The “Victim” Onscreen and How She’s Been Misrepresented 

Could you create a video about rape culture in HIMYM series ? I started to write about it, but I'm not familiar enough with this subject yet , and I thought you could create some great content on this.

While I understand that, surely you agree that a more nuanced view of victims is needed in media. If it’s only every the voiceless perpetual victim or the unrealistic power fantasy revenge story it really still does not paint victims as real people (and revenge stories are so unrealistic that it’s the other narrative that is more internalized by people imo).

@@kstar1489 You can do both. There definitely needs more nuanced representation of victims such as Marie in Unbelievable. However, as a victim, I actively enjoy watching films like Kill Bill because it takes away the realism from coping after trauma. When it's too realistic, it can be triggering and depressing - especially for those who have experienced abuse and have not had justice for whatever reason.

@@fay4769 I understand that, but I’d imagine other victims would like relating to more nuanced portrayals. But I can understand the enjoyment of a revenge power fantasy, because it can make you feel powerful. But I think there are other portrayals of power that are not so fantastical, if that makes sense. But I understand. Have a good day

I understand what you mean but Stories like Kill Bill where a person is raped/sexually assaulted and it’s never again mentioned bother me because they trivialise the trauma of sexual violence.

That and The Bride didn’t become an assassin just after her trauma. She was one before finding out she was pregnant. That and I appreciate that she was allowed to be a mother to BB after finding out she was alive

So refreshing to hear something that actually rings true, rather than aspirational. The focus on becoming stronger from trauma implicitly creates a sense of shame from living with the effects of trauma

Everything that's happened to me has made me stronger, that's how you learn, by making mistakes and avoiding them for the next time

@@deborak9075 v people who suffer from trauma aren’t the ones making mistakes. They’re suffering from the mistakes of OTHERS. Your logic doesn’t apply here.

Ugh. Really hope that you're in a better place now tho.

had a similar happening with about my ex, who did a smiring campain for years, so that I became physically sick ... when I went to a place for helping women of abuse, they reacted the same first ... it is, like the law does not support any action, when there is no visual harm ... I hope, You can have peace

I sometimes get confused with psychological abuse and verbal abuse because I feel they look the same.

emotional, mental psychological abuse to me is more destructive than physical. wounds bruises injuries heal in the body. Mindfu%ks last a lifetime

i have spent a whole lifetime wishing and waiting to be hit or sexually touched. i don't even want anything to change, but i dream of him being reported like people would dream of winning the lottery or getting a free mansion. like you don't think about all the complexities, where would your friends and family and job and identity go. but it's easy to escape reality in. the truth is i just want to feel valid and for some reason i feel like i need the world's stamp of approval to say yes i suffered. i still am working through whether i believe it or if i'm just having a hard life and looking for somewhere to place the blame.

I'm sorry that you had that experience, not just the assault, but the reaction, and not being taken seriously. I'm glad someone reported it, because maybe it prevented it happening in the future. Maybe. I hope going forward, you are believed, no matter how people perceive your personality.

@@DorotaGabal thank you! I really appreciate it. As open as I’ve been about it… it was hard to confront exactly how I felt until I went to therapy. I appreciate your kind words ❤️

UBG, you are the MVP. I have heard and read many reports on sexual assault within the military. I believe you. I used to believe in our military and most of American Police, but now...I just can't. Their empty words and lack of honorable actions are very disturbing to me and many others. (Even as a white girl. Mostly as a female in general.) Not all enforcement/enforcers are good people...and even a portion of bad apples---no matter how small---can make the entire batch look tarnished and rotten. I hope you get justice, but our system is imperfect. Arrogant fools, scumbags and miscreants deserve harsh sentences/punishments.

If I was a woman I would stay far away from the military.

I wish you all the best in the world!

@@Chris-rg6nm shut up.

Yes, it makes the survivor feel further shame. The freeze response was there to protect them and they shouldn’t feel as if they responded wrong. It’s the way the system reacts when the brain is trying to process the disbelief of what’s occurring. I have felt shame when males in my life say when we are watching tv how great it is that the victim fought back vs doing nothing. I froze each time and it brings me shame. I’m working on the shame, because we did nothing wrong. The predator did.

@@Chris-rg6nm We're not looking for problems, we're paying attention (as everyone should be) to horrendous problems that are already there. They won't be solved unless we start by paying attention.

Firstly: I deep sorry for you.

I'm sorry about your experience.

Jesus Christ. I am sorry this happened to you. And you are right - black women are not given the same protections. But listen to me. You. Are. Not. Damaged. Goods. Please always know that.

I am so sorry this happened to you. As a black woman I am wish we could be SEEN ...

That's absolutely awful, you're not 'damaged goods', you have worth beyond your sexual history. Fyi though, its not just black girls. Its women in general (minorities def have it worse). Rape is a crime you're almost guaranteed to get away with, only 6% of rapes ever result in an arrest and only 1% in felony convictions. Screw these men that commit such crimes and damn to hell those who defend this sexist world. Things are changing, slowly, but for the better. Only 100 years ago, we couldn't even vote. Now we're getting affirmative consent laws.

agreed. i've seen so many posts making fun of hannah for being overdramatic and insufferable. hannah witnessed an assault and was assaulted. she killed herself because of that. she's not being a dramatic teen, she is a victim of abuse.

They do the same with every female character that Is not perfect. Instanly demonize her, builly her and discredit all the good points and merit she has.

She doesn't deserve it but her character is someone who seems to like to blame people and not get help

@@mewesquirrel6720 exactly this is what I hate about her character. It never seemed like she actually tried to get help.

@@mewesquirrel6720 about the get help, have you been in a situation of assault or r*pe? If yes, you are very brave. The majority of people living through this didn’t get help because the don’t get taken seriously or the culprit is preferred and receives protection.

🙏🙏🙏🙏

Lol this is so true

I agree. Only the best writers can do that 😉

Right!!

I would suggest watching their take on "Likeable" women. Plenty of male characters have been unlikeable, or downright evil and get a pass. Completely different for women.

@Unboxing Alyss I saw that, I don't disagree with their take, but plenty of male characters are complained about too, in terms of not being likable. A term i find to be kinda subjective in the first place.

All of this 💜

It's not really normal to bring up trauma in a casual conversation. It would be uncomfortable for someone to bring up the time they saw their friend drown in a pool, too. That's just the way it is.

Ikr, i feel so sorry for you, and i hope things get better for victims especially w the mainstreaming of movements encouraging people to come out and speak against their abusers. Im so sorry for you, ur feelings are valid, and you deserve to be heard.

Precisely, Monica got the most blame for the affair, despite Clinton also being involved, and the real Monica is an executive producer on the show, so that we get a more authentic portrayal from her perspective, without making her a completely innocent victim.

@@smartass0124 dude what

Clinton was impeached I’d say he got his fair share of the blame

Eh, both parties are to be blamed.

@Dreamy Sheep I'm talking about in general, not the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal.

Exactly!!! 💯 general audiences like simplified cool characters. That's why Jon Snow was so popular compared to the other more complex characters.

Are you talking about male audience? They have trouble empatizing with female characters.

@@tanchella nah everyone

Also, most movies always get rid of her fun and lively side we saw in the tales too

*tapes

I loved the scene where goes to the screens of her movie "The Wrecking Crew", interacts with the young lady at the ticket booth and theater manager, and most of all seeing the movie audiences reactions.

"she wasn't always synonymous with tragedy" The entire movie watching her I felt like I was watching a Shakespearian tragedy, Rick Dalton was going through the movie suffering greatly while all her scenes showed her having so much fun and living the high of Hollywood success so I just assumed at the end they would cross, she meets a nightmare end while Rick ends up on the high of Hollywood success. That was before remembering Tarantino revises history in period pieces. I just felt dread the entire time watching her scenes knowing what was going to happen to her (or what I thought was going to happen based on the actual events).

I guess this beats the hell out of the story that might have been, had she live.... S. Tate, one hot piece of ass that had minimal acting talent, and who fell off the radar after her twenties ended. I.E. the fate of most actresses who aren't masters of their craft

@@MechaJutaro ok redpill

@@IRHasDiabetes911 "Red Pill", only in the sense that these are statical realities. Not just actresses, but actors also. For every DiCaprio, Pitt, or even Woody Harrelson who transitioned from sitcoms to lucrative film careers, there's million more Ian Zierings, Jason Gedericks, and Jaleel Whites

I get your point, but ultimately the effect of having few rape-revengers stories *combined* with even-less-still amounts of realistic survivor-positive non-revengers narratives is negative. . The hidden-victims-crouching-bad*ss (to borrow and misuse that title) concept is extremely damaging to people who experience freeze or failed-flight, or whose bodily response to the adrenaline-rush of terror + physical stimulation (especially if they're date-rape drugged or 'gentle-raped' aka restrained or threatened but forced to participate and climax) is orgasm. . Besides, the revengers stories are never as satisfying when they strip the female of everything she ever was in order to basically turn her into a man-with-boobs (which is to say, they get rid of all of her 'inconvenient' feminine traits and turn her into the emotionless potty-mouthed killer *who's always so smugly right about everything* which they still hold to be the ideal traits and behaviour of successful straight manly-men).

I feel like Twin Peaks IS a deconstruction of the “she was so beautiful” victim narrative. Yes, she is beautiful and a victim but that’s not all she is!

Precisely, she's even stronger than Cooper. She was selected to become Bob but he couldn't tempt her into being evil, she chose death (i.e. to be murdered) rather than becoming something she despised. She's empowered, wilful, insightful, intelligent and wise. She's complex and doesn't act like an 'angel', but she's unequivocally herself.

@@jaustengirl441 Yes! as it Is a deconstruction of murder mysteries AND soaps!

@@skullsaintdead AND there Is no other way. When cooper tries to turn back time AND avoid her death, it does not work. She cannot be saved by a knight in shiny Armour (or FBI suit) there are More important things at Stake. Also, you cannot change the past.

@@augustosolari7721 Omg yes, I totally forgot about that! I remember watching it about 5 years ago when I was in this depression, thinking 'holy fuck, she's someone worthy of my respect and admiration'. I've remembered that scene where she chooses death over being controlled ever since, she endures rape, molestations, torture, manipulation and yet, she still fights, she remains true to herself! The empowerment in that. Incredible.

I never even thought of it that way... that's a great alternative.

IDK... that kinda makes it sound like a game or a goal.

@Erwin Lii i wouldnt even say it's just the white mainstream media. my family is from mexico so i keep up w what's happening there. the r*pe and femicide of mexican women even by their own media is awful. many victims are purposefully portrayed as promiscuous, prostitutes, or troubled runaways, even though most are just working class women who try to earn money for their families in factories and "clean jobs." it's all just a distraction, for many people who hate women, there is no such thing as a "good" or "perfect" victim. if she is, they will lie and misrepresent her to dismiss the issue

@@keepingitkianatural it is, my dear. It is. At least for them it is.

Good point

The channel "Pop Culture Detective" made a really intense video about how sexual abuse of men is used for cheap laughs.

Being a victim, by definition, means being harmed as a result of a crime. A victim is not a label that defines you, it’s just language. If something awful happened to you, and you are victim, you are still a million other things. You still have strength, weakness, courage, kindness. I think trying to deny the word victim only doubles down on the shame that people are made to feel for having being the target of a crime.

That’s not fair that you were pressured to not use a word that you felt depicted your experience. I hope you’re able to find someone to help you through recovery. I’ve finally found a therapist who is helping me through every part of me that felt something in these situations. We’re using internal family systems therapy by Richard Schwartz . I just started ketamine assisted therapy. It’s such a hard road to recovery and there’s so much shame associated with all the feelings. May we all come to realize how we can get help and no longer feel shame for something that we didn’t ask for. The predators are the ones who should be ashamed. And other survivors/victims should not be shaming us for expressing ourselves!

You don't have to use either label

@@thepinkestpigglet7529 Yes.

@@Saavycupcake Yes! The ones hurt should always have the narrative, so they can heal. It's hard because sometimes those words, victim/survivor work for people. Sometimes they don't. Healing is rarely a straight line, in my experience. It's usually a cycle, & takes time, because it's like peeling off layers from a onion, and each layer is a new revelation, or a deeper understanding or acceptance of what happened & how you responded & who are you now. Sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it makes you cry. Or it makes you feel better. Or at least that's my experience / based on a lot of stuff I've read. I don't think victim or survivor fully grasps the whole of the experience? Maybe there are better words / phrases in other languages? Maybe the word or phrase hasn't been created yet? Languages are living & ever changing after all. I'm still trying to find the answer. Here's all the encouragement for healing, however long that takes for you, and whatever shape it makes. Yes, the predators should be ashamed. But they should also change. And society, everywhere, needs to change, until "rape" & "sexual assault" become near forgotten, unused words, because they almost never happen. That's the future I'm working for.

Also how older women are explored as sympathetic though smothering in "The Mirror Has Two Faces" and "Only the Lonely" where the mothers, played by acclaimed actresses of old Hollywood, face a societal obsolescence being pushed on them despite still feeling lively and how loosening their grip on their kids and traditional values help them grow

Harold and Maude? Do you think Maude was always a free spirit?

@@ruthspanos2532 I haven't seen that, sorry idk

That's an awesome idea tbh

The focus of Hollywood, and even this channel, is about pretty, young, and mostly white women.

And in the sequel series a bit.

Laura is a critique of our shallow consideration of victims of violence! She was, as far as I can gather from interviews with Lynch and Frost, a response to how inconsequential violence perpetrated against young women was portrayed on TV. Her death deeply touches every person in town and even upsets our relationship to reality, untangling appearances in response to grief, guilt, sexuality, and friendship.

Everytime I see Laura Palmer my heart still hurts

Laura Palmer's fictional character was based on the murder of Marilyn Monroe and another person who actually was she was laura's age when she was murdered. But she is given a bigger voice in the prequel movie fire walk with me, the missing pieces and The Secret diary of Laura palmer. I understand why they included her in the list but they should have mentioned both the prequel movie, deleted scenes and the book giving her a voice and deeper understanding of what she was fighting against. Especially the book.

@Erwin Lii exactly. this is exactly the issue i have always had with David Lynch. he writes his female characters through a sadistic lens.

Not everything is as literal as it looks. She probably has her reasons for working with him. Woody Allen's case is not as clear and direct to everyone. His current wife never made any allegations or claims against him, she adamantly wants to be with him and she's an adult. The problem is the unnatural circumstances of how they met. The other problem is societal view on it. They're both consenting adult who chose an unnatural course of action. I'm not condoning their act, I'm just saying it might also be hard for Blake to understand where she stands on the issue.

​@@LT-bk3qk She was groomed by him. The only reasons that she has to work with him is money. Just because his wife didn't say anything doesn't mean that he is innocent.

Same, in my mind i'm always worried about the actress and how they treated her during the filmation. The directors seem to think they are just toys they can play with instead of a person they should respect and conside their well-being. Those scenes to me are unnecesary, inaccurate and disrespectful not only to survivors, but to all women.

@@Chris-rg6nm shut up chris

@@Chris-rg6nm on second look, never mind. You’ve posted over 600 comments on this channel complaining about it, so I guess you have nothing better to do lol. Carry on I guess

@@kiriki4558 it adds realism to movies it should be in there

Lol this Chris person keeps commenting. This is exactly the sack of poop person who sides with predators and laughs when there are assault jokes. You’re so basic, Chris. Hopefully you have one redeeming quality, but seriously.. do better.

I think the show did an amazing job of re-imagining the character. She's inspired by an amazing and overlooked moment from The Avengers. And, the show is named for 2 characters: one who is retiring and another who is just starting.

People (grown man-babys) can complain all they want. But Disney manages the recreation of the heros recently, not falling for their sexist and temper tantrums. I mean, captain Marvel was creaded for little girls, who needed a súper heroine role model that was not in the background, not entitlled men and teenagers. The girls liked it and the family too, wich were the objetive public.

@@kiriki4558 Ms Marvel was created for little girls and any female readers of comics in general back in the late 60's though of course there weren't many at the time. She was also created to be Marvel's response to Wonder Woman. Captain Marvel on the other hand has only been established in the last decade of mostly poorly and lazily written comics from Marvel as nothing more than an incredibly unlikeable, incredibly selfish, incredibly self righteous, typical modern feminist icon that stripped away everything that use to be likeable, relatable and fun about Carol Danvers when she was Ms Marvel. She is such a horribly unlikeable character that when she killed Iron Man at the end of Civil War II, she showed absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Nobody likes her now, not even most female readers such as myself. Who says little girls and families liked the movie. I highly doubt that it is the case. Other than than her sheer power, there is absolutely nothing for any little girl to takeaway in regards to her character and relatability. They take a lot more from Rey than they would Captain Marvel because there is at least some level of relatability there and she is actually somewhat likeable character played a very likeable actress with a very likeable personality similar to Keira Knightley's. Most audiences and critics thought the film was bang average and forgettable which it absolutely was. Its not a terrible film by any means but the writing of Carol Danvers is horrendous and choosing to go with the unlikeable depiction in the comics over the last decade that nobody likes nor cares about instead of the one who is actually likeable, relatable, fun and most importantly far better, more natural fit for the MCU when she was Ms Marvel was a huge mistake.

@@taliamason7986in a good world, we’d be able to have a wide range of female characters. Likability and relatability are completely subjective, so we can have Rey AND Captain Marvel. It’s ok if captain marvel didn’t work for you. But she did work for me and my daughter, and it gets annoying seeing people assume that “this didn’t work for me” is the same thing as “this is bad”. Not only that, but people tend to dump hate on captain marvel in a way they don’t in other supposedly bad marvel films(say, Thor: The Dark World). Anyone who’s ever left multiple comments about captain marvel but never said a word about dark world should think about why they’re so angry about one but not the other

Like BoJack Horseman?

@@Angela.Perkins lol I was like sure, why would you bring that up specifically tho, and then I remembered my profile pic 😅

@@tess064 lol

yeah but they only went into detail about the gruesome history of sexual assault and incest in fire walk with me. twin peaks, as great of a show as it was, fell into the trope of reducing her to being this beautiful, mythological personhood who never had agency over her own life or choices.

@@milktoasted (spoilers) her choices re:bob directly lead to her being murdered. i feel she does have agency and her choices to not let bob in add a lot to her character. like shes trying to protect her loved ones and the townspeople from this evil force at the cost of herself

@@milktoasted yeah but it was aired on ABC so it’s not like they could have gone as in depth into her abuse as FWWM or The Secret Diary

Agree very much! Also, I was really creeped out by the wave of obsession with Sharon Tate that it provoked.

Absolutely!

Couldn’t agree more

What do you mean?

Absolutely

What's that movie about anyway?

@@mewesquirrel6720 ***SPOILERS AHEAD ***It's complicated. A story about extremely sheltered sisters (one of which committed suicide) who deal with domineering and suppressive parents who are desperate to "protect" them from the world by never allowing them to truly experience it. They connect with a group of boys that are fascinated by them and begin friendships through sneaking around their parents in various ways. ****SPOILER ALERT**** At some point the girls realize they can't live that way anymore and plan a group suicide for the boys to discover. It's a haunting and beautiful film and I heavily recommend it.

I loved the film so much. It was everything.

I really hate it. It turns the victim into a maniac psychopath, an evil person and ultimately the purpose of the main character was to "save" the one that abuse her. I've seen it like a male fantasy, like Carrie (I hate Carrie, really using a natural process that happens to half of humanity once a month like a horror plot?).

@@aureliekika her getting her period wasn't the "horror plot" of the movie. Carrie grew up with a fanatically religious mother who constantly abused her, she never had access to sex ed or anything comparable which ultimately led to the mean girls bullying her when she got her first period and was scared and vulnerable because of it. She wasn't bullied because she had her period, she was bullied because she was an outcast, that showed vulnerability in front of people who will exploit it for their own personal fun. This is also quite obvious, when they make her prom queen as a cruel prank in order to humiliate her by ruining her dress and appearance in front of the whole school and crushing her illusion of being accepted and liked. It is absolutely fine, that you do not like the movie but calling it a "male fantasy" is just straight up wrong, so please don't throw around these terms when they do not apply.

@@Max-sz9ez Tengaar clearly didn't watch Carrie beyond the first 10 minutes. Your analysis and summary are on-point.

Have to agree. The ending really surprised me and the film was fantastic overall.

I love the spirit ! I'm also a survivor of school bullying. It started when I was 7 and ended when I was 15.. Kids and teens can be horrible. So I support you and I hope you'll succeed as a writer ! (Sorry for my bad english.. >

@@Chris-rg6nm Lol, putz

@@Chris-rg6nm you forget the part about HARASSMENT BY THE TEACHERS

@@Chris-rg6nm why must you mock others to build yourself up?

@@Chris-rg6nm There's no acceptional age in bully, Chris. So have fun trying to push people down to go up, because that cycle loves it's member, and I hope you're ready when it comes back to you.

my condolences, take some time to find peace and grieve

@@theunknown5386 i think it depends on the character. For example, I don’t think Olivia walked away from it. Her past will always follow her but she does not dictate who it is. Some of the people she helps might not be able to follow the same path Olivia has and feel forced to walk away from it. It is a grey area which this show shows many time.

Be strong, be brave. You deserve to be loved.

It would be good if you could talk to a therapist about this. What you’re going through is normal for someone with that experience, and a therapist could really help you process it I think.

Thank you both. Though I don't think a therapist is an option. There's barely a therapist in our community. Plus I have family who's into medical field. Almost all doctors know each other. If I get one most likely they will find out. But it's fine, I feel better now. Though there are set backs. I've manage to work it for almost 20 years so I'd say I'm okay 🙂

@@aliceeve6421 That's good to hear! But just know that there are online resources for therapy too nowadays. Also, patient confidentiality is the first rule of being a therapist, it would literally be illegal to tell anything you say to anyone without your consent.

🙏. I encourage you to get a therapist and talk about it

ohh that would be so interesting

And the Secret Diary too written by Jennifer Lynch

I would argue that Bobby also had quite a bit of character development in _The Return._ It seemed like a lot of the more prominent members of the Horne family also had some development, and I'm not talking about that goofy Civil War arc, which to me was the worst of the original run.

@@wvu05 I totally agree actually, forgot about Bobby coming back as a good person lol but he’s one of the shining stars of the return in my mind, plus it was nice to see the Horne family yeah but I don’t know how much they changed in the show, even Nathan Horne in the second season just has a sudden change of heart with absolutely no explanation lol, but yeah the whole show is surprisingly complex.

@@wvu05 the civil war Arc was weird even in the context of twin PEAKS.

@@Bolts_Films I think that Ben had a psychological break once he lost everything except the Great Northern and Horne's Department Store. There are times where he talks about the difficulty of choosing to do good, which at first had me worried that BOB would inhabit him next. So, I think it's mostly being punished for his more untoward activities and wanting to right the ship to rebuild rather than a shift of conscience, which I think is even more compelling.

@@augustosolari7721 People complain about James leaving town and getting involved in the love triangle, but give me that over the Civil War arc any day of the week... even if it means hearing "Just You" at every commercial break ;-)

I read studies, that say overweight women are more likely to be attacked than others. NOT a reality Hollywood producers (or writers of thrillers) are ready to show their audience. IF the victim doesnt sexually appeal to the powers in the industry, her story isnt told. The end. 🙃

@@moustik31 Wow, that is awful, but honestly makes a lot of sense. It seems easier for predators to attack women that they know nobody is concerned about because she doesn't fit the "type".

I guess.. Millennials didn’t want that film included! 😂

@@VeeLondon1449 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Uhhh I'm so dumb, didn't get to the later part where they address that... sorry- should have waited till the end before commenting

I don't think it's a vendetta, it's just an example of a film that falls within the trope - this doesn't paint the /entire/ film as bad, it's just saying that this specific representation (across multiple movies) have these specific consequences. Kill bill isn't painted as bad or good, the video is just talking about the specific character trope (you can still enjoy the film and love it, but recognise the limitations of the trope)

It wasn't good representation. That's their point. Tarantino's answer to changing her narrative was to make her an inessential character that barely speaks? This is not the way. And for a director who has given us females like Mia, Jackie Brown, Beatrix, and Shosanna, that's quite a step backwards

You don't know Charles Manson?

Is it different from the Bombshell?

they made a video on the cool girl trope, it overlaps with the hot girl a lot

You don't have to force yourself to be healed. There is no right way. It's a messy and confusing process. I would say, listen but also trust your guts. Listen to how you feel and you decide what it means to you. Yes, I agree. We are an aesthetic age. We don't want to see the ugly. We want to handle things beautifully. There are so many ugly things. Trauma is plain ugly. We just find reasons to get through it day by day and see what tomorrow brings.

Wasn't that one of the points of the show? That her (or anyone's) suicide, while not her fault, is never the right choice because of the devastating consequences for everyone who knew her and ESPECIALLY not as a form of revenge. Her parents divorce, her mom braks down, her best friends all have mental breakdowns, several of whom try to kill themselves, her audio is a key piece of evidence that lets a known rapist go free and go to another school with a fresh start only to (presumably) start the cycle again.

Same, I couldn’t sympathize with Hannah. She didn’t take accountability for her actions and just blamed everyone around her.

And she blackmails Tony into passing out the tapes to everybody. I like how season two showed that Hannah wasn't a reliable narrator and had her flaws.

people with depression and PTSD (speaking from my own experience with assault and bullying) don’t always think logically and rationally. that’s kind of the point right? mental illness causes people to behave in a lot of ways they wouldn’t normally behave, and those behaviors are not always lovable. this is part of the stigma of having mental illness. because our behavior, feelings, and the decisions we make aren’t “likable” or “relatable”, we often don’t receive as much empathy as someone with a physical illness would. addicts face this societal stigma as well

I get deppresion can make people act irrationally (i had it myself and comes back time to time) But Hannah is such a weird case.The Clay thing could have been taken as how unreliable she is as a narrator because yes, Clay did nothing bad to her. Am sorry, but she told him to leave and he did as she wanted,i know what is like to push people off and be disapointed they didn't stayed anyway BUT thats not on them

Ok now name one not about the bad thing that happened to her

@@thepinkestpigglet7529 But what happened to them is the basis for the show. Both are mysteries and mysteries generally revolve around the victim. That's the nature of the genre, it's not sexist or exploitative. It's not like in a murder mystery, your going to flashback to a random day of the victim folding laundry or doing their banking.

The only thing wrong about 13RW was the tapes. But she was raped and abused and had a stalker taking photos of her. She was a decent person trying to find a good friend who was taken advantage of. She also did try to get help but the circumstances always failed her. Her reasons are valid. She was treated cruelly to a point where she snapped. She snapped and made the tapes.

I'm sorry to hear that. It really hurts when the person you want to be there for you just isn't. They shouldn't have just dismiss you. They should try to understand your memory. They should have just sat down and listened and be there with you. I have so much sympathy for you. I wouldn't know how to go through it alone. But live for you. I promise that there are good people somewhere out there. It takes time to find them and once you found the perfect support or people you can trust and be comfortable with. Life will be sweet. Just have hope. Give things a try. Because Life has deadline too, so we try and try to find that small glimpse of light and love.

@@LT-bk3qk Thank you! These are much kinder words than I was expecting! In the 18 years since, I've actually had a great life. It's taken awhile to address the memories, and there are some people in my life who may never really apologize for their role in what happened. But I've gotten to the point of being enough for myself so I don't need their understanding or apology. It really helps to realize one's become the kind of adult they needed at the age they were mistreated. I hope you are having a good life as well and that there are many people in your life who appreciate your remarkable empathy!

Maybe they’ll do another one on male victims like when they split sexual assault as humor into male and female victims.

@@WaitingxInxSilence like basically how sexual assault and violence against men is not taken seriously or is brushed off.

​@@WaitingxInxSilence They won't do another one on male victims. Even in this video they only mentioned it to say how it's ignored, while ignoring it.

@@Chris-rg6nm god they are stubborn. it feels like most people aren't ready to accept there are male victims too.

It´s a good topic, but I think they were talking about female characters. But also the character from Feel Good is non binary, and they miss-gendered them. Even if they were closeted at the season and time they are talking about it is kinda disrespectful if they use the wrong pronouns and cause someone even more dysphoria since they already know the character actual gender identity. Or either The Take did not watch and did not know about the actor as well and used the tv show as a reference anyway or they chose to miss-gender the character (and the actor). I´m genderfluid and I can see how bad it feels to be miss gendered by someone who knows me and decides to use the wrong pronouns just because I was closeted at the time (or chronology?) they were talking about. And I´m kinda disappointed cause I love this youtube channel! Sorry if I phrased anything wrong, english is not my native language

You're allowed to be flawed. You don't have to tackle this perfectly like a saint. You're human. You do your best day by day