Lowkey shitty people. Like, what's going on in their head? It's like when you make fun of the little kid's drawing of a dog just because you're an amazing artist. Like, wow your an ok fighting game player making fun of players in a beginner tournament, so amazing. Why can't you just let beginners feel proud of themselves?
I remember I streamed a small SFV tourney where the highest ranked player was a silver, some dude literally came in the chat just to shit on people for being bronze rank. How boring is your life to make you even think about doing that? Some people are just beyond shitty
@@diangelo786 It's even more annoying when the person making fun of others is an online only who thinks they're hot shit for being like 3 ranks higher. Like bro, not shitting on people who only play online,(I only play online but I plan on going to my first tourney once covid settles down) but if you don't even go to tourneys, don't even pretend like your hot shit just because you can do a good combo and know how to block. Sure, trash talking is fine, but don't pretend like ur hot shit
Back during the first few years of SF2, the top arcade players in California apparently called them “neck kicks.” And like… yeah! Yeah, they really are!
Why would he stop? Hes getting mad 💵 almost broke character trying hide himself from laughing after throwing the controller, yall fall for the rage lore too much lmfao
@@GurenKitsune he's the lowest of the lowest hanging fruit to pick from the litter. not even comparable to the average scrub. the man's smart enough to cash in on his reputation. at this point ur doing something wrong
You're not winning brownie points for pretending to not be emotionally invested in your being a scrub. Sit down, shut up, and give your superiors another W.
@@ludgerwillkresnik4871 at first i thought you were being ironic with your comments but now i think you're actually just a knob, especially with that horherhisto-sounding crap in another comment lmao
As the ladies have famously said: "I don't want no scrubs". As the Melee community has said, "No Johns". As somebody smart somewhere said: "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing badly". One of my favorite things about his channel is the "progress, not perfection" mentality you bring to the FGC. Keep it up Sajam. Love this stuff! (From a professional educator :)
Yeah no. Progress means nothing once you have anything that can be held against you to invalidate your entire life. You don't have to be perfect, but you better appear *flawless.* As long as your W/L rate is 100%, you're fine.
One thing that is good to remember is that lot of things that feel normal to fgc people because they are used to them can seem incredibly bullshit to newer people. Imo it's good to have some sympathy towards that. But you also gotta recognize when someone is genuinely an asshole.
Oh yeah, I've run into this a ton where I say something like "X character is bullshit why are they in the game" just mainly trying to vent, and then everyone and their mother in the discord chat starts saying "Oh X character is fine.", "just keep fighting them", "go into the training mode and practice more" while the validity of the advice can be true. I literally just wanted to vent and someone to empathize a little, even mentioning it to those people and they brushed it off and said "If YoU WaNt To ImPRovE You GotTa StOp WiTH tHaT MenTAliTy". I 100% agree that sympathy and making sure to empathize with beginners, validating their frustrations sometimes, can help because some times the beginners need to see "oh hey they also struggled with this at first" not just "lol cmon bro just do this, this, and this to fix it don't ever get mad" and "it's a mentality problem if you get frustrated."
@@KingLeone201 I think it's OK to be mad sometimes as well as complaining to vent every now and then, I've been there and everyone has been there at some point in their life. What people find annoying in general is when someone can't take responsibility for his own mistakes and acts as if admitting they did anything wrong meant death.
@@KingLeone201 Mind if I give my perspective on this? I and others tend to be people who [See a problem] and try and [Solve a problem]. And when somebody "vents" like you describe, you're effectively presenting a "rhetorical problem" where you unintentionally present to these people an issue that isn't an issue... So yeah, it's not surprising you get "advice" you don't want instead of the emotional support you desire. That's just how some folks are. And we can get confused and frustrated when we offer solutions and the person pushes against our advice and double-down on their vent. I think you have to bear with us on it. It's not that we can't sympathize. We just take a rational approach to these issues, though at times the "irrational" approach is what's actually needed. Even now I'd want to provide a "solution" to dealing with people who only know to give solutions instead of addressing the emotional aspect... But I suppose I'd be still missing the point. I'll just say that you may just have to go a bit out of your way to find somebody who can relate to your struggle in a more alleviating way. There's sure to be somebody who you'll connect with. ...Oh, and what doesn't help your cause is the people who actually mean the things they say. Or they "vent" by saying awful, terrible things about themselves that would be very hard to just ignore. Unfortunately some people take losses waaay too personally. =/
@@KingLeone201 Especially true when problems legitimately exist in a game(try beating third strike Chun with Sean, or labbing a matchup against a character you don’t even own, good fucking luck) and fanboys downplay accurate criticism. Mindless dogma in place of empathy is always gonna put off potential additions to the community.
It's interesting being part of a "dead" game because with these games people look at a new player and are like WELCOME OH CHOOSEN ONE because 1 new player is very good. In BBTAG there are a lot of people when they come in who Don't know about basic stuff like DP or Numpad Notation and every time I'm super excited because I can help and even if they leave my game they have learned
Why would tag players need to know what a DP is when Tag doesn't HAVE DPs? And to be fair about Number Pad Notation, the games themselves don't use it, and it only really seems to be used in the Arc System Works fighting game community while Street Fighter/Capcom and I think KoF/SNK stick to Motion Notation or whatever it's called. I can't say the lack of knowledge on NPN is really anyone's fault and is just something you'll have to teach newcomers.
Dp is just what I call reversal actions true anti air with no way to block and since for most characters it's a rising upercut it's just easy. And I don't blame them for not knowing stuff like Numpad Notation. It's just that alot of the people coming to Tag are RWBY fans or Persona fans (who can't play P4A) who don't play fighting games and teaching them the basics is just a thing to do.
In our local scene, we called an "option select", which is just another term for excuse or being a scrub. "I don't even play this game!" when losing was a pretty popular one. Even made a excel sheet to keep track of all of them, and who said it.
@@Rek503 I remember the first time I played 3rd strike (I'm an airdasher player) I used Ibuki and picked her command grab super which apparently is her "bad" one, but since I didn't know what I was doing I was just landing straight hits and using it as a reversal, people were confused by it and they were asking me about it because they saw me win with it and they were trying to figure out if I had some secret Ibuki tech or something lol. I just told em I dunno what I'm doing so I picked the super that acts as a dp. Fundamentals carry you I guess lol.
I've always been saying this, especially when I see scrubs calling better player elitists for simply pointing out their problems. What makes a scrub a scrub is not that they're bad, but that they refuse to get better because they will never reflect upon themselves.
I was playing recently on Fightcade, 3rd Strike to have fun. A guy picked Sean an i beat him with Hugo. Then he picked Urien and was constantly doing full auto flowchart plays and invincible aegis setups. After like 2 losses he started throwing random shit around, random taunts and teabags even when i was doing nothing, so after the 6th match i just quit and said "no thanks, you're just wasting my time". The guy was acting all surprised until he busted out a "i was just beating your ass" and "Don't get mad". Now, how can you expect me to not be mad if you desrespect me? What kind of mentality is that?
My rule has essentially become “if you teabag, you don’t get another match.” I hate that it’s come to that, but everyone who teabags ends up being nothing but an asshole after the set
I'd rather a noob teach me to get to their level than a pro. The noobness is still fresh in their minds and they know what you're struggling with a little better.
My difficulty with fighting games stems from understanding that it is much easier to press buttons than to block and punish, or space correctly and then punish. After I understood that, I became a better player, then I realized that I only became a better player because I played a character that has strong keep out tools and I fundamentally lack the ability to whiff punish from neutral and create pressure. Instead of learning to create pressure with my character, I am currently learning a new character that requires these techniques to play effectively. As someone who was by all means a beginner and only played casually with my siblings and never "got good" until the last 2 years, I'd say the hardest thing for a beginner to realize is, what are their weaknesses and how their wins are predominantly because their opponents have been inadequate. It is not easy for them to realize what they are lacking if they've never been guided on concepts and shown why they are playing the game poorly.
Unfortunately pushing buttons is way better than it looks. Sometimes you just have to ignore fundamentals and return to monke, it will pay off if you're playing good characters
While it kinda vastly differs depending on which game you're playing and this won't apply to everything, the idea here is that as long as you're winning with that char who is good at keepaway, I don't think you're actually doing anything wrong. Some people just like certain playstyles more than others. Some playstyles click faster. You don't need to master every playstyle out there, you only really need to expand when you aren't winning any longer, and finding out what to work on next out of a list of things you know you could do better is good there. Now, I play airdashers and in those merely whiff-punishing in neutral is not really too big of a component, it's more about mobility and mixup and stuff, you get your hits from crossups and unreactable overheads and grabs in those sorts of games, so you really don't even care to be in a neutral situation where you're trying to land stray hits.
When I first started playing fighting games, even when I was being bodied or zoned really hard I was having a lot of fun, and it felt great when I finally was able to body some people. A lot of new players get frustrated, but I'm glad I was able to avoid that frustration.
It's about how you frame your problems. Like... Look, I'm a Smash Ultimate player, and a mediocre one besides. Motion inputs are not a part of my muscle memory. I can't do some intermediate techniques consistently, either. But instead of complaining that they exist and screaming to lower the skill ceiling, I think or ask "I'm struggling with X, how do I get better with/against it?" It really is an attitude thing.
I do love that when you fight people you totally say stuff like "man that thing that guy did was tight/yup I was wrong there". It actually does make it a treat to watch.
"Come across in that way....because they're afraid no matter what they say people won't take them serious because they're new." It was this for me. I would see what I would say was a reasonable concern presented in maybe an unreasonable way being mocked by scrubquotes and came away with the idea that since nobody even wanted to address the core complaint that they would've laughed and called them a scrub even if the question wasn't shrouded in anger and vitriol. Complaints about learning input commands became "lmao look at this guy he thinks input commands are hard what an idiot" instead of figuring "hey maybe they're doing something wrong to make those commands difficult and we could suggest something they could try to learn better". I used to BE that girl that thought input commands were ludicrous. Literally years of not understanding until someone explained to me what a gate was and if I'm using a controller I should use the D-pad instead of the analog stick. That was *literally* all it took, but it absolutely should not have taken so long for a single person to point that out instead of making fun of people not being able to do inputs.
I think how you ask is also important. If you come across as bitterly trying to justify a loss (which is the general tone of most of the quotes on that Twitter page) then you get harsher treatment than if you come across as genuinely trying to learn. That said, some people are so entrenched in the genre that they forget a lot of the stuff that they take for granted (input commands being an excellent example) is totally foreign to a newcomer so I do think people could stand to be more tolerant there. And, of course, some people are just assholes. Nothing you can do about those.
The whole "use the dpad and not the analogue" thing is very true but most people I think just kinda take it for granted, it's like explaining to someone which side of the fork to hold.
I have an extremely wild, wacky movement heavy playstyle, analog stick is much better for the rapid back and forth linear inputs (such as run stop in Darkstalkers & vs games, short jumps in KoF etc) D pad is better for doing precise/inputs by themselves to practice, such as double half circle or other "crazy SNK inputs" (power geyser, haoh shoh ken, qc>hc etc)
Yes, you understood it at first. Be seen and not heard, unless your W/L ratio is 100%. You want the right to speak? Go ahead, but you better make sure nobody finds proof of your losses.
Sajam, Leon and Aris are the only three that keep me "in touch" with fighting games. I think getting into a game nowadays is largely about finding a personality you like that you can run back to for approval, advice or understanding; especially as a solo (mostly offline) fgc member. Of course the game has to be good but if you don't have something outside of it to consistently reinvigorate your interest in it, interest'll most likely fade. There's just too many good games to play, even if you just play fighting games.
Surprised he didn’t bring up LTG as an example of pure scrubiness, that screeching excuse of a human being is a living, breathing scrub quote generator.
@@ludgerwillkresnik4871 oh you never seen it before? If you search on youtube "sf4 gandhi" it should be the first result. But tl;dr versrion. Gandhi clearly had no idea how to play or at thevery least played sf4 very casually and ended up beating the other guy who was expecting a gandhi to do top player stuff. The other guy never adapted and ended up being frustrated and ultimately lost to gandhi. Classic textbook example of scrub vs beginner.
"there’s a big difference between a scrub and a beginner" Reminds me of a certain sf salt mine Anyways great analysis as always and i hope this help increase fighting games playerbase/communities
I started playing SFV recently and picked up Rashid because he looks super cool. Played a few games online and honestly got fuuuuucked up. Had a ton of fun though because honestly I just like looking at the game, especially Rashid’s silly wiggly legs when he does CA. Edit: the point of this is that yeah you’re exactly right. Being new is not = being a scrub
I like quite a bit of the stuff he does, but he has a lot of misses for me too. He has a lot more volume than other video essay creators, which helps his chances of hitting something good each time IMO
And what makes him cooler is that he is a guilty gear player, and always uses guilty gear as a point of reference. While some other creators always have to use street fighter as a point of reference,like they are obliged to that series or something.
I started to take fighting games a bit more seriously but still a huge beginner. I love learning but man I SUCK at approaching. A few months back I played some sf3.3 and got utterly destroyed, while being utterly destroyed I was bursting in laughter and had a really good time and learned a lot
worst thing is I didn't even realize for the longest time that there was something special going on with jump head over other sides. I thought I just accidentally pushed a button or accidentally blocked low for a second or *something* all the way until I coincidentally heard an experienced player talk about crossups.
Whenever issues of complexity and accessibility come up, doesn't it seem like it's all experienced players speculating about, or speaking for, new players?
3:17 I’ve been highlighting that distinction for a decade now. But unfortunately, sometimes, you seem to need to be a pillar of this community before anyone takes what you have to say into account- for changes to future behavior, specifically. Thanks for chiming in, Sajam.
When did people start thinking that "bad" equates to "scrub"? I've been bad at fighting games for like 30 years now, but that just means I can take an L like a champ.
This video came at the time where I had to explain what a command normals are to my friend that I kinda teach and i had to think for a good minute 🤔 he asks the good questions
I've always been of the opinion that scrubs are anyone who refuses to adhere to the logic of the game, I.E Player shoots consecutive fireballs, You jump it or block it, but a scrub would call it spamming. People who are convinced that it's the game or the other player's fault, rather than themselves, and they don't want to grind the training room to get better. They just keep doing the same things over and over expecting it to work out and when it doesn't they complain.
its likely that people keep thinking scrubs and beginners are the same might be because a lot of people tend to use it interchangeably. For example leffen mentions low/beginner level as scrub level of play when it comes to games like melee.
Yeah this is a thing in FPS scenes. People are like "I'm just a scrub" when addressing their skill level. There are some people in those scenes who have read Playing to Win, but it's less of a thing than in the FGC.
This is actually why I wanted to make videos on fighting games even though I'm bad at them. It's a type of video that just isn't seen and I think it's a unique and interesting perspective to have. The only difficulty is I don't have time any more ;-; I'd love to see other people take a crack at it
You will like the old 'My first road to EVO' vlogs back in the early 2010's. Its a whole experience of players training up for EVO but also tempering their expectations, their backgrounds and motivations. It ends up being corny for the most part in the end but they are definitely unique perspectives in how they handle losing but come backs when the opportunities knock.
A scrub is someone that injects his own personal set of rules into a game and then expects everyone else to play along with it even when there's no way for his opponent to even know about his made up rules. Everyone else just plays by the rules the game provided, the scrub does not.
Thank you for this! I've been concerned about people having a misconception about what we call "Scrubs"! Like you said, we don't (or at least shouldn't) call people "Scrubs" simply because they're bad, but because they don't want to adapt or admit their losses. I've come across players who are inexperienced at a game, but instead of complaining about their matchups they enjoy the game and sometimes even ask how to improve at them; therefore, they don't classify as "scrubs". Now Leffen on the other hand I can say is someone who has proven to have the skills of a top player in his field, but has the attitude of a "scrub"; therefore he can be classified as such. DSP and LTG are also easy examples of scrubs. Also, I love reading ScrubQuotes on Twitter, because not only do I consider them funny, but also because I can use them as an example not to be like those guys whenever I lose!
I always feel everybody is faster than me, like Im doing a block string and do not know anything to do other than block but I get mixed up and feel like im getting punish for attacking even with safe moves :(
I felt that way starting out too. I felt overwhelmed by people who had more of an understanding of the game. It just takes time to get the flow of the match down. Knowing when to pick your spots comes with experience. Cause what you think might be a safe string could have a gap your opponent knows to slip through
Nah, it's not your feeling, they really are faster than you. In fighting games you often see people who are way better than you at everything, it's like a martial art really, if you've fought a thousand duels you will already have seen everything so when a beginner tries to do something you already are 3 steps ahead and hitting him before he even really realized what he was doing himself. Only obtaining more experience slowly and steadily fixes this. Also if something is being punished either it's not safe or you tried to do something after it when you shoulda blocked. Don't hesitate to double check, maybe you just had the wrong impression of a move.
Ok question, what would it be considered if you are the opposite of a scrub? Where you tend to take any opportunity to put yourself down and not be able to recognize your successes as "successes?" I have a very hard time admitting that I am learning stuff, even when I probably am, and I just don't really know *how* to look out for that.
Many thanks for this video, Sajam. I've been discouraged from wanting to ask simple questions about fighting game mechanics (combos/links/basic knowledge, especially in Street Fighter or KoF) for a while now, usually from fear of being lambasted for playing fighting games but not knowing about key mechanics because I never really approached fighting games the same way most others have (I've learnt everything I know by myself, never in an environment playing with other fighting game enthusiasts/a lot of fighting game terms or mechanics I find confusing). Hopefully now I can at least get the missing pieces I need to be a better player.
See, you understood it at first. Scrubs are to be slain and not heard, this is rule number one of real life. If you want to talk, make absolutely sure your losses can never be traced back to you.
As someone who has been bad at fighting games for a while, my problem is i feel like im going in circles with the questions im getting to. I'll get a Situation that idk about, i'll ask, i get an answer, i try to implement, it doesn't work, i go back, i get the same answer, i try again, it doesn't work. etc. etc. I feel like if i understood how the approach worked for other people, i would be able to learn more, but i don't understand how the method that most people use to improve work. I think that makes me a scrub, because i just don't know what to do and i can't learn it.
You wanna be more specific about how it fails in this situation. Just "doesn't work" is not specific enough. Maybe the solution you were offered is only effective if implemented unpredictably, and has ways of being countered. Like for example, people will tell you to dp vs a meaty, but you can do a meaty safejump which both hits you if you try to attack or lets them block if you try to DP, so while the advice you were given is correct, you still will be in a bad situation.
I kept it deliberatly vague because it's not one specific question but a pattern. "doesn't work" in this case e.g. if you tell me to DP a Meaty, and i try to DP the Meaty, and of the few times where i will actually get a DP out, 10% of the time i Whiff, 90% of the time i still get hit. I play Mostly Melee, so idk exactly the example, but you get the point. I am getting suggested solutions, and i try to implement them, but a) the solutions don't work in my experience and b) i don't understand how to practice the execution for it so i can consistently get the correct solution out.
@@parttimenoob9886 Right so what you wanna understand is that every option has a next level counter to it, so you wanna differentiate between your option failing because you got read like a book and your foe did something that beats your option (which would lose to a different one, which is what you should have done in that situation) and you just being unable to properly execute something. Being able to tell when you chose wrong and when you chose right but just failed to input things right goes a long way. As for practicing it, you just gotta sit in training mode and keep repeating it for hours on end until it sticks, it's not complicated stuff, it just takes a lot of time.
6:13 this is sad because i've noticed this as a remedy or at least decidedly not "scrubby" thing to do, and i've had my few moments where i did it successfully. "oh he called that out" "oh wow that was technical" etc. but only a few times...I am a scrub...i am definitely a scrub. idk why it's so hard to just compliment the other guy. does anyone have any advice on cutting this shit out? i left my discord group because i kept being "scrubby" constantly and understood that nobody wants to play with that. complaining about matchups, being passive aggressive about the game, saying and thinking things that i've heard out of ltg's mouth, "there's nothing i can do". it's all emotions and takes hold of me hard and it's not so easy to step back from in the moment. the only ideas i have are stopping right there, or trying meditation ideas to catch the bad mindset. what i've been thinking lately is that i have an unhealthy/unproductive response to frustration. i have a really bad mindset and i have a lot to fix but i really don't want to be that guy. not at all, man.
