of yourself. Sorry for being a pedant, I know you probably know this shit and I'm preaching to the choir, but the many people who don't might read your comment and find it reinforces their view of persona 4's shadow and by fucking god if someone corrects me on naoto being a cis woman again I will bite into a fucking desk. If she's trans, she also wants to go cyborg and become a surgeon. I swear to god

Unless it's Fnaf, because those games are built on fan speculation

Eh…I only see his vids as entertaining because I’m too dumb to understand the science behind some of his vids.

Was that a Reviewbruh reference?!

As someone who played P1 to P5 multiple times and delve so deep in the lore. I welcome a fellow Persona Lord Nerd.

I'm not even a Persona fan and I was disgusted, too.

he never played the game and only did research on a certain number. I was and still only dedicated to persona 3 which is why i researched and played everything related and connected to it which took me to the WHOLE FRANCHISE.

KazeAce Most of Matpats theories are written by other people too. Not that there's anything wrong with it since he's a big channel but thats what makes his theories feel so corperate and artificial. Honestly I only watch Gaijin Goomba cause he actually CARES about his videos. And from watching his videos on Persona, I can tell he actually has a lot of love for the franchise.

Eric E Teddie is Lucifer is the truer theory

YOUR FUCKING PROFILE PICTUE

JESUS CHRIST WHATS THAT THING

Deyvan Salez SAME

OMG YOUR PFP

that would be hillarious I hope that happens

Protoform X He Better Not Even Try he thought the Persona fanbase was threatening the SMT fanbase would come to his house and burn it down while blasting One More God Rejected. Also if he ever does a theory on the Souls Games with no proof Vaddi needs to expose him.

Crazy how Nyx would go from the one who kills everybody on earth (except for 6 people apparently) to a bar tender in Ginza. And to potentially a follower of some high school kid with a magic bug inside him given by Lucifer.

I thought the same thing but with SMT5 BOY IT'S GOING TO BE A FUCKING DISASTER But he will do the same thing He will not do a theory about smt5 but smt 4 or smt 3 ooofff But Probably he will never touch a Atlus title ever again and that's a bad thing because he will never learn from his mistakes And we losing memes of course

Even metaphorically that wouldn't make sense. A shadow isn't someone's opposite, ironically, it's the opposite of their opposite. A legitimate part of themselves that they push away. Shadow Yosuke wasn't the opposite of Yosuke, it was the part of himself that he not only didn't want anyone to see, but didn't even accept himself. Adachi is a foil to Yu, the other side of the same coin, but he's not another part of him.

@@SSL_2004 I think that's why he said metaphorically, to sum up everything you said in a simple sentence, and I agree both with your explanation as well as with Rednaroks simplification

An actually civil conversation between persona/smt fan. I have never dreamed of seeing this

Kool Biscuit his points are disproven by the simple fact that a person’s shadow becomes their persona. So Izanagi and Teddie couldn’t exist at the same time.

he basically said he RESEARCHED it and he commented that he only RESEARCHED PERSONA 4 ALONE, he basically read persona 4 Wikipedia and made this video.

Actually you dont even need to finish Persona 4 to disprove this video. Exactly what Shinjiro above said.

That's not entirely true since Yu can have multiple persona, which is because Yu is a blank slate who can be given multiple personalities by you, the player.. That's why he didn't have a shadow. That's the entire point of the game.

But thats his wild card power coming from his bonds with others, while that is the point of the game doesn't stop Yu from having his own persona that represents his ego, just like every persona MC

Ruski Doggo This comment... man this comment has me laughing at the thought of it for so long.

oh god extra credits and tumblr flashbacks

Don't forget, Kanji is gay guys!! Totally not a guy who likes cute things.

SlashingHades aaaw damn, they actually said that. I fucking forgot.

Actually Kanji's sexuality is open to player interpretation.

Also your shadow is your persona, how would yu awaken izanagi if he didnt already accept himself

@@V2ULTRAKill exactly makes no sense

We've never been waiting for this!

Now's our chance for an all out debunk! Attack [X] Relent [O]

*Pretendng to be shock

Baribefe Boss *GET BACK HERE, YOU SUNUVA*

Big Boss *IT’LL BE A MASSACRE*

it’s a gaslighting technique, yeah. he really just wants that money, and the video kinda proves it. who wants to become the phantom thieves for a day and steal matpat’s heart? >.>.

@@mamamarz2190 we dont know where he lives

yo this man spittin' strait facts

@@michaeljames6737 we don't necessarily need to know, all we need to know is what place he sees as what. If the location is where he lives, i'm sure we can convince some of the game theory staff to spill the beans

You won't pay attention to this, but yes the guy that has spent hours on charities, admits he's wrong without thought in the live streams, and has said on multiple occasions his theories aren't meant to be totally correct. Yes he's the manipulative villain in it for only himself. Like even if you think that, despite giving no proof, how would the charity guy protecting his job be a bad thing?

Y E S. N O Q U E S T I O N S A S K E D

Yes and that’s not a theory it is T H E T R U T H

The truth it is guys

Yes

this isn’t a theory it’s just true.

lol. Matpat doesn't even touch upon the very basis of a shadow once just so his theory can work

That is of cause, one of the biggest flaws here. And it's very clear in the case of Persona 4 that "The shadow is the part of you, you don't want to accept"

Turns out he's a furry.

His human form is kinda hot tho

Yu is ashamed of being a very bishie furry? Him being the ultimate chad according to the fanbase suddenly becomes interesting

Sem Nikitin There is actually a story reason if you account P1 and P2. Personas get weaker if you dont use them hence why P1 characters that joined forces with P2 characters have their Personas devolved to their initial form.

Nekotori Hmm that’s an interesting bit of info, does it actually explain how long that entails as well? Or how severe it can get? Or is that about it for info?

that and also ITS SYMBOLICAL!!!

Nekotori P4U and P4AU happen a about month or two after P4 ends. I don't think it's enough time for Investigation Team's personas to become weaker. The game even happens before the Golden epilogue.

Sem Nikitin P4U is about a month and a half after the final boss of P4. Interestingly, The Answer is exactly two months after the final boss of P3, and although the personas did get weaker (with being out of practice being the handwave-y explanation), they didn’t devolve. We could hunt for some reason that the P3 group lasted longer, or we could just ignore the inconsistencies because honestly the specifics don’t matter lol

It can be construed in a lot of different ways. Yu's a big city boi who is both simulatenously under his depth and out of his depth.

Arempy 58 THEY WERE HIDING THE TRUTH IN PLAIN SIGHT

Lol I literally made a post on the persona Reddit saying what I felt the true endings led onto to, and people thought I was wrong but we're polite and we had a nice conversation. If I was mattpatt I'd go "fuck u you hear my random things I said when I watched some clips of the game and never played it"

That's why I prefer MatPats theiries compared to other people's. I know a lot of them are wrong, and get debunked, but I dunno. I'm just attracted to it somehow.

@@KraNisOG yeah but he's not presenting theories, he's attempting to boost his ego no matter what, a theory needs criticism to become closer to truth

I mean... it’s just a theory. He makes his theories entertaining to watch.

I used to like MatPat a lot, but this was just too much of a 'jumping the bandwagon on something that's popular'. I would be okay with him not playing the game or not knowing much about the series if he took a bit more time to recheck his facts. The moment he said "the velvet rooms from persona 1,2 and 3 are pretty much the same" I felt insulted lol.

TrueAuraGuardian True

"more accepting of criticism and admitting where he was wrong and improving in the future" You've never watched GTLive have you? Because Mat and Steph make fun of his theories all the time, and talk about how they improve, and help other channels improve. Like all the time, your comment has 0 basis in fact.

You're trying to twist my words or are making the assumption that I don't believe MatPat doesn't take criticism. This is not the case in the slightest. Now I'm not going to lie, I don't watch GTLive. I'm aware that MatPat accepts criticism and such. However, it's hardly addressed in videos, which would lead people to believe that he's not acting on the criticisms that are left in comments of the videos. Also, aside from the last statement that you chose to cherry pick out of the rest of my comment, I would say my comment does have a very solid basis considering the context of the majority of said comment.

Oh I don't mind if you don't like the theory or whatever, or even if you don't like Matpat, I know nothing about Persona to comment on it, I was just pointing out that that was a blatant falsehood. And I wasn't twisting your words, I was using an exact quote, if that's not what you meant, then you wrote it wrong.

Eh you're kinda right on that

Crimbo Combo miu actually is smart tho, she just doesn't have self confidemce. I'd even go far as to say she had the best talent out of the v3 cast

she’s smart but obviously not as smart as kokichi🤤poor bby😔

Yep minus the lewd

I mean in the first case she actually says monokumas the culprit to the first murder. Which he is plus she is an inventor shes actually smarter than people give her credit for

@@weirdlittlecritter great user name but now im petrified to leave my home

Yes

RU-vid isn’t exactly a job, especially in this day & age. Edit: If I were a P4 character, I’d be coming to terms with the fact that my life sucks.

@@oriongear2499 depends on the person. it IS a job for particularly big youtubers getting sponsorships + merch + earnings from patreon & the like. the average person making youtube videos isn't doing it as a job but for people like matpat (who has been doing this for YEARS & has a sizable following, along with spin-off channels) it can definitely be a job

The best part is put Justice as the Arcana and not Judgement, but Matpat would totally have no idea he put the wrong person to the wrong Arcana

@@amandachristen3454 I feel like it would've been so funny if he made basically the same thing for Ren and Akechi only for P5R to say no more automatic Confidant

Provide snapshots.

yeah your comment was getting circulated around my discord, was a good comment

Unless a lot of the earlier top commenters chose to delete their's Mat was deleting a lot of comments on his Persona video which does not help him in the slightest bit.

If your comment still exist please just link it here. Click on the "minutes ago" part of your comment and it'll "highlight" it

Oh yeah I remember replying “Teddie is Lucifer>Teddie is Yu’s shadow” or something like that

Don't be sorry this is a very good point.

My thought exactly.

I'm not entirely sure if the fact that it's canon disproves his dumb grasping-at-straws assertion. Since his point is "Teddie ALWAYS shows up so he HAS to be his shadow!1!!"

Yes, that's an awesome point! You can even disprove this point he made the other way around - gameplay-wise Teddy is the only (single person) story social link, and if there wasn't a link like that, you coldn't get the true ending unless you maxed one of the other (technically optional) ones. So you could say that putting Teddy there was a way to let the player choose what they wanted to do with their free time as well.

Sachiko yeah, that's definitely a good point.

I mean, that's not the canon reason he doesn't have a shadow.

@@JayAreAitch but that's the reason for the main game it's not for the spin offs and anime

Arisato the Shib But it's NOT the CANON reason. The in-universe reason is not "P4MC is a stand-in for the player", because the player is not canon to P4.

@@JayAreAitch yeah, it's not cannon. I never meant it to be cannon in the whole persona universe.

@@triho269It's not canon to any of the series. It's not relevant when discussing the actual mechanics of the universe. And it's "Canon", not "Cannon".

Old comment but even though the matt patt theory is just off, it's just weird how very little of Metis was mentioned (which could have helped his point but didn't take that opportunity) which we know she is aigis's shadow and how just when she appears aigis awakens to Orpheous as a gift from the MC. the Anime and the base game do straight up decomfirm teddie being Yu's shadow end off however what could have been a better theory to work off is that Metis, Teddie and Morgana are all connected of being a guide to their respective teams where all of them are created/formed from a shadow and the velvet room gave them their own conciousness that can explain how the 3 know the velvet room so well

I want that, that'd be the best, just seeing him in a shop doing the shopping for the velvet room attendant

In Persona 6, Cheems Dog is Wojaks Shadow.

We know velvet room attendants are capable of making the velvet room accessible, if I recall Margaret made a fortune telling booth out of it for a school culture festival

Does Persona Q count? Where the other members of the Investigation Team and/or SEES could enter the Joint Velvet Room?

@@briggsgametime maybe. Persona Q happens because part of some death god is not happy that the rest of it did not do it’s job right, and then pulled the cast of P3 and P4 in to the pocket dimension for some reason.

@Jacob Sutton Scratch Akechi, dude's got his own confidant now

The entire P3 cast also visit the Velvet Room at the end of FES

Luca Feghali I wholeheartedly agree with this. That vid was when I unsubbed from him.

Matpat used to be enjoyable to watch but nowadays, not so much.

the one that made me watch less of him lose respect from him is his star trek video( seroiusly the guy coudln’ t tell the difference from communism and facism so munch that the star trek faceplam gif isn’t enough)

Yea the Ace Attorney theory is where I drew the line and unsubscribed from him.

You are incorrect. He finished the game, only the first game though, so he didn't know that that scene was coming. I can see why you'd unsub after that though.

you and other did the right choice because for some of us giving him a second chance was big mistake!

He was very wrong in saying that Ness is Sans. Sans is, in fact, Ness.

Rad Master Same

Rad Master I stopped at either the "mario is mental" video, or the Rosalina video(he couldn't even pronounce her f@&$ing name right).

I didn't watch his videos for a while. But I completely dropped him after the Logan Paul Vs KSI video. I stayed too long.

doN’T-

He's everyone shadow

Yeah, but also he put up a burning torch, which has a connotation to it

yeah, like, that doesn't make sense

Your question doesnt work because Morgana is clearly explained in game, but also awakenings in 5 are consistent, even jokers. Im not defending matpats video, merely pointing out a flawed line of questioning.

He also had the contact with Yu.

It's been a year, so thankfully he hasn't

Or if he does, make a actually good theory

@@freemanthedelphox6249 I can unfortunately see it now, was [P5R's Last Palace Ruler] right all along? (Add about 3 red arrows and a circle and there's the thumbnail) God I hope this doesn't become a "Thing That Has Aged Poorly"

@@FriendlyNeighborhoodSayori yeah

Because he's embarrassed

Funny how one of the first things Teddie says in the game is that the TV world is his home lol

@@joaoassumpcao3347 Funny how that in p4d (or a) it's confirmed that Teddy currently lives in Yosukes closet

At the end there, did you mean P4 the Animation or Arena Ultimax? Bc that's what it is in the anime but I haven't played ultimax

@@dizzydaisy909 referring to ultimax. It’s in p4a, but I don’t like referring to the adaptations. Tho p4a was def better than p5a.

@@M9_Lu yes

@@dizzydaisy909 the tv stack is either an entrance or a victory animation for shadow-type yu in ultimax, i can't remember which

@@dededeletethis9940 it might be a reference to the anime in that case

Persona to me is kinda like the sonic fan base 85% of the people in it are decent people and 15% are unbearable assholes but newcomers and non fans mostly see the 15%

He's joking get the fuck over it

If anyone cares, I personally think this is the case because of the physical appearance of Teddie's human form, Bebe's personality being that of Teddie's (except, Bebe knows of social norms and holds himself back), and both having the habit of referring to people they respect (the protagonist of their respective games) something differently than the others. Bebe feels the need to refer to the P3 protagonist as "-sama", after the first time that the protagonist impresses him. Teddie feels the need to refer to the P4 protagonist as "-sensei" after the first time that the protagonist impresses him. On top of that, Bebe is a weeb. Not in a joking manner, but he is in fact a serious weeaboo. He is obsessed with Japanese culture and basically wants to be Japanese, to the point where he is jealous of his crazy teacher coming to class wearing a samurai helmet. This is in line with Teddie's uncertainty as to who he is, only knowing where he came from and where he wants to be from. Bebe is from France, but wants to be from Japan. Teddie is from the shadow world, but wants to be from the human world. Hell, Bebe becomes sad about his aunt's death mostly because that would mean he would be forced to return to France, even though he was very lonely in Japan. Likewise, Teddie is a very lonely person who, despite ending up as a social butterfly, doesn't really interact with anyone outside the cast. Even when they go to a festival, you'd imagine that he'd run around having fun, but instead he demands to stick with the party members. When the party members go on their vacation, Teddie can't stand the feeling of being left alone, even though there are other people still in Inaba and he's basically been adopted by Yosuke's dad. Likewise, even when he went back for his aunt's funeral, he apparently immediately started gathering funds for a return trip back to Japan. Bebe is furthermore, prominently a member of the Fashion club, and likes to create accessories. Teddie is frequently shown making accessories in the form of the glasses, and likes to style each one to fit the fashion of the individual team members rather than making all the glasses look the same. My personal idea is that a few years after P3 ended, Bebe came back to Japan not knowing that the P3 protagonist died. After all, Bebe was very "lonely" in Japan, not really having true friends there with the sole exception of the P3 protagonist. After finding out about the death, Bebe felt lost, and fell into depression, essentially losing himself and falling into a spiral of "Who am I? Do I matter?" especially since nobody else really cared for who he was as a person, only hanging out with him because he was a frenchman and thus interesting for being different. Just like how Teddie was obsessed with what he was rather than who he was, while being terrified of the idea of who he was.

This guy made a better theory that Matpat lol

Except that shadow yu is in the anime, and in arena. Yu has a shadow the reason he doesnt have to face it is because he already accepts himself so when Izanami gives Yu "the potential" he immediately summons Izanagi (personas are the shadow of the person) with relative ease.

Actually, i think shadow Yu not wanting to leave inaba is connected to the fact that the player probably doesn't want to end the game (aka post game depression)

Or, even easier answer, Teddie is also part of Yu's contract.

@@V2ULTRAKill And look at that no personaility choices for players

@@TechBlade9000 and look at that Its a jrpg player choice isnt part of the formula here.

Mr. Pokirby His theory fits Ninten more than Ness. And even then it is a stretch

Except it's not, the two have a connection Also from tobyfoxes idea sans could be ness when you take into account that the man is a giant fan of mother, so much so that he references allot of it in undertale

Thats like saying Yu is Jotaro because the two series share similar elements and is likely inspired by jojo's bizzare adventure

Papa SMoke except no its not, story wise yu and teddy share a connection

How exactly?

SPOLIERS FOR P5 And after the phantom thieves are erased from the worlds cognition we get them in the velvet room and even if its technically outside the velvet room they do come in the part joker stays in

@@greenblocker7316Can that part of the game really be considered a spoiler at this point? I mean P5’s been out for 6 years (around 7 if you’re in Japan), while P5R’s been out for 3 years (around 4 years if you’re in Japan).

@@oriongear2499 better to be safe then sorry

Omnislash His theory is stupid, but he isn't wrong about that. Izanami is literally a GOD. So really its one of the few things he got right, he probably just didn't want to spoil the ending.

Actual battle quote from Izanami: "I... am a god"

RevolvingWorld ... But he already spoiled most of the game, so he could just be clueless.

Wonder how he'd react to using Satan to save Christmas

Yes, yes they did. Hence why the P4 gang doesn't have their upgraded personas in Arena.

@@NEETKitten I know it's been awhile, but doesn't Arena take place only two months after leaving Inaba? It takes place during Golden Week, which is in April/May and they even reference the Arena games in the True/Golden Ending. Like, two months really isn't that much time if you ask me.

@@DarkGreen98 Idk, maybe the TV World fuckery made their personas revert after it was "purified".

By that logic, the shadow operatives should've reverted to their base personas in arena too. The reason why they use the base personas in arena (and in strikers, for that matter) is that a) they're easier to design/animate and b) they're more iconic than the evolved forms. Like, most people would agree that goemon is cooler than kamu susano-o.

@@dededeletethis9940 the reason the Shadow Ops still have their ultimate personas while the others don't is simple, they're the only team that had their evolutions tied to story progression. Having the P4/P5 Ultimate Personas show up in the spinoffs would serve to "canonize" which links were and weren't maxed out and is probably intentionally left out to not upset people fighting over which of their "waifus" was canon by simply making none canon

DING DING DING Your shadow and your persona are the same thing

Your misspelling of losing proves your point.

rut roh

The dream sequence already allows you to summon Izunagi, just shrouded in the fog.

If his employees is a big fan of persona why would Matpat straightup made fun of Persona fans? Why he got his theories wrong if the employee is a big fan of persona?

I have no clue, but I'm 80% sure this theory was made by other person.

Jorge González Likely but it was more likely made because Persona 5 became uber popular, and so someone working for him or he himself wanted to make a theory based on it to play off of it's popularity and when interest would increase do to the anime recently coming out. So they do a quick Google search for Persona theories and find some Teddie theories and someone lazily decides what the theory and it's outcome should be Teddie being His shadow, and then they look for evidence to support their theory threw the wiki and forum posts. No one properly proof reads it as they want to send the video out when it will get the most clicks, so waiting too long might hurt their potential add revenue, as Matpat has been known to care about RU-vid's algorithms and how to game them. And they view there views as being literally entertainment and not something to be taken seriously, which is an easy way to deflect critisms of being lazy when making videos and not actually knowing what you are talking about.

"I don't actually believe the crap I'm spouting, it's just outsourced opinions that I'm reading out loud and pretending is right." Oh yeah, that's totally better. Lol.

Game Theorists has become another corporate brand like the Fine Bros.

Yes. In the Metaverse you can only see a shadow in its own palace.

@@JayAreAitch Aren't the shadows of less corrupt individuals in mementos though?

DragonMaster537 I'm referring to the Shadow Self, which is when you get a yellow-eyed doppelganger. Also did you like your own comment lul

@@dragonmaster5377 Well, Mementos is everybody's palace.

J H Futaba had that really weird case where she activated the nav and her shadow appeared in her bedroom to tell her to realize the truth or else she’ll kill the phantom thieves in the other world. Even though I’ve played the game a few times I have no idea what’s up with that

That’s actually a solid point and flew over my head after watching this video until you mentioned it. Hmm, that is interesting.

Chris O'Neill It's even weirder when you consider that Goro says that he got given his persona, so I can only assume Yaldy (I forget the spelling) just granted it to him like Izanami did Adachi. My only guess is that he was hoping Ren would die before his 'game' started or that he wanted Goro to have a huge lead. Other than that, I have no clue

Ace ProdeJ It doesn’t really matter in this case, but it’s Yaldabaoth. :) But yeah, that’s interesting. I remember Goro getting one like that and that also flew over my head like the Pancake thing (which I feel like almost 95% of the playerbase noticed that immediately). That’s some good insight D00D!

Chris O'Neill Thank you for the spelling, I'll just copy-past that ;) Aw shucks, you're gonna make me blush, I just think too deeply into things. Let's not even go into delicious pancakes because I will never not find the fact that his plan was foiled by breakfast funny

He acually is still a special snowflake because he has NO personal problem with the person who 'caused' his awakening while everyone else had a personal problem with the ruler of the palace. Ryujis Tracker career got destroyed, that teacher broke his fucking leg with the intend to do so! Ann is an victim of Mr.Asshole in many ways to make her friend happy and be in the vollyball team, Yusuke was used and lied to by his mentor who also 'killed' his mother and stole her most important and personal picture! Lets cut here, you know the game like me. But the point is, Akira had no connection to Mr. Asshol Teacher and his whole awakening was more like "Hey, i´m Arsene and this is How To Summon Your Persona 101" and a bit of "This is the only right thing to do!"

“…a god touched him because they…” Izanami is female.

Dw, in the next P4 lore Yu will accept Teddie and then Yu will have a persona who has a persona

Teddie doesn't just have a shadow, he is a shadow

@@grayscalegolden8843 why teddie have a shadow in the first place? Before becoming human

@@joaoassumpcao3347 AND the the persona Will have a Shadow of beign the number 2 of a number 2 AND Will have a persona

@@ReiChiquita567 1 year late but it's due to ameno Sagiri, rise talks about how something had been interfering when shadow Teddie appeared