This likely the most Teal'c has said in one go anywhere in the series and that shows how important and heart-felt the subject is for him. Great writing, great acting. Great show.
That is why Teal'C is a hero.. He does not pretend he is good, or can ever save himself. He fights so that no one ever has to act like him, or suffer because of people like him.
@@adora721lux8 He is good because he fights not for himself, but for others. He is good because he continues to fight knowing he will never find personal retribution. But to do anything else but to fight for justice and helping others is totally unthinkable and would (for him) invalidate his reason for living.
Ironically, his agent had to lie to him so he would consider the role. Chris did some VO work on a flop game earlier in his career and held the opinion that video games were where acting careers go to die. He mentioned the game in SG1... Def Jam Vendetta. But after he got tricked into looking at the script for God of War, he mistook it for a movie on account of the damned good writing.
One of the most powerful and true statements you must embrace to move past huge regrets. It’s broken. You can’t fix it. You can’t undo the damage. You can only move forward.
What makes this statement all the more powerful is the fact that, as of the last episode in the TV series, Teal'c had just spent an entire human lifetime stuck in a time loop. 60+ years of sitting on a starship, doing nothing but waiting for Carter to fix the problem. And still, his past continues to haunt his mind. He hasn't forgotten. He will never forget. Teal'c speaks from experience here. 60 years, or 600, or 6000, there are some things that just won't ever leave you.
submariner1984 in the events of Unending, Teal’c along with the rest of SG1 were stuck in a time dialation field where they spent the rest of their lives..well the ones with a normal lifespan. Teal’c was able to come back to stop that event from happening but he remained the same age
Dunno about speech but for me, words of experience, common sense and serious wisdom. Shit, alot of truth bombs in there as well. No sugarcoating No nice words No nonsense Just raw, brutal and honest truth. Goddamn.
Finally, someone gets it. I'm so tired of these people that think they can make up for the truly horrible things they have done. Teal'C understands that he can never make up for the atrocities that he committed, and strives to help as many as he can, knowing that he will never have a clean slate.
There was an episode early in the series, "Cor'ai" I think was how it was spelled. Teal'c was put in a kangaroo court for a murder while he was First Prime. He offered no defense, pleas, nothing because he wanted to be punished for his actions and give closure for the family. Sixty years later and he has barely changed.
Maybe even the MCU writers understand it. Consider Natasha, who led a life of assassination before Clint offered her a different path. From then on she had 'Red on her ledger.' Debts she felt she owed for those whose family, friends, and loved ones she had killed. Perhaps if she had Te'alc sit down and give her this wake-up call, she might have been less wanting to sacrifice herself.
Teal'c revealed the depth of the horrors he had done and the guilt he lives with everyday. The first time I seen this, it was downright shocking. It was a moment no one expected. Only he understood the depth of the torment the other was going thru - being used by a 'false religion' knowing what you done. This moment was one of the biggest scenes in SG-1.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves. We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose. Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better. True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
@@AeneasGemini You have a point, but remember that Teal'c realized this before he stopped being First Prime. Even after realizing the evil and horrors of what he was doing he stayed as First Prime and fought to suppress it. Granted he tried to do good where he could, helping out in secret, however he still on balance did far more horrible things than good things back then. Tobin isn't struggling with doing evil because he didn't know better, he is struggling with doing evil despite knowing better and that is what Teal'c is addressing. Tobin knew deep down he was committing horrible atrocities and causing harm, but he couldn't find a way out. Teal'c had that same experience. It is true that they are not true monsters, but the fact is they are not feeling guilty for causing harm unwittingly, they are feeling guilty for knowing exactly how monstrous they were and yet still doing it.
More than that, it shows a side of him that's been around for ten years, yet we never saw. He's been living with the guilt for all the horrible things he's done, and now, ten years later, he finally expresses what he's been carrying alone all this time: "You will never forgive yourself. Accept it."
we did see at least a glimpse of thi in this one episode where some townfolks hold a trial against him for killing a father who was a cripple.... don´t remember the season or episode number though.... there he was willing to let them kill him for his actions, even though that one kill saved a couple of other lives. the people there hide when others come to their planed but that cripple was slow so they would be found, that´s why teal´c chose him for a kill he was ordered to do by apophis
This really hits hard. "You will never forgive yourself. Accept it. You will never find personal retribution". And that after he almost had a normal life on earth
the best, or worst, part is how late this happens. You never had the idea that Teal'c feels this way. And here, right before the show ends, he drops this line that changes everything.
Even split between this being terrible writing or brilliant writing that showcases how immature jaffa morality really is. Me, I tend towards terrible writing. As a rule, the entertainment sector balks at morals, faith, codes of conduct of any kind, and won't understand what forgiveness means until it's far too late.
@OriginalTharios See, here's the thing. You're right that reality doesn't care what anyone thinks. So why should I care about a system of morals that are, at best, half-truths? Isn't it better to focus on studying the morals that are genuine? To focus on that reality that doesn't care what other people choose to believe?
It isn't stupid. I have always felt inspired by Data and Spock from the Star Trek franchise. "Evolve and better yourself." Hell, I'll even go so far as to say that I live by the actions of Capt. Kirk interpreted by Dr. McCoy. Kirk: My God, Bones. What have I done? Bones: What you had to do. What you always do; Turn death into a fighting chance to live. Lived by those words and I consider SG-1 to be my moral compass when it comes to making scientific decisions.
This scene was unique in the series though. This is a rare instance of Teal'c being able to help someone who is just starting down a road that he himself is years ahead in travelling and it gives you insight into how he sees himself and his life's work. One of his best moments of the series (movie is part of the series)
Teal'c is a pretty great character. He always give either just he right touch of gravity or comic relief into just the right situation. Always great to think of the guy who can look right into your heart can laugh himself silly making a joke about nose drips. ;)
DaveRossi2 i always found this scene to give the episode he is on trail more weight. Shows why he just gave in and let it happen and told the others to bugger off and not help him escape.
kettch777 and he BELIEVED in what he was doing. That’s the key difference. Teal’c tried his best to use his influence to make awful things less awful. Tomin was a devoted fanatic, who justified his actions, as the will of his gods. Gods, he believed in. Unlike Teal’c.
His voice is just so deep, ancient, and wise. Right towards the end I feel almost like I'm hearing Gandalf saying "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."
This is also why I think Jack and Teal'c were so close in the first place. Jack was in Black Ops so it meant he did "damn distasteful things" so he understood what Teal'c has done. That is why he defended him. Also why he was most likely to make bad choices at times but Daniel tried to preserve their morality. I love how everyone balances each other. Also makes it sadder when he said, "I have nowhere to go."
I don't think anything Jack did can compare to what Teal'c did. Sure on the black ops missions Jack more than likely did some pretty awful things, but I don't think he ever enslaved or killed people in the name of a false god.
One thing I find quite intersting about this is that the whole speech is not out of character for Teal'c. I've seen so many other types of fiction that has been going on for a while where a character suddenly has motivations or goals that come out off nowhere. But when we hear this speech, nothing in it is surprising to the viewer. Teal'c has always put everyone elses needs above himself and made it clear that he is not doing it for forgiveness. And after defeating the Goa'uld, he really didn't have a stake in fighting the Ori besides protecting his people which he could've done on his own turf. Yet he returned to SGC to fight them because of what he says here. And even if you are surprised that Teal'c that has never fogiven himself for what he did, watching the series again shows that yes, it's there, clear as a day.
That is some brutally blunt honest dialogue. This one scene shows what made this series so great. Amazing story, a bit of humor and some damn excellent writing and acting.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves. We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose. Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better. True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
And to think Teal'c has been feeling this way ever since he met SG-1 and took a chance, this is the first time he's articulating it, and it's not to any of the core SG-1 members. Is Teal'c Tomin's Bra'tac?
I think we always knew this is how Teal'c feels about his crimes. The first season has an episode where he is placed on trial when SG-1 visits a planet that Apophis once subjugated. This speech tracks closely with the themes of that episode. He's articulated these feelings to O'Neil before.
Now that he's done GoW, I realize just how much Teal'q is in Kratos. This is where C Judge got his inspiriation for Kratos I think because I can see Kratos saying this to Thor and to Freya.
The funny thing for me is that when I first saw this scene, it never even occurred to me that Teal'c would have some useful advice for Tomin here. He'd been part of SG-1 for so long and the Goal'uld were basically such a distant memory that to me, Teal'c was just one of the good guys, not a former enemy soldier who'd finally had enough and switched sides. Then this conversation started, and I was like, "holy shit, how did I not remember that Teal'c has been through exactly this?!"
@@xaracen7207 That is because media companies tend towards appealing to the goa'uld side of humanity instead of its true heart of humble strength and goodness.
Its a truly brilliant scene. Teal'c has a way of offering people wisdom when they need it most. But this is the first time Teal'c is able to help somebody about to start down the path he did way back in season 1. We see this side of Teal'c throughout the entire series. When he is placed on trial for murder, he was willing to die so that justice could be served. And he saved those who would put him to death. This is what drives him, this is what he fights for. And now, he gets to to start someone else on the same path he took. But its not a path to redemption. The only thing left to do for Teal'c and Tomin, is to save as many people as they can.
This is so powerful. If we heard Teal'c say this in an early season, we would probably dismiss it. But after 10 seasons and the decades stuck in the time loop, Teal'c still feels this way. It's a truth that has been a foundational part of his character all along. He never acted out of personal redemption.
Teal'c is very wrong about one thing: they both should forgive themselves. We've seen in real life that it's surprisingly easy to indoctrinate people into murder, and even genocide (especially if you start young). Aside from the worst of the worst (which are rare) most people are, in a very real way, robbed of the ability to choose. Those lucky enough to be deprogrammed should absolutely forgive themselves, they obviously have a responsibility to do better, but they were nonetheless not fully to blame for their actions. Teal'c and Tomin were raised from birth to be fanatics, they deserve forgiveness and understanding, although they do have an obligation to do better. True monsters never even feel guilty for what they do.
@@ronrolfsen3977 nothing I have done since turning from the goauld can make up for the atrocities I once committed on their name. Change goauld to isis, crypts, kkk.... communist regimes....the list is endless. We are all part of something that has done something terrible and truly unforgivable to someone. And right now I'm not taking about social justice, but just general stuff. For example, We can say "I robbed that liqueur store the once and the cashier recovered from the bullet wound". But then you find out the clerk is paralysed in the arm because of muscle nerve damage. Make it better by fighting for the weak. Tookie for example, killed quite a few people while he was in his gang. He spent 12 years on death row writing books to stop gang and hood culture. He was fighting for others and lived with the guilt of his crimes til his last breath.
Stargate was a show that could walk the line of all emotions. Just when you think the show is action mixed with humor the show will drop deep moments like this on you. Babylon 5 and Deep space 9 also made me feel this way
Hands down one of the best scene in the series. I remember watching this movie as a kid just thinking "Damn, that was a really good piece of dialogue."
And the day when Christopher lent his voice to the Ghost of Sparta... was the day I looked at the screen and went. "You have cast this role wisely." Seriously, that was f--king great.
The most profound speech Teal’C ever gave and it was a perfect time impart wisdom for another starting down the path he walked for years. He saw a kindred soul.
Great writing, great delivery. Absolutely the best "speech" in the whole series, IMHO, and it was a great series. So good. So good. Absolutely brilliant.
Probably the most profound idea I ever heard expressed on the show and casts all of Teal'c's time on the show in a new light. When did he realize that redemption/forgiveness was impossible?
@@JoshSweetvale except he didn't. The son of the man he killed was still set to carry out the verdict he originally intended. Until Teal'c jumped in front of a staff blast then put himself back on the execution stand. The worst thing is, he is still right: no amount of good can *undo* previous wrongs of the caliber those two committed. But it can, hopefully, prevent future ones.
I can honestly say my worldview of Andromeda has lessened when I learned Sorbo was a supporter of the current US Administration, but I still like that show, since it happened 20 years before 2016!
Awesome - what's also amazing and heartbreaking is how lots of this can be whittled down to the individual in ordinary life. How we could've done more, more of the right thing, not stood on the sidelines so much, helped out other people, the regret of having to live with poor life choices, and so on. Just great writing
This is why I am a firm believer that the only ones who can best help veterans ARE veterans. A civilian has absolutely no idea what it is like and they will never fully understand, although they may try. It took a retired Sailor of the Vietnam era to finally quiet the sounds of battle in my head. I will always be haunted by my time in Iraq, but at least I know now that my past does not define me and I can find some semblance of peace.
This is an exchange that Teal’c can never have with his friends and teammate only someone like Tomin who went through the same situation and bears the same sins can he share the guilt and try to guide him on how to endure the personal torments that it brings.
I believe that, if Teal'c and O'Neill ever had this type of discussion, O'Neill would understand. Carter and Jackson.....maybe not. O'Neill's been "in the fire" enough to relate to Teal'c on this; if only in certain ways. O'Neill deals with it mostly through humor; Teal'c deals with it through personal introspection. That's one reason why he could talk to Tobin like this. Teal'c once told Jackson that, based on Jackson's experiences, Teal'c was surprised Jackson got as much sleep as he does. That wasn't a criticism of Jackson; it was Teal's way of letting Jackson know that Teal'c has dealt with a lot of the same trials and personal tribulations Jackson has. At any rate, Teal'c gave Tobin a way through his pain. Whether he chooses to follow it, or not.... is ultimately up to him.
In many ways I feel like this was a conversation Teal'c wanted to have with Daniel but never could bring himself to. It's great scenes like this that show how good a character show Stargate actually was
Teal'c can't have this conversation with Daniel, but in a way he already had it as well (Changeling). Teal'c admires Daniel as one of the purest good people Teal'c has ever known, this was already Teal'c's view before Daniel's ascension but post-ascension it is clear Teal'c's feelings about Daniel goes beyond just respect and into reverence for someone being able to be this way. I don't think he wants to sully Daniel or his relationship with Daniel with this talk, and he also probably feel that Daniel might even know Teal'c better than Teal'c knows himself, remember the experiences of Changeling and how he had Daniel reach him in a time no one else ever could and get him out of it. Even if Daniel doesn't have all his ascended memories, he does have a lot of them and Teal'c knows this. Teal'c could however have this conversation with O'niell, he knows that O'niell would understand, in fact he knows O'niell understands it so well that neither of them need to have the conversation, it is superfluous as they both totally understand the point and that the each have that understanding. O'niell lived this himself during his black ops days and more importantly with the death of Charlie. We also see that Teal'c had this talk with Bra'tac long ago before Teal'c rebelled against Apophis, but that time Bra'tac was the one imparting this wisdom to Teal'c. Bra'tac also committed a long list of atrocities in service to Apophis, and when Teal'c started down that path Bra'tac helped him channel the self-loathing, shame and hatred into something good. Tobin needed the talk because he didn't understand yet.
Teal'c was always my favorite character. Because he's had a tumultuous journey that his built up his character in a way none of the others have. This scene just shows the depth of that struggle and the wisdom gained.
This moment right here is why Christopher Judge will always be Kratos to me. No matter if they make a live action God of War movie, he will always be Kratos.
You can die old in your bed, or jump into a fight and save someone possibly getting killed in the process. But death is inevitable. Always best to die saving someone else
Teal'c is 150 years old at this point. He spent a hundred years of his life serving the Goa'uld, a unknown amount of decades as first prime to Apophis, ten with the SGC making amends and fifty in the time dialation field. He's actually as old as Bratac by now but Tritonin may have extended both their lifespans.
This actually brings up a good philosophical question: When a bad guy who has realized he's been doing evil things and sees them for what they are and turns to the side of good how do they live with themselves after that? How do they deal with the guilt and the sadness of knowing they've caused such harm for no good purpose? It certainly makes you think.
Thank you, RU-vid Algorithm for this 12 year old gem! LOL I've gotta wonder though... where did the conversation go from there? Teal'C just gonna sit there and eat his meal after droping that bomb on the dude? Neither one seems like small-talky. Gonna make the dude get up? He was comfy dammit!
It's so easy to forget that Teal'c spent the better part of a century treating the geneva convention like a checklist. Not because he was evil, but because he was afraid for those he loved, and placed their lives above countless others... as any father and husband would. His initial motivation was to get power to take revenge, but he borrowed power from someone else and found it was never his to choose how to wield. When he joined the Tauri, he didn't magically become a good person. But he is an example that if "All it takes for evil to triump is for good to do nothing", then "All it takes for evil to fail is for those undertaking it to repent".
Here it's like he's talking to S1 teal'c, someone who couldn't cope with the guilt and would let himself die at the hands of his victims as an act of penance.
I feel like this scene right here is what the writers of God of War were thinking about when writing Dad of Boy, and why they wanted Christopher Judge as their main character.
There are so many former adversaries turned hero in storytelling, but in my opinion this is what makes Teal’c one the most compelling. His moral bank account will forever be in the negative, and he will forever continue to make payments.
This is the most effective and legit sermon I have ever heard. And a lot less spit polish than the heavy majority of all those evangelist preachers out there.
teal is one of the most profound characters of my childhood, along with daniel jacksons worldview, and stories like boromir of gondor, fallen from grace but sacrifices everything to make it right
If anyone is suffering from extreme guilt over something they’ve done, this is a scene I always recommend. It’s not happy, but it is true. Once you own your mistake and accept the damage can not be undone, then you can try to heal and move on.
This reminds me of the end scene of "In the Pale Moonlight" on Deep Space Nine. The cold, hard reality of living with the past expressions of one's own barbarity and how one must try, even failingly, to balance the books as much as one can.
Everyone goes on about Teal'c's words, but Tomin's, "I sit here," hurts hard every time I hear it. The words of a man broken by his own guilt, unable to fathom how he could possibly go on, how he could possibly change what he has done, the utter defeat brought on by his own decisions. "I sit here," knowing he can do nothing, knowing he has failed in every way possible for a man, he does not seek redemption, he does not seek escape, he simply sits and waits for judgment.
@aquilascura I think when one realizes like Tomin and Teal'c have that he has been living a lie and serving a lie, there has to be a period of looking for a way to redeem oneself of that shameful past. It is a moment of losing everything you believed about yourself and the world you inhabited. Teal'c empathizes because he sees Tomin starting down a road Teal'c has already travelled.
Something I will remember, from T'ealc, not from personal experience I hope. This shows that you can go on, to have purpose in your life. Thanks for this upload, I remember this, quite good.
