So, Should We Stop Saying JRPG? (The Jimquisition) 

My favourite part of the weird habit people tend to have of conflating "Action RPG" with "Western RPG" is that Falcom (a Japanese developer) are generally agreed to have been the ones to create the first Action RPG.

I was there for the Cornflake Homunculous's inception, and am both ecstatic and nauseated to be here for its return.

That whole panel just laughing on as the other dev stood there like that just gave me all the bad feels 😭

What is weird is how Japan kept the western crpg dungeon crawler alive when it was all but abandoned in the west. Wizardry is huge over there and they took the mantle for the franchise. Series such as megaten (shin megami tensei) still has that DNA there and it dates back to the old apple II days. Dragon quest and the early FF games are also basically a Japanese take on Ultima.

I think the issue is some people think of JRPG as a Genre, with genre tropes and rules, and others think of JRPG as a game made in Japan. And both groups go into the conversation assuming whatever one they believe is what everybody believes.

I didn't even know the term "JRPG" had such a negative stigma I honestly used it affectionately towards those games I loved them.

Remembering that 2008 early 2010s the biggest thing that frustrated me was the assertion that turn based combat as a whole was "bad design". I love turn based combat, I like games like that that I can just chill out with so the zeitgeist turning against it felt alienating to me.

I had always assumed “jrpg” was like “rougelike” or “Metroidvania.” A simple reference to the original games that inspired the genre. Games inspired by, evolved from, or with similar elements to those classic Japanese RPGs are JRPGs. Not necessarily ones made in Japan.

If we go purely by how people in Japan call these RPGs (ターン制, ta-nsei, or turn based), then yes, turn based seems to be a good term. Not to mention we already define plenty of genres by what kind of gameplay we can expect. Then again, considering we use the bloody camera position for genre definition as well, character RPG could work.

I didn't actually realise JRPG had a (not so distant) history as a term of derision. I've always associated it with generally character driven, turn based games, and thought JRPG was the accepted nomenclature because Japanese developers had popularised that kind of design. Given that it's a very loaded phrase for said developers, I'm more than willing to punt it into the sea. RPG is fine by itself, and can be modified with "action" or "turn based" or whathaveyou as the situation requires.

I had no idea this was the context behind it. I rarely, if ever, enjoy western/ action/ whatever RPGs and used JRPG as a way of describing the games that I DID like. This explains so much about Squeenix.

I want an increasing series about the Sterling basement as it slowly escalates into a janky Barbarian.

Genre isn't binary, it's more vibes based. It's weird how many wildly different games all come under the RPG umbrella

A lot of people don’t realize that genre wise a lot of content from japan struggles with identity and can’t really be properly defined in our genres

Party/Team RPG is probably the way to go for me. The biggest difference has always been whether you control a single character, whether nameless or someone like Geralt, or you are controlling/customising a party of characters, either turned based or real time action.

I always assumed that they were called JRPGs because Japan was just where that particular turn based RPG style originated from

15 years ago? We were calling RPGs made in Japan JRPGs in the 90s... It was how we knew how a game would play. Cringe cutscenes and dialog, turn-based combat, 80 hours to complete. You know, what you want in a good RPG. I guess we could call them SquEnix games? That feels even more derogatory, tbh. Oh well. I can not say it, anymore. No biggie. Japanese? No! This is a region-free story that won't seem weird to western sensibilities at all. We promise, she's 18. Promise.

I'm still amazed that Lost Odyssey hasn't gotten a PC port. It would be perfect for Game Pass on PC. I have to admit that I had never given consideration to the fact that JRPG could be used as a negative thing, because for the past 30+ years I've adored them, starting with the original Final Fantasy. I've used the term to describe games not made in Japan, because like JSS said, something like Chained Echoes is most definitely one if we're going by the standards of it. I had no idea Japanese developers ever had issues with it, but now that I see the comments from Phil fucking Fish of all people (and Jonathan Blow, of course) I get it and I feel kinda shitty for having helped propogate the term, even if it was coming from a place of love, like I'm sure it has for a bunch of other gamers. It's such an easy shorthand now that it could be difficult to drop it, but having seen that it literally made a Japanese developer physically uncomfortable, I don't see how I could keep using it even in good faith. Thanks for this video, JSS - this was very enlightening to me.

Jrpg could be used as Japanese -Style Role Playing Game. It gives people still the proper expectations without fully dropping the term. It's like rogue-likes and Metroidvanias not being perfect labels but allows a good point of reference. Because even games like Tales of Symphonia and Final Fantasy X play very different, they still have very similar aspects running throughout them.

Pretty much I always used JRPG to describe those games favorably but my rule of thumb is regardless of how I mean to use a word or phrase as soon as I find out it is hurting someone else I'll stop using it because it is more important to not hurt other people.

So many people saying they've never considered "JRPG" as derogitave as through the lens of their own experiences. The thing everyone their mother is out-right ignoring or just plain glossed over, is how Yoshi-P qualified the issue by saying it was within the journalism/development side of things. And in _that_ case, it _absolutely_ was used in a derogatory way. I'm old enough to remember the myriad IGN/GameSpot/Name your mainstream gaming "journalism" spot, and the term "JRPG" was used to clown on that type of game. This was especially true 20-15 years ago, the time period Yoshi-P specifically gave. To all those saying "I've never heard of this before", it's because you were in your own personal cultural bubbles where it _wasn't_ derogatory. Fact of the matter is, it absolutely was outside of those bubbles. "JRPG" was absolutely a common way to slap down any RPG coming out of Japan at the time, and it's only _now_ that that phrase has lost its derogatory meaning. It may not be derogatory to _you,_ but the Japanese developers certainly felt that way. And I would think the people it's targeting have a bit more of a sense of what it felt like that some random white chumps who feel the need to rewrite history on this matter.

Idk, just because a few D bags dump on jrpgs and Japanese people doesn't mean the term is inherently derogatory. It's like saying K-pop or Italian food is derogatory. Not liking a certain genre doesn't make racist unless you specifically don't like it because of the race of the people who made it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it's how you express it and where it comes from that makes the difference. Bottom line, I think the term is fine.

TV Tropes uses the term/phrase "Eastern RPG" to describe games we've typically called JRPG's. It still refers to the same RPG "style" that came from Japan but it also acknowledges the fact that countries like China & the Koreas are getting in on it. TV Tropes has also listed a decent number of indie titles & even some "AAA" titles as "Eastern RPG's" because they follow the same "style." They don't discriminate when it comes to things like genre! I think some of the hate JRPG's got stemmed from the "console wars," particularly the "console gaming vs. PC gaming" war! PC gamers used to LOVE bragging about how Western RPG's AKA CRPG's were "better" by comparison! Those idiots seemed to have stopped bragging for the most part now that most CRPG's are getting console ports! I do think that colonialism & (at times) racism have ALSO played a part when it comes to weirdos who angrily rant about JRPG's. I'm also glad that idiots like Phil Fish are no longer involved in gaming as well. He deserved to be called out for his toxic attitude!

For the terms for RPGs, it is hard to use character RPG, since that doesn't really differentiate between RPG styles. For example, a character RPG, would effectively describe the WItcher trilogy, The Last Remnant, Shiness: The Lightning Kingdom, Rune Factory, and many others. Overall the current labels help to distinguish content or item categories that are on a class of their own. For example, some of the best pizza type, is NY pizza, or NY style pizza, which is so iconic that every other country on earth will have their own take on NY style pizza, in addition to options serving plain NY style pizza.

This is the type of content you are absolutely at your best with! Fantastic episode!

"JRPG" first entered popular parlance when Final Fantasy VII took the world by storm. Same period saw "manga" and "anime" enter Western languages (after/alongside brief stints of "J-comics" and "J-animation/Japanimation") as terms distinctly referring to Japanese comics and animation, respectively. If anything, it was treated as a mark of quality at the time, particularly for storytelling. Also, "action JRPG" is (or at least was) very much in use. Also "J-drama", "J-pop", and "J-rock" etc., all of which had a chance as worldwide phenomena, too, but were instead jealously guarded by the studios/labels, leaving non-Asian markets wide open for the boom of K-pop and K-dramas a little over a decade later, both of which originally directly inspired by their Japanese counterparts. The few J-rock bands that do Western tours, do so because the artists themselves (many of whom have a parent from a Western country) were pushing for it against the suits' resistance. There've always been "too cool for popular stuff" guys deriding all Japanese media for their "girly boys" and teenage heroes (as if either of the two, particularly the latter, had been alien to Western stories; I blame rough and tough Hollywood action heroes for that misconception), but they were distinctly in the minority in the early '00s. Yes, late '00s to early '10s saw a lot of hate for turn-based games for being "outdated", which Japanese devs sort of got the brunt of, as by then Western "AAA" publishers had already removed anything that wasn't solidly in the action corner, but some of the other criticisms were valid takes. And I'm utterly horrified by a rise of ostensibly progressive youths, who are just as "vanilla-only, preferably nothing sexual at all" as any radfem or theofascist and virtually spit on Japan(ese) for being "weird" and "not normal". But my using "JRPG" has zero to do with any such vile antics. Why "Japanese" vs. "Western"? Because games by US/CA, European, and AU developers were commonly aimed at all those markets (and increasingly catering specifically only to US mainstream tastes, leading to the decline of several genres only big in other countries) and had a really hard time breaking into Japan, and Japanese developers were similarly keeping many top franchises purely domestic. And most importantly, that's all there was. South Korea and Taiwan were still pretty new as markets with high income, and China had barely started emerging, while the rest of the world is still getting treated like a wasteland. And on the dev side, I have advocated for "Eastern RPG" before, but barely any (albeit not zero) from these three countries have released anything but gacha shovelware, which I really don't want to honor by calling them (E)RPGs. Finally, frankly, hypocrisy much, Yoshida-san? In Japan "animation", "anime", "comics", and "manga" all technically cover everything regardless of country of origin, and yet also all have an overt expectation of referring specifically to Japanese works, with American animation and comics only ever getting talked about as "ameani" and "amecomi".

Nowadays people just put a silencer over their prejudice by saying something is "too anime" when they mean to say "too Japanese", and it's not really something exclusive to games media either.

Sorry for the double post, but now that I have a little more time to elaborate, I want to go into the details about what I meant by Western vs. Eastern style of writing. (The last post was written a mite hastily due to the fact I was typing it during a work break.) So...let's talk about west vs. east story writing. Or rather... Let's talk about stories with external conflict vs. stories with internal conflict. Heroes fighting literal dragons vs. heroes fighting figurative ones. Western style stories, as well as Western RPGs, typically have the main character dealing with outside forces in some way. The bandit coming in and causing trouble in Deadwood...a terrorist taking over the Nakatomi Tower...all of these represent a literal issue that the protagonist has to deal with and try to overcome. As such, the protagonist could be anyone...someone who finds themself caught in the middle of the conflict. As such, a good number of western style RPGs also have blank slates for characters as anyone could be the hero in this scenario. You see this in likes of Elder Scrolls games, From Software games, and even Hotline Miami. You get to mold the character and make the choices, but you really have no personal stake in all this. You may also see some form of morality system in such RPGs and thus your choices also mold the way the other characters react to you. Eastern style stories, on the other hand, tend to deal with internal conflicts. The characters still have a specific goal, but they also have a personal reason for getting involved. The antagonist has caused direct harm or their actions have directly affected you in some way. This is mainly why Eastern style RPGs tend to have you play a very specific character. Someone whose look and/or background has been determined from the start and tends to maintain a very specific personality and/or ethic throughout the game. Even Eastern RPGs where you do create your own characters, like the first Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest IX, still have you start with a predetermined origin. You are a Warrior of Light for Final Fantasy or you are a fallen angel in Dragon Quest IX. As such, the characters in such games tend to have personal goals and may even face personal conflicts throughout the game. Lucca's past regarding what happened to her mother in Chrono Trigger or the immortality of Lost Odyssey's main character come to mind. Again, I really can't do this topic a lot of justice. Like I said in the other post, you should really look at Literature Devil's video on Western Storytelling vs. Eastern Storytelling. That should give you a lot better insight into this and even some insight as to the differences in the two RPGs. Also, like I said, the term JRPG should probably be retired as it is a mite reductive and doesn't really cover the full spectrum of writing styles in the east. Again...just my two Zenny on the subject.

D-did James say that neither Britain nor America have cultures of thier own? I know its far far from the point of this video but.... uhh huh? Its an incredibly racist and culturally insensitive thing to say in a video about maaaybe not looking on certain cultures as "lesser"

On PC the comparison was mainly between ARPG (action), CRPG (computerized tabletop RPG), and latterly MMO (Moo RPG made for cows and other ruminants). Western RPG was never really a thing until the console warriors took over when they first "invented" RPGs not made in Japan around the XBox era.

It has to do with what people grow up with and what people find "mainstream". For example there's tons of people who hypocritically are like "I Hate Anime or All anime is trash" and yet they love Dragon Ball and Pokemon, but they're such popular and mainstream series that they almost don't put them in the same ballpark. I've also thought how it's so strange how Western culture criticizes anime as being "weird" but don't realize that when you really get down to it and examine some Western properties like say a grown man who dress up as a bat or a spider with their underwear exposed but it's considered more normal and acceptable because it's such a world wide mainstream thing.

Ah Phil Fish, a modern day pillar of level headed critique and a champion of taking criticism.../s

I completely disagree with many takes in this video. We define genres to classify experiences that are similar. We do this with music, books, movies and so on. When a genre becomes too broad, we start dividing it into subgenres. This is how JRPG was invented. All JRPGs are RPGs, but not the other way around. Japanese developers made rpgs that gave a completely different experience to any other RPGs, so like any other culturally unique take on a genre, we named it for its origin. Do note that the subgenre shouldn't apply to every RPG from Japan. Only the ones that follow the style of the original JRPG format. Even the western game Septerra Core was categorized as a JRPG back in the day. In the end, what matters is that if somone wants to play a traditional CRPG, they don't want dark souls or undertale. And if I want a traditional JRPG, I'll play Octopath Traveller or something in that style, not FF15.

I really hope this signals the return of the Cornflake Homunculus. It's been too long since we've been blessed by its presence

I really appreciate this episode. I’ve been watching every episode because sterling deserves the respect, but they can often cover emotionally draining subject matter. This is a solid game centric discussion.

I will never stop using "JRPG", it's not a pergorative, never has been in my life. I'll never stop using the ok hand sign. I don't live my life changing my language because people I don't know, have never met, and don't respect say I meant something I didn't.

I felt this same way about the term “J-Rock” back when Japanese language music was gaining more popularity in Europe, Latin America, and NA. Like the only similarity was the language/country of origin and while there were some unique Japanese cultural ways of writing music, a lot of times bands with completely unrelated sounds were lumped together. It’s like if I took Neutral Milk Hotel and Imagine Dragons and put them in a concert together and called them “American Rock” and expected the same people to like them. The “J” signifier always had a vague stigma about it because it implied it was “lesser” music unlike “good” rock and was associated with anime and other art forms deemed weird or less serious to a western tastes. And certain bands that met the Western standards of sound, aesthetic, and artistic “seriousness” were excluded from the category.

I’ve been using “turn based rpg” when talking about games cuz it immediately conveys the gameplay style

All this is reminding that from my personal experience (my girlfriend is Japanese) is that most "weeb" types not only don't actually k ow anything about real life Japan, but don't seem to want to either.

That negative sentiment of modernity was more broadly aimed at turn-based RPGs and not just JRPGs. The most notable reason that this is important is because of the existence of CRPGs, traditionally western turn-based RPGs, which go confusingly unmentioned in this video. I always perceived the negative take on turn-based as having been a AAA marketing scheme in much the same way that "live service / multiplayer are the future, single-player games are dead" was pushed until recently by EA and others. Of course JRPGs were almost always single-player as well, so it seems like the hate for JRPGs was manufactured from the same source to me. Having now seen the clip with Fish, it's clear that some people used this to target Japanese developers. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

It was in the NES/SNES era we didn't get the 'JRPG' stuff released in PAL/NSTC regions. It was never a prerogative, just a by word for menu selecting for attack RPGs. Ive always loved them and I'm sorry if using the term was ever offensive to anyone

Maybe Japanese-Style RPG would be a better fit? It's pretty explainatory, as it is a style originated in Japan (as much as it was inspired by early western RPGs like Ultima and Wizardry). I don't think simply calling them "trun based RPGs" is good though, because even Japanese games moved away from pure turn-based combat for a good while. Dragon Quest 8, which came out for the PS2, was called old-fashioned on release for being a pure, traditional, turn-based game. From the Mana series, to modern Final Fantasy, and a whole lot of 00's and 10's Japanese RPGs, they had a lot of real time combat games. Furthermore, there are plenty of turn-based western RPGs too, both old and new. The aforementioned Ultima and Wizardry games, and other early games like Wasteland and the golden box D&D games. The first two installments in the Fallout series were also turn based. Western RPGs did seem to lose all interest on turn based combat after Diablo for some years, but then came Divinity: Original Sin and brought that back. Now we're seeing more and more western RPGs go for turn based. Even Pillars of Eternity, which even made an april fool's joke once about being turn-based has backpedalled and made this type of combat an option that you can toggle on the second game.

It's a category for things that share very similar attributes, just like all categories do. It's not intrinsically prejudice if there's no prejudgment involved. It's not offensive or derogatory if it simply describes an art style, or character clichés, or cartoon birderline-pr0n, etc.. Please employ common sense here everyone - it is not offensive to be similar to other things. We can't all be infinitely so unique nobody possesses any traits of any other person, that's absurd. It's not wrong to group things together, it's wrong to judge things based on their grouping. It's subtle, but hopefully we can all see the difference.

Was getting a bit worried, should not have done though. Steph always pulls through.

How about we call them "Anime RPGs" because that's what I always picture them being anyways?

JRPG isnt derogatory, its just a category of game style thats been in use at least since the 16bit days. If theres a town to save, random turn based combat and lots of text boxes, overworlds and anime style characters then its a JRPG. Doesn't matter if it wasn't developed in Japan, its a JRPG if it looks like one. Like Cornish pasties not made in Cornwall, its the style and design that makes the label, not the source country. I dont much care for traditional JRPG`s, the random battles always come across as unfair and the equivalent of leaps of faith in platform games, i.e. you cant plan ahead. I have however never heard JRPG used in a negative way the way this developer thinks it is. The guy on that panel was pretty rude though, what a cock.

It's the same as calling japanese cartoons anime, in Japan both western and japanese cartoons are called anime, we only call japanese cartoons anime. Don't see the problem with calling them that as long as you're not talking to a japanese person.

I grew up thinking they separated the terms RPG to JRPG because you knew you'd be getting quality stuff if it came from Japan. Now that I'm older I can definitely see it...

This video has taught me a lot of things and got me to realize a few things. The biggest one being that I should probably play Lost Odyssey.

I've never heard anyone in my entire life consider the idea that JRPG is a derogatory term... but that panel was disgusting.

When I was a kid, I was so sheltered, and internet culture was so in its infancy, that I had no standard words for anything I experienced in games. As a small child, I thought ALL video games were mascot platformers like Mario or sonic... the notion of anything else had never occurred to me... until mom got me a PS1, and a demo disc containing "Legend of Dragoon". A narrative-focused, dialogue-heavy game blew my little mind. "It's like a game that's also a book!" So, a few weeks later, when I saw a copy of Final Fantasy 8 sitting in a discount bin, I got excited by how many discs it was. "That must be one of those book games!!" I declared, and I spent my allowance on it... a lifelong love of the genre followed. To this day, to myself, I still call the genre "Book games" when talking to myself... childish and goofy though it is. 🤣

Always drove me absolutely insane when games journalists started just constantly ragging on my favourite genre and seemingly with just the most ridiculous complaints. The genre has only really just started to recover the last few years but I'm still dreading the thought that Dragon Quest XII might be going the action game route.

Even knowing that they are going to catch HUGE shits, just, all of them, from everywhere, for even attempting to say anything on this, they're just ... doing this, and owning it, and JSS is fucking amazing.

That panel... Holy shit. Hearing "he apologized" does nothing. Fish said that with a genuine, seething hatred for Japanese people and their art. Now I'm not feeling so bad that Fez 2 was cancelled.

This is like the dark mirror of the term "anime." Since "cartoons" were seen as kiddy for the longest time but anime was cool, edgy and mature, you have fans and animators outside of Japan clamoring for the "anime" label on their more serious, action-oriented shows.

Personally I've always associated JRPG as Japanese style RPG, that's often turn based, story driven, with often stylized open worlds and monsters that often look like moving paintings. Basically games that were styled after the FF series. While FF wasn't toe first of its kind, it managed to really bring the style more mainstream. It was just a game style to me. I had no idea about how Japanese game creators were treated with uppity dismissal back then

Honestly the discourse on this has been really interesting and I appreciate your contribution to it. When I first watched Skill Up's video I initially thought certainly this was an over reaction right? Watching more stuff from the past, listening to others talk about it, and reading about this more it seems pretty clear that the people that started it really did mean it as a derision. I'm going to work to retire the term from my vocabulary.

If it wasn't made in the RPG region of Japan, it has to be called a "Sparkling Turn-Based Combat Game"

I really wanna see a JRPG alignment chart now. Chaotic evil would be like "Disco Elysium is a jrpg" I guess

Thank god someone still remembers Lost Odyssey, and how damn good it was. That is a game I would welcome a remake of.

Wow, Phil Fish and Jonathan Blow are even bigger tools than I thought, and I thought they were pretty massive tools to begin with. I never twigged to "JRPG" being negative, because I never stopped loving them, to the point where I'm trying to make my own RPGs in that style.

I'm here to fulfill my quota of standing up and applauding whenever SOMEONE ELSE REMEMBERS THAT LOST ODYSSEY FUCKING EXISTED AND IT WAS BEAUTIFUL

The pokemon example is funny because when I finished playing legend arceus my first thought was "man I wish pokemon was a *proper* jrpg" while mentally comparing it to like, a tales game story wise where you could make more choices. It would probably make more sense to break it down by main characteristics than use jrpg because i think what I was going for was roughly "pokemon is a simple turn based rpg I want more character rpg bits"? Like jrpg means something but it is still really damn varied on a level that it becomes a mediocre descriptive term.

The distinction was made back in the olden times of the 1990s, when the Japan focused on story based dungeon crawlers, while western companies were trending towards ambitious open-ended tabletop simulators. This ambition, in particular, fueled the sense of superiority of adopters of the Western games, who felt their games were more complex and true to the tabletop spirit, and therefore better. Nowadays? Many of the hallmark elements of old JRPGs, like gradual stat grinding and character skill customization, have seeped into basically every genre. The games themselves evolved, with Final Fantasy being now basically unrecognizable by the old definition. Meanwhile, in the West, the old tabletop simulator genre has largely been superseded by the Immersive Sim and Sandbox trends. Games still calling themselves "RPG" in the west have also incorporated elements of linear storytelling that used to be a "JRPG" staple.

I think this might be one of my favourite Jimquisition episodes in a long time. Just an earnest conversation about gaming culture that gets us to examine something a lot of us took for granted and taking note of its history to consider if it's worth holding onto in the modern age. Plus, looking forward to seeing the Homunculus escape.

As soon as the feelings of Japanese developers were pointed out regarding the term I thought, "oh yeah, that makes sense, I'll stop saying JRPG." Then I tried to talk about Harvestella and how the combat and story elements of the game made me nostalgic for a certain type of game I grew up with, and I realized I was at a loss for how to describe them without using the term "JRPG". There were elements of the story and gameplay that felt familiar, but it was hard for me to lump them under a single banner. It's an interesting problem because it illustrates that the things we've called "JRPGs" are actually quite different from each other in a lot of ways, but myself and many other gamers were drawn to Japanese titles in general over Western ones. Maybe I'm just a weeb, but growing up (and still to this day, to a lesser degree) I found myself very put off by the gritty dudebro marketing of a lot of games, ESPECIALLY "western rpgs", despite the fact that character creation, world exploration, and narrative were the things I looked for most in gaming. I feel like the rise of indie developers has eased up this feeling of "otherness" that I always felt from mainstream western titles, but back in the day it was Japanese-developed games. They were the only titles that seemed to escape the marketing trends that told me "there is no place for you here, go and play with your dolls". Still, I think it's well worthwhile and makes a lot of sense to break down "JRPGs" into descriptive genres rather than define them by their country of origin, especially given the derogatory way that it's been used.

I was blissfully unaware of its use as a nasty shorthand by people, so this whole thing has been eye opening to say the least.

Like other folks in these comments, I always used the term affectionately! It does seem much more obvious why Japanese developers would feel differently, now that I've thought about it more. You've done me a service with this one, Steph! I won't be using it any longer. That panel made me cringe with embarrassment.

The idea that Japan is uniquely weird drives me up a wall. Imagine watching an episode of Rick & Marty without the pop culture background to clock all the references. I mean, I remember what Adult Swim was like in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Every country has its own “weird media” and it’s usually rooted in that country’s cultural background or a deliberate transgression of cultural norms. The home country of Tim & Eric does not get to call anyone else weird.

Personally I'm going to shift to calling them "Dragonquest-likes," a storied genre-naming convention that no-one will ever complain about!

Love that intro. Your title raises an interesting point tbh, I've never role-played the Japanese

I don't even care where this goes. The Black Betty thing is too good. Stephanie, you are a treasure.

So this is why we ended up with all these half baked Westernised entries into really good Japanese game series in the mid to late 2000s. Absolutely infuriating seeing this in retrospect. I've always personally seen JRPG as an indicator that I'm probably going to find something specific that will scratch a particular itch but now I see it in this light it makes me feel a bit less comfortable in using the term given how it resonates with some Japanese developers.

Spaghetti western was the term created by american critics to describe Italian westerns, initially as a dig but eventually it was embraced. But since you see many other countries mimicing the aesthetic you don't hear the term much anymore

Also about Naoki Yoshida, he's actually mentioned in the past that he's pro Trans Rights and he's all around just an awesome dude. He rescued FF14 from being almost another failed MMO to being top of the food chain. I have mad respect for this man.

Speaking as someone who's pushing 50, I must have been AMAZINGLY oblivious to the period when RPGs coming out of Japan were disliked, ridiculed or held in contempt. I genuinely don't remember it. Then again, I've been a fan of...I like turn-based rpgs for a term...I've been a fan of that genre since original Final Fantasy, so maybe my fandom insulated me from whatever weird backlash was going on?

At the time fallout, oblivion, mass effect and other western rpgs were preferable because it gave players the choice to choose their own adventure. Game reviewers and gamers criticized Japanese rpgs at the time for not catching up with the trend or adapting. But now I think both genres are in a space where they are appreciated for the uniqueness. Its no longer a pariah to have either style of gameplay. I think that's largely due to the fact bethesda, bioware, and others have had many flaws since then in their future titles, which exposed the weakness of having free choice in games

I would push back against "character rpg" as terminology mostly because 'crpg' or "computer rpg" is an existing term. Originally it was referred to all electronic rpgs, back when that was novel enough to need distinction, but now it mostly refers to games that ape the tabletop rpg experience. Baldurs gate, wrath of the righteous, tyranny, etc. Stuff that has big focus on the actual playing a role part of the genre

I'm 3 mins in and the grumbling in the murder basement got my hopes up for the Cornflake Homunculus.

This made me think a lot about the whole "Avatar isn't an anime" debacle from a while back, how we call anime the animation kind of style but refuse to apply it to ones that use similar styles outside of Japan.

there was an attack on RPG and JRPG in particular in the 2000-2010 (I never saw a point of the diferenciator to be honest) and I feel that it was the prototype of the "single plater games are dead" discourse that came later

Back in the day to me JRPG meant it was a really good turn based RPG, and holy hell do I miss those style games I miss the old JRPGs they were the best.

JRPG for me never had a negative connotation. When I was in my teens that term was the bar for excellence and with the developers I followed I knew I was getting an experience that not only would I love, but had charm, long and engaging stories along with gripping combat but also something familiar. Those games took me away from the real world and transported me to fantastical worlds where I could lose myself. I'm from the UK so I'm not Japanese and so probably have no right on the term 'JRPG' but those development teams were my childhood and even now into my adult life I love them for what they do. On a side note, but really the main point. Lost Odyssey was the fucking tits.

JRPG is just like "German board game" or "Eurogame." It's a description of a specific type of game with specific elements predominately found in those games. Not all Eruogames are made in Europe just like not all JRPGs are made in Japan.

I had always felt the term "JRPG" was an homage to the creators and groundbreakers of that specific style of game. It's been far too broadly applied in the modern day, but I never got the sense it was seen as derogatory or disparaging. This video made me aware of a completely different side of the term.

The thing to note about Michael Koji Fox is that he was born in the US and grew up in Japan. He is as American as he is Japanese (via dual citizenship as his mother is Japanese and father is American). So when he speaks of the topic of RPGs, he is unique in that he can literally come from BOTH cultures/camps.

Whenever i heard jrpg the first thing in my mind was always "oh so its gonna be good then" and more often than not i was right. Jrpg to me was a mark of quality and being the rpg experience of choice. Never realized it was a slur.

"There are good American games, and then there's everything Ubisoft puts out" 🤣 I wasn't ready for the shade, but I love it.

I guess I'm old enough to live in a bubble where JRPG never had any negative or derogatory connotations. But I grew up on them. For a few decades, they were my favorite thing. Bravely Default 2 was the last JRPG that I played that I consider that specific style. It is rather strange that the terminology only applies to that type of game... I don't know. I have definitely played Japanese RPGs that aren't what I would call JRPGs. So, we need a new phrase. New words. I'm still using metroidvania as a term, tho. It's embedded in my brain.

I like the term party-based strategy games for what's traditionally jrpgs. I always thought it was a little weird that final fantasy and the like are singled out as "role-playing" outside of the first and third games since the characters you're controlling have their own agency and character. I feel the likes of FF9 closer to a strategy game since you have no input into how the story proceeds, your input is relegated to the battles. Y'know, the strategic part of the game.

I have never commented before but this was deeply personal. I grew up on jrpgs, some of my first games were Pokémon on my Gameboy color, final fantasy games were the benchmark I compared every other game to , and it was because they were the best and everything else had to strive to be as good. To me growing up in the 90s and 2000s jrpg was a label that instantly meant a high quality experience. I never heard of it being used in a negative light. Now this is anecdotal and my own personal experience, but it actually upset me to hear that a term that for me always had a most positive connotation was used to portray the opposite

The Twitter response to this issue thus far has given us more mask off moments than the entire Mission Impossible franchise.

I always wondered what happened to this genre of game and wondered why Square went the way they did with FF13 and FF15. This explains it a lot and that is a shame. I remember Bravely Default coming out and loving it so much it had both a breath of fresh air and nostaglia I was missing from more modern games at that time. That panel specifcally was really gross. The epitome of people who think their opinion is fact. I feel so sorry for the person who asked that question and I am glad Phil Fish ejected themselves from game development.

I'm glad you covered the whole Phil Fish thing, I pointed to the same thing on reddit because it perfectly encapsulates the vitriol during the 7th gen. It was wild how bad it got back then. And I know JPN devs back then who became aware of the toxicity. It kinda reminded me of the 2D hate after 1995, where anything other than polygons was automatically treated as outdated, which unsurprisingly 2D games back then was also largely from Japanese studios.

This has been one of the best episodes in a long while.

Up till now, I’ve always thought of JRPG like “Chinese Food”. It references a styles’s country of origin, but could be made anywhere. So if you asked me previously I probably would have said that yes Undertale is a western made JRPG. But obviously this recent buzz has caused me to want to think on this all more.

JRPGs tend to be longer and more flavorful then contemporaries - it's time to make the "J" stand for "Juicy"

I can never prove it but I 100% feel like persona 5's flawless presentation and UI was a huge direct middle finger to Phil Fish

To me a JRPG is a RPG released from a Japanese developer. Meaning the type of game play and lore and layout of menus were a certain way. But its not bad term or meant a bad way by players. I mean things like FF7(1997 PlayStation) and Dragon Warrior (1986 NES) and que shitty US devs going "your game sucks" but allot of folks hate how US RPG's expect you to know everything about the new game with 0 tutorials or "first time hu?" bits. US Devs like Phil Fish (FEZ dev the one who was upset by over a podcast to the point he refuses to make more games after someone calls him out as a tosspot/wanker and overall general douche based on his actions and literally tells someone to kill themselves. They said the games made them feel dumb. But is it really the players who said it or just self righteous douche canoes who wanted to put down what was great games. FF7/8/9 is a JRPG/turn based/timed based etc etc. Bloodboune/sekio are ARPG but with the lack or lore and information i would throw it back in the JRPG pool also as you need to look for the wisps of lore and info and put it together yourself. It doesn't spoon feed you useless stupid lore like most american rpg games do. Sadly some JRPG try doing the "hear is all the info take it all in your head' Vs giving you some lore and info and letting you look into it more haunting it down. JRPG to me is not an insult but a genre label for RPG type games. Removing to me would be like removing Puzzle/Mystery/point and click and etc and just labeling all games as "GAMES" cause that is what they are.

I think if you look at that time period the greatest example of that weird anti-Japanese game sentiment was DmC, like yeah the old fan base went batshit but Dante was quite literally called a Gay Cowboy in the most derogatory way.