Rogal Dorn: The Difference Between Steel and Iron 

"No" - Rogal Dorn

We can't forget about the time he held off the the god of blood and war by talking about economics.

Rogal Dorn will be armed with the Emperor's lightning claw when he returns I assure you.

Dorn is the epitome of the "indomitable human spirit" meme

Your dad had cool metaphors, my dad said “pull my finger”

Dorn is definitely the kind of dude who 100% all his quests in game 😂

Peter turbo: breaks when his sister calls him out for being a btch Dorn: bends and adapts with his steel resolve.

“I am fortifying this position”-Rogal Dorn

Royal Dorn keeping and using his grandfathers cloak as a safety blanket is always just so damn heart warming. Like just a great fact to know about the guy.

I mean Dorn didn't really go missing Peter Turbo just challenged him to a game of dawn of war... they are still on their first match... 9000 years later

Kitten: Doooorn! What are you doing?! Dorn: I am fortifying this position. Kitten: WHY?!? Dorn:The best offence is a good defence. Kitten: Aw, for Terra's sake...

Really interesting analysis of Dorn being more flexible than I thought, and Perturabo is less than I thought! Really well stated!

"That is because the Black Templars are completley fucking insane" Dorn on his sons.

I actually like that. "Do not use steel when iron will suffice". I'm getting older, reaching that dreaded 4-0 in a couple years, and I can see the wisdom in that. You're right, on the surface it's "work smarter, not harder", "don't overcomplicate the solution". But I don't think it means that. You're right that Rogal had more steel in him than iron, he was flexible in his thinking and tactics where they called for it. But he had an iron core to him, to his beliefs. Iron may not bend, and it will appear brittle. But make it right, solid, and hold firm to yourself. And the world can wreck itself trying to break you. Edit: Or i'm just talking out my ass. Anyways, good stuff Maynard.

The moment I saw the title, my brain went “Iron breaks, steel bends” and I knew for a fact that the Dorn video would actually be about Perturabo.

I loved this dude. He defeated Khorne by reading the Geneva convention. He defeated a chao's God ideology

I recently finished Perturabo's primarch novel "The Hammer of Olympia" and knew this is where you were going with this video when I saw the title. Spoilers ahead: To my mind, the central metaphor of Perty's novel revolves around the "Iron within. Iron without" motto of the IVth Legion. Barabas Dantioch is defeated when the hrud rust away his iron without. For Perturabo, however, there is a sentence in Chapter Two which foreshadows his fate: "Poorly forged iron might shatter when hit by a precise blow." The rebellion of Olympia is the blow that shatters Perturabo's iron within. As someone who sees a lot of himself in Perturabo, I sometimes wonder if being a Dorn isn't preferable.

”I’d be hard pressed to find anyone who dislikes Dorn” Me: Hydra Dominatus…..

First minute in, and I see my oldest IF artwork slowly sliding before my eyes 😅 Old as it is, love that it still shows up here and there!

Alpharius not liking Dorn because he never lies is so freaking funny

Honestly if Dorn comes back I think they would have to really balance out the setting again. I mean the imperium has: Blueberry Boy to do the logistics/ planning Mr. Lion for the attack Lord ADornable for the defense

Stuff like this is why I love Dorn. He’s not a complex character, but his personality and philosophy are each unique and well written. It’s also why I think it’s dumb people just say “Perty is great Dorn sucks”. Both are good, and as this video states they exist as two sides of the same coin. The only difference is that Dorn understands the values in making mistakes and learning. Perturabo doomed himself constantly trying to avoid making mistakes altogether.

People always talking about how if Dorn returns he should have the Emperor’s Claw. I disagree, the claw is meant more for someone who is precise and quick. Dorn is a tool a weapon, he should have the Emperor’s Bolter.

Dorn and perty are so similar except for the one quality that perturabo was never able to cultivate: humility. Everything perty does is built around the idea that th previous thing being right and unquestioning. The idea of admiting he was wrong or possibly mistaken would break any sense of identity and self esteem that he built up. Meanwhile dorn is more then able to admit he was wrong, and learn as a person from it. Also, calling it now: Dorn will be coming back as a dreadnaught to counter perty being a giant tank daemon primarch.

I think an example of Perturabo's inability to bend when needing to is his isssues with communication. He was used to not expressing his needs and choosing to act at the whims of what was needed by those who were meant to support him (with the exception of his sister). He never complained about what he wanted to do in life and just got the job done, and that didn't change when the Emperor of Mankind found and recruited him. He was able to communicate what he wanted to do rather than just go about what his father commanded, but he didn't. Perturabo just did what he was used to and did whatever job he was given without any complaint, until, like Iron, he was eventually broken by this the burden he put on his back to carry.

I love Rogal Dorn and I would love to see him return to the setting and be given something more to do than protect Terra.

The Steel and Iron analogue reminds of the one Donal Noye says to John Snow in ASOIAF "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

WE HOLDIN THE PALACE WITH THIS ONE‼️ 🏰🍋🏰

It's difficult for me to articulate why Dorn became my favorite Primarch. This was before the SoT and the Khan and Sanguinius arrived with their Legions but there was this small window of time right after the Dropsite Massacre where RD and the 7th truly believed that they were the last men standing between the Imperium and Horus and I thought that there was something incredibly endearing about that. The last loyal men vs all the darkness of the galaxy. Very noblebright. The very reason space marines are so cool.

Really enjoyed the character evolution of Rogal in the Siege of Terra and the End and the Death series. So cool.

“ I am Rogal Dorn, defiant and unyielding”

He is my favorite primarch for those reasons and for his changing and ultimately sobering perspective as the Heresy goes on. When it kicks off, Dorn has to come to terms with the reality of his art that is the Imperial Palace. Ultimately it must be torn down to serve in a war for survival that he and his brothers ultimately brought upon countless human and xenos empires alike. Its also just him suffering through having to be the stoic face of defiance against Horus's onslaught and constantly trying to deal with the stress and mental fatigue of an entire Imperium looking to him in their most dire hour. And in what he believe to be his failure after Emps is thrown on the golden thrown, his mental break and where that leads him in the end just makes him one of the most fascinating primarchs to read about in my opinion. so yeah, fuck the iron warriors.

"far off planet in another galaxy" 40k only wishes it could get out of its galaxy

"I'm reinstalling the palace. Tell me when Corvus is here, i require his infiltration expertise"

A small quibble with your allegory. Pure iron is softer than steel and will bend but will stay deformed. Steel is far better at flexing and returning to its original shape. Cast iron is the really brittle stuff that will shatter. Your allegory still works, the problem comes from the terminology.

When people say Dorn is boring, ask them to consider this: Everyone else ended up wacky. Every other primarch serves some incredible and strange culture. Their feats and conquest informed their views. They came out freewheeling larger than life paragons of concepts extrapolated to their logical ends. Among all his brethren, among demigods that represent the hope and salvation of mankind itself, Dorn is an outlier more peculiar than any of his brothers. He's just a quiet, hard working man. He does work he is asked to do, and holds no envy of titles. He answers directly and honestly when asked, even if the answer might hurt somebody else (sorry perty). He takes his job seriously and recognizes that pain and duress can cloud strong decisionmaking. So he makes a device that causes him intense pain - not because he is a masochist, but because he knows he has to train the influence of pain away just as he would rage or envy. So it hurts, but does no lasting damage. Dorn is incredible because he is the demigod that reflects man better than any of his brothers - not notable for some uncanny trait or talent - instead notable for showing how far you can go, even amongst legendary peers, by committing to the basic trait available to almost all of us: willpower. That's not boring, that's the most metal superpower you can have.

If Dorn returns , i can see Perturabo rejoining the setting out of spite (Would be great if they confirmed the Perty-Dreadnaught theory)

to me the organization of roboute, the singular focus of lionel and his tactical acumen, with rogals unyielding nature and ability to reinforce and build would make the imperium have a new age of expansion as opposed to the slow death it’s having right now

Dorn is so honest it has essentially made him incorruptible.

Anyone who says they find Rogal "boring" is just a lazy grimderp fan who hates him for being well-written as a strong, unbending man with an indomitable will. Y'know, like the very concept he *embodies.*

Dorns coming back as a Black Templar. It's too good. It has to be what's happening

You're a beaut Arthur. The passion you pour into your videos tells us something important about you. You care. I hope things in your life get better. I hope you find something that allows you to grow that passion again and extend it back to the other things you already love. Take care bud

That's actually really interesting to hear about Dorn's 'Grandfather'. Almost does make you think the Emperor could have done the scattering himself, for His sons to gain such insights.

Tbh i really would like to see where the Story of 40K would have gone if Big E wasnt a Fucking Bad Father for All of His Sons... Imagine the Fists and the Iron Warriors working togehter...

if dorn comes back then moments later pertarabo will emerge from the eye of terror and just yell "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORN!"

I always enjoyed the difference in perspectives between Dawn and Perterabo on fortifications. Perty sees them as a challenge, a puzzle to solve and a final obstacle to break. Crush the fortress, win the war. Where Dawn sees fortifications as tools that give a temporary advantage while they last. He fully expects walls to fall eventually and plans for what happens next or what to do while they hold. Controlled anger vs stoic practicality.

late to the video, but the term “unyielding as stone” could be perceived in a way that compares him to being strong, yet malleable. Stone while very brittle, is also capable of being eroded and shaped by its environment, similarly to dorns long term acceptance of horaces betrayal.so even in that context, it still fits your message on dorn/perturabo as steel vs iron 13:14

"you reconciliated me with dorn, nice." an Iron warrior enjoyer. edit: the next one to come back is remored to be leman russ, has the box for the 11th edition is leaked to be Space wolves vs orks

bro that title and thumbnail go hard as fuck

So far it looks like Jagatai, mortarion redemption, leman Russ, and Dorn. My prediction for Dorn would be that he would acceptting the name of the Black Templars instead of renaming them because they are his true sons by never-ending their crusade

14:17 Stone erodes, it does yield to time, but it does not break, canyons are formed by erosion. So, using when Dorn found out about the Heresy, he did not believe it at first, but with increasing evidence, that worldview that Horus would never betray the Imperium changed and eroded, a canyon formed in his beliefs and he had to change with it. Not the best metaphor, but still falls into the iron vs steel metaphor in that steel is more flexible than iron that with just snap. That being said, I think both Dorn and Perterabo are my favorite Primarchs, so there is that too.

Hey Fist! Ask your dad about the Iron cage, Oh wait you cant! Because he's DEAD!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA PERTURABO GANG 4 LYFE

"Dorn is as yellow as his sons armor"~ Leman Russ

I have often heard the comparison that Dorn is stone and Perturabo is iron. In terms that iron can be corrupted, but stone cannot.

I’m going to be honest… I’m a massive Dorn fan and everything here actually put into perspective another reason why I love him…

13:03 simple. Direct. Inspiring. Perfect.

Something about Dorn that should also be mentioned is that, in keeping with the iron vs. steel thing, Dorn can actually be just as just as passionate and explosive as Perturabo but goes out of his way to restrain himself. For instance, he arguably takes the news of Horus’ sedition the WORST out of any of the Loyalist Primarchs. Not only does he nearly kill Garro with one stroke but he erupted into a frenzied grief, wrecking his quarters on the Phalanx. But he still tries to keep it private once he begins to listen to reason, he understands he acted out of order but still can’t contain his confusion, anger and sorrow. He just directs it where nobody gets hurt. Indeed his passion with his brothers I think often goes understated, dare I say Dorn might have been the only Primarch other than Fulgrim to genuinely make an effort to connect with Curze. In The Dark King, while the confrontation ends in violence, Dorn doesn’t just write Curze off as a crazy idiot: he genuinely tries to appeal to his better nature and only starts getting forceful when Konrad basically spits in his face and then friggin’ assaults Dorn in one of his psychotic episodes. It’s clear, however, that Rogal never wrote him off after that, as seen in the companion story The Lightning Tower. If anything he seems to take it extremely personally and it starts to ferment into this concealed anger. But unlike Perturabo, who just gave into the despair of his situation, Dorn is someone who TRIES to see the good in people despite that goodwill having been constantly besieged by both his brothers and humanity in general. That’s what I admire about Dorn, for as much as the Heresy impacted him, he never fully let go of that hope. He can be cold, abrupt, even rude at times, but never spiteful, never malicious.

NGL, I think the bit about the Iron Warriors being Iron and breaking not bending and the Imperial Fists being Steel and bending but not breaking is kinda bull. Dorn's legion was one of the only loyalist legions that began fracturing BEFORE the codex was even introduced. Purterabo wasn't chosen to defend terra, not because he was unyielding, but because he could see the eye of terror and was supposed to watch over the thing. Dorn also has a penchant for gold and all the colors that The Emperor likes.

I think also Rogal thought of himself as an artist, not in the Blood Angel music and sculpture way. Dorn was/is a builder his art was that of buildings and cities. I think his dream was to build a palace worthy of his father. This is why I think he should be the next loyalist primarch, Robutes art is logistics/politics, Lions art is the sword, when you have those pillars you have the foundations to build a new empire.

Fortifying this Position.

Rogal Dorn is one of my favorite Primarchs. He's in that toss-up jumbled mess I call a 'top 4' around Jaghatai, Corvus, Guilliman, and himself.

Great example of Unc Dorn and Peterturbo

This is the hardetst and most metal title Ive seen for a Rogal Dorn video (No pun intented)

steel is just iron with trace amounts of carbon, so they weight or density is literally exactly the same. steel is the superior material, there is almost no field in which iron is better than steel. i think the meaning of that phrase is more like "do not overkill" or "dont waste more resources than are necessary" in this specific case, rogal went from "kill literally them all, cause they will rebel" to "okay, they will not rebel, no need more killing", altho i see this as simplistic, since if they go to an imperium planet or terra, they will be integrated with other humans and they are less likely to rebel just because of their relationship with those humans, not because they are few

My favorite Primarch and the motivation for my first Tattoo

ROGAL DORN MA FUCKIN BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYY nah but i relate with dorn a lot his endless loyalty and absolute intolerance for bullshit from his brothers

If Road Gull comes back, then Peter Turbo comes back, and if Peter Turbo comes back, then the Imperium is totally fucked.

Loyalist best relatable boi - that's why i have an Imperial Fist army

Oh, boy! I get to hear about ROGAL DORN'S COLOSSAL CHAINBLADE. Also, Nightlords and their primarch still stinky and bad.

I think the metaphor is one of the sayings of Wayland Smith...

I'm both an Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors fan It's funny when they fight.

Perturabo is a nerd who doesn't care about being popular. Dorn is a teacher's pet. Thats the difference

I liked TTS Rogal but I personally find Dorn to be a emotionally rampaging manbaby. Hated him in Eisenstien and Nemesis, his appearances where just tantrums.

"No loose ends". Now that you think about it yeah, that's what makes Dorn superb than Perty.

Title goes hard asf

0:11 *YES!!!*

I wonder what context your dad learned the iron metaphor from since honestly iron can mean a lot of different things. Iron and steel have an interesting relationship which kinda comes from the fact that everything exists in relation to eachother. When making things there are different kinds of stresses which result in different kinds of resistances and failures. In general hardness aka how resistant something is to being penetrated and toughness aka how resistant something is to absorbing force without fracturing are inversely related. For example the thing with steel which is that where soft steel will bend hard steel will shatter. The harder something is the more likely it is to just fracture when pressure gets to strong on it. Yeah it will be more resistant but with something that is softer you can just straighten it out. When it comes to the relationship between perturabo and rogal I think this is mimiqued. Both had the same pressure applied to them that would burst their limits, rogal bent and adapted like you described but perturabo shattered completely. One was salvageable the other was beyond being saved

I am indecicive, I am trying to choose my chapter of marines as either the Imperial Fists or the Raven Guard, both Dorn and Corax are my favorite primarchs and while they are wildly diferent I feel thay have that adaptabuilty to them not everyone of the primarchs had. I like the tactics of the imperial fists more, Yellow is very striking and while I don't love the color and black is more of my thing Iit would contrast nicely with my xenomorph tyranids which are almost all black. On the otherside Corax and the raven guard are sneaky beacuse of circumstance they where decimated and always puching up, and whenever I read something about Kayvaan Shrike I genuinely makes me feel like hes a good dude and that I would like to follow him.

Rogal Dorn! The Wall!

It's also kinda glanced over cause her was in charge of one worst wars of attrition ever. But he flat out refuses to send Imperial Army units into the webway because he would be forced to execute them for finding out about the warp even if they won. The guys not a prick. He also trys to bond with Curze and get him to show mercy in one book but I kinda think that was more the author not understanding his character cause he says some emotional crap that I don't see him saying.

dorn goes to jupiter to get more stupider perturabo goes to college to gain more knowledge

My dad had said that same thing but also had another one that I think means the exact same thing. "Don't use a sledgehammer for a ball-peen job". Sure, they're both hammers, but you need to stop and think about which one the job calls for.

I want Dorn to return because I want Perturabo in the setting and if he comes back the king of seething will come back too.

steel is just iron with additional carbon in it to make it stiffer and stronger. they have the same density and its the softer iron that is more ductile

Never use steel when iron will suffice. i think that basically means, never use more resources than necessary to get the job done, i don't think it passes the idea of bending to not break I think it says be wise when to use whatever resources you have at hand, iron is easy to make even if it breaks while steel is more specialized and thus is more costly, though it depends on when that saying popped out, the prices can always switch with the up and down of the market.

I use to been neutral on dorn, but this video is cool, so now i switch from team iron Redditors to imperial fistings On a serious note, one weird comparison i want to make is jaghatti khan and dorn. Both i like to think are opposite in philosophy. One is stand your ground vs the other is haha bike go vroom however this video kinda shows how both goatmarchs are similar in how they would “bend” and change. Now my top 3 fav primarchs are 1) Khan 2) kurze 3) Dorn

Why not Jaghatai as next primarch ? Next chaos primarch to come into the game is almost confirmed to be Fulgrim, he and Jaghatai have a neat setup in terms of a theoretical duel that never came to be. Jaghatai is currently somewhere in the deep deeps of the webway, and guess what. Our rising star Vashtor is currently focused on exploring the webway for his own reasons

I loathed Dorn and the Imp Fists back in the day. Our introduction to expanded fluff was the Index Astartes articles. In them, Dorn FINDS the Phalanx, doesnt earn it, single handedly helps turn Curze and Perty traitor due to his inability to human, and aimply came across as an entitles jerkass. And that was fine. But fluff moves along. After the Flight of Eisenstein they work to humanize him. By Unremembered Empire or so he is, while not likeable, at least you know where he stands. However, I vehemently disagree with the Siege book era portrayal of Dorn. He is WAYYY too flexible to be the guy who thrashed mortally wounded Garro for bringing him bad news (perfectly in line with his actions with Curze in the Index astares) and that both Horus and Guilliman agreed was too inflexible to be a supreme warmaster level commander. Kinda like the Lion going from paranoid chaplain punchet who bombs Caliban into dust and then being all Noble Knight who forgives all those traitors he just was killing a minute ago by his sleeping beauty standards.

I believe Dorn will return next, alongside a traitor Primarch. Maybe Lorgar ends his meditation or something. And after that, the Khan is probably next to return. Just my theory lol.

Dorn for the next Hive Fleet

Borning huh. He fought against 9 Primarchs Some hell and demon infused to a stand still for 7 years. 7 years before the White Scar and the Blood Angles Came to his aid. I'm not sure if anyone besides the God Emperor himself could have done that !

This speaks a lot to the type of masculinity men need to understand in order to have a happy life

dorn coming back man i wana see how he'd do against the nids

Far off galaxy? There is only one galaxy in the whole of Warhammer.

Dorn isn't boring, none of the Primarchs are, except Horus, dude has a talent for lacking agency

Steel or Iron.... I choose steel

ILL FORTIFY YOUR WAFFLES BBY

If dorn comes back, does that mean perturabo also comes back

DORN LIVES

Steel snaps. Iron bends