The new US battleships are very disappointing to me for more than one reason. The US Battleship line split is just that, a split instead of a 2nd tech tree branch. This leaves out at least 3-4 real ships that could've been in the branch, but they aren't. Despite there being many US BB designs to pull from for a line, both real steel and proposed (I remember people mentioning back in Alpha/Beta there was enough US BBs for 3 full lines, I guess that fact has been dropped and/or ignored), the tier VIII Kansas and the tier IX Minnesota are both based off the same design, the 1920s South Dakota class, which for some reason neither use the name South Dakota despite the name not existing in game yet. Among the other historical inaccuracies for the Tier VIII and IX, the Tier X Vermont which is somewhat based off Tillman I is kit-bashed past the point of making any reasonable sense. The tier VII Florida has French style quads (which are really just two doubles in the same turret) instead of KGV style 4-gun turrets without any precedent for the US to use the French style quads. This game also once again misses the opportunity to give US ships a Great White Fleet premium camo. This line is is almost if not more poorly handled than the RN CAs were. Overall with how half baked this line split is I'd honestly rather wait another year to get a real and well done 2nd US BB line. In respect to the video, I find it weird that the video talks about Senator Tillman, and Maximum battleships so much when only Vermont is a kit-bashed "inspired by" version of Tillman I, whereas Kansas and Minnesota are both based off the South Dakota 1920s with the wrong guns.
@@RichardHardslab the thing with this ship is that it is the slowest bb in tier 10 so HE spammers can farm it longer and with a gigantic superstructure, you can't really miss it.
@@TwisterTLT1 not worth the trouble. You give up so much just to get guns that reload every 40 seconds. While your ship is always slow and heavily reliant on your team to be useful.
and all three seem to have been sunken in a paralel universe's 1941 Pearl Harbor attack, then got successfull salvaged, repaired and rebuilt alongside West Virginia, California, and few other ships, and sent back to active duty between 1943 and 1945, no less :D
The Vermont Kansas and Minnesota were Connecticut class built between 1903 and 1907. They were pre-dreadnoughts. The 1920's South Dakota class were 6 ships laid down in 1920 but were never built because of Treaty restrictions. There was a South Dakota Class around 1940 which were "fast battleships" and consisted of the S. Dakota, Massachusetts, Indiana and Alabama.
On a side note, I wonder why they chose the name Kansas and not South Dakota/South Dakota (1920) or Indiana. Probably for insurance in case they ever add the rest of the actual South Dakotas in the game? But in this case I don't know how they would differentiate them from Alabama and Mass.
@@airglide2 Actually that is how the US Battleships were named. Every class every ship was named after a state. Submarines have since taken over that tradition.
Imagine releasing a line of ships that is already outclass by other ships that do the same but better and dont strugle so much against their main counter.. HE spamers
I play the Kansas to make easy coin. I got mine by grinding and getting it as a reward. I like its ability too swap commanders with no penalty. Ive got 400,000xp on her so it should allow me too buy the next tier up available. The Kansas is a slow bitch but if you follow a battle ship or two its easy cleanup many times. Thing takes almost 3 minutes too make a 180 though and the 40 second reload time is absurd.
Nah the way how play them is just sink.. that simple you want a quick way to get to Davy Jones? Look no further these guys are guaranteed death sentences.
What way jet said, in my first kansas game I was near death but was able to bait an Alabama into sailing right next to me while I pretended to be focused on another ship. Then when it was too late for him I spun around and rammed him.
Because they are slow and they are not narrow they dont have to much lateral water resistance and thus can maneuver easily when compared to Bismarck or Georgia.
Moving at high speed makes you turn worse. I think you have experienced this in life by riding a bike or driving a car. Also longer things turn worse. Example: container trucks vs 4-seat cars.
The one viable way I have found to play these things (Kansas at least) is to max out concealment & survivability skills, make the turret rotation as fast as possible (WD-40 that shit), and then do what you can to improve AA (this was written before I watched video)
what this line should have been: very strong armor with thick plating everywhere like the soviets, US improved heal as well as it being quick reloading (like Massachusetts) and the choice to mount hydro acoustic search in the same slot as defensive AA, a short duration engine boost (like Smaland) and 1.9 sigma on all of them and maybe 10 km secondaries. then you would have slow moving fortresses of doom that can take a fight against anything thrown against them while having the low speed and vulnerability to CVs as one of its primary weaknesses.
If it already has Soviet level armor, there is no need for the US improved heal, just give it standard heal. Also, there's no reason to give it hydro, let that be the gimmick of German BBs, instead, just give it a DfAA. Also, increase speed to 25kt, Tillmann ships were designed to go at least 25kts so that would make the new ships more historically accurate, as much as that's worth. With 25kt speed, it'll still be on the slow side, but not incredibly so, so also get rid of the speed boost, no need for that. A brawling BB might work, since the new Oklahoma is kind of one, but then they'd just outclass the German BBs in almost every way so I'd personally keep the secondaries short ranged.
I got the Kansas during the event and was not impressed - too slow, too long reload and very inaccurate main guns with very poor penetration. I expect that I will have the Minnesota researched in the year 2050 as the Kansas will be used to knock off snowflakes. At that time though - the glorious Mongolian navy will have been introduced.
Oh I had fun destroying Kansas players in the Amagi. Citadeled them left and right. Won brawls with them every time. And with little angling I sat there and watch their entire volleys bounce off of me. They were at 10 km away.
i am fairly new to the game and had to make the decision like many other players at Tier 8 either Super Dreadnoughts or the legendary fast battleships. i took the Dreadnoughts and must say they are absolutely amazing. Slow on speed yes, Slow on turns yes, High dispersion of shells yes BUT: The damage is just awesome! if you know how to shoot, you can take a ship out without him even seeing you. And i also love to see destroyers and cruisers turning around and trying to escape after they saw that their torpedoes didn't take me down haha! I'm very happy with the dreadnoughts and cant wait to take the Vermont to battle! Good luck players and keep battling!!
Way to "balance" these ships... If these ships were truly balanced, enemy cruisers and battleships alike wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell. Edit: I just realized, these BBs would also completely chew through planes. But of course, the... Aherm, "gentleman" at wargaming would absolutely regret blaspheming the CV God's, wouldn't they? "CVs. The class of ships for people who absolutely can't be bothered." -jingles
Soviet super dreadnoughts: *get 27kt top speed and 33 sec reload on 16in guns. WG: "Is balanced." Also WG: *gives USA super dreadnoughts 23kt top speed, 40 sec reload on inferior 16in guns. WG: "Is balansed."
I would actually have been more excited if WOWs had more accurately modeled the Vermont after the Tillman IV-2. It would have a modest speed increase (25.2kts), retain roughly the same armor scheme, and have 15x457 guns in 5 triple turrets.
@@thunderpriest7418 15 guns is a little much. I would prefer the tier 10 been Tillman 1 with the 18 inch belt. Just make it a secondary focused ship. The 16 inch guns can still have the same super heavy shells as Montana, but slightly longer reload and shorter range after all the guns are older.
@@Starfleet8555 Its all bullshit anyways. Whats the point when 99.99% of the Time your shots Over pen. Even On Close Range Broadside shots. That is.. If the rounds don't MISS. Take one into a Training room and See just how pathetic it really is. Even AT close Range.
I stopped playing Kansas, and am not interested in the following-tiered designs. 23-knot (straight-line w/o maneuvering) top-speed, 40-second reload and a too-short ranged Secondary armament make for a hot 'paddling' against one's self - like a turtle crawling from malicious children (DD torps), pyros setting your shell on fire (CA HE), or simply getting caught in a gator's jaws (broadside to/from BB)... I do appreciate the free Oklahoma, though - fun at T5 - thank you.
Not really enjoying the new ships.... sorry guys. Every time I play them I feel like a XP piñata for the enemy team. They feel slow, weak, bad damage output, bad armor, slow reload. Not much fun at all.
That was what I've said in alot of feedback to them. I guess they didn't really listen to 90% of it. They just looked at the feedback and threw it out of the window.
Seriously guys, BB's in this game are almost not viable to play anymore. We are at a point where AA guns are not effective against aircraft. HE burns down BB at ridiculous rates. They have virtually no defense against DDs. CAs, DDs and CVs are not rewarded for spotting damage for BB long range artillery. Now we are going to add subs in the game. There is zero incentive for a BB to go in close to brawl. Nor is there incentive for others to help spot targets for BBs at long range. Anyone who's a BB fan is going to have an awful play experience at this point. We need a BB re-work. Quickly.
As a BB main I agree, but we're kinda repeating history here. In real life it was the rise of the CV that killed our favourite ship class, and whilst there are (many!) problems with WG... it's not as if they're ignoring the way it played out.
Great advancement on AA, no CV could touch me, only thing i worry about is the continued encouragement of passive play. Those close engagements are the most exciting part, pls don't damage that with the commander rework.
UNPOPULAR opinion incoming: There is one vessel these ships remind me of that LOVE sailing, my Arizona, I love her to bits and I really look forward to these since they are bigger meatier versions of her. I know that these things are gonna have their problems, but what tech line is perfect? None of course, but I love them and this game none the less, Happy hunting for whom ever read this!
While I do think that these ships could be good, one aspect of these ships that I feel could use a slight change to make them a little bit easier to play, would be to buff the Kansas’s penetration so that it falls within the characteristics of the new Colorado guns instead of the old Colorado guns, which is the penetration curve that Kansas follows, at the same time, I feel that the penetration curve of the Minnesota’s guns should be buffed so that at the very least it follows North Carolina’s penetration curve. Other than that Vermont looks like a ton of fun and I can’t wait to research and start playing her
It was great playing an asashio when these first came out.. or kitikaze, or akizuki, or Oster, or anything with any torpedoes whatsoever. Of course now nobody plays them... I wonder why? Could it be that it takes half the game to leave spawn? Or that German battleships are better in almost literally every sing aspect? Or could it just be everything about these ships? I guess we’ll never know, but at least spreadsheet says we’re having fun :) Side note: as much as I hate these BB’s being added, this game is still awesome :), can’t wait for Italian BB’s for now it’s time to go play some Battle Canoue
@@mark1188 457mm But yeah the Vermont is trash. She hits hard, but I mean if you wanted a hard hitting sniper why not get Yamato. Yamato is better in almost every way.
@@closetman7757 Vermont is *close* but isn't a match: Tillman IV-1 was 13 18" guns in 5 twin and one triple turrets Tillman IV-2 was 15 18" guns in 5 triple turrets Vermont is 12 18" guns in 4 triple turrets, so she's basically a Tillman IV-2 with the central turret removed.
@@blackopscw7913 you're actually blessed these floating confusion arent on blitz they wont so anything to change gameplay, i've tried them and they are all bad the only descent ship on the line is the vermont
I still trying to understand what super big brain move is this to like release a super bad battleship line that the ones that are actually grind the Vermont are never gonna look it at it again, no matter how you paint this ships WG they are bad
i feels Vermont will be a great ship, 18" inch and 12 of them, and 40 secs is enough. if you know how to play it, it become OP ships. i have some tips for playing Vermont (or Kansas and Minneasota): - at the start of battle dont rush, wait until enemy got spotted by DD or CVs, and then choose side that have low enemies number. - Never rush alone, or go to the front alone, or you will become hot BBQ - Always use AP. when enemy is angling you can aim for the superstructure (this method only works in < 17km for better result). - try to use all your main gun but keep your ships to angle, and after you shoot try to angle - Focus at enemy that have more Thread for you ships. - and for enemy CVs......... i have nothing to say, because you cant hide from CV, but still, use your DFAA and dodging attack so the main tips is "Dont Rush Alone or Go to Front too Far"
I'd love to see more lower tier and mid tier US Battleships someday as well, perhaps an entire alternate branch. Tier 4 Could be either the Delaware-class or Florida-class dreadnoughts Tier 5 Most Obvious is USS Nevada since her sister Oklahoma is at Tier 5 already Tier 6 is of course USS Pennsylvania since her sister Arizona is at tier 6 as well Tier 7 would be USS Tennessee with her sis California at the same tier Tier 8 to cap it off would be South Dakota -class to greet her Massachusetts and Alabama sisters
I would like to point out, there was a good reason Tillman's proposal was basically ignored it was utterly impractical. The Large Cruiser HMS Courageous would be a better insert.
There's literally no reason to play these. The guns are mediocre in their performance at best and everything else about the ships are inferior to literally every other BB in the game. Anything Kansas, Minnesota and Vermont can do, NC, Iowa/Georgia and Montana/Ohio can do better.
if the commander rework is going to affect german bb's secondaries by making the worse....I'll just stop playing for a while. Is Wg thinking that there aren't more videogames in the world? They surely do. but this is just my opinion...I guess.
They can't run away or reposition so if they happen to be out numbered on a flank you're fucked because they are as slow as dreadnoughts. Big slow floating turds. You can't run away because of speed. You can't out DPS because the penetration still won't do crap against angled BBs and the reload speed is the HIGHEST in the game. You can't hide and they can't miss because of the ships size. There is nothing these ships have that other top tier BBs dont have better.
Tillman is not as powerful as yamato. The reason. Tillmans were for the 1920s the 457mm guns had less accuracy and lesser fire controlk systems yamatos 18 inch guns were more powerful because they were new
I could deal with the slow speed but saying they are maneuverable is just a flat out lie. Maneuverability is traded for speed and you already have very little speed. You make one hard maneuver and you're a sitting duck. The only thing these ships are good at is burning, sinking and taking damage. So if you want to do your part and help other WoWS players pad their damage stats then this is the ship line for you.
One of The best parts of having an anime chick as my captain is pressing F2. Why are American BB's so slow? I mean, they did manage to win the war. For instance, Top Speed of the Oklahoma is listed at as 20.5 knots but in the game it's barely 19 knots. I realize that things are scaled for gameplay (and I agree) but you won't give the Oklahoma at least that much speed? C'mon Man!!
As a lot of people mentioned already it's nothing but a huge target for HE spammers. Just keep it spotted and they will sit in smoke screen or behind an island and keep firing HE all day long
No the Vermont in this video is a blueprint design, brought to life in the game. It’s based off of the “Maximum Battleship” designs by Senator Tillman, which included 70,000-80,000 ton plus dreadnoughts from 1916.
Hey WG! The Tillman designs at minimum could still go 25.2 knots. A 23 knot top speed seriously? We’re dealing with a Tillman I hull with the Tillman IV guns with a little less belt armor. So it’s a 70,000 ton vessel so it should go 26.5 knots. It’s still the slowest but only a little less than the Yamato. Please get your shit together.
The best way to play these three ships is not to play them at all. Save yourself a lot of heartache and frustration as they get HE spammed to death. Putting a lot of guns on a ship and attempting to "balance" this by giving it abysmal speed, ridiculously long reload, a below average heal and a huge superstructure that gets eaten up by fires amongst other failings just doesn't cut it. I have no idea what they were even thinking of in coming up with these three proverbial lemons. I am sure the original feedback from players testing these ships would have been pretty negative, yet WG still decided to release these ships in their present from.
Kansas and Minnesota need a super heavy sheels and Vermont and Monty has almost same armour (Vermont have 150mm extended belt and much more low citatel ). Why new player chose this ship they already boring after the 7 tier 20 knot ships
Dude, your Vermont has only 102.4 AA DPS, 6 burst, 5.8 km range, with a de facto 19mm mid section, plus a torp belt doesnt protect most part of the ship and worse than Alsace. You seriously think AA, armour and torp belt are the advantages?
WG you dropped the ball on this split. It's obvious you don't like American BB's, you nerfed my NC's AA when it was known for having great AA. If you had actually made the split from BB's that really existed and fun to play I'd be more inclined to research them. So far I'm not impressed.
No one mentioned that Tillman made these designs to prove that US Congressmen are stupid? Tillman made these designs have obscene performance to meet the demands of congressmen to see if they would actually pass his impossible designs.
So now that the Kansas is available for all then what happens too the Kansas version folks got from grinding. That ship has special abilities that make it worth while like swapping commanders with no penalty.
Mmm yes the infamous tillman 3 but with REDUCED speed, or tilman 1 with less armour and speed. Yep definitely not running his name it the mud because it would compete with Russian bbs because we all know Russia has the strongest IRL navy by such a huge gap...... nice "war sim"
