Sadly Flawed! 2023 Toyota GR86 Review 

I agree 100%… I specifically bought the GR86 BECAUSE it lacked all of those ‘safety features’ that take control out of your hands and put it in the hands of a computer. Want a car that will keep you in lane and from bumping into other cars get a Tesla 🤣

@@Graceless I just got a new 300 Landcruiser but the first thing you have to do is disconnect the lane keep I can not find how to disconnect permanently. Very frustrating.

Totally agree, I can’t stand the features as they bug the life out of you, it’s simplicity is it’s best feature, just like a E30 M3, light, simple and quick enough

Or back up and forward sensors on a tiny car. Weird takes here.

Here in Western US you need to drive 40-60 miles stretches regularly just to get to the fun roads. Adaptive Cruise Control is amazing for our traffic conditions and long stretches. No one has fun driving a little car on a highway, better to just set it in Cruise and let the car handle the nonsense.

it's literally why I'm most interested in the GR. These guys are jaggoffs and completely miss the entire point of this car.

I hate to break it to you but when you account for inflation cars today are actually not much more expensive than they were when I started driving back in the late 70’s. For example, the price of a brand new Datsun 240Z in 1970 was the equivalent of about $23,000 in today’s money. And it’s the same story with the 1980 Mazda RX-7. These were both lauded at the time for being fantastic inexpensive sports cars - much like the GR86 is considered to be today. But even though we are paying about the same for cars these days when you account for inflation, we are getting SO MUCH more now. Cars these days will not only last 3 times longer but they handle better right from the factory then anything we could have dreamt of back then - even the 240Z kind of handled like shit in stock form compared to today’s cars. They also get much more power per liter of displacement than ever before. Not to mention the amazing safety features and entertainment systems. Basically we are getting ten times the car for about 25% more money. Frankly I’m amazed that cars are so much better today without costing that much more than the cars that were around when I was a teenager.

@@SLOBeachboy that’s crazy then kuz people used to be able to afford cars and houses. Now I gotta work 2 jobs just to afford a car, and will likely never get to own a home.

@@SLOBeachboyAverage salary in the US is around $60k a year, the average price of a new car is $65k. That is not normal

@@Mxkuh- Nobody is saying that both new and used car prices are not at an all-time high right now. We all know that they are. And we also know that they are about 25% more than pre-pandemic prices just a few years ago. Still it always cracks me up when people say that new cars are no longer “affordable” because the truth is that they have technically never been affordable for the majority of people who buy them so there is no reason to suddenly start whining about it now. In other words, even 30 or 40 years ago there were many people who stupidly bought new cars even though this would mean making car payments that amounted to more than 15% of their monthly income. By the way, the median income in the USA in 2022 was actually around $75,000 (has gone up since then) and the current average new car cost is around $45,000 (average between the low-priced models and the high-end models). In 1970 on the other hand the median income in the USA was around $9500 and the average new car price was around $3,500. This means that the average new car price was about 37% of the median income back then and now its 58% which is obviously a big jump. Of course, comparing a car from 1970 to a modern car is kind of like comparing the GPS navigation system on your phone to an old magnetic compass and paper map. Modern cars not only last 3 times longer but they are infinitely better in every conceivable way. But none of this really matters. The real problem is that people today feel they are entitled to own a brand-new car and therefore they think that new cars - even midrange new cars - should be “affordable” for them. Of course, purchasing a brand-new car has always been an idiotic move from a financial perspective. Financially savvy people with lots of money rarely ever buy new cars because they would never put money into a depreciating “asset”. In fact, it is mostly mid to low-income people who buy brand new cars. And I cannot even count the number of minimum wage employees I know of who stupidly purchased a brand-new car for themselves in the past few years. I have personally always bought used cars myself, although a few years ago I sold all my cars before moving overseas to retire. One of these cars I bought for $14,000 back in 2000 when it was 7 years old and I sold it for $35,000 20 years later. Anyway 6 months ago I decided to move back to California, and I immediately picked up a 2011 Honda CR-Z with a manual transmission for $3000 and I spent an additional $2000 for a new paint job. So now I have a very reliable and nice-looking car for $5000 that will probably last me for another ten years (seems affordable to me). And since it would not make sense to have full coverage on a car that is only worth $5000 my car insurance is only about $500 a year. Why would I spend $40,000 on a new car that might only be worth less than half that amount in ten years? I don’t know about you but I cannot afford to flush $20,000 down the toilet just so that I can feel good about myself because I am driving a new car.

I wouldn't buy it because it doesn't have self-drive.

All these modern assistant techs cause serious reliability issues, and most of them you don't even need. When electrical parts in your car fail, you can't fix it without having an expensive diagnosis system that can recalibrate and adaptations

Totally agree

Entirely agree

Absolutely, I am loving the fact the manual as all this garbage gone.

Spot on

I was never taught manual so I can't afford to buy a car in manual if I can't drive it, I'm still an enthusiast. Took my juke canyon carving and ending up racing a challenger down. Let people enjoy their cars despite what trans they got

Of all the things listed, the one thing I really would like on this car are parking sensors. Visibility is not great and a distorted (fisheye) camera view isn't exactly something I'd rely on.

That is just added weight. These cars intentionally skimp back on all the unnecessary odds n ends. That is why I love it. Even on cars that have sensors 360 cameras and all that which I own, I dont use it. As a heavy equipment operator all I need are mirrors.

Yeah but to think those features are standard on an Automatic model which only costs 2 grand more, I would happily pay the extra to have the safety features.

idk, I got blind spot monitoring on my manual BRZ (the side mirrors have the light when a car is in my blind spot). I also have reverse parking camera so can see where I'm reversing (and it shows excellent angle and you can see the back and sides of the car, so you will never hit anything if you look). Maybe it's different for different markets though, I'm in Australia and all model BRZ's have these features. The auto then get the eyesight features.

These things are certainly not a deal breaker for me either. I have put a lot of city miles on both a Honda and Toyota with the autonomous braking systems and I personally never found them to be of much use. For one thing I got a lot of false alarms when the car was actually not going to hit anything. For example, if a narrow residential road has a sharp bend in it the systems might think you are not going to turn with the bend and therefore are about to hit a parked car. Secondly, it did not activate on two occasions where it really should have when a pedestrian darted out in front of me. But even when the alarm does come on for a valid reason I was always able to hit the brakes long before they activated automatically. So, unless your are driving with headphone on playing your music at full volume, or you have the reaction speed of a turtle, the alarm itself should be sufficient. Of course,I guess it would be handy should you fall asleep behind the wheel. That being said I do sometimes wish other drivers had these things in the past, like the guy who back into me in a parking lot once. I also often wished that my 3rd gen Mazda RX-7 had blind spot monitoring. That is the only car I have even owned in which I almost changed lanes into other people. And after it happened a few times I realized that if you are tall like I am your head is so close to the very wide B-pillar that even when looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot there is still a blind area that you cannot see. With 99% of the vehicles out there however as long as you are checking your blind spot like you are supposed to you are not going to change lanes over anyone.

At least in North America the 24 manual models now come with eyesight lane keep/precollision. Blind spot was available for us on both manual and auto models in prior years. Also a back up camera should be more than enough for a small car like this given it has good visibility among other coupes.

I cancalled my GR86 after finding out how much they wanted for base and st8 to Subaru BRZ, not sure if I care about the safety features most of them are annoying and I would turn them off. At 43k out the door BRZ is crazy good value Will have mine by March can not wait

I ordered the GR86 because the BRZ is not sold in Europe. And yes, the lack of safety options in the manual is staggering. I really don't understand that. However, I can live with it, not a deal breaker for me. I want a driver's car.

Buy GR Yaris simple. Love mine. Has all the tech plus only a small price increase.

I chose BRZ as it is built & put together at the Subaru factory here in America. Plus I got it at MSRP while Toyota added 2k mark up. Absolutely in love would buy again if anything happens.

There not made or assembled in America. Both are made in same factory in Japan. Which most would see as a good thing

The manual BRZ in Australia gets blind spot monitoring.

You can remove it by taking off a little side panel from the dashboard to the right. Inside, there's a little sound box thing that you can disconnect.

@@lawnmower6591 What about the engine sound then, how good is it?

@Yaron Valach I haven't really heard it without the pumped in sound, but since it's a boxer, I'm assuming it has a low-ish rumble. I *think* I heard it once, and it doesn't sound half bad.

@@yaronvalach859 without fake sound it still sounds better than old gt86 engine. Sound smoother now

@@yaronvalach859 Sounds pretty crap, but get a cat back exhaust and it will fix it.

true, here in norway the 86 is way pricier than the mx-5. the manual 86 costs 729.000NOK(71,5k usd) meanwhile the top trim hardtop mx-5 costs 526.600NOK(51k usd). not a particularily good value.

100% agree plus consistent handling vs drive modes. Can’t go wrong with those options.

Or get the cheaper base model BRZ with those features too

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm 1 year into ownership. It's fantastic.

This car is fan flipping tastic. Wish they'd sell more.

Same I feel the older one never look good stock unless it's lower with body kits and wing.

Small speaker that is easily disconnected. In America it on passenger side. RU-vid videos how to disable

100% agree and the resale value of the Toyota will always be higher too..

Eye of Beholder… I chose BRZ as I think Toyota grill is frowning catfish. To each their own

The roads are rough where I live. The BRZ soaks up the bumps better than the 86 or my wife’s SUV. I don’t fatigue in it either. So great choice enjoy!

This must be a non-Us model thing.The BRZ is $200 diff here, and they are specd the same. I have. GR 86premium , and it has blind spot monitoring, but does lose most safety gear you mentioned. The suspension is different, the throttle mapping is different, and a couple of appearance items. My son has a BRZ limited on order and we discussed a lot about these cars. It came down to preferences really, as in The US at least, you don’t really get more on either car,and the price diff here is nothing , and it’s reversed. The GR 86 is $265 less than the BRZ

@@boldcitycc the brz is the cheapest and best specced manual (both bottom and top specs) in the world by currency conversion. Toyota Australia increased the price of the manual to the price of the auto for our gr86. ☹️

@@hsv215i no??? The base gr86 and the base brz are fairly comparable… both are cloth seats, both get the primacy tires, neither have heated seats, or the nicer sound system, it’s almost the same thing. You actually get more on the premium 86 vs brz because you get that duckbill lol

Toyota handles better, looks better and resale value will be better too..

Depends on the roads you have. In my state in America roads are rough. I test drove both and needed a more compliant drive. After a few mods will want a ecu tune on either car. I wouldn’t say one or other is huge difference. Pick by looks you prefer, roads you drive and dealership service.

It can do better. My best was 5.6 seconds and Caranddriver got 5.4 seconds.

If you take a 75kg driver doing the test, sub 6 is possible, it’s not exactly fair testing times with 2 large guys in the front seats, the power to weight ratio is utterly destroyed.

I’m taking a guess at 90kg for the driver and 85 kg for your passenger, 175kg is 100kg more to shift than ideal, 8% of the cars weight, 8% slower than what’s possible.

@@johnybigarms That's a very good point. I am 43.5 kg so that is why I can get under 6 consistently

Torque. and fuel economy. actually fuel economy for the most part. They replace it with 1.8t with even more torque.

Because this engine has Toyota's injection system in it, among other things. Wouldn't be able to do it without Toyota's permission.

Fair but does it have 4?

@@CarSauce If you had 4 in a 2 seater, you would have a serious drinking problem ;)

Disagree it should have the full suit of safety gear

Half the video is how it drives, and it’s great. Doesn’t take away from the fact Subaru / Toyota are cost saving hard and removing basic features for a 2023 car. And I’m comparing it the BRZ because it’s the same car for less money and more inclusions. Wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t

Your question should be.... Why Toyota do you remove safety gear on the manual? When Subaru will sell you the same car cheaper and with the safely gear....🤑

For what the car is, it’s far from over priced, if you’re factoring dealer markups, sure. This car was kept down in price and adjusted to inflation so young drivers can still experience spirited driving in a modern day vehicle based off the formula that was the foundation for 90’s golden era sports cars.

The RTV issue has been totally blown out of proportion. It's been "seen" in the pickup tube on more than a few cars, but the design of the pickup keeps it from limiting oil supply. This has not actually killed many engines if any. The only people who have blown engines have been on the track as far as I can find. Who knows what the actual problem there is, but even that has been an incredibly low number of issues. Enjoy your Elantra N though, they are really fun little cars.

I’ve only really heard of 1 engine death to RTV plus under warranty. A few others found rtv in oil pan but they reported no more than any other car.

@@TrojanRabbit521 💯

The engine is fine. Makes good power to redline and revs out nicely. Take out the fake engine fuse and it's just fine. These guys want a toyota sports car to be as isolated as a Toyota Camry. Which is a total load of crap. Such a weird review. They don't like the parts that make it a sports car.

@rishavroy1814 if the engine didn't have ths RTV problems, then maybe. Idk what other major issues it might have, other than the oil starvation.

When it wasn't waiting for a flatbed truck?

@@miatand1156 Most reliable car I ever owned - twit

@@hsv215i The GR86 is cheating being 12 years younger

It was carrying over 200kg of lard that couldn't drive for $hit though! ...

@@Mr7letmein Says a guy who thinks a GR86 is some kind of Ferrari. 🤡

Euro Nerd

Compared to what ? Miata mx5 is more expensive with only 2 seats.

Over priced vs what? Fun factor off the charts is worth every penny.

GR86 with new HKS supercharger @ 300hp will be a performance bargain compared to $60k+++ Porsche Cayman.

I imagine you have no legs either lol