Romantic stories are full of red flags. Why do we love them? 

@@katherinealvarez9216 I saw the video and found something you could still post back up: the third chapter being about how other characters aged as better role models

I LOVE being single as I find I've noticed I'm not really a relationship romantic type of person. I'm an individual who enjoys doing my own thing and at my own pace. I also enjoy being my own boss as well and I enjoy the flexibility and freedom that comes with being single. I HATE that the media and society views being single as a disease and that it is impossible to be happy without a romantic relationship with someone else. This is where my sadness and depression comes into play with society and media telling me I cannot be happy alone and that I NEED to find a romantic relationship with someone in order to be accepted into society

Pop culture detective made a really good video about this

Did you also grow up thinking you had super powers too?

@@Chris-rg6nm Nobody did, because superpower movies were clearly divided from reality, even to a child. But relationships, romance…are very familiar real-life things to many people.

In this era of modern society people seem to be having a hard time knowing what healthy and what unhealthy romantic love is because of red flags in media being disguised a harmless and sometimes even cute/romantic qualities, it's even scary to think how deeply this is rooted into society today it makes me sick to the stomach

Their relationship in The Notebook book was actually so sweet and healthy and not like that at all

"I don't want no wimpy guy!" I've had more than one fellow-romance writer snap at me. Because, yeah, if he respects you, listens to you, and doesn't abuse you, that's a BAD thing?! He's not going to be good/bad in bed depending on how much he abuses you first, FFS!

@@DS-uh6ss exactly!

These tropes are so common that it can define what "heartless" means. The awful truth is that true love is not as intense as infatuation. You are not supposed to be in that heightened emotional state 24/7 for the rest of your life, but to accept that means admitting that "marital bliss" is not really constant bliss. @D S Of course there's a focus on manly men. Feminists call society a patriarchy for a reason. So there's a tendency to fetishize and worship powerful men who have power over everyone they meet and exercise that power frequently. Part of the reason feminism exists is because those men are awful in real life, but if you grew up in a patriarchy you probably internalized the idea that powerful men are sexy.

or be called bitter for pointing out the m&f leads toxicity/ for the whole relationship to be toxic

Don’t forget traditional, cowards. I say at this point, it’s better be alone or not falling in love than be in a toxic relationship and screw up my mental health. At the end of the day, I can find love in many forms everywhere

I am so sorry that you had to go through all of that. I hope you're doing well right now. And that kind of guy right there is the prime example of an ultra douche.

women tend to ignore re d flags because of lust

@@zero1188 you're a walking red flag

I’m sorry about that :(. You didn’t deserve any of it. I hope you find a healthy, beautiful relationship one day 🙏🏽

@@celestinoclemente1954 you sound hurt. go heal

Relationships like Edward & Bella, Tessa & Harden, Christian & Anna & Laura & Massimo are very toxic, dangerous & unhealthy I mean they shouldn't be together. And what's worse these authors have these women get pregnant by these toxic guys.

yes! and Jake and Amy from Brooklyn 99! Peraltiago forever

@@catspawgardner3213 because having a baby with him always makes an abuser all better! /s

@@DS-uh6ss Yeah right🤮🤬🤨

Uhh Monica and Chandler each had things to work on

Romantic comedy essentials...🤦🏽‍♀️

Dennis Reynolds explains as much.

Well money means power, comfort, and an easier day to day life. "Attractive" is a catch all term for all the things that make a lot of people sexually aroused within 5 minutes of meeting the person. That by itself is really desirable but society has become pretty obsessed with these things and pushes the idea that people who are rich and attractive are just plain better than everyone else. Meanwhile most people have not had the importance of "red flags" drilled into their head the same way. Of course the video is about movies and TV, and Hollywood has its own reasons to love rich and attractive people.

@@MrQuantumInc You learn that these are familiar iconography in the Rom Com genre. Also the opposite of this is a familiar trope too: the hopelessly inept/ immature/ mismatched male love interest with a very classically good looking ( generally) woman.

Wow, thats right. I cant believe they didnt mention the power aspect of the red flagged male

When ironically that has so many opportunities to be toxic, but they're just not 💕

🎯💯

Interesting that the couple we perceive as odd ironically have the most deeply loving and romantic and healthy marriage.

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 it’s one of my favorite tv relationships

Wednesday however...she definitely murdered Pugsley at some point in their childhood.

After watching Julia Cudney´s video i wonder how much of this is actually on Beth Reekles, is said, for ex: that the guy who grabbed Elle´s ass and the guy who asked her out were diferent in the book, so who knows how much the movie changed. Besides, the director had the job to make the story more palpable, adding a proper framing, etc. If you want to talk about writers, Anna Todd´s After is a complete nightmare

I never liked him

I hope she flourishes into a great writer with more adult/mature sensibilities when it comes to writing romance 💒

@@lilil9752 Sounds about right, they still think the toxic tropes are more marketable ... Because they unfortunately have data

@@samf.s.7731 Do you think someday we will be able to solve this or we are condemned to be this way when it comes to romance?

He'd become a crime fighting vigilante and she'd become a depressed former princess.

Spot on

Bella was too self-centered to be an empathic person, unless you mean empath in the sense that Shane Dawson claims to be one.

@@ariaalexandria3324 Didn't she risk everything to stop Edward from killing himself? She also was willing to die in order to deliver Renesemee

If she even survives the encounter, honestly.

It's so true. And then you will be constantly accused of everything you do being "for attention from men" even when you're just trying to like I dunno... order a coffee or something and someone decided your existence is only for male attention.

And the notion that fighting = love.

The book is alot better and this scene in the movie doesn't happen in the book. Ally and Noah also don't fight in the book. They get along really well.

Haha. I know right. Everyone around me loved that except me.

I know right! I never watched that movie but that scene played whilst I was turning on the TV and getting ready to watch something else and I was so confused that THIS was the movie that people found so romantic?!

I've literally only seen the clip of them in the rain hugging and then that clip with the ferris wheel and like...I'm left wondering HOW DID THE HUGGING EVEN HAPPEN BC THAT FERRIS WHEEL THING WAS PSYCHOTIC 😭

it freaked me the hell out

I mean Anastasia IS from a book that started out as Twilight FanFiction.

They just see red as green 💀

Future murder victim Anastasia Steele. And if we're being honest Rosamund Pike definitely murdered Ben Affleck immediately after the credits of Gone Girl.

no they just enjoy the money and luxury more :)

Not color-blind, just blind.

It's not a problem when men try to change women for better, the problem is when they try to change us for worst.

It's so weird! I'm bi but I basically only read sapphic romances now. Not because I'm significantly more into women irl, but because there are a decent number of popular w/w writers who don't celebrate toxic relationships--and unfortunately I can't say much the same for popular het writers. I have found better explorations of relationships in contemporary literary fiction (Louise Erditch, Zadie Smith, Helen Oyeymi) but those aren't exactly romances.

Good there are people like you! I'd love to read those. I myself try to write fanfiction that leaves out those red flags. It's hard because even in that scene, people tend to glamorize it. You can really tell who of those writers is still stuck with this kind of ideas as the only romance. It's just not.

This is why I’m self publishing lol. My MMC is an anxious mess of a softboi and stops mid thrust when the FMC displays discomfort. Because, shocker, consent can be removed AT ANY TIME and there’s no such thing as “a point of no return.” I hate when male characters say “stop me now or I won’t be able to!” Fuck you. Yes you can. If your mom walked in on you at ANY point during sex you’d be able to stop.

@@michanone a lot of writers who are kept out of traditional routes via this kind of gatekeeping are seeing real success with online publishing/small, indie and/or POD presses. If you want to find an audience, I hope you have all the options open to you!

Maybe it is bad because I read that and went “If she wants to depict a healthy sexual relationship, why is she writing explicitly in that genre and not a general fiction romance where readers might not have the same expectations”

I have never watched Euphoria, but Rue and Jules will definitely get me to watch it. The more footage I see of them online the more curious I get. I dropped it after the first episode because ... There was waaaaaaay too much teen sex in there for me to feel comfortable watching 😑😑😑

@@samf.s.7731 Yeah...Euphoria is a mess. I like some of it, but it's a fucking mess.

It's done right but believe it or not many viewers still missed the point and intrepeted those relationship as sorely romantic

I agree with that statement. There nothing glamorized in that show. Disgusting behaviour is accurately disgusting looking.

totaly agree, there are so many ways to get the wanted conflict for a romance through realistic and non toxic ways and showing how to overcome misunderstandings, maybe realise you are bad for eachother and show genuine interest in changing that, figuring out you just do not work with eachother without demonising the other . . . so much more interesting

Shrek

Agree 100%

Parks and Rec, The Good Place, Brooklyn 99

Considering how young most fans of these movies are, it’s probably not so much about being single. Probably does have something to do with attachment trauma though.

I absolutely agree. Not that I believe that writing these stories is good, right or even healthy. But I agree with your point that women create or consume these toxic stories as wish fulfillment because of what's lacking in their own life. Moreover, the writers occasionally demonise women in these same texts whom they feel intimidated, challenged or resent for having certain coveted qualities (attractiveness, prestige, a strong personality) by inevitably making them the unwanted rivals for the male love interests devotion or just making them jealous of the awkward female self-insert. It's a fascinating pattern.

I think Joe Goldberg is a bad example because that shoe is very very obviously framing itself as a guilty pleasure where the viewer follows the character who would be the villain in any other narrative. But something like say … The Notebook is supposed to be a completely wholesome romance but the male lead was still doing some kind of manipulative stuff to push past nos

Good that in real life is not like that, marriages are difficult for itself, imagine with all these drama depicted in movies.

YES THIS ALL OF THIS. Like, a lot of fiction is often heightened versions of what we want irl. I tend to go for possessive lovers in fiction bc I have never really felt wanted in a real relationship. Not beyond the initial honeymoon phase of the relationship anyway. So the fiction is a concentrated dose of what I want and can't yet have and serves as a substitute until I can get the more moderate and healthy version irl.

Precisely, it's worse if the movie is targeted at teenage girls, like "The Kissing Booth", and impressionable viewers will grow up thinking that this behaviour is normal.

@Abridged Brasil I liked the main couple in heartstopper tho.

@Abridged Brasil I'm glad to share. Tell me if you liked it too when you see it.

@Abridged Brasil you is about a serial killer it’s not meant to be impressionable it’s meant to be a cautionary tale like watch out for people like that

@@cepahreinholt8710 It's the sweetest netflix couple! No red flags at all in them!!

Honestly I don’t think Nick is a bad person for not telling Rachel about it. He’s very clearly uncomfortable with his status and his family, which is why he came to New York to get away from it all.

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 I haven't watched the movie. Did he really hide it for a few years? Or did i understand that wrong. That would be weird and problematic.

@@lexxihd5843 Well they'd only been dating for a year. Also I recommend. It's a really good film.

While I do agree with you over these points, I also feel like he should've at least given her a heads up regarding his family, so that she knew what she was getting into. Would've at least eased things up for her a bit.

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 I'll write it down.

That happened in Friends when Chandler got a creepy flat mate after Joey moved out after a big argument between them. Then Chandler realised he missed Joey and vice versa and asked him to move back in.

Yep well said

This is very true. The problem becomes though, when it's framed as something aspirational, rather than framed as being part of a human experience.

You can make perfectly good stories with external conflict ( troubles happening naturaly in life but not because someone is an asshole) like how to deal with sterelity or difenrent aspiration in life. Sometimes lgbt romances in media are less toxic because the protagonist have a lot of other problems to deal with just to be in a relationship.

I read that so often that you need conflict for a story, while I think this misses the mark. Sure, you need some sort of problem, but what makes the story interesting is how the problem is solved, not necessarily what the problem is. That‘s, in my opinion, the hurdle especially rom-coms stumble over. They have these highly quirky set-ups but then rely on established narrative patterns to solve them, which generally doesn‘t work too well - at least not for me.

I think there are really good movies that put a spin on that, like The Runaway Bride

Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking if one day we will really be able to "tame" this childish and bad behavior and to learn what is best.

same!!!

Bridget Jones is just an update of Pride and prejudice.

@@stephennootens916 Except that P&P has healthier depiction of a relationship

@@notyourtherapist21 Thank you. I felt like I was being mansplained or something. Like no one seems to understand or notice the toxicity.

@@stephennootens916 I love how Colin Firth plays more or less the same character in that but in a different role with a different name and different costume. It's like watching Carry On films with the main cast playing the same characters in different disguises with different names in every film. Sid James was always the lecher, Hattie Jacques was always the battleaxe and Barbara Windsor the flirty and giggly blonde.

Also he was in a relationship

When I teach P&P, we examine how Darcy is not a viable interest for Lizzie until he stops being an asshole Alpha male. As soon as he becomes someone who empathizes with others instead of just being a rich dickhead, THEN he becomes the desirable romantic hero that she falls for. There's a similar parallel with Han and Leia in Star Wars. The women don't SAVE the men or change them... the men change, and THEN the women see them as romantic possibilities.

Also, both Elizabeth and Darcy grow during the story and Harry and Sally have good communication.

@@DS-uh6ss tbh i never liked pride and prejudice but i never had anything against the couple I thought they were good

@@DS-uh6ss I actually love this explanation of why some romances between ex ''bad-boys'' and more stable women actually work, while some fail. Thanks. :)

@@AlirioAguero2 the problem is almost always when the woman is expected to fix him, as opposed to him just growing the eff up. Just ask my mom. ;)

This. "If it was me, it'd be totally different. I'd be understanding and not pushy. Others are too demanding." Later, they discover that they can't change anyone and proper, in their opinion, behaviour won't have any influence on a toxic person.

It trains us to see romantic relationships as us becoming their mommy-bangmaid-savior by playing on the insecurities we're hammered with in a patriarchal society. And it hurts everyone.

0000u0

I think people who believe in the two aspects you said especially those who were highly influenced by such fiction have tried it. It just won't have a happy ending...

It's the female version of ''romancing the virgin'' trope. Men in fiction often fantasize about a girl who has refused every single guy in the book, before he came around, because he's just that special (LMFAO). That's how women see being ''the one'' who will finally tame the ultimate bad-boy. In the end, it's self-pandering, and ''not like the other girls / guys'' at it's most laughable.

They do end up together too a few season down..

I'm a Violet and in context of the show's entirety .... okay, makes sense but condensed and focused absolutely toxic and dangerous.

This is meant to be ironic right?

@@happygucci5094 no it makes sense

Too bad Edwards was SO protective and SO controlling that his girlfriend wouldn't actually be able to have the freedom to go wherever she wanted.

Maddy isn't the problem, but they didn't say that did they? Maddy and Nates relationship is also portrait as really shitty, so it doesn't really apply to this video.

@@lexxihd5843 ya I didn’t say they said that

@@stoplisteningtothestatic7078 I guess you didn't. :)

Perfect explanation! Personally though, I think Jules still cheats because she loves getting attention from any possible source, so even when Rue has stopped using drugs, she cannot stop herself

They make it look a lot more fun than it really is, too. When it really gets boring af when you're doing it right. Lol. At least, it seems boring compared to TV & movies. I tell my kids that love is work. To love someone, you have to be willing to do that work for that relationship.

@@mmmuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiirrrrr i don't know, i guess if you have mouthpiece, intelligence, good looks and big pp you'll have a much different experience 😉

@Anjali if your in an on and off agin relationship like so many t.v. shows you should break up and find someone else

This is so true!

Watching Rebecca fall for Peter Quint was horrifying to me, it was a compelling story but it was a terrifying tragedy rather than a guilty pleasure... I think there's a difference to be made between the story being interesting and the relationship being desirable : a toxic relationship IS a compelling and powerful story to tell, but I think the video essay here is trying to make the point that telling these stories in a way that makes the audience accept it and even root for it promotes red flags as tolerable or even romantic behaviours, which can definitely have a negative influence on culture.

But why does this narrative exist in the first place - presented as a real possibility not just fictional escapism

As much as I hated peter and jessica, I loved dani and jamie, because damn, life's sad

With twilight tho people knew right away and that’s why the series got massive hate and ridicule in its hay day

He didn't say it until she saw the house and met them immediately after. It shows that the guy will only tell you of things after they're done. It's the "Better ask for forgiveness than permission" mentality

I agree that among all things featured, I found this one to be the biggest ''nitpick'', but I guess it's the fact that he told her about an hour before meeting them, and not days / weeks before, when he knew where they were headed. I actually don't mind a doze of secrecy in a fresh relationship or the one of a casual nature. It becomes different when secrets are big, and you are in a long-term relationships. Even then, there are *some* reasons I can see work well (protecting your partner from your job secrets or toxic relatives, oath that would involve more people, ect.). That is the ONLY one worth debating IMHO. Other red flags are pretty big, especially overt possessivness, not taking no for an answer, and *especially* any kind of student-teacher or teen-adult relationships.

I guess that not mentioning it at the begining is the way for a rich person to find someone that does not love them for the money, but for their character. or at least that's probably the mentality behind it. But not mentioning it a few months later when you plan on visiting your family with her and proposing to her? That certainly does feel odd I'd say. Especially not preparing your SO for the ensuing conflicts that might arise is not the best way to go ...

Jesus you need hobbies good lord

@@Halo4beatsB02 everyone needs hobbie, but what's your point exactly? That poverty, studying med school which is extremely difficult, having a shitty part time job and other hardships many people can have can be solved by "just having hobbies"? That's one of the most fucking dumb tone deaf shit I've seen someone writing in a long time. Congrats.

Very good take. Those mechanisms are subconscious and it take time to understand our motivations. I had similar problem. It was exciting, gave me an adrenaline rush and a sense of victory (against all odds) when an issue was resolved and we had gotten together. It's a matter of personal growth, maturity and honesty with ourselves. It's not as easy as it seems, to take accountability for our relationship problems and break the cycle. This comment reminded me how much have I developed since early adulthood/late teens. Good for us.

@Nonya Bus the word subconscious is really a word most of you cannot seem to understand as I can see. It's not that people seek out toxic relationships. If you ever try to search for any fucking studies you'd find that victims of abuse don't seek abuse, abusers seek for easy targets.there are many studies that's have proven that this is way more likely the case than the opposite victim blaming theory that used to exist in mainstream clinical psychology. I never mentioned that people are trying to find toxicity, I mentioned that they might accept it and not try to find something better because of many other problems they have going on that might get them numb. My shitty relationship lasted 3 months before I broke up and I'm in a great long lasting relationship since then. However some people could be in such relationships for years because they cannot leave due to many other problems making them numb to toxicity and making them feel weak, as if they cannot control the broader prospects of their life so they try to manage the easier parts. Plus it's an extremely privileged take to say "just manage your life problems", it's as shitty as " just don't be anxious/depressed ", "just don't be poor" and many other fucktarded tone deaf advice privileged people give when someone mentions their struggles. Thankfully in my med school we are taught to see things from a broader perspective without assuming everyone is privileged. You know, to be non deontologically horrible doctors, and kon shitty human beings.

@@AamuAurora yeah, subconscious,you are spot on, glad someone with a brain here can understand this. I agree, I also did this and I hope wed talk more about what causes such a self destructive acceptance of toxicity towards us rather than seeing g the surface of things saying "just move on" or "the media is the cause of that"

Shonda is the creator of the series Bridgeston too which is based off of the books. Gotta say, I love the new stuff they add more so than the source material!

@@samf.s.7731 Technically, the series was created by Chris van Deusen, but it's produced by Shonda Rimes' production company

I also would like to know. Is it merely a cultural issue? Can one day we solve it?

@@raphaelzakhm7310 internalized misogyny. Between women feeling powerless economically and personally, and all of the ways we've been trained since birth to accept abuse as love, it makes sense that the ideal fantasy is a man who, sure, abuses you and cheats on you -- "What man doesn't, after all?" -- BUT HE ALSO PAYS OFF ALL OF YOUR STUDENT LOANS AND BUYS YOU A COMPANY SO YOU HAVE A CAREER? Score!

While it might be the whole reason mean of things that are Tropes of the genre have been around since Austin and Bronte sisters.

I agree. I hate Wuthering Heights!

Richard was super dismissive of Emily though, to the point where it led to the season long separation. They did have a deep and happy love for each other overall. Rory and Dean is a perfect example of this trope (and their 2.0 makes me cringe every time).

Here comes my defense for Luke, pretty much the best character on Gilmore Girls. I feel like they did do him dirty in the last few seasons. But overall, he was an amazing guy. Him and Loralai knew each other for a long, long time. They had a foundation built from friendship. They knew each other to the core, from their bad habits to what made them good people. Luke respected Rory and treated her like a princess. He did Loralai thousands of favor, treated Emily and Richard with respect and kindness, and tried everything in his power to not be a bad person. He took Jess in, which shows he had a good heart, and tried to set him in the right path. He dated Loralai knowing she had commitment issues (Which would be a red flag for him, considering Luke was likely looking for settling down), and accepted her inside and out. About his daughter, yeah that’s when things start going bad. I do consider that hiding April was his biggest mistake, and still, with therapy, I think they couldn’t made it work. His secrecy Isn’t romanticized, and Loralai calls him out for it. April ends up being a key reason as to why they break up. In the end, they get back together not because what he did was right, but because they can get past it together.

Dean cheated on his wife Lindsey with Rory but he painted Lindsey out to be bad and told Rory the marriage was over

@@oooh19 yep. And there was never really any solid discussion about holding him accountable for that either. Just more “Rory was a homewrecker” and aggressive female confrontations in the town square by Lindsey and her mom, because apparently Rory was the only one to blame in the situation.

@@milktoasted yea women are always blamed. Rory could have stated, "he said the marriage was over!" to Lindsay and her mom. but i guess she was too freaked out!

Came to find this comment specially since Alison cheated on Derek with his best friend. If I remember correctly

@@Lissemt And she got pregnant by him.

There were many stories where I loved secondary characters more.

That's how I felt about Hardin in after , it's kinda like he could get away with his bs because he is good looking.

See Jacob was a healthy partner… Until he said he wouldn’t give up when Bella rejected him the first time and before he became a were wolf.

It's probably because of the deeply rooted ''not like the other girls'' trope. He was a mysoginistic aggressive a-hat who treated everyone like dirt before SHE came around. She wasn't like the other girls. She was so pure, angelic, and perfect that she managed to do the impossible... tame the beast. 😅 The male version of that trope is ''seducing the virgin''. A woman was always alone because of her mistrust of all men, vow of virginity (in older works), or any kind of committment. But then... HE came around. So manly, so perfect, that she ultimately said ''f-it'' and gave herself to him and him only. 😅 Both tropes are ultimately ego-boost for instert-yourself type of protagonist, and both are most often hilariously unrealistic.

It's not his fault!! He is a victim of the system!!

👌

That's really sad, I definitely find love more intense than infatuation. Are those people really in love? Or maybe they don't have a good match in a partner? A lot of successful long term relationships have both sides of the couple still feeling intensely about the other, enjoying time together & continually thinking themselves lucky to be with the other person. Maybe some of it is how people view different crushes/romantic interests? Like a crush or obsession can be more like an addiction than an actual relationship, similar to what the victims in domestic violence feel like.

I also wanted to add that it's normal to overlook red flags when starting to fall in love. Which is why it's so important to have trust-worthy friends to ask for their opinions, and PLEASE believe them! Everyone tends to ignore the hurtful behaviors or overlook them because the feeling of love and sacrifice seems bigger; as this video suggests what's more important is to see the other person as they actually are, and not the idealized version that we forgive everything. Sometimes it takes time though

I'm the same way.

Omg, right? I absolutely lovethat movie so much.

That’s why I started resenting romance and am not looking for irl. These kinds of movies ruined romance for me.

Same. The backlash I've gotten in the industry for trying to write Romance couples who... you know, like and love each other, is really something.

@@DS-uh6ss I'm really sorry. Can you tell more about that experience?

Yessss this deserves way more likes. Sounds exactly like the way my ex was 😭

No me too i watch these couples purely as entertainment i NEVER want a relationship like that. I’m 15 and i know that these romances are toxic, mostly because i grew up reading couples who were actually healthy like Percy Jackson and Annabeth Chase from Percy and the Olympians.

@@naveerarizwan5329 I love Percy and Annabeth!

@@Angi3_6 YESS ANOTHER PERCABETH FAN

@@naveerarizwan5329 Are you excited for the new series that’s coming up? I really hope they cast Greek actors! This would be an AMAZING opportunity for representation! ❤️

@@Angi3_6 the casting came out like a week ago and yes I am