The fact that you can summon Anaconda with any 2 effect monsters is so bloody dumb and just makes the card way too good. Would much rather have it specify something like Plant monsters or even just Dark monsters so at least not every deck could play it
@@sauravistheascended7161 Yeah, I’m not sure how Dzeef thinks Dragoon was the initial problem. Glad his eyes are open with the new Phoenix Enforcer card.
@@mrdude88 he probably thought dragoon was the problem not only because it can be summoned too easily but because it can win games on it's own...even the ocg has dragoon banned
No it isn't. Bring a glorified searcher isn't broken. A monster like Dragoon being summonable off of 1 card from the deck is what's broken. A card like Dragoon should never have had a summoning requirement as easy to meet as it does.
@@ChaddyFantome with out verte dragoon does come with a cost either 1) more bricks has to be ran to for the insight mil while it also being the only monster that turn 2) the red eyes and DM are searched which adds more steps and needed deck space for dragoon 3) they are milled to be used with magicalised fusion (which is difficult to search by the way) and needs extra cards to mill red eyes and DM 3) fusion substitutes are used which reduces the pops dragoon gets and needs extra or main deck space also introducing more choke points for the combo. verte vastly minimises the cost with the the very minimal cost of needing 2 extra slots for it, bringing out 2 effect monsters, having red eyes fusion in deck and having the vanilas in your hand/deck. verte makes dragoon kinda like a link 2.
@@ChaddyFantome my man, if not dragoon every deck will run another brokenass Fusion when it comes out. The problem is Anaconda for making every single Fusion Card searchable and activatable. If not Dragoon it's gonna be the new Phoenix Enforcer. Why don't we just ban every fusion card that's good because Anaconda allows you to abuse that.
Yeah, of course they should ban Dark Magician, because if they ban Red-Eyes Black Dragon people would just move on to some random Dragon effect monsters lol
Anaconda has ALWAYS been the problem. It’s WAY too generic. They could also errata Anaconda to “2 Plant-Type Effect Monsters” to keep it in its own lane and not bleed over into every deck.
You weren’t around for brilliant fusion, were you? That restriction does nothing to stop its genericness. People just play lone fire and predplants cards to get the plants and can pop off with their other cards or just make stuff with verte. You need to have a little more experience with the game before trying to criticize which card was the problem in the first place.
@@theonethathungers5552 Verte is the last resort card if your entire combo is stopped by handtraps. Let's see, I'm managed to stop tribrigade Ferrijit and fraktal from plussing heavily, their follow up 99% of the time will be summoning verte with what is left in their field. That's ridiculous.
I run anaconda as a generic and reliable way search super-poly. I think it should have a clause stating that it needs to use your opponent monsters as material to activate its effect.
Anaconda is the problem, it’s emblematic of the problem with a lot of link monsters, they’re way too generic. Anaconda should’ve required Predaplants, maybe people would’ve played Scorpio and cobra in their decks but that’s five cards you have to play just to summon dragoon.
Playing that engine would actually be 8 cards because most people notice how consistency is best and lonefire blossom, which was literally hyper popular in brilliant fusion’s hay days, would get their engine started so much faster and it takes one card less than the brilliant fusion engine. Links monsters don’t have an issue with being generic, that’s not exclusive to themselves. Anyone who has played for longer than you have (which is likely less than two years) would know that. They aren’t even a problem. You have an issue with the effects on them, not the fact that they are links. Then being a link monster has nothing to do with the issue. Not only is your suggestion to “fix” verte just plain wrong, but also shows how little you actually know about the game.
Leaning towards "Ban Anaconda" so not every deck has a 1-card Dragoon, etc. plus more interruptions possibly. Without it, either play more bricks to search the REF or cut the engine completely. REF's activation restriction makes Dragoon less OP, too.
I think banning Anaconda is the better card because, like Tyrant Neptune, a copying effect is too powerful because there's no way to truly future proof it.
@@azuredragoon2054 Even a casual like myself see that there's a problem here. There are quite a few fusion cards in the game that allow you to use material from the deck (Red-eyes fusion, neos fusion, fusion destiny.) and some of the cards you can make with them are pretty strong (Dragoon, rainbow neos, destroy phoenix). No matter how powerful a card is, it's nothing without a fast way to get to it. And when you have a card that allows easy access to not only the card, but several other combos, you start to think that the power card might not be the problem.
Its still very easy to summon this boss with Keeper of Dragon Magic If it weren't there any fusion support cards then I wouldve agreed but its still easy to summon Dragoon even without anaconda and it doesnt require many recources
Effect copiers are always bad card design but it's cool to finally see people realize this and not continue to be mad at a Lyrilusc fusion monster. Anaconda should go but I do maybe feel a bit partial to allowing Destroy Phoenix Enforcer a chance to to prove itself rather than decide it's fate immediately.
Destroy Phoenix Enforcer is going to see play regardless of Anaconda. Heroes are one of the most popular archetypes in the game and he makes the Hero deck a lot better along with with Destiny Hero - Denier.
In my opinion, Anaconda is sort of like Neptune or Supreme king starving venom. That kind of effect copying warps future card design in ways that weren’t intended. I do think it needs to be banned, but I’m also not against just snapping dragoon too because red-eyes fusion and pass is ridiculous in a lot of control decks.
@@nunocarvalho6671 Dragoon is strong because anaconda provides a quick way to get to it that doesn't interfere with your combos all that much. There are a lot of fusion cards that use material from the deck or bypass material all together. Being able to copy any of them along with other strong fusion cards like super-poly is clearly an issue that will lead to many-a strong fusion monster being abused and banned should anaconda not be stopped.
Personally I think the underlining issue is they need to stop printing effects that just let you ignore card penalities. But I think the Link 2 has definitely got to got.
If a card requires too much work to summon than unless it’s a guaranteed win than it won’t be worth it cause there will probably be a simple way for your opponent to out it. Kaijus for one.
Anoconda is really just like Union carrier. The more you zoom out in a vacuum, the stronger it becomes and gets worse as anything with a Fusion border is introduced
Yes the only real argument Is that red eyes fusion pass with 4 back row is too strong in control decks but even that seems like a red herring considering that the same argument could be used to ban any monster that can be summoned off one card. Should we ban fusion destiny and pheonix enforcer because you can go fusion destiny set 4 pass? How about banning denko sekka or amano-inwato because you can go set 4 pass with them? The logic isint rigorous there
@@CountofBleck Anaconda limits Konami's potential to develop good "fusion" cards and support archetypes that already have them because it's like a generic searcher for "fusion" cards, but even better since it ignores the activation requirements. In the end you have 3 options: 1) You ban Dragoon, upset Dark Magicians and Red Eyes fans, and do nothing for the meta since it gets replaced by the new Hero fusion; 2) You ban Dragoon and the new fusion, Dark Magician, Red Eyes and Hero fans are upset, Verte isn't played anymore just like it wasn't before Dragoon; 3) You ban Verte, you have the same impact as 2) on the meta but the only people upset are Predaplant fans. In OCG, they went for 1), they have a slightly worse Dragoon with a better engine, which isn't much of an improvement. And if you go for 2) Verte doesn't get played anyway since there's virtually nobody who plays Predaplants and it saw no competitive play before Dragoon. Might as well go for number 3). Obviously Konami doesn't only care about the meta game, so it's possible they'll go for 1) again and push people to buy the new set, but from a player's standpoint, unless there's something I'm missing, banning Verte seems like the best option.
@@CountofBleck Fusion Destiny (alongside Super Polymerization, Thunder Dragon Fusion, and literally every other relevant fusion spell): Allow us to introduce ourselves.
Yeah I remember when stratos, destiny draw, and vision hero vyon were being abused. And I’d definitely call using a card in an engine abuse and not using a strong engine to improve my deck.
@Omega Zero How so? Having to search out the predaplant (or play 3-of) would already make the card a way bigger commitment. Currently the Dragun engine takes up 3 main deck slots, this would make it take 4-6 and/or searchers. Not looking to over-nerf it here, like so many cards that get errata'd and never see play again.
@@DoctorFalchion That is a Good point And make its use Only For Predaplant Fusions For that archetype it was meant for to begin with Konami Will make $ if they keep it unbanned but is it worth it to see people argue or perhaps leave the game due to this Bullshit
Cards that copy the effects of other cards are always overpowered, the one exception is diamond dude because it takes a turn, but copying an effect with no real drawbacks is just too powerful.
Takes a turn and doesn't really give you a choice in the matter since you have to excavate and pray for a Normal Spell. Which is why it's perfectly fair that you can use D-Dude's effect multiple times per turn assuming you can resummon him multiple times.
@@reservationatdorsias3215 No one cares about Phantom Of Chaos because it can't do battle damage, you have to hard draw/summon it, and it's only on your turn. As opposed to SKSV or Neptune that can do pretty insane stuff because they don't have those restrictions.
Anaconda is so good. I like how versatile it is. As I play magnet warriors it's a great way to bring out Imperion Magnum. So if anything gets hit it'll be 'conda. Seems it's a... CONDuit for big bad boss monsters.
@@MonochromeTrouble why ban the interesting card that has a multitude of cool applications? Even if they ban Anaconda, a lot of decks are probably still going to run Dragoon along with Insight and Fusion. I say ban the actual problem card. Assuming you think Dragoon is a problem.
@@wyomingptt dragoon is 100% fine without verte the restriction on ref balances out since thats your only play for that turn plus you are running more bricks. even without dragoon verte will be broken as shown with phoenix enforcer and will continue to have the potential to be broken as long as new fusion cards are made
I also play magnets and i can also agree, verte is easy to summon and while we need materials in hand, it still removes the necessity of having poly in hand
Anaconda is the problem card. Red-Eyes Fusion has enough drawbacks, and Dragoon has the drawback of having to run 2 vanilla monsters, as well as Fusion, in your main deck. I think Dragoon is strong enough to warrant the drawbacks of playing Fusion, but Anaconda gets past all of that and as long as you can get Anaconda on field you just get a free Dragoon, with no drawbacks. I would rather have an Anaconda ban than a Dragoon ban. But I'm scared that if we don't ban Anaconda, we're going to end up with a Halqifibrax situation later down the road.
I know it would have only made Verte *slightly* less splashable, but it really should have required 2 *dark* effect monsters. That would at the very least be on theme with Predaplants/Starving Venom ect.
@@masterminer2338 Konami may be shit at card design, but ummm, that paradigm is super limiting. It also well massively well limits card design, rather than "We can't have good cards that cheat stuff into play AND good cards with costs" you can't have either, strong bosses limit card design, strong enablers limit card design, weird off the wall effects REALLY limit card design in ways you had no way to predict when they do something stupid 10 years later.
It's a hard situation to tackle since there's a lot of issues here between the internal balance of Dragoon vs the overall balance of the game rn Dragoon in theory is a boss monster you should have to dedicate a whole strategy to, what with the mandatory garnets and all, but with the current Verte engine it's entirely too easy to shove Dragoon in as a low risk out/check to almost everything in the game. I feel like something about the consistency of the Verte combo needs to be toned down to make Dragoon less of a constant threat since as it is right now it's so easy to make in just about every strategy. Errata'ing cards is super lame, especially with newer ones but changing Verte's summoning condition or cost might be the best way to solve the issue of a hyper generic and splashable defense/offense machine without outright banning any cards. Poor greene boi, this was never what he wanted
People have a bad habit of looking at the end result instead of the process that lead to it. Dragoon is a powerful card once it hits the field, but anaconda is what allows it to hit the field so often without the need to sacrifice your plays. Sure, one could argue that red-eyes fusion is the thing at fault here, but what happens down the line when another fusion card comes out that used material from the deck? What happens when one of the cards you can summon with it is also powerful in their own right. How many cards would have to be banned before they notice that Anaconda is the common link between them all?
@@samuelsoliday4381 common "link" lmao Fr tho yeah link summoning for as useful as it is as a universal mechanic for decks has maybe become a little TOO generic as a result. I like the mechanic a lot as an evolution of the XYZ system but this is kinda ridiculous
@@samuelsoliday4381 To be fair Dragoon can still be summoned with Keeper of Dragon Magic easily It wouldnt be easy as using predeplant But it would still be very easy to summon this frickin boss with 1 Keeper and 1 Dark Magician
@@themetus2190 The thing about keeper, though, is that it takes far more effort and resources to use in that way. Keeper is best when you build a deck around it while Anaconda fits into ANY deck because of how generic it is.
@@shanehaney6040 Because then you only use it in Red-Eyes decks searching it with Insight by running a bunch of vanillas, or using Timaeus in DM. I suppose if you can somehow get out Muddy Muddragon too. If you simply limit REF, DM/REBD Decks can still use it because they go into Verte more often. The control decks rely on REF to summon Dragoon, so if it is limited, they will have to run a bunch of extenders just to make Verte, which wouldn't really be worth it compared to a one card Dragoon. I think people are blowing it out of proportion, I don't think it is as popular as people are making it out to be, nor is it as powerful.
@@Goblin_Hands absolutely agree, *Dragoon can't stop Verte from getting annihilated* even if Dragoon is on the field, you still have a weak ass 500 ATK monster stuck on the field when your turn is over. I've been OTK'd plenty of times while I had Dragoon because Verte sits there naked. after using your at least 6000 life points. 5500 damage to kill your opponent is easy in this game.
@@gaethanos3686 then we can all complain about how every deck is going run magicians souls, dm, and magicalized fusion to bring it out at the end of the combo. Plus, magicalized can be used literally anytime you want and continue your plays afterwards. Sure, go ahead and heavily cripple the archetype of one of the most lovable ygo characters in duel monsters. I’m sure nobody is going to complain about a lack of POTENTIAL.nyeh in their Brooklyn accents
I still can't believe it can blow up monsters, deal a decent amount of damage AND attack in the same turn. Literally blowing up two 2000+ monsters, negating something (when your own stuff just to boost the attack), and attacking is 8000 points of damage. Things like Chaos Dragon Levianeer can't attack after it blows up two cards and requires similar amounts of set up to get out.
If Verte gets negated it is the end, 2000lp gone with a 500 target on field, no further summons and you have garnets in the deck; if Levianeer gets negated, no big deal, 3K, attack, and summon something else. Verte is composed of 2 monsters, plus requires 2 ED spaces, plus 3 bricks in deck, Levianeer is 1 and can also summon something else or hit something in the hand and be recycled for free from Seyfert or CED Armageddon. In most cases, people don't use Dragoon's or Levianeer's pop effect, though obviously Dragoon's is far better (or is it? it only destroys monsters), and the negate is nice, but generally Savage, Apoloussa, and Harbinger have more/free negates, which I bring up because those are the cards Levianeer tends to go into. The protection is decent against certain decks that don't have Ice Dragon's Prison, Dark Ruler No More, Forbidden Droplets, Zeus, Balendroch, Borreload/Sword, Avramax, Accesscode Talker, BLS (attack the Verte, Banish Dragoon), or any monster that can reach 3-4K, and if it becomes too much of a problem, main Kaijus.
it's funny how this card was probably intended to revive the red eyes archetype but it didn't do the trick in the slightest, people just took the cards relevant to summon it easier and left the archetype to die, as usual I like red eyes black dragon though. I wonder what it would take to make it a popular archetype
it will never be within itself to people who don't count anything not running 'pure' as red eyes, it's strenghs are in it's application as small engines, red eyes dragonlink was very strong, red eyes fusion is very strong, but people don't consider a 4 to 11 card engine to be a red eyes deck, so every time it's good it gets ignored as being something else
I have been playing with a red-eyes deck for years now. Just for fun not competition wise. Its fun to play with dragoons but i dont play verte. Red-eyes could be a strong archetype with the right support its just all over the place in the bad way with new support and old. Just make it a burn deck already and make inferno fire blast searchable with red-eyes engine.
Master Rule 6: when a card copies another card's effect, it ALSO copies its requirements and costs. There, solved the whole thing without banning or errata-ing anything.
Only problem is that achieves nothing against fusion destiny as an engine, but completely turns off red eyes fusion. Same difference as banning red eyes fusion.
Good to see that most people have the common sense to realize that Verte Anaconda is the problem card. Not to say that Dragoon is weak by any stretch, but Anaconda's existence takes its summoning condition from "Can you get Red-Eyes Fusion to hand?" to "Can you summon 2 monsters?".
The fact it still wins you the game from hard activating REF is still broken though. Anaconda only makes a broken card more accessible. A dogshit card like REF shouldn't win you a game and yet it can because dragoon is THAT overpowered.
@@ChaddyFantome like I said, I'm not saying that Dragoon isn't powerful on its own, and it may warrant looking at on its own merits in the future. But looking at the current meta combo that puts Dragoon on the field, it's very obvious that Anaconda is the problem card. There are almost no good ways besides Anaconda to access REF at the moment; If Anaconda were gone, meta decks that want to summon Dragoon will either have to hard draw into their one-of REF, or play it at multiple copies & end up with more bricks clogging the deck.
@@Dramatic_Gaming Virtual World with Dragoon via Muddy has more tops in the last 2 months than Drytrons with Dragoon via Verte iirc Drytron are a Far more unhealthy deck that creates obnoxious game states but frankly no iteration of Dragoon currently has any indicator of being highly bannable, also the Drytron 'combo' is often get stopped by hand traps then consolidate left over combo pieces into Verte try to make Dragoon pass, it would be nice if an already obnoxious deck couldn't do that, but honestly the Drytron deck without Dragoon can be slightly more frustrating due to it having very slightly higher odds of having a live Orange Light in hand to stop an early hand trap than the Dragoon build.
Honestly I think red-eyes fusion is more of the problem card, its the only way to summon dragoon from anaconda. Hard activating red-eyes fusion is also still pretty strong in control decks, a lot of boards don't end on a spell negate or two spell negates so you can bait out one then summon dragoon on them. Phoenix enforcer coming out has made me view verte as a more problematic card however, but I don't think you'd need to ban verte for dragoon. REF would be enough to keep him in check.
Back in the OCG you could summon tour guide, bring out sagan, make anaconda and search maxx c, and make dragoon. On the opponent turn, drop maxx c and its basically game because your opponent will need to special summon multiple monsters to deal with dragoon, giving you lots of draws.
I run a Dragunity Knight/Stardust deck, so I usually deal with Dragoon with either Shooting Majestic Star Dragon, or with Drag unity Knight Areadbhair(Areadbhair can banish any monster it destroys by battle, and can banish a Dragunity from grave to negate it's effects and then banish it). But hey if all else fails, Gadarla the mystical dust Kaiju
Anaconda is the clear target. Without him, the combo is not possible and people can't splash it into any deck. Also, his existence in the game ruins future card design. Anytime they want to make a powerful fusion for any archetype with its own fusion spell, they'd have to consider Anaconda and that's not fair to those archetypes in the future. Dragoon is annoying, but if he is harder to bring out, it's easier to justify his power. Plus, as anything in Yugioh, he will eventually be powercreeped out. Anaconda could too, but his effect is just too generic, too splashable, and too susceptible to abuse for years to come.
This certainly seems like fair reasoning but Id love to be able to see anaconda in other decks, especially for lower tiers. And I feel like fusion monsters have ways they can be balanced. Like the new destroy Phoenix enforcer which will be usable in the same way, it can revive itself every turn which is great for d heroes but makes it abusable. Why not have it revive another d hero and it would make it less of an issue.
Imagine a card like Dragoon being powercrept That's not something I want to see the game reach lmao On the topic of powercreep, can you believe that with all the new cards in the past few years, Master Peace has been powercrept a little bit?
Just ban all link 2 monsters with effect. How many of them are abused to death by meta decks now? Halq, Union Carrier, Electrumite, Agarpain, Scrap Wyvern and now Verte. These cards were originally made for MR4 but now that those restrictions are gone their strength sky rockets to unseen levels. So they should either errata them or just ban them.
Anaconda should be changed so that it adds a fusion card to your hand, instead of taking on the eff. That way you cant circumvent the drawbacks of red-eyes fusion of Neos Fusion.
Y’all complaining when Dragoon is barely making a dent in the meta. If anything Dragoon is used mostly by rogue decks to have a chance against the top decks.
I’m don’t play too many decks w dragons, but is there a better card then vanilla red eyes to send for verte? Like, the additional pop, while nice, could just be worse than sending like a red eyes wyvern.
I’d honestly rather either have an errata on anaconda to make it harder to summon Maybe make it’s summoning condition 2 plants or something Or just ban anaconda I don’t like dragoon either but anaconda just frustrates me more
What if Verte Anaconda got errata? If it’s effect instead let you activate a Fusion Spell from the deck, instead of copying a fusion spell’s effect, you wouldn’t be able to avoid the restriction of Red-Eyes Fusion.
This is a really interesting take I haven't seen before. I don't think this would make Super Poly too broken as there's still the chance to respond to Verte's effect before it activates the card. It would have to read something like "During your main phase, you can: Pay 2000 LP and reveal 1 "Polymerization" Normal or Quick-Play spell or "Fusion" Normal or Quick-Play spell from your deck; immediately after this effect resolves, activate that revealed card, also, you cannot special summon monsters for the rest of this turn, except by the effect of that spell."
@@MobiusMundUr But it’s a non-quick super Poly on your first turn, or (if going second) one that you need to get 3 summons and a search effect off to use. If your up against a board that you need Super Poly’s no-respond effect to break, I think chances are pretty high that that board can deal with your attempted Anaconda before you actually get to use Super Poly. Anything with quick-play destruction or monster negation could stop that combo dead. Just for fun, imagine if you were trying to use Super Poly to get rid of a Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon, by fusing him into Predaplant Chimerafflesia. The Dragoon could pop one of your two monsters before the link summon, or pop the Anaconda before he searches the super Poly. As a board breaker, it’s way more fragile than hard-drawing Super Poly, and it still has no option to be quick-played as disruption.
Negate the summon so it never makes it to the field, wether you negate the spell that fuses it, ash your oponent when the go in the deck, or solemn scold or judgement it just before it hits the field and send it to grave since its effect isnt active until its on field, basically, to beat it, you cant let it on the field
Hey if someone reads this and wants to answer considering the cards and effects metioned in this video. Is a card like Pot of Greed so powerfull it should be ban forever if cards like Dragoon and Anaconda exist? I say this since I have NOT play Yu-Gi-Oh in a long time, so I can't judge but it seems like something like Dragoon or Anaconda are immensely more powerfull than drawing 2 cards.
Anaconda requires to material to make putting you at a neg -1 to go into dragoon. Basically it eats resources. If you can negate it then it's even worse since if you can't use the monster for something then you wasted the entire play Draw 2 is a time bomb the absolute worst it can be is a one for one or a one for negate. It boosts the consistency of all decks which helps already powerful combo decks brick less often Dragoon is very strong no doubt but I think the bigger issue is that he is far to easy to bring out with minimal deck investment
Ban Anaconda, then release a retrain that limits it to plant fusion or something else that's specific enough that's useful in a pure predaplant deck but not in anything else. Just don't errata it.
Honestly I dont care if they ban anything this format.it is a pretty fun and varied meta. On top of that dragoon hasn't really been an issue it let's non meta decks compete and keeps local play more varied. If you hit dragoon you dont really hit meta decks you hit most rogue decks
@@masterminer2338 you dont understand him..read what he is saying. Banning dragoon will hurt rogue players more. Combo decks abuse it but dont need it because they can rely on the rest of the board that they made.
@@masterminer2338 but they don't, it's debatable to even put Dragoon in Drytron or Virtual World, Dragoon competes for toolbox space in Virtual World the versatility of which is one of the most powerful aspects of the deck so often doesn't make the cut there & Drytron's optimal build is so reliant on Fairies to boost their win% by small fractions that just 2 extra non fairies can affect their winrate & so Dragoon can end up not making the cut there either due to the maindeck bricks. & Tribrigade's extra deck is stacked, they usually don't even play Dragoon even when they have enough space, they'd rather play extra copies of their core engine cards up to 2/3/3 from 1/2/2 before adding Verte/Dragoon. Even Zeus can not make the cut in Tri, & Zeus is staple across all 3 of the above decks, completely outperforms Dragoon & is itself an out to Dragoon, the only time Dragoon would ever really need to be hit is if Zeus got banned, & even then it'd be debatable depending on the format.
As someone who doesn’t really play IRL due to lack of knowledge/ lack of scene in my area, I was looking forward to maybe getting my hands on this in master dual however I see that it’s banned in the OCG so I can’t even play it on that. Idk if that’s a good thing or not but it’s very interesting to see how insane this card can be
Spellcaster Fusion monsters between Dark Magician and Flame Swordsman, Buster Blader, Gaia the Fierce Knight, Dark Magician Girl, Red Eyes Black Dragon, Black Luster Soldier. Only ones missing are Blue Eyes White Dragon and Summoned Skull.
An Anaconda ban is the correct call. Its generic summoning requirement reminds me of knightmare mermaid before it was banned. But that is only my personal opinion.
Anaconda's the main issue, Dragoon is simply part of the system. 2000 lp for an easy summoning. The cost? Not being able to further your board after, if you hadn't already.
@@nunocarvalho6671 And Dragoon is... "OK" without Verte. It's Verte that makes him playable in and more useful in literally everything BUT Dark Magician and Red-Eyes. Get rid of him and Dragoon stops being a problem. Because you're NOT going to play 3 REFs and possibly 3 Insights and discard fodder for it just to summon Dragoon.
Red-Eyes Fusion is the issue. Anaconda is a utility card for any fusion deck. Dragoon is being put into any deck because of Red Eyes Fusion. Take Red Eyes Fusion away and Anaconda couldn't summon Dragoon with ease. You'd still have to wait till you get the material in hand or field to use anaconda to fuse for Dragoon.
@@nunocarvalho6671 No it doesn't, have you not been paying attention to the OCG where Dragoon is banned? Everyone now plays the new Destiny Hero Fusion boss instead. Verte Anaconda is like the Needlefiber of Fusions, as long as it exists Konami can't print anymore good Fusion bosses/ spells because it's just too generic.
Imo the best choice is to errata Verte so that one of the materials has to be a predaplant, because even if you got dragoon and a strong easy to summon fusion monster releases like destroy Phoenix enforcer release then they'll just move on to that, Don't want verte to be banned but to stop the abuse it should be restricted to it's archtype
But verte istn't the problem the problem is red eyes fusion that can use cards From the deck . Verte was just like who topologic bomer dragon banned the plant monster Phoenixian Cluster Amaryllis
@@Number8Novo but again like I said, ban dragoon or red eyes fusion and they move on to destroy Phoenix, are you gonna have fusion destiny banned too? Or what if they make another strong fusion monster? Make Verte be halq 2.0 and let all the cards surrounding it be banned and never let the problem card be dealt with, also banning red-eyes fusion just succumbs red-eyes to being one of the worst decks in the game, the change I recommend keeps dragoon around for people who like it, keeps Verte for predaplant decks, and keeps red eyes fusion while dealing with the problem and any future problems
@@Number8Novo Verte is the "problem" because any deck can play Verte when they just need 2 monsters on the field to make Verte there are no restrictions to summon Verte. Red-Eyes Fusion prevents you from summoning for the rest of the turn when you activate it. Verte however bypasses that restriction on Red-eyes Fusion.
@@MrZeroCore No? The whole point of orphys + Scorpio was to search brilliant fusion for serpahanite,why search for a fusion spell you're gonna dump with Verte? And if you just wanna make Verte then you'll have to start your combo with it instead of ending it with Verte which places a lot of restrictions on the combo not to mention the consistency
Short answer: no Long answer: dragoon is not the issue, the new destiny hero is proof of that, the issue is verte anaconda is a lot like hot sauce, YOU CAN PUT THAT SHIT ON EVERYTHING!
Finally someone with a brain! It also can’t be Ash Blossomed!!! How hard is it to understand such a simple fact? This isn’t rocket science, ya’ll are all just playing this game on auto-pilot.
While I agree with this, activate REF and pass with 3 backrow is still a thing. But they won't ban Verte because Destroy Phoenix is coming out so they'll keep Verte to go with that. Not saying that's what I WANT them to do, just what I think they WILL do.
The new destiny hero isn’t really comparable though. One is a once per turn quick effect pop that’s a bit hard to get rid of, the other is a quick effect negate and pop that’s very hard to get rid of and can also pop and burn up to twice on your turn. Verte is only ever a problem when it’s summoning dragoon
No because I have tribute turtle and many other ways to deal with it I love playing against strong cards, there is a strong feeling of satisfaction to those matchups
Thats the reason y i play magician dragon ritual chaos max fusion deck even if the bicks appears in my hand i can use them in many ways except dragoon but i think to get a second dragoon
Verte will probably get banned or errata'd with the incoming D-hero fusion monster. It's bassically a drident that can bring itself back from the gy every turn and the fusion materials can become a pot of greed or a free special summon from the gy.
@@Leumas8308 destiny hero disk commander received an errata and was released from the ban list, basically still has his draw 2 when special summoned from the gy but has a hard once per turn on it and can’t be special summoned the turn he hits the gy
@@peysorthemad6894 It is a once per duel errata. Not a hard once per turn. They really wanted to make sure you couldn't loop him again by copying his effect or some other cheese.
@@Leumas8308 I thought people were just playing Malicious and Denier, which is a free link 3 on the following turn provided you didn't draw your other copy of Malicious.
Back in May I had a more in-depth discussion with my friends in a local Yugioh gaming group about this very subject, including the comparison as to which card in the usual Anaconda-Dragoon combo is the big problem. In an in-game logical sense, both Anaconda and Dragoon have their reasons to be banned and reasons to not be banned. Yes, Dragoon is an oppressive card when it is on the field, but as with Chaos MAX and others you need to also consider what it takes to get it there. Even with the Anaconda you can't just drop it willy-nilly since Anaconda locks out all summons afterwards, and without Anaconda very very few decks can naturally run Dragoon reliably - in my group's analysis only Red-Eyes and Dark Magician could incorporate the Dragoon engine pieces at least somewhat functionally into them without one or more pieces being automatic dead draws. Anaconda on its own isn't threatening on the surface level, but when you think of it it has terrifying potential. And just to illustrate what I mean, how many Tuners have been banned because Halqifibrax is a thing? Yeap, even without Dragoon there are other bonkers fusion spells and monsters to abuse with Anaconda: Shaddoll Fusion and Fusion Destiny are the most prevalent right now, but in the future as long as Anaconda is around Konami have to balance both new Fusion spells and new Fusion monsters with the 500atk plant-snake in mind or it will get broken fast. But then comes the final part: Konami. We have often joked how the company's real name is "Ko-mani" for quite obvious reasons. So based on that they will first reprint Dragoon and probs Anaconda in this years megatins and then ban Dragoon. Why I say so? Well, aside setting up the Destiny Hero - Destroy Phoenix Enforcer's release to be more valuable for them (with Anaconda around lots of folks wanna play it, meaning more sales) we again have precedence for Konami banning cards around a problematic Link monster instead of the Link - in fact we have two very notable ones, Halqifibrax and pre-errata Firewall. Folks may no longer remember just how overtly oppressive Firewall especially in multiple copies was, and just how many cards or even decks (A - Assault Core and thus ABC for example) had to be crippled if not flat-out killed competetive scene-wise just so Konami didn't have to ban or errata FW for over a year. So my guess is they will ban Dragoon, see how the Destiny Hero shapes up, and *maybe* then hit Anaconda after a format or three of Anaconda-Destiny meta. Now watch Konami ban Red-Eyes Fusion instead. X'D edit: grammar erros corrected
yeah . . . your friends aren't very familiar with competitive decks, fist 2 listed below can use the extra deck toolbox alone . Dragonlink can make Dragoon easily using Rokkets to make Muddy Mudragon + adding 1 dragon, but they would rather use Rokkets for Savage Dragon & random extra dragons for Heiratic Spheres, those 2 together win games vs more common things than Dragoon . Virtual World uses Muddy Mudragon + Tzolkin to make Dragoon, both easily accessible, & this one actually sees play, though many prefer other options of which VW has a lot including making Invoked Caliga with the same play. . the control decks Sky Striker, Eldlich, Guru, Amazement & Traptrix all play Red Eyes Fusions maindeck, amoung other generally worse performing rogue decks, though they usually don't run the Red Eyes Insight package to double the rate at which Dragoon will show up Dragoon remains a regular feature of matches involving these decks, & they easily could run Insight, they don't because extra control cards in hand are considered more valuable than high chances to get out Dragoon. on top of these there are many other much less relevant decks that can run Muddy, such as Zefra that can inherently make a 6 Synchro & don't have trouble getting access to a dragon, every deck that can make Raidraptor Wise Strix can also make Dragoon as that card accesses the Dragonlink engine due to the summoning conditions of Dragunity Romulus, this includes Blackwings, Lyrilusc & actually any deck that can make a Rank 4 monster because 2 winged beast monsters is a Rank 4 play via Force Strix.
Just hit red eyes fusion, this allows those willing to run the bricks to still be able to summon dragoon. Or a dark magician deck can run it still. The Phoenix enforcer does put anaconda in a risky position though
I think banning red eyes fusion is overkill (granted it should be erratad to lock special summoning to red eyes dragon monsters in case of another dragoon situation that involves red eyes), i think an errata to dragoon by adding a must be fusion summon clause and replace red eyes as one of its fusion materials to something generic like level 7 dragon normal monster to stop red eyes fusion from working on it is enough for dragoon. Verte Anaconda absolutely needs to be hit by the ban hammer or erratad to lock it to predaplants as that card is one of the most poorly designed cards I’ve ever seen.
@@chiliandcornbread09 it doesn't actually hit Red Eyes that hard, without Dragoon every single Red Eyes fusion monster was sub optimal to play, like 1 could maybe be accomodated as a go second turn 3+tech off Insight or even off Verte, Red Eyes is often badly built because REF builds are often the way it's built, so banning REF might even make the most commonplace Red Eyes decks better as it pushes them towards optimal deck cores.
No it’s not, it’s brilliant fusion 2.0, except now I get a free fusion search with it. Thanks, now I get a super poly and my dragoon off of a lonefire blossom.
@@theonethathungers5552 You can summon Anaconda with the Predaplant engine already, but that's a whole engine you would have to run adding the number of bricks to your deck.
In virtual world if you activate qinglong and it gets negated by dragoon then you get the search because it was destroyed and then make number 39 utopia beyond to beat over dragoon then make a 4 mat zeus which is pretty nice
If Konami stopped that stupid snake link then we wouldn't see much of dragoon as we do Red-eyes fusion isn't the problem especially with its crippling drawback if it gets negated
@@mulundamunika8215 yeah, a win condition for a shitty rogue deck. With a 86% win rate with a turn 1 Dragoon I say it makes rouge decks “better.” Good might be exaggerating.
I haven't played for a while, but this reminds me of the old Ice Barrier synchros. Traditionally, lowering the combo's consistency helped with similar problems. In this combo it looks like the Cobra dude is way too consistent of a choice, it's definitely the convoluted card of the bunch. Banning it until they errata it to keep it within its archtype sounds like the best option.
Yes Verte Anaconda is good but so far other targets aren't broken and actually this card helps other decks in some other ways. Red-Eyes Fusion is average on its own Meanwhile Dragoon has several ways of bringing it out and with the new wave of Magician support it will only make it easier to summon.
I think banning Dragoon and Verte is the play for the most healthy gamestate, however I feel like only Dragoon will be hit and they'll leave Verte for the new Destiny HERO fusion
Everyone who says this is not thinking about the future. Fusion Destiny and Red-Eyes Fusion are both broken targets for Anaconda. Only Dark Magician, Red-Eyes and HERO players will be able to play Dragoon and Phoenix Enforcer viably if Anaconda is banned. Would that be so bad?
Errata or retrain Anaconda into a version that requires the spell to meet its activation conditions. Then Konami can give a quirky activation condition to any powerful new fusion spells they want to print; the kind that is trivial for a focused deck but crippling otherwise.
The conditions are met. The card avoids restrictions that exist outside of the effect. It’s a restriction on the card, not the effect. What you’re suggesting is what we have right now.
Honestly I recently returned and the idea of a turn 1 special summon and Negate, as a guy who played Anti Meta it’s effects work well in Stun/Anti Meta with its other effects and makes it almost a guarantee win.
Dragun, a card that is essentially a neg 4 in the form of needing 3 slots in the main and one in the extra not including itself to make: *exists* Yugioh players: *angry crying wojak* 3 mat apollousa, bahamut into toadally: *exists* Yugioh players: "I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that" Yeah, Dragun is definitely the problem card.
@@jasikshaw9309 As the fusion spell and it's garnets are in the deck, and Verte in the extra deck, you do not need to have them in your hand. You literally just use two monsters and end with a Verte and a Dragoon. Thats 2 materials for 2 monsters, in addition to thinning your deck of potential bricks. You still have 3-4 other cards in your hand to do plays (or even as hand traps). You have to jump through so many hoops to even CONSIDER dragoon to be a neg 4. In the case of Fusion Destiny, you actually go PLUS on card advantage due to being able to send a monster that can let you SS a drawn for free if you're lucky and a pot of greed if you have no hand cards.
They already banned linkross & Union Carrier. Anaconda is another way too easy to summon generic link monster with extremely versatile effect. So yeah, they should have never printed Anaconda.
@@lz9275 Yeah, that's what I meant with "should've never printed that card" - at least not in this generic form. Maybe it would've already been enough to say, that it should have been 2 plants or insect monsters, or something. Or maybe instead of copying a fusion card, it could have maybe searched it. But then there shouldn't have been fusion spells that don't need the monsters on hand or field, e.g. Red Eyes Fusion.
If we're in the process of banning cards for even more obnoxious versions of other cards offences, can we ban Mystic Mine too? It's just a better Chicken Game for the player who uses it and results in just as awful games. But ya ban Anaconda and Dragun as a bonus. The fact the Konami's seeming only solution to try and get people away from playing Dragun and start buying new staples is to make new kinds of Dragun should be proof enough that this is an unhealthy card for the game going forward.
I would probably say Anaconda mostly then either one as the problem because I been seeing some pure heroes deck to try and help special summon destroyer with anaconda, but I haven’t seen dragoon yet, but it could be possible.
The only way that Anaconda gets banned is if Phoenix Enforcer is just as problematic, if not more, than Dragoon. But Dragoon and Phoenix Enforcer are two entirely different cards. Dragoon has even crazier effects while Enforcer has his own effects but to a lesser extent. But only time will tell. As for Dragoon now, I guess banning him might be the best course. You wouldn't want Dragoon and Enforcer running around in the same format unless Konami is that crazy.
why would you not want them in the same format ? they both mostly boost rogue decks or create variance builds of other good decks that top in small numbers, we've literally never seen dragoon be a staple presence of any tcg format, so it's only been creating diversity
@@Marcusjnmc Because you would have a Cyber Dragon Infinity issue all over. Decks that shouldn't be making a particular monster, making that monster. I am for diversity but when your deck becomes "I can make X monster", you aren't really being diverse.
@@13SilverSoul REF alone is far less ubiquitous than rank 4s were , it sees play mostly in a specific type of deck, leaving it unplayed in many more successful competitive decks that are not the same as those
Many decks hard-use REF on it's own, Virtual World and many other Syncro decks can use Ultimaya Tzolkin and Muddy Mudragon to summon it without having to use ANYTHING on their main deck, at the cost of missing out on the destruction effect wich they don't really need most of the time anyway. A card with an omni-negate that also makes it harder to destroy by battle, requires non-targeting non-destruction removal to get off the field, and has no summoning restrictions whatsoever is pretty much the epythome of a card that should have never been made. Anaconda is ALSO banworthy because ignoring the costs of cards is always a giant "ABUSE ME" sign wich could be absolutely disastrous. An extreme example of a potential abusable target is Utimate Crystal Magic. Had this card been a Quick-Play spell with "fusion" on it's name, you would be able to legally send the card to the GY with Anaconda at any moment and summon Rainbow Overdragon without having to play a single Crystal Beast in the deck. If Dragoon got banned, Rainbow Neos and the new HERO fusion would immediately take his place as the new "instant F* you" card to abuse with Anaconda. Rainbow Neos was ALREADY being abused like this in all kinds of decks before Dragoon got released. It is sad because many fusion archetypes like Ancient Gear and pure Shaddolls are completely reliant on Anaconda to work, but for the well-being of the game, BOTH MUST BE BANNED.
go second rainbow neos clears were Extremely niche, & only really saw much play prior to the Secret Slayers advancements in power creep, now that Accesscode is released it's doubtful many decks would run it
The problem is most definetly anaconda being way to easy to bring out. They could erata its effect. That it can only copy the effects of spell or trap cards. That have "predaplant" in it's effect text. That would make a bit more sense. Make it so that anaconda. Only works if you are running predaplants.
Anaconda was always going to be a long term problem beyond Dragoon. I’d be up for banning both honestly, but Anaconda is the bigger priority between the two. Link Vrains 3 just gave us so many dumb link monsters.
@@vincentcolon7216 depends on the deck and player. some are absolute garbage; it really depends on the dickhead running dragoon and what deck they slap it in. you have to remember that dragoon is also splashed in less consistent abominations that depend soley on dragoon or are meant to turbo dragoon out ie predaplant engine or the tour guide sangan into verte as their main play.. again terrible deck building aside but it depends on the deck using dragoon and makes Sphere more a side deck option than a mainstay. but that's fine; thats proper deck building.
just make it to were you can only use it in red eyes or dark magician decks like have text that says if you dont have maby a red eyes or dark magician in your deck hand or grave, banish the card or something
I always wonderer why there's a Dark Magician and Red-eyes B Dragon fusion and not a Red-eyes and Blue-eyes fusion. I don't know how that fusion card could work, but i always feel that a fusion between those two make more sense that Dragoon
@@babrad Yeah, i get that. But with the monster relationship, like blue-eyes is the victory and red-eyes the potential... i still feel that a fusion could work. After all is well stablished that the real life game is very different from the anime
@@Phantomx1989 cool but that's not why they made dragoon. If anything they would make a DM and a Blue-eyes fusion way before they even think of making a red-eyed and blue-eyed one. Hell it's more possible for there to be a red-eyes + harpies fusion than it would ever be for red-eyed and blue-eyed to have one.
I myself started playing mid year of 2019..and have mainly only played rouge decks up until mid this year when I got myself a dino deck ... and honestly if I didn't run dragoon I would be screwed and even then best I have done is 3rd at locals ....I say dragoon is not the issue there is just so many cards that treat dragoon as new meat in prison ..anaconda how ever is just too easy to abuse ..hell I play gadgets and with anaconda and dragoon for a while and trap heavy as hell it was called trust issues lol
usually they are fine since even with more relax resrictions they need to be searched which makes it difficult to splash in with little effort. verte breaks the spells by making them not need to be searched or drawn and ignoring any inconivielent resrictions
Average Dragoon fan: NOOO, you can't ban Dragoon, he is healthy for the format! Average Halqifibrax enjoyers: Bro, we banned many monsters to keep Halqi a healthy card "And Halqifibrax still isn't much healthy, right, bro?" "Yes, bro"
So if you use normal Red Eyes and BM you get two monster pops per main phase (yours) and so long as you have at least one card in the hand you can negate a card or effect and that boosts your monster. Geez thats rough.
Dragoon came out in a format where 5+ omni-negates and hand ripping boards so adding another omni negate boss monstet with protections contributed to it being so despised Also being easy to summon made it get more hate. P.s not a fan of this card
dragoon was literally ignored on release ?? those decks often didn't even play Dragoon because they won anyway unless they bricked or got stopped by handtraps twice & both of them had native outs to Dragoon
Never said it was played competitively, I just said it was an omni negate boss monster with targeted and destruction protection in a format where 5+negation boards where a thing. Adding it to the card pool just rubbed ppl the wrong way
It's still gonna be high, because you can still play it in every deck. The only downside is that you have to draw the destiny fusion, but who cares about that?
I had to deal with a dytron player who went first, played uninterrupted, summon perfect herald with several cards in hand, and to top all of that off, slap down a dragoon... I barely managed to break the board and exhause his hand, and it came down to the wire with our boards cleared. He managed to get a 2 material Zeus out, and I was on the last of my life points before I drew a Hootcake and OTK him. I wish I saved that match. The crap I've seen on the Omega latter, man. Edit: I'm getting sick of siding cards JUST to out dragoon.
so I got back into Yugioh through Duel Links. Now I'm transitioning to TCG, and I got a Dragoon played against me yesterday for the first time and oh wowie.
This card was Konami forcing DM into the meta with all the subtly of a car crash. I hate legacy support like this. I'd actually like them to Errata Verte so it doesn't bypass Red-Eyes Fusion's or Fusion Destiny's summon restrictions: People who like Verte can still play it, Dark Magician & Red-Eyes Decks could still play Dragoon and the new Destiny HERO won't become a problem.
@@TuffLP Oh yeah, your right! I thought Fusion Destiny locked you into dark HEROs the whole turn, not just afterwards. Still it's was an example. I think Verte should apply the restriction of the the Fusion Spells it copies.
i like it, but there's no problem with fusion destiny restriction, it is after the fusion card is activated and anyway verte has a restriction that you cannot special summon monster after you activate it's effects so no problem, but the dragoon problem would be solved
I dont know alot about modern yugioh, so can someone please explain to me why phoenix enforcer, a 2500 fusion who lowers the enemy atk a little and floats into a destiny hero, is in this discussion on same par as a untargetable, self buffing god who negates and destroys three things (if i understood correctly) per turn??
The comparison is because Dragoon is banned in Japan so they are using Enforcer there as a pseudo-replacement, so that Verte can use Fusion Destiny instead of Red Eyes Fusion.
@@mvanh1956 yeah ok but in what sense is phoenix a replacement? If i understood it correctly he cant negate, isnt immune ect. Can be easily destroyed, targeted or even counter trap nullified. While the other is immune against all of it. One can destroy three cards per round and rise his attack to oblivion, the other just decreases atk a little (bc lets face it, duels dont take long enough to set a full graveyard of heros up). So why is phoenix good? What makes him this top tier?
the deck with the most tops in the current format with Dragoon is iirc Virtual World, even though they get no destruction or burn effect & it's considered sub optimal to even summon it in a lot of match ups, just because they can toolbox into it for the right match up at no maindeck cost don't really think that makes it banworthy, but it'd certainly remain present in the game with Verte banned if it were
You could but here's the difference: Using anaconda you only need to get any 2 effect monsters on the field to get dragoon Using EoT you'd have to get your dark magician out on the field AND have the fusion card in hand Do you see how those are totally different and one is basically too slow to be viable competitively and would take too many support cards to ever happen outside of a dedicated dark magician deck?
On the topic of Destroy Phoenix Enforcer, I'm quietly thanking Konami for inventing it as it helped me out of a corner I'd written myself into with a GX Re-Write Series. ^^;
