Mike I'm using "Sally Beauty" end wrap paper. It's for hair curling. I know!! You can buy it on line, it's super cheap and one box will make hundreds of cartridges. It's very thin and has always been completely consumed. Great tip on the Elmers glue stick. Thanks again for your hard work and great info.
Hey Mike, Thanks to you I now shoot my BP revolver way more than my modern firearms. Love you videos! Anytime I have a question I always look to your videos for the answer and they never fail to deliver. Keep up the good work!
SOMETHING I always wanted was an 1860's type pistol. I also would love to do a Kentucky long gun. My dad was into black powder. I remember him making a kit derringer when I was a teen ager. I enjoyed firing it on the weekends with him. I got a Gander mountain black powder rifle to hunt with using the Pelladex preformed powder charges and doing that for a while. It extended my hunting season into December. Now that I am disabled, I hate cold temperatures.
Something I can tell you about a long gun from my own experience. The longer the barrel the larger the caliber you'll want. A small caliber barrel seems to foul badly, much faster than a large caliber barrel. There's nothing so fun as having a fun day shooting your rifle and breaking you rod because the barrel is fouled so bad it's difficult to load.
Greetings from Poland (old continent), I subscribed to your channel (now at 36yo), because I fulfilled my childhood dream of becoming a cowboy (black powder beginner) :) Those bottle shots near the end.... I WANT TO SHOOT LIKE THIS IN THE FUTURE, especially the 2liter bottle having her cap shot off clean!
awesome vide mike. such a fascinating hobby and i cant wait to start mine own. the flintlock you suggested is awesome and i cant wait til its in my collection and going to the range and one day on the hunt. cheers mike.
duelist1954 You have saved my ass with the advice you gave me on fixing my Remington 58..44cal. Stripped trigger spring screw. I used the advice you explained bought the easy out bits and I was not only able to extract the screw but I didn't have any damage to the threads on the screw or the frame so I carefully filed a little groove in the screw and reinstalled it! No problem! 1st time's a charm! Thanks again forever faithful subscriber. Brian Myers...
@@duelist1954 It's a one chance system but if you take your time it will work like a charm w/out marring the threads to heck too...lol Thanks again sir..
The heavy wallop of that 44 conical is clearly evident. Definitely would not want to be on the receiving end. Would likely take a horse down effectively too.
Mike: There's a bunch of Union officer reenactors at my club; they swear by hair curling paper (post below duly noted) that's also nitrated. Doesn't seem to leave any residue in the cylinders and is supposedly thinner than cig paper. The glue used is heavily watered down Elmers swiped on with a fine artist's brush.
That was a cool historical exercise! For just shooting at the range, loose ball and powder would be more efficient, taking in account all the time it takes to make them. These would seem ideal for a period hunter or backpacker though.
I have a Uberti 1860 army. The dam thing fell apart on me. First the front sight fell of so I made a new on from an AR-15 bolt stop and used electrical solder to fasten it on. Came out nice. Then the barrel wedge didn't hold the barrel on tight so I made a new on from a piece of hardware store bracket. then the cylinder stop broke. $30 for a new one. The ram catch fell apart along with the catch mount. Had to fix that. I got lucky because now the pistol is 100% tight, accurate, and dependable. I learned how to do all that from videos like this one.
I love this video! Wow! It always amazes me how you never get a stuck cap. I guess these paper cartridges prevent chain fire? Sadly I experienced that too often even after I lube the chambers.
Just curious, but what about using Lee liquid alox and tumble lubing the bullets prior to loading in the cartridge? I have never loaded paper cartridge yet, thanks for the video. I find this and paper patching both to be fascinating subjects. I think this had given me the excuse to go buy a black powder revolver!
Love your RU-vid video's. Keep up the good work. I have a Pietta .44 caliber cap & ball revolver. Plan to make paper cartridges as soon as I receive the Kit I ordered from "Guns of the west". Thanks for all you do. honor and respect.
I use very light gift wrapping paper saturated with potassium nitrate and punch a hole in the rear if each paper cartridge as I load it into the cylinder. Works great..but no matter what you do there will always be residue.
I don't know Mike. I've worked with wax before for bronze casting. Getting a little thread of it isn't really that hard. I'm sure you could even find a routine to make a big long string of it with consistent diameter.
I've been making my own out of natural rolling papers I am not sure what they are made out of probably hemp but the paper is brown and very thin but strong enough for me to really pack the powder down and it makes it feel like an actual bullet once it's made up I can drop it on the powder end and it will bounce off of the floor
Ive been experiencing with cigarette rolling papers and coffee filters too with laquercellulose spray too. I started using tea bag papers a Gorilla school glue stick and after 36 rounds of teabag papers cartridges using 28 grains of Goex fffg and I had a little bit of u burned paper in two chambers, so I am guessing that these tea bags are working better, well at least so far. Thank you for sharing, me and my wife love your videos.
As always another very informative video. The subject that would be very interesting from my point of view is the following. I have both an Enfield and Springfield in .577 cal, that used the "minnie" type projectile. For both of these rifles I have failed to achieve any type of accuracy at distances of 100 yards or greater. The bullets are all cast from pure lead and besides the ones produced by myself I have tried others. Any input would be appreciated.
Hi Mike. I bought one of those Johnston & Dow molds. I shot some today. I had to modify the top of my loading lever because the tips of the bullets will round down if you don't. Also, if you put a wonder wad in the cartridge, you can only get about 20gr of FFF black in the cartridge or the bullet, being so large, will not seat far enough.
I haven t tried it yet, I m going to use that light brown wrapping paper, brush it with 'black powder water' and make some test cartridges with that. Mainly I m wanting to test this with an 1859 Sharps.
Swingin' Sam and the circle gang? that's funny. I do think you're guilty of shooting an unarmed gang of steel discs. Plus you have way too much fun doing it!
I bought a kit for rolling cartridges for a .36 cal. pistol. I rolled up a bunch and took them to the range. I made my own paper by soaking coffee filters in a potassium water mixture and letting them dry. I have a couple problems with them. First I believe the load size of my kit is about 15 grain of fffg powder but I normally use 20 grains so the power level was way down. Also the paper I used burns well if I just light it but when fired it leaves a ring in the cylinder where the paper is two layers thick. It loads and fires fine but after shooting I have to use a pick to pull the paper rings from the cylinder. I guess my concentration of potassium nitrate when soaking the paper wasn't high enough or maybe the glue was to dense at that point. Before I load any more I'm going to extend the block to be able to lengthen the cartridge and use more powder. Otherwise I really like the paper cartridges. Loading is sooooo much faster.
have you thought about melting beeswax and just quick dipping the cartridge into the wax? it might not be perfect but it sounds like it would help on time consumption.
The 1869 was one of the iconic pistols, but the new model Remington was the king of c&b revolvers. I'm not sure I would've traded my dragoon. 60gr down to less than 30 in the army
One thing I’ve thought a lot about doing is making three piece ammunition, Basically the powder is kept like a cannons powder in a paper cartridge that’s just pushed inside, followed by the bullet, then the cap on the back. The reason for this is almost exclusively because it may allow you to more easily load the things if it’s not fitted right. I’ll probably never use it, but if I do I’ll probably use it in a blunderbuss or some shit.
Love your videos, Mike. A question about the snail capper: do you store your caps in the capper or do you put them back in the tin? I just bought a capper and wondered if leaving the caps in it would allow moisture to degrade them.
Historically the paper cartridge bullet was dipped in lube after the cartridge was assembled. Lube varied but the majority of cartridge makers used paraffin wax. The wax lube also helped retain the bullet to the paper in lieu of glue.
Just subscribed to your channel I’m just getting into black powder shooting in the uk when our range finally opens, just loaded up my first 12 44 paper cartridges today.
I bet these been glued back in the day with a gelatin (skins) based hot mix - once it cools of it sets in an instance. Agar agar also works, that the base to old school japanese wood glue. What ever is easier to get grocery shopping, pick up and try. It will work quicker and burn more easily - that why also used to this day in firework shell production. This glue can be also enhanced with saltpeter unless thinned with ethanol. Once the cartridge is finished, dip the bullet in hot liquid tallow and wax mix that is thinned with some spirit for quicker drying.
I fire all the old Colts, and by far! The 60 Army is the best performer (attachable breech stock doesn t really do anything). It s light, well balanced and powerful! I m working on 75 and 100yd targets. At 50yds, quite accurate and with good penetration/mass effect. 195 'Richmond' style w/27gFFFg BP.
Do you know how the paper cartridges were made during the civil war? Was each cartridge handmade one at time? Did they have a device or machine to mass produce the paper form?
Great video as always. My only gripe with the paper cartridge concept is how are they any more convenient if they leave un-burnt paper after shooting a cylinder's worth?
OK Mike, did you modify your loading lever rammer to keep the bullet tips from being rounded. My Pietta rounds the point. I notice, your gun did not. Did you modify it? Mark Hubbs said he was working on a video to modify the rammer to get results like yours.
No, because I'm using an Uberti 1860. Uberti plungers are made like the originals for conicals. If you have a Pietta gun you'll need to put an Uberti plunger on it.
That would get pretty messy in the cartridge former. I use a Tbsp of Flour 1/8 tsp of sugar and 1/8 tsp of Kno3 mixed to a paste in water... Combustible glue for the combustible paper.
Great shooting Mike. i'm afraid to say with my revolver I'm about as good as a blind bat with its radar switched off!! Well, perhaps a little better than that but not much. Like the outfit.
Good series Mike. I guess no one makes these cartridges. Seems like if someone would, I'm the end they would end up selling more of these pistols. Also, does the 1858 New Army Remmington replica need to be modified to accept these cartridges. Thanks for doing what you do.
Yes, Remington's need to be modified. Pietta's can't even accept the J&D conical, let alone a cartridge...the plunger itself is too long. Uberti is better but still needs work.
This is very cool, always thought about why didn't they just make paper cartridges instead of doing the whole muzzleloading thing and now I learned that they actually did start doing that so thank you for the history lesson. I just got a small question is I didn't see a primer on any of the paper bullets and I assume you have a way of loading the primers but I didn't see that in this video. I am interested to see how that works. if you have posted a video on the complete in and out of the gun you were using I would love to see it. Keep up the history.
If you look at 3:45 you see nipples at the back of the cilinder. This is where you put the percussion caps (primers) so they are not fully self-contained cartridges, you still have to manually place primers on all the nipples of the cilinder
@ Shane... In the American Revolutionary war, both sides used paper cartridges in their muskets. Leather boxes worn on the belt had wooden blocks inside with holes drilled in the boxes, a prepared paper cartridge in each hole. In the English Civil War (About 1640 A.D.) the soldiers wore a leather bandolier (in other words a strap) over their shoulder. Leather thongs were attached to the bandolier. From each thong hung a little wooden cylinder filled with a measured amount of powder. The wooden lid on each wooden cylinder was held with a leather thong attached to its cylinder so the little lids would not get lost. They did not use paper nor cloth wrapped cartridges in those days because paper or cloth was *very* expensive compared with the powder and ball. This is also why patched balls were not used in muskets during many of the early centuries (the cloth or paper was way too expensive). So they used a hunk of hemp (called tow) over the powder, then the ball, then another hunk of tow to hold the ball tight to the powder.
......The hunk of tow looked a little bit like the small wad of cotton that you pull out the top of a Bayer aspirin bottle, only the hunk was larger. You could use cotton, I suppose. I use tow in replicas of very old muzzle loaders, it can be bought in bundles online.
Great vid Mike. I have the Pietta 1858 Remington. Will those conicals work with that ok or would I need to mod the frame as well? Also, I powder coat my cast bullets. Doing that, would it preclude the need for lubing if I did the paper cartridges?
Hey Alan. A buddy now uses powder coated bullets in his black powder guns. He reports it made no difference to powder fouling, but likes it to stop leading of the rifling, and to keep his fingers off lead coz his latest blood tests showed excessive heavy metals. So yeah, a good idea regardless, but doesn't preclude the benefit of lubed bullets. Cheers and safe shooting, Gus
Look into the hair care section and get some hair curler paper, they aren't nitrated but burn completely with no more than 2 wraps. I have been making them for years.
They work very well, do you think there was any "glowing" embers attached to the debris left in the chamber ? Flash paper usually flashes off completely, but I think the treated coffee filter paper would just glow, if you light proper flash paper there is nothing at all remaining, it burns in a , well, "a flash".
I can get 30 gr. behind a J&D conical in my Pietta 1860, but that is max. For lube, I just use Alox, but I've dipped the bullets in bees wax and Crisco mixed. Pretty much all I shoot now is paper cartridges (tho I make them different than the traditional wrap with cap).
I am thinking about a load with a wad instead of the bullet. Push that into the camber and then the ball and then seat it. Perhaps not what they did back in the day but would be sorta speed load compared to loose powder.
A great idea for someone not wanting to or not able to machine the metal off the gun. In other words the cartridge would be a paper filled with a charge of powder. Maybe then the long conical would fit.
@@duelist1954 Thanks. I thought it also had something to do with preventing chain fires, even though I know those can occur from either end. I appreciate you getting back to me on this older video.
Fish Glue is the highest tack I've come across, less Convenient but more tack hot Hyde glue mixed thick. If I ever make my own paper carriages I'll give it a shot
Now I saw a black powder pistol that did not even look like a black powder pistol it did have that thing that swivels on the front and it can take a cylinder that also shoots 44 bullets something conversion I think it was that same name name I think as yours do you know what pistol it is I only got very little info
I wonder how magician flash paper would work for these. It would certainly completely combust, unless the adhesive interfered. It isn't that expensive and you don't have to go through the hassle of nitrating paper.
Dear Mike: I've been using some lightweight computer printer paper, the type that uses the tracks and has several layers for copies, I have almost a pallet full of cases of this obsolete paper the top layer works very well for the cartridge cases we are making, and the fertilizer I use is excellent for our purposes. There is of course the usual fly in the ointment. The solution strength right now is by guess only, and needs to be consistent in order to get repeatable results. What is the weight of the nitrate fertilizer per quart of water, or per gallon of water that gives maximum saturation of the solution used to treat the paper and give optimum results? Everyone says to soak the paper in the solution, but I haven't read any instructions about what the STRENGTH of the solution should be. I have been getting my nitrate crystals from Duda Diesel, so the nitrate itself is good and consistent, but I need help in getting a consistent strength in mixing the nitrate and water for a soaking solution, I use boiling water to dissolve the nitrate into solution, but how much should I use per quart or gallon for optimum burn? I have been using distilled water, but need advice on the weight of the fertilizer per volume of water. Can you advise me please? I hope all is well with you and yours. Don Denison
Dear Nike: I have been doing the same thing myself in trying to come up with the best solution. I will endeavor to come up with a weight/volumn/ temperature ratio that will describe a maximum concentration solution for soaking whatever paper we decide to use. When I have this task accomplished, I will share the information with you. Sorry to have bothered you with this question, but I was hoping that you had already worked this problem out. Next time I mix a solution, I'll write the ratios down, including the temperature, weight of the crystals, and the volume of water. Best Regards Don Denison Dp@@duelist1954
Mike, apparently the Arsenals and most contractors dipped the cartridges nose first to the paper in a tallow beeswax lube, 8 to 1 beeswax, this is according to Mark Hubbs in his loading video.
Interesting. I am reading that the whole reason to go with nitrating the filters is to prevent residue from remaining in the chambers, yet you said there were two holes with pretty good bits of debris. Do you think that it was another case of incorrect and/or over gluing that did it?
Seamus McBride modern glues are the reason. Most of them have acrylics in them, and they don’t burn well. I’m experimenting with older glues now, but everything has its drawbacks.
duelist1954 I just saw a vid from Manley himself, and he said that elementary school grade wheat paste is the way to go. I don't remember that stuff sticking to anything. That is, unless wheat has changed sometime in the last 50 years...
So instead of glue, why not keep some warm bees wax on hand? It would both lubricate and offer registry as well as being to resist moisture? I was a little surprised you didn't have to grease the changers in case of chain fire? Very nice grouping btw.
The Confederates usually carried a pair or more of revolvers on horseback. John Singleton Mosby said that Union Cavalry with drawn sabers were no threat at all and that his men on horseback practiced until they could land 6 shots consistently on a fence post at a gallop at ranges well beyond saber range. Many men could shoot that well from horseback with either hand. Judging by the heavy wallop of that 44 conical from Mike's Uberti 1860, no one could remain in the saddle after getting hit.
