Well done, gentlemen! This is good conversation. The kind that separates the men from the boys regarding general breeding formulas and genetics. Thanks for this gift! Much love and respect from Louisiana.
If your looking for and the GHK Men are looking for a much larger subscription keep pulling up peds and study them on your shows cos that’s what people will watch and learn from. Mo cracked it with them peds he was pulling up. Great stuff.
@allwilkennels9809 Yessir. You'll have longer term success doing it that way. All breeding methods have their place but with linebreeding you can continue with longer than you can inbreeding or outcrossing.
I have another opinion on the scatterbred topic and I think it's a term used to down the opposite teams dog back in the days. Also I think it can be used when a dog don't have a pedigree at all and is bred to one that does so those people can have dogs like the ones they have now
Something that helped me breed is referring to present dogs as xyz stock…not bloodline unless it’s close and pure or directly from xyz breeder. When it comes to colors understanding genetics has helped me tremendously. I started breeding about 20 yrs ago and just bred good dogs and names without that understanding or really knowing how to read a pedigree. But when I think back to breedings and puppies it now all makes sense! My second pit was like 2 gen removed from Bolio and about 1/4 Colby bred to an all white redboy female. The pup I got was the only solid red red nose reverse brindle with Irish markings. I bred him several times and the pups were all over the place temperament wise but the good ones were really, really good and the bad ones weren’t curs but cold. They take lick and just stand there, no running, noise nothing just a look of like ummmm ok lol. To me it’s kinda like a dumb gene lol, but I digress. What I got from that is that was gameness in its raw form imo.
Very good comments and you described exactly what a cold dog is. Even if you weren't following peds back then you came to realize certain patters and that helped you later in building your own family of dogs.
I been saying it in doing it for yrs breeding dogs for specific traits instead of pedigrees the dogs make the valuable pedigrees not the other way around great show salute fellas 💯
Some many gems in these…but yeah you really have to study the lines a lot of this match up that they call “scattered” just gotta kno what you’re looking at
Good video Richard, along the topic of “lines” let me share with you what lead to the pitbull before it came to America, this is the history I read from a book I once read, “in the early 1800’s a new queen in England outlawed bull baiting, figures it’s a female, and you had a whole bunch of English bulldog breeders that had lines of baiting dogs that had been passed down for generations standing with their hands in the cookie jar saying, “well what now?” Were these dogmen going to cull them all because the OEB (Original English Bulldog) was notably very people aggressive and couldn’t be put into a family setting. What do they do. Well, the rat pits had been going on for many, many years so it was considered to fight them dog vs dog in the pits. Problem, the OEB was bred for one thing, to grab hold of a bull’s nose and hang on. One piece I read on this subject was that during fair season when a breeder was selling pups, before the ban, that to prove the worth of a bulldog breeding they would put a pregnant bitch on a bull and while she was in hold the owner to prove she was a good one would cut her leg off to prove she wouldn’t give up her hold, very brutal but effective. And when these dogs were pitted because of the traits they were bred with the dogs would meet in the center of the pit, grab hold, and lay there for extended periods. So it was determined that they failed in dog vs dog battles. What now? Someone thought of the dogs used in the rat pits, various terrier types (they don’t use breeds over there when it came to working terriers) that were very exciting to watch, so the idea of crossing the rat pit dogs with OEB’s and the rest is history” The most successful of these OEB-terrier crosses was, yes you guessed it, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but it wasn’t the only one of these crosses, yes you guessed it again, the English Bullterrier. Here is what we need to know about these crosses because it’s stated in the names that were later shortened by KC (kennel club) people for ease in saying, Staffordshire (where it was used/developed) Bull (OEB) and (which was removed to shorten the name) Terrier (for the various pit terriers used in the cross), so we have the original name as Staffordshire Bull and Terrier, English Bull and Terrier. The reason for the stark difference in conformation/looks was due to the terriers used in the cross, primarily the B&T (Manchester) in the Staffordshire, and the now extinct English White Terrier in the English Bull Terrier. All of this is easy enough to find if you look hard enough but how does this relate to the video above? Well, all the various terrier breeds recognized by the different KC’s that changed them from a “type” to a “breed” followed the same rules as the first pitdogs. OK, this next bit infuriates certain fanciers on both sides of the Atlantic so hang on, we’ll use a breed that most bulldog people have heard of, the Patterdale Terrier, the Patterdale was a working terrier that was created and used in a village named Patterdale, and it was originally known as the Lakeland Terrier. The diggers (as in badger digging) in the UK don’t use KC names, they are simple people that use simple descriptions, and the Patterdale as well as most working breeds, is known as either a “black”, “red”, “black and tan”, or “white” usually in front of dog and/or “Fell” which is where they are from, the Fells, or the Lakes, or the border, and sometimes where and how exactly they were used, the famous “Cairn” terrier, Toto in the Wizard of Oz is named because they were used in cairns which are huge rock piles that were undiggable. The Patterdale, aka Fell, was used primarily for badger digging, and it was a cross between Staffs and Lakelands, get too big and bully, add some Lakeland, get too small and fine boned, add some bull (Staff). Simple. This directly relates to crossing the various lines (or types) back and forth to get the “type” you are looking for.
@@richardgarciaschoolboy7746 - I love the thought behind the Staffordshire and Bullterrier, it goes hand in hand with this topic, crossing "lines", over there it's "types", to get good dogs, the only thing I don't know is did they cross staffs and bullterriers back and forth with OEB's and pit terriers to get back to the type they wanted? I know they still do this with badger dogs (Patterdales or more accurately Fells) to keep that "type" that is needed, notice I said needed, not wanted, some of the stuff I've heard on the gameness on those little dogs is amazing I don't know if you remember the match reports from the 80's in the SDJ where Wheaten terriers were going up to 3 hours in the pit with game bred Staffs? what they don't tell you is they were crossing Staffy Bulls with Wheaten for high bred vigor, the same thing you were talking about in this video, great stuff
@davidellette4992 Some people were definitely using those "crosses" and I believe they crossed them with staffs and pit bulls to add fresh blood to their breedings.
In todays time with game lines wouldn't b hard to have a Scatter bread since basically theres not a lot of diffrent lines crosses that go back in these type of dogs. In like when you said something on color with your family of dogs i could of been wrong but in the tramp line i had it seemed like the red ones that had a lighter color on there jaws seemed to b the ones i likes more in when talking to a other man that tramp line also said he noticed that with his line now your lines were somewhat the same but we had some Differences tramp is what we focused on
I live in Central EU. Romania, Balkan, Macedonia, Bulgaria and especially Serbia. The law is not the same. I been to Shows In Serbia and its much more friendly enviroment for the Sport. They still do big Shows. How does that affect breeding you might ask? Well Best x Best is a big thing over their. But the circle of dogs become related. Why? Because sooner or later the blood will meet again. It's not a big country, the Dogmen know each other they got their own stock of high performance blood going strong for 30 years. I will give you an example, They got a bloodline called "Jumbo" which is basically Redboy x Jocko x Jeep. This dog you can find in almost every bloodline in Balkan. They got dogs from "Country Boys" which is a blend of Snooty x Boomerang x Bullyson. Both these bloodline has been going strong their for 30 years. I mean high high level of competition. Any dogman worth his salt would want to win. So they swap dogs, trade, see who is winning, what they do etc. Its human nature. Do that for 30+ years and the dogs become related.
That's been true since the beginning of the breed. You have to acquire dogs from different breeders then go through them and breed the best ones. After that you breed the offspring and they all become related,as I've mentioned. Much respect to Eastern Europe for keeping the breed going.
@@richardgarciaschoolboy7746 yea i imagine itd probably be atleast $1500 shipping plus the cost of the dog not only that itd be high risk traveling across countries but in the end depending on what the american dollar value is over there it may not be more than $1000 more than what these kenbels sell for ....... Maybe not
I have a heavy bred T-Bud dog that’s chocolate I bred him to a daughter out of the FL Walker x Velvet dog which is the Dynamite stuff and the whole litter came out black and one buckskin with black muzzle! But I bred that same male to my wildside x old family x snooty female and the all came out chocolate except one and he came out red with a chocolate muzzle!
Hi schoolboy I like your channel and find it very interesting, I have a question about the top side and the bottom side of the old apbt could you please explain what is the difference between the top and bottom? Respect to you schoolboy.
Hello. I appreciate your support. The top side of a pedigree refers to the sire's side of the family tree and the bottom side refers to the dam's side of the family tree.
Sometimes I rather breed to a lesser when they show really game as one I seen win two or whatever in never had show if they were game in I seen more then a few of those winners when they had show if there were game they stopped on all 4,s but that's just me not saying I never breed to winners but the ones I did showed they were game
Honeybunch in my opinion would definitely dropped black pups if she was bred like it was reported...Morris carver wasn't known for integrity in the game...plus she looks like boomerang blood... I bred 2 black litter mates and got half of the litter red/yellow red-nose ...
As far as Honeybunch dropping black pups because her sire was black that's not necessarily true if she was bred to a Buckskin male. If the sire is Buckskin and the dam is Buckskin and a grandparent is black you could not get a black pup.
Hey schoolboy big fan ❤️💪 and I just had a question I was given a free pup from a family member because I love dogs particularly game dogs and the pup has Leroy witch ig make the jeep tab stuff with eli, carver and boyles and i was just wondering how would u breed that pup i ask because its so many bloodlines in one pup so i was just wondering where would u start
Thanks for your support. I would breed him to something he already has in him which means breeding him back to the bloodline you like the most or is available and after that you can breed him to one or more of the other bloodlines he has in him.
Right I gotcha and like I said I'm not to familiar with Leroy as well alot of people in Dublin Georgia is familiar with it and says it's bad ass but I've never heard of it all my stock is off Tom garners champion Dexter 3xw off el negro heavy Eli red boy blood so I might just breed him to something from my stock and see what I get but ok thanks schoolboy and I watch everything u post so u will here from me again❤️❤️💪
Hi Mr Richard I have serious questions I know you been in the game for a long time on the game dogs I wanted to know if I take a bolio pitbull and breed it back to a razor edge bully do you think i would be able to create a pretty good all around game dog
Buenos dias Capitan numero Uno!! Been studying Boyles Dirty Mary like u advised. My next question is mathematical If I'm trying to preserve the blood of this one main female to always have the blood as an out for the future. If I keep inbreeding her kids back to her what's the highest percentage of her original 100% can expect to carry forward? Gracias de nuevo!!!🔥💪🏿💯LETS GET IT!!💯💪🏿🔥
Buenos dias. If you continue inbreeding you'll end up with many faults. It's best to take the best son of hers back to her one time and use the best female off of that breeding as a brood female and the best male as a stud.
@richardgarciaschoolboy7746 Gracias Capitan!! Question: so when I get to that point those pups represent 75% of what I wanted to keep correct? If so is there a way to get a higher percentage of what I want to preserve? And in your opinion is 75% enough or would u try to get higher if u could. Gracias salud!!!
@@bighillfamIt's all you need but if you want to inbreed more you'd have to choose only the best ones and breed very selectively and your percentages will drop.
@richardgarciaschoolboy7746 GRACIAS CAPITAN!!! I Truly appreciate all u continue to contribute to" THIS THING OF OURS!!!" OH and before I forget🔥💯💪🏿LETS GET IT!!💪🏿💯🔥
Maybe some old family red nose dogs are bred for color. A person can can get a good example of an old family dog and build off it. You can still maintain vigor. A person can start with Hollingsworth dogs. Red red nose. Maybe you look at your redboy family. Add in some of those. Tonka was known for stuff. Irish dogs were made on a certain traits. Most of the black dogs and black nosed dogs are English. Eli dogs. They are bred on different traits. Mixing in random families it will lower your traits. I value intelligence. A dog has to be safe around a family or it's no good to me. Structure is important to me. A person has to be discerning when putting new genes in your gene pool. It annoys me that people think certain things only come from eli dogs. Irish dogs have other traits. And some may have that trait only some people weren't focused on it. Any of those families will change based on who has them. There is another concept called genetic drift. Even if a set of dogs has the same foundations they will change over time. Ie You can look at stone city dogs. Buck yellow crosses. Same family different blood. Gr ch yellowbuck is a different dog than mayday etc. A person can stick to a family based on performance and not have to add Eli or throw random dogs in "best to best" breedings. Irish dogs. Gameness, style intelligence.
@@richardgarciaschoolboy7746 I don’t mean to get argumentative but it’s annoying. For some reason i like Irish dogs. I’m black I had reddish hair on my arms when i was little my girl is Irish. It’s like a mentality. Everybody prob has a breeding style. I agree with you on the performance thing. We aren’t breeding akc dogs. These are better conversations in person.
@@jonathansledge5790 No offense was taking and everyone is entitled to their preference. The Irish dogs and the Irish have a rich history in this country and abroad. Respect to you.
@richardgarcia I have a gyp i have no idea how shes bred shes super shy i hate that but she is very athletic and even though shes a small dog shes very strong shes great with humans my 4 month old puppy bullys her for food yet she hates all grown dogs male or female it doesnt matter she hates all adult dogs i cant figure out wether i should add her to my program or not shes our pet i love her strength and athleticism turns on like a light switch takes a army to yurn off though any suggestions
I understand. If she works out for you and you like her the only way to tell is to breed her and you can keep track of her and her offspring after that.
I seen Black dogs bred as a family of dogs and then the red red nose dogs start turning up…I don’t know but been told it’s recessive in the genes. Whatever that means.
You're right. Recessive means it's a trait that takes over other traits and becomes dominant like breeding two dark colored dogs but getting a red or white pup from it but the red or white has to be in the background somewhere.
Hey schoolboy I'm a big fan I watch u all the time and I had a question I was given a free game dog and it had Leroy, Eli, carver, boyles and I was wondering how u yourself would breed that dog with all those scattered bloodlines in one dog just wanted some advice
@@richardgarciaschoolboy7746 Mr Garcia what you think about the Mexican Eli Cardenas stuff bread to the Madeline's outlaw red boy stuff in your opinion?
No disrespect to know one but it have lots of people out here in the dog world who jus got dogs with awesome pedigrees and that's jus it awesome pedigree but that's all they know about their dog they don't know nothing about there dog's to try and keep a trait off them I am not saying to test ur dog on another dog we know that's illegal but it got other ways to see what ur dogs is about to try and breed for the traits u like that's why wen people buy let's say a Jeep dog from Florida and sum one else buy a Jeep dog from North Carolina the Jeep from Florida don't act nothing like a Jeep dog but the other Jeep dog from the proven stock who Goin after traits acting like the real thing I know people who got these kennels got to make a living selling there dogs but I feel jus breeding nice paper work alone can't cut it because real talk it's like u robbing sum one of actually getting what they want or paid for and I will keep it real lots these kennels selling a bunch of curs to people because what is he proven in doing other than on a chain or lock up in a cage what is he proven in doing as a game dog ????? And then that same dog will breed to another cur and sell all around then wen sum one who get one who will test it to see whats its about they will be disappointed like I said I ain't trying to disrespect no one but jus selling dogs with nice papers alone and jus pick and choosing who to breed and sell the public can't cut it my opinion
You're right. The pedigree is important but if you're not doing anything with your dog you can't know what traits it has. There's hunting and ratting and legal sports you can become involved in and also just exercising your dog matters. Traveling with them and socializing them around people,not other dogs,all matter.
No disrespect but everyone goes back the the original stock or the beginning...like the Dibo dog or way back to Colby....just like I would say my hatches/gamefowl isn't a hatch because back then they came from the whitehackle
I have another opinion on the scatterbred topic and I think it's a term used to down the opposite teams dog back in the days. Also I think it can be used when a dog don't have a pedigree at all and is bred to one that does so those people can have dogs like the ones they have now
It was used to down people's dogs if there was no form or function or performance to back the ped. If a dog doesn't have a ped it's unknown and if it's bred to one that does I can see how it might be called scatterbred.
