Holy moly than you so much for this!!!! This is the only video in the world that helps the people with Simms pumps. I have this pump in my boat. This is a very common pump found in the Ford marinized version, the Ford/Lehman. I have been nursing my hurting pump for years and this year it is finally getting around 4oz of infiltration per 20 mins of run time. last season I was able to just change the oil every 10 hours instead of 50 with only 1oz. So it finally got to the point where I was afraid of ruining the core, so I stopped running the engine. So after getting the runaround from the local pump shops, and finding no information on these pumps anywhere, I finally bought the only one available "off the shelf" from England, with a core charge that cost me double. I ordered the pump last week and just found this video today!!! so there goes 1600 bucks. If I had found this earlier I would have fixed it myself, but now I will have my old core as an extra so I will rebuild that one and have an extra! Thank you so much for demystifying the Simms pump!!! There aren't enough people around that post valuable information like this for the old diesels that will outlast us all. It is actually sad that the engines are so great but the people with the knowledge are getting to be beyond the age of posting videos, so we are rapidly losing information. I plan on posting a video of me timing the pump for removal and reinstalling the new one because there isn't a single video of that in existence (that I can find anyway). We need to pass this info along to keep these beautiful machines going. I feel that owing an older machine like these is just preserving and maintaining them for the future generation. Cheers to you for being a teacher!
Thank you so much for this video. It really help unravel the mysteries of The simms fuel injection pump. I have 6 Fordsons and they all have the simms pumps on them. Thanks again!
I could write you a book on how much I appreciate you and this video, I found it the day after you posted it . long story short I was able to rebuild my dad's ford backhoe pump because of you ! Even after several naysayer mechanics said it couldn't be done. And I showed them all! Thanks a million mark !
A great video, and priceless information! Gives me the confidence to at least have a look inside without too much fear of getting bitten! Thanks for the video. It's information and output like this that makes the internet what it should be!
On dismantling keep the tappets and the barrels and plungers in their original positions and ( if you have not removed the control rod and disturbed the control fork positions ) to save individual fuel calibration settings being disturbed, when the cambox is fully assembled lay the cambox face down it on it's side, level and slightly angled upward, Take the fully re-assembled fuel gallery including it's springs, lower plates and plungers and hold that on it's side to match the cambox making sure all the plunger control arms hang vertically downwards. Feed the assembly into the cambox, again making sure each plunger control arm goes into it's respective control fork, bring upright and bolt the two assemblies together.
Actually it's for a Fordson Major tractor, pre Ford. The earlier pumps had pneumatic governors, the later ones, mechanical ones. It sounds as though they're not so well known in the US? These are ten a penny in the UK, and there's any amount of Diesel service shops that would repair/re-condition these pumps. Great video - and I agree - these are great to work on!
Great video thanks! This is very interesting. I have to do the same with mine. Any tips on taking it off the engine. I believe there’s timing marks I need to be aware of? I have a 1954 MK I engine on my boat- it’s always hunted quite a bit, especially on lower revs and the other day started revving way higher than usual. then the engine wouldn’t start. I’ve checked there’s fuel getting to the pump do I want to get it off to be re-built. Any tips greatly appreciated. Ed
Attempting to get the CAV Minimec up and running on one of our tractors. Sent it out for overhaul and now it's back. After installing, no fuel from pump. It has a little spit of fuel from the injection lines, but apparently little to no pressure. Loads of fuel to the injection pump. It's a puzzle.
Tighten the lines at the pump, leave the lines cracked loose about a turn at the injectors. Push the throttle wide open (full rack). Crank the engine and when you start seeing that little "spit" coming out of the loose connection at the injector, tighten up the lines, one by one. It should start. They only "spit" a tiny bit. They will build pressure once the air is out of the line and the pump has something to push against. Let me know tomorrow how that worked out. I'm done for the night.
I just bought a Ford Major on Sunday, it was cobbled together but seems to run ok if you don't mind blue smoke. Fuel seems old, engine oil was low.(old guy said it didn't use oil, I suppose it couldn't, wasn't any to burn!) And I paid to much. First of all, thank you for doing that video, I got a lot out of it. I could use some help regarding sources for parts, and are there any cross references from USA ford to Fordson? I need a couple 3 point parts, tin, and mine has an electric fuel pump pushing fuel through the lift pump. I plan on putting a new fuel lift pump in ASAP. Any parts and or info sources would be greatly appreciated. Also, some of the people that commented had some great info, thanks for that!
in insetting the tappet tee , you put one in with the needle nose first try... anyways is it critical to what direction you put the tappet tees in being they have a slot side and a smooth side... don't want to jam them in wrong
Thanks for video. Where can I get the elements you showed. I have identical pump missing the id tag on pump. Are the larger element size 9.5 for the 5000 0r 7000 ford pump? I have a 5000 and need 4 new elements for it. Do you have any suggestions on where to buy and what the correct part number is for the 5000 pump elements? Thanks Jim
Great video thanks, I have a six cylinder Ford Dorset engine in a fishing boat with a Simms pump and I suspect the pump plungers might be sticking, I've had the injectors tested and they are all within spec, the problem manifests itself under high load at higher revs with black smoking and a popping sound from the exhaust as if you had pulled a plug lead off a gasoline engine, cheers Mike.
@@mark_osborne The valve springs are all intact and don't feel week, I've checked and re checked the clearances, its had a new camshaft and followers , there's no crankcase pressure or excessive oil use, it did have a load of new parts chucked at it 430 hours running ago and has only developed the problem after about a 150 hours running.
@@MrCrabbing Can you have someone drive the boat while you crack the lines loose at the injector (or at the pump), one at a time to isolate the effected cylinder ? You only have to turn it about 1/2 turn just so the pressurized fuel spills out instead of firing the injector.
I've built many of those pumps over the years stock and for tractor pulling. I'm very curious what your actual fuel delivery was on a test stand? Was the phasing and plunger end float set??
Don't know what you mean by phasing and plunger end float - you're speaking beyond my pay grade. It was put on a test bench at a reputable shop and the rack was adjusted to where each plunger put out the same amount of fuel which turned out to be 256 cc's. However, all I had at the time were stock delivery valves which I promptly switched out to some much larger valves supplied by Wimer when I got the pump back from the shop. Mathematically it calculates to 357 ccs based on 200/1000th's (.200 inch) of travel of the plunger inside the barrel at full rack before entering the spill port. I swapped out the delivery valves to the larger, cut valves before installing it onto the tractor. So I don't know what she's actually flowing but Wow does she flow ! My T3 Garrett is the limiting factor now. Need more air.
Hey Mark! Great video btw, very informative. Very curious to kno how do you time it or know what firing position it's in? Thanks in advance for your response. I'm currently working on a 655a.
There is a timing mark - a slash or line drawn on the drive plate (the drive plate bolts to the output shaft). That mark is TDC, meaning, when you look at the mark through the front access plate, then look at the timing marks on the flywheel, you'll be able to set the timing. IE: Set the timing on the flywheel at 26 BTC by turning the crankshaft, then line up the mark on the drive plate with the drive gear by rotating it and aligning the marks before tightening the 3 bolts. Hope this helps. If not, go to Tractor Supply and get a manual, they may be able to explain it with photos better than I can type.
Hello sir. Great video. I recently acquired a 5000 with the same pump. It leaks an excessive amount of fuel out the banjo bolt, maybe more than going into the engine. Any ideas why and how to remedy it?
hi mark great video , i have a simms 6 cylinder with very stiff rack quiet hard to move it side to side any tips on freeing it up or how free should this be with plungers in there . thanks ted
There's really only one thing that I can imagine that would make the rack hard to move and that is sticky plungers because if you disengage the plungers from the rack, it will literally flop around inside the housing. One quick thing you can check -- take the nut off the end where the rack extends out, and just take a look and make sure nothing is caught in there. Very unlikely, but just look. Beyond that, I can't think of much else you can do except pull the delivery valve holder off and pull the plungers out of the bottom of the barrels and clean things up. You should be able to do it without having to put the pump on a test stand as you won't be disturbing any settings
I ran a Simms service workshop in the U K for many years (later to be part of C A V and eventually Delphi ) it's not quite as simple as described as certain static settings need to be made during assembly, plungers and barrels are mated to each other you can't mix and match them and assembly of the barrels and valves should be in a much cleaner environment, preferably in a tray of oil. the guy did OK, he would get it together and it would run but basic assembly does include phasing each plunger in relation to the others and the plunger head clearance is critical for a smoke free performance.
Thank you so much for your intelligent comment, and bringing your expertise to the conversation. Much much appreciated. You do, and forever will know 100 times what I'll ever know about the workings of this marvelous piece of engineering. Just to be clear, this pump was put on a flow bench, and each plunger adjusted so they all put out the same fuel rate from idle to 3200 rpms and the result of this inexpensive back-yard build is nothing short of miraculous ! The machine runs absolutely fantastic, I'll bet I picked up 50 hp, it idles beautiful, and yes, it smokes like a freight train when you get on it. Check out the video of my run at Chelsea, Michigan - that's a 2nd place finish ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-izhEbq4E_r0.html
Ken Horton. If you worked for Simms and CAV in the UK y know some of the same people I do. . I've been in the business for years. Look me up on Facebook . . or however you can. I'd like to catch up with you. Steve Hanna
@@stevehanna8066 I tried facebook but got nowhere! But here's some quick answers. Simms names ,U K Branch Controller was Jimmy Bell, the Service manager was Arthur Bunker, in C A V Service Engineers Jack Warner, Jimmy James, Arthur Sheath, but I suspect you are not UK based I very much doubt you would have got involved with that side of the business, probably the export or overseas division .We had some 20 plus service depots covering the Uk and I knew most of the Managers ! On fuelling the basic Simms in line ford pump, plunger stroke was set by measuring travel from bottom of the stroke to the close of the inlet port on number one plunger and barrel, this gave the correct head clearance. Phasing of the remaing plungers was taken from the number one plunger when it had been set for travel and was done by spill cut off of the remaining plungers, alterations to phasing angle were by changing the spacer in the tappet body . Fuel calibration was taken usually at 600 rpm over 200 strokes. and for a normal 6 or 4 cyl engine would be round about 12 cc's per line. Most had pneumatic governors which controlled the top R PM and could not be adjusted, later models and Mimimec pumps had mechanical governors which had to be set on the test bench.you can always E.mail me. k.horton4@sky.com
I have a 3cyl simms pump, I ran out of fuel and now I can bleed system and tractor will run but whe you try and put a load on it the motor dies. I have to then rebleed to get going again, also I know nothing about oil in pump pls explain where to ck and how much needed to put in.
Its true that there is not a lot of information about this pump out there, I am trying to clean out our Simms pump off of our backhoe and am having trouble getting the adaptor plate off of the cam shaft so that I can get the cover off. I see that there is a key in there and have tried heating it up but cannot budge it with my puller. Is there a trick or other method for it or a special tool? Thanks for the video, very helpful.
Yeah, it's a heavy taper with a key. The only thing I can say is try letting it soak with something like PB Blaster overnight, then go back at it. Try heat again. Worst case is you get it so hot you melt the front seal but so what, that's easy to replace.
Mark, awesome video... Curious where did you source your parts from? You can still get some of the items from CNH, at a premium, but surely there are others. I've found them in the UK as that's where they were made, but what about here in the states? Also what was your cost for getting the pump flow tested and balanced? I have a Ford 5000 with an aftermarket turbo kit made by M&W gear, and the turbo doesn't spool up to give boost along with cool EGT. All has been rebuilt and/or replaced, and timing is right on the money. So I'm suspecting the pump is not putting out enough fuel.
Yes, I think you may be correct on not getting enough fuel. I paid $150 to have it put on a bench and adjusted and that included a read-out of it's capabilities at various settings. It's important you get that so you know where you are and where you're headed if you decide to install larger plungers and barrels. Got the plungers and barrels from Darwin Diesel in the UK. The shipping is super fast to the states, like 3-4 days. Jeremy Toes- manager. www.darwindiesels.com He's very easy to deal with via email, gets right back to ya and takes credit cards over the phone. But you must know what you want, I don't think he's got the ability to look stuff up. I always have part #'s when I call him. You can get a rebuild /gasket kit from Wimer in Pennsylvania and they'll know exactly what to send you once you describe the pump. Cheap too. Like $50. www.wimerfuelinjection.com. BTW, where do you have your timing set ? Does it start good ?
@@mark_osborne I will check out that shop in the UK you used. I found this company that also seems to have quite a selection of parts..injectionpumps.co.uk. So the UK route seems to be the best option. Again thanks for the video.. I was a bit hesitant on opening up the pump not knowing what to find, especially since these seems so scarce out there..but your video demystified it.
I'm curious about the oil sump in the pump(s). What happens when fuel gets into the oil when it is not changed in a timely manner? My pumps are on marine Lehman Fords (6 cylinders) and they went 200 hours before oil was changed in them. One pump had what appeared to be normal consistency, one was more like water. Both engines were running OK. Oil in both has now been changed. What would have worn in the pump with fuel in it?
It is so common for this to happen and it seems as tho these pumps can survive it. They use "roller lifters" (bushed, not needle) which seem happy to run with diluted oil and the only other thing that really needs lubrication are the bucket lifters as they ride up and down in the bore. And of course the end bearings on the shaft. But there's not much load on the shaft, so yeah, they seem to survive :-)
Good to hear because that was exactly what have happened to mine. I got the tractor recently and when changing the oil it was full of fuel. I was afraid the pump might be damaged. I have an issue with an unstable idle speed but that might be caused some leak in a fuel line. Good to have videos like these because as you said, it is difficult to find much information about this.
Ive been rebuilding these pumps for 40years now. They get a buildup of diesel in the cambox from either: The seat where the barrel sits leaking. Not common and mainly caused by the splined delivery valve holders not having tha factory alloy clamps between each one causing the holder to undo slightly. Other cause is the plungers are worn in the barrels, they might feel fine but if you lay the pump on its back once its removed and had all the oil drained, you refill it thru the side door with diesel until full just under the control rod. Put 40-80si of air i to where fuel enters the pump from the liftpump of filter and watch for air bubbles. Should be nothing but Ive had pumps where it looks like a rolling boil saucepan. Ive made a special jig to test the elements with tne head removed from the pump body including all the plunger springs. Have to be careful even with new elements. Ive tested 1000's of Minimec elements and had many new ones that are as nad as the worn ones they should be replacing. 9.5mm plungers with 300hp or bigger Sabre marine engine delivery valves gets those little Fords flying. Dont know what injector nozzles you guys use but a BDLL140S6609 wont lead you astray. Good for 275hp on a standard D-series Ford. Ford Dover injectors can be used too, their hp can go as high as 425hp.
Yes but to the people with these pumps, this is the only video of this anywhere, so I'll take the sea sickness any day. Plus this pomp is in my boat, so seasickness is no worry to me. And perfectly, the model of boat is the Groverbuilt 26, the smallest craft to go transatlantic back when it was built👍👍
I wouldn't doubt it ! I have a 33 hp 1920, bought it new in 1995. Great machine ! Let me know. I have no color in the exhaust under full load. I'm sure yours is the same way if it's bone stock.
Hey Mark, I got my 6600 with this pump on it running and it runs at full throttle. The slide is free but the throttle doesn't adjust down. I tore the pump apart and it seems that the governor isn't pushing the shaft forward when it's running. Any ideas what it could be?
To my knowledge "smoke screw" is an acronym for "fuel screw" because if you turn it out too far, you'll get smoke out the exhaust (un-burnt fuel). Given that, the fuel screw is on top near the front of the pump, it takes a 1/2 wrench, you loosen the nut, then back the screw out (or in) accordingly. Tighten up the nut and you are done.
Hi Mark. Interesting movie! My neighbor has a problem with Simm's three cyl pump. When you open the cover you can see that one of the lifters does not move up and down properly when running the start motor. Could it be because a broken camshaft bearing?
Great video Sir, l have a ford 7700 that has a minimek pump that will only go full throttle (runaway engine). The linkage is fine to this pump and I had a hired hand tell me he ran the tractor out of diesel and then after refueling he tried to restart it with starting fluid. The tractor back fired after a while and then started but it never can idle down. He cut the fuel to turn it off but now it will only run full speed. Any thoughts out there? Thanks
Take the side cover off and see if the rack is free, it should move easily from right to left if your throttle is in the idle position. - Full right is idle, left is full throttle. Go from there. Let me know.
Howdy again Mr. Osborne I finally got around to removing the side cover and it is definitely stuck. I even tried tapping on it and wound loosening the hex screws where tapped on it.
Hi mark, when bleeding my pump and cracking the injector nut, it ended up loosening the housing which holds the small plunger . Not its leaks around the base. What type of sealant do you use for this ?
Scroll to 9:32 in the video. Are you saying the part I have in my hand is leaking where it threads into the housing ? and if not, clarify by showing me in my video an example of the part you say is leaking.
@@rikkimcguire8785 Well yes, there is a special plastic O-Ring that goes under the delivery valve. Did you buy a kit ? It's that pure white ring, there will be 4 (or 6) in the kit. Also, this actually takes a special socket but I'm sure by the looks of what I see, a lot of people grab those delivery valves with vice grips
Hello Mark, I have a Simms Pump, P4784 its for a 6 cylinder Ford 8000 farm tractor. I need to order a rebuild kit for this pump including plungers & barrels. Would you care to share with me where you ordered your rebuild kit for your Simms pump from? Thank you!
I did not order a rebuild kit. The gasket and seal set came from Wimer Fuel Injection in Pennsylvania. As far as the plungers and barrels, I dug around until I found a part # that matched the 9.5 mm that I was looking for then contacted Darwin Diesel in the UK. They have a website.
Thats a Minimec pump made by Simms in the Uk originally then Lucas CAV Use the same oil as you use in the engine, going heavier can lead to slow idle and even hunting or unstable oil until the oil becomes more fluid.
I do a lot of those pumps, not for your application but mostly marine. Bulletproof, simple. Change bearings to taper roller. Big elements and d/valves, permanent bleed in head of pump where a bleed screw normally sits, 20+psi inlet fuel pressure. Brilliant little unit.
Hi, i got a cav engine in my backhoe digger which decided suddenly not to work anymore. The rack is moving, the lifters are going up and down and I got diesel going to the pump inlet. However it does not give a single drop any of the injectors. Are the elements worn out? All at the same time??
@@bjrnericwang2093 Hi. Do you have a number off the injector pump? What make and model engine? If you can see the lifters going up and down are the springs going up and down as well? If the rack is moving then the plungers should be as well, only other possible thing may be all the delivery valves are seized closed. Highly unlikely that all 4 or 6 of the plungers have worn to the point of not being able to pump at all. Does your pump have a cold start or excess fuel button? If so push it in and the rack should go even further and see if it pumps at that
@@bjrnericwang2093 If the plungers wear only a certain amount then the pump body normally fills up with diesel and if an overflow is fitted then it will drip out of that pipe. Does depend on pump type as if its a late model Ford Dover/Cargo that has its injector pump bolted to timing cover, these pumps have a hole in them that will let excess oil and fuel into the engines crankcase. If the pump is shaft driven then fuel/oil will leak onto yhe ground. If you have a very old vaccuum governor engine then it too should overflow onto the ground
i have a simms like that on my 5000, and i want to turn up the fuel for lil extra hp, can u explain how i do that? where the adjustment screw is located
Scroll to 1:07 . Look at my index finger, the side of it is touching a screw with a lock nut. Break the lock nut free with a 1/2 box wrench, then take a screw driver and stick it into the slot on the top of that screw and rotate it counter-clockwise until it stops. Then, while holding the screw with the screw driver, wind the lock nut down until it tightens up against the housing. You have just maxed-out your fuel :-)
Hello sir. Where did you buy the new plungers? I think it is air in the system but in case the pump is broken i need to know where to get parts. Thank you sir. Subbed and liked.
Hi, I'm from Venezuela thanks so much for the video, but I need your help one more, can you tell me the part number of the elements that you bought? I need those exactly 9 1/2... And if you can tell me where I can get the part numbers of all the pieces... Thanks again and sorry for my English
The element number (plunger and barrel) is 512506-70 and it may cross to a 503059 . Contact Darwin Diesels in the UK email sales@darwindiesels.com . My contact at the time was a guy named Jeremy - you can put attention Jeremy in the email. They are very good about getting back to you. Tell him Mark Osborne from Michigan sent you.
@@gillianvandervelpen2730 The screw right on top of the pump, loosen the lock nut, then turn it counter clockwise, backing the screw out, then tighten the lock nut
I have a 655A ford backhoe completely dissasembled.can't find info on timing to include the simms pump.service manual does not show pump timing.any help would be appreciated
Do you know about the little window that opens on the bell-housing so you can see the marks on the flywheel ? and do you know about the scribe line on the drive plate that bolts to the pump shaft ? and do you know how you can leave the 3 bolts loose that attach the pump's drive plate to the gear ?
@@mark_osborne He hasn't put the plate and flywheel back on yet,I told him to start there.Does the pump gear have to line up with something or just the mark on the plate and pump housing?
@@timlesperance3039 Yes the line on the plate lines up with the mark on the pump before you bolt the pump in place. Also, take the little cover off the other end of the pump. You'll see a kerf cut into the pump camshaft and an arrow in the aluminum pump housing. Keep that lined up. (The timing gears also have marks that align when your at TDC compression) Then install the 3 bolts in that secure the pump drive plate to the gear, leaving them a bit loose until you get your timing mark set at the flywheel, then make sure the kerf on the end of the pump shaft still lines with the arrow, then tighten up the 3 drive plate bolts and you're done !
@@timlesperance3039 Yes the injector pump gear has marks on it, along with the idler gear and crankshaft gear- they all need to be aligned. Did you have the timing cover off and disturb the gears ?
I personally use synthetic rear end oil 75W-90 from O'Rielly, it's inexpensive and awesome oil. Be sure to check for fuel intrusion every so often by removing the upper plug on the side of the pump, if oil comes spilling out, some fuel is making it's way past the plunger and barrel. If that's the case, get on a regular schedule of changing the oil :-)
Adjust the throttle so it pulls harder on the pump arm. If you need a lot more rotation speed the pump must come apart and the weights need to be lightened
Look out. The smokes going to roll lol. Every pump has its own design. Work on same principal. Plungers and barrel don't last like they once did. Gahl up
yup, these are Lucas elements, so hopefully they'll last, plus I run added lubricant :-) That BioDiesel is really bad, the guys running high concentrations of Bio in their pulling tractors give Columbus Diesel a LOT of fresh work every season- but they do it for the horsepower
@@royamberg9177 Really. I don't know much about it except for what I hear around the pulling circuit. They've even go so far as to start the engines on pump diesel, switch to Bio, then switch back to pump diesel after the pull in attempt to get the pumps to 'live'.... but I have no idea what 'bio' they are running, meaning, the base component. But I will ask.
