You meant well. Please forgive yourself as you were just trying to be the best Momma you could be. Who knows, maybe this was perfect for your children's path. 💞
This is the most heartbreaking episode I’ve watched/listened to since the Tom Phillips interview. My heart truly goes out to all of you experiencing this type of pain.
I remember feeling Guilt like this when I served. I went out Worthy but still felt immense guilt over just even my thoughts. I think it's important to remember that all missionaries are trained to have this guilt as a motivation no tool. A tool the leaders use to manipulate.
My goodness, Sean and Crystal are amazing human beings. Courageous and sincere, these tow have a lot of LIGHT to shine on so many people suffering because of religion, in their case, the LDS church. Wow, I am very inspired, thank you all!
Everyone should take their ‘Miracle of Forgiveness’ books, pile them up on Spencer Kimball’s grave and set them ablaze. That is the most soul destroying book I’ve ever read. The title of the book is a mockery.....even the LDS psychologist I went to said that it was required reading for the young men in his day, and that when they got done reading it they thought they were all going to hell! That book was more about condemning you than it was about forgiveness!
Derek 84 .......I didn't mean it 'literally'.....I was venting my frustrations. The advice in that book is VERY harmful! And NOT Biblical! It makes one feel all is lost.....hopeless.....THAT'S why I said the title of the book is a mockery.....because it makes it sound like you will find the blessing of a 'Miracle of Forgiveness' within its pages......but it is a very condemning book instead! From the quotes he used, this was when I got my witness that Brigham Young and Spencer Kimball are false prophets. The Jesus that I believe in died for ALL sins.....as in ALL! The Jesus that Spencer and his ilk believe in, died only for 'some' sins......not a very powerful and only partially loving Jesus. Jesus is 'limited' in Mormonisn. I don't believe in a limited Jesus. There are scriptures on forgiveness in the Bible that LDS have twisted and contorted into having a hopelessness to them. It is by design. They then set themselves up to have you believe that only through them, they have the answer. This is very irresponsible and cult-like. It's screwing with people's minds/lives. Those that can't understand or see this, are still drinking the kool-aid. I used to be an apologist too. I used to make all sorts of excuses to excuse the stupidity of these false and flawed beliefs. As I look back on it, I can't believe how blind I was. Those beliefs are dangerous! That's why teen suicides are the highest among the LDS! Antidepressant use is highest among LDS too. Take a closer look at why these false beliefs are destroying people's psyche's and lives. You will never see it until you put your kool-aid down though.
@@gracebe235 I was given that book as an unmarried pregnant 18 year old trying to go through the repentance process, going to church without my family who were supportive but were inactive at the time, and being shunned by many ward members. I was terrified that I was going to die giving birth and go to hell and be separated from my family and God forever. It was many years before I came to know the true Jesus and the true Gospel of Salvation by God's Grace through faith in the Finished works of Jesus Christ. I do have to say though that my bishop was very kind to me and never made feel worse than I already did. There are a lot of good people trapped in a terrible lie.
Hello, I was verry offended buy something that Sean did to Crystal in this interview. I really enjoyed hearing this heart wrenching story, how Sean grappled with his feeling of shame and self respect as he was being manipulated buy those around him to conform to this way of life in his youth. But what really upset me is how Sean then decided to start to talk about Crystals abuse as a child without even asking her if it's ok to air this part of her life. It upset me because Crystal immediately tensed up as he began to say that she had been abused as a child and she said immediately that she isn't comfortable talking about this, but Sean literally talked over her while she was saying that she didn't want to talk about it. She was respectfull enough not to interupt him while he went on. I could tell this was a painful subject for her. Just because he's ok with telling everyone his story doesn't mean she wants her abuse told to the world. I feel like John should have been more understanding of this and not allowed this to go on in the interview without at least interupting him to see if she's ok with this being spoken of. I think we should mindfull of what people are going through and if they say they aren't comfortable talking about it then don't make them go though it again.
So many us were hurt by the shaming and guilt that the LDS church places in young people before they are old enough to think rationally on their own. The LDS Cultural expectations of youth are harmful and damage many people. I applaud both Crystal and Sean for being so honest and exposing how the LDS church caused them both unnecessary and damaging shaming and guilt. I feel your pain.
I went unworthy too - soooo painful.... I didnt know how to repent, i didnt really read scriptures before mission. Eventually i confessed. But i was always exhausted
I visited temple square after the tornado event and there was some considerable damage. What is Sean talking about how the temple area was saved. When I saw the damage I thought it was a sign to reevaluate the church.
He states that it was what the news reported. I remember hearing/ reading the same version of the news- that it was headed for the temple and changed direction. A 💫miracle💥😏
Interesting the reasons that they went on missions. It causes me to reflect on my reasons. If I am totally honest, the reason I went on a mission is completely clear. I had no faith or real testimony. The real reason that I went was that as a freshman at BYU (many years ago), I found that girls would not date you if you were not an RM. So -- it was exclusively to elevate my status at BYU as a datable, desirable young man to girls (in hopes of dating) that I went on a mission. Sheesh!
I wish I could tell Crystal that when I went on a mission, I didn't know the church teachings either Lol. It was all a surprise. Glad I'm not the only one. Plus I never had a personal testimony, other than being told all my life it was the only true church...brainwashing :)
Isn’t it funny how members hand kids money and tell them its for their mission, sticking this sense of obligation over the kid. I seen it done to 10 year olds and younger, where some member will do that. Such an environment of mind tweekage.
Been a member for over 50yrs and it’s been the best ting in my life. It’s helped me become a better Husband, Father and priesthood holder. So many get distracted by the mocking world(or those in the large and spacious building) getting distracted by the superfluous half-truths. I’ve raised my kids in the gospel, and their well rounded contributing members of society. For those who’ve chosen to be distracted by the superfluous, what now? Has your choice brought you closer to your family? If not that might be your first red flag, to whose behind these diversions. Remember what Lehi warned, as many as heeded those in the large and spacious building had fallen away. Listening to satans minions and these detractors will cause you to fall from your faith, because many take for granted the gift of a testimony given them through the gift of God’s Holy Spirit. Millions of members have lived out their lives faithful because they were built on the foundation talked about in Hel5:12 12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall. So to all those who have fallen from the faith, where are your beliefs now? Is it Trinity now? Is it the Book of Mormon teaches bad stuff? Is it families aren’t eternal? Is it that only members of their specific church are saved? Is it that baptism isn’t important now? Is it those who didn’t get baptized while on the earth are lost? Is it we can’t help our ancestors? Is it marriage ends at death? Is it that all the truth to be had about God is only in the Bible? Is it now that people are evil in the LDS faith? Is it that the church taught you to do evil things? Is it that there’s no need for authority from God? Is it that there is now no need for a Prophet? I’m eternally grateful for the gift of a testimony that I received from the Holy Ghost. I’m assuming that you believe the Bible? Well this is what Paul said about how much truth we know- 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. God is the custodian of ALL truth. On these internet sights people argue like they have some superior knowledge or facts about history and truth, when in fact as Paul says we know very little. For all believing Christians, the time for the Saviors return is soon, look at the signs, now more than ever is a great time to take Gamaliel’s council in Acts5:38-39
😂 sorry to laugh, but every narcissistic religious person believes that Christ’s return will almost certainly be coming very very soon, for the last 2000 years. Ummm, every other brainwashed believer has been wrong. So statistics and realty says otherwise.
Reasonable BB I can agree that some aspects of religion really give you purpose even if it’s founded in falsehood. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s true. But I know without a doubt that it’s so far from truth. It is so obviously false I don’t see how anyone could be converted with knowing all the truth about it. But the missionaries don’t teach truth, they’re sales people trying to get your money. They don’t realize it, it’s not on them. It’s on the founders of the church. Being indoctrinated from a young age and seeing your parents and countless families make it the foundation of their lives is what gets people. What is there better to sell than something that is found to be true by feelings and confirmation bias. These were the thoughts of Joseph Smith and his accomplices. And somehow it took. There were so many other people trying to form new religions at the time and place and somehow this was the one that stuck? It’s hard for me to believe it. Just shows you how bad people need to believe in something when they have no hope or feel without a purpose. Religion gives you both and much more. Basically whatever you want to think it gives you. The power of feelings. It’s one of the most interesting psychological tricks humans play on themselves. I wonder if other intelligent beings on other planets create gods and religions like humans do. I would imagine so. To explain why crazy things happen. To think that weather and storms were caused by gods. Seems logical without the facts. Same with disease and plagues. Same with earthquakes. And so on and so on. And now with real knowledge there is no place for these gods so the only ones left are the unfalsifiable ones. You can’t prove something doesn’t exist somewhere unknown that doesn’t exist. But believing in something that gives you hope and purpose whether or not it exists still gives you those things. And is born religion and gods. It’s not trivial, thinking that something all powerful and loving (although it doesn’t exist) might give you psychological and physical drive and comfort. And also the idea that you have an all powerful god on your side can be destructive and cause endless violence. And humanity goes on with it for now. Just blows me away.
Are there children that are not raised in the gospel who are well-adjusted contributing members of society? Are there children raised in the gospel who are not well-adjusted members of society?
Ryan Johnson yes and yes. Just as there are non believers. I don’t doubt the power of faith. It can be good or destructive. But in all cases it’s delusional. I also think it’s more addictive than any drug known to man. And waking up to reality can literally destroy your family, friendships, basically your entire world...I can see why so many people that become rational in any faith could stay for that reason. I bet the average timeframe for a well connected family to leave the LDS would take years of planning and ultimate courage. But if you’re happy and it “Faith” works for you, that’s great I guess. Using quotes from fictional books is probably the most unconvincing thing you could do btw... you do know there are millions of people that have the same if not more conviction for their chosen religion right? And they are all contradicting. Explain that. I expect you’ll say they have some truth but not the full truth of the LDS... if they only used confirmation bias they’d change their faith as many do. But you literally have billions of faithful people with thousands of different sects all claiming that they know best. It’s so obvious that all religion is false.
I don't know what it means to "submit to the process," and maybe more often than not people do just sort of acquiesce to the idea that they do have a testimony even though they really do not, but that was never the case for me. I could never convince myself that the way to gain a testimony was simply to keep bearing one. To me that was paramount to standing up in church and lying. Because I did not "know," and I knew that, if nothing else, I refused to stand up and say that I did. I just couldn't do it. But not knowing that "the church is true" is not the same as knowing that it is not and so I simply resigned myself to the fact that I did not know and might not ever know. I just don't know why I never considered the possibility that not getting "the right answer" could mean that the church was not true... but, then again, maybe I actually do know why... the LDS church does a very good job of making you feel "unworthy" if you pray yet don't receive a confirmation of it's truth claims; and it doesn't matter how well you are "living the gospel," there "must be something" that you simply are not owning up to, even when there is nothing. They strip you of any sense of self-worth that isn't reliant upon "living the gospel." That can put you into the position of trying to justify all kinds of things, including how you deal with things like rape in a world where you are taught to believe that it is better to come home in a body bag than as a victim of rape. I bet the comments about "worthiness" really hit home with a lot of ex-Mormons (and, probably, members alike, though they might not admit it).
Such a shame nobody ever told u that u cld just borrow the same testimony everyone borrows... Not sure who owns the original but we all know how it goes... I know the church is true, I know Joseph Smith is a prophet, I know through a whole bunch weird ceremonies, and secret handshakes and symbols, and a lot of tithing I can be with my family forever...but if u miss your payments you can lose ur vip pass to the penthouse and be forced to parking lot pimp it while the rest of my family is in there getting jiggy with it without me there so don't screw this up and don't screw with our money..... Obviously I am kidding... We all know the brain washed chant. I know this, I know that, I know this other thing, and I know that this is what I have learned I am supposed to repeat over and over again until it's true even though I don't really know any of those things but I want to believe they are true. Otherwise what the hell have I been doing here all these years
Love the interviews and I appreciate your role in my faith journey. It is really uncomfortable to listen to you interject where you want others to go with their story. It also makes it sound contrived and manipulated even though I don’t think that is what you are trying to do. Thanks for all you are doing.
She definitely tried to sabotage your mission!... If she was at your farewell it was then she realized she didn't want u to go and she knew enough about the church to know that that if he can get you to sleep with her that would make you unworthy to go she knew she was going to go tell your Bishop before you finished hell before she showed up at your house she knew she was going to tell your Bishop... It was a setup from the gate.. doesn't make her evil it just makes her a kid who thought she was going to lose the boy she was in love with and had an overwhelming need not to feel the pain of u leaving her for a church she was not nearly as invested in as u.. She may have even been spiteful that u dumped her for the church so maybe there was some malice to the mission to get u into bed again.... must have felt good be so desired but so harmful the church would put so much shame and guilt on you.. you were just a teenager being a teenager
What is it with people who QUIT...I find myself wondering who they really are, whether they be LDS, Protestant, Baptist, holy roller or catholic...they find themselves in a world that they have chosen, (unless they were taught as children and raised in a certain religion)..then come of AGE and decide that this is too hard or not of my liking or someone judged them according to their way of belief...I have found that all churches proclaim Jesus Christ is their head, but you folks forget what Christ taught and that was to love thy neighbor as thy self...he didn't teach 'lose your faith in something and then go out and condemn those whom you have left" where does he condemn others? The only place I have found in the gospels is with those who finally had him nailed to the cross. Are you saying that this church or any church which someone has left is trying to nail Christ to the CROSS AGAIN? There is a story about a woman who went to her church leader and asked for her membership in his church to be removed because of and I quote "children are too loud during services, women are always complaining about their husbands, teenagers are running around without proper Adult guidance and your sermons are to strick for me. The leader of the church asked her if she would do one thing before he signed her membership release. She agreed...he told her to take the plastic spoon he had in his drawer and to go to the water fountain and fill the spoon with water, then as carefully and quietly as she could walk around the building twice without spilling the water in the spoon...she agreed. The women did as she was asked and very proudly returned with the water still in the spoon handing it to the church director. She then asked for her release but not before asking why he had asked her to do the task...His response was without a doubt the greatest lesson I have ever learned, he said:" if you will stop focusing all your attention on others and focus on what YOU NEED TO BE DOING you will find life and the gift of Christ more fulfilling than all the complaining and bitterness toward others you have stored up in your mind." The moral of this story is this... YOU need to focus on YOU, and forget the bitter hatred that has infested your life. This site and all others that use YOU to Uplift THEIR objective of finding fault with those who are given the RIGHT to chose what they believe is nothing more than the WOLVES in SHEEP clothing spoken of in the GOSPELS...You will find that all the bitterness you have for leaving the LDS religion or any religion and then turning to violate it... is not what GOD or his SON ever taught. Finding fault is not of God, it is of the DEVIL himself and you find that he is a taskmaster without equal. Focus on YOU and forget the bitterness, let it go before it lands you in a place where God himself does not dwell. Finally, I know members of the LDS faith and as far as I can see they believe in Jesus Christ..we all are given the freedom to choose whom or what we believe, but to condemn others for what they believe or what they teach is not of Christ...HE taught to forgive and to forget and to follow him, he never forced himself upon anyone and he did not teach bitterness and hatred. nor did he ever say "go and condemn those whom I love and who are trying to follow me with whatever knowledge they have." QUITTERS don't follow CHRIST.
Do you say that to all sexual abuse survivors or just the ones who were abused in a religious context? Silencing people who are trying to speak up about abuse is evil in itself. You go ahead and keep passing out judgement on the victims while giving the perpetrator a pass if it makes you feel super special and holy. Not everyone is into that sort of thing, though. I'm sure Jesus wasn't.
