It Gets Good After 30 Hours (The Jimquisition) 

N U T N U T

"It gets good after 30 hours" You could say the same thing about not sleeping.

I think a lot of people need to realize you can love something without needing everyone else to love it as well.

One point in Spec Ops' favor is that, even if you *do* hate the gameplay, the whole game is maybe six hours. You can polish it off in a single afternoon and move on to other things, and the story will likely stick with you longer than any of the actual experience of playing it.

Y'know the argument it gets better has been around for decades now I think. I always remember Josh Strife Hayes' words on this subject: "I don't care if it gets good in 100 hours if I don't even get that far."

Given a choice between: ‘If you’re loving it now wait till you get 30 hours in, you’ll love it’ And ‘If you’re hating it now wait till you get 30 hours in, you’ll love it’ I know which I’d prefer to be playing.

Brandon Sanderson talked about this in his lectures, there's this idea that many writers are all writing for cinema instead of writing for their medium. When you're writing a movie script you can just assume the audience will stick around until the end because they're socially and physically trapped in the theatre, but take that same movie and make it a game the player has to come back to over and over again for hours at a time and suddenly there is absolutely no guarantee they'll have the patience for the set up and so will never expierience the twist

People, people, people, you may not have liked this video yet, but it get a lot better after watching it on a loop for 30 hours!

You know when Steph was talking about shows need to have a good first season or else they won’t get a second, in my head I was thinking “well unless it’s on Netflix” and lo and behold Steph was on the same page

30 hours=15-20 movies, or three seasons of a TV show, or nearly a full week of office work; and the latter is the only thing most people will put up with for being terrible for that long.

There's a big difference between "a game that starts bad and gets better later" and "a game that starts ok and gets great later"

"It gets good after 30 hours" really means "The first 30 hours are not good". It is like licking a turd to get to a yummy chocolate center

I remember Yahtzee saying two things on the subject. "Why do I need to wait 40 hours for it to be good? Why can't it be good now?" And something his English teacher once said "Is this the most interesting thing that happened in your characters life? And if not, why aren't you writing about *that*?"

- Make friends with a cute blonde and play around at a fair. - Watch your new friend disappear when she volunteers to engage in an experiment made by your best friend. - Discover the experiment is a TIME MACHINE and go back 1,400 years in the past to rescue your new friend because you're a brave badass - Find yourself waylaid by monsters while stuck in the middle of a war between humans and demons. - Team up with your scientist friend and a TALKING FROG KNIGHT to prevent a time paradox and save your new friend who is actually a princess. - Go on trial for supposedly kidnapping said princess upon getting back to the present and break out of prison to fight a dragon tank. - Find yourself flung into an apocalyptic future to discover that the world eventually comes to an end via giant alien leech and resolve to stop it because, again, you are a badass. You do this in Chrono Trigger. . . in the first three hours.

"Is this game worth reaching thirtieth hour for?" is a valuable question.

"it gets good after 30 hours" is also the precursor to "pay this microtransaction to skip the grind and have more fun than the proles"

There's something enjoyable about seeing Steph wander around being a chaos gremlin

Funny thing about Breaking Bad's first season: Even though it does pale in comparison to the rest of the show, it completely changes when you rewatch it after finishing the show. The first time you watch it you're lead to believe that Walter was just this frustrated nerdy guy who was dealt a bad hand and resorted to making meth because he was left with relatively few options. But after seeing what happened to him later and revisiting it, you realize that he was always kind of a selfish bastard whose ego was going to destroy everything and everyone around him no matter what. If Walter had swallowed his pride and accepted Gretchen and Elliott's offer, the show would've been over after one episode.

As much as I love you deep diving into shifty industry practices I'm so glad you are getting back into talking about and reviewing video games more

There's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. And its that there's, like, two broad camps of media consumers. Especially in videogames. ESPECIALLY in RPGs, open world games, and all other big adventure-y games. Basically, to put it real bluntly, there's people who prefer "quality" and people who prefer, I guess like... "bang for the buck." This first really hit me some years ago when I saw a reddit poll about ideal jRPG length. One of the options was basically "the longer the better" and, wow, that seemed to be a rather popular choice at the time. Granted, one whole reddit poll doesn't really make a case, and I haven't exactly been collecting hard statistics since then, but... I dunno, it really does kinda feel like if you ask any individual person about this, they're gonna lean towards either "I don't want my time wasted" or "please waste as much as my time as possible on purpose." And I don't necessarily mean either of those in a bad way, it's just an observation that I haven't really formulated a proper academic thesis about, heh. Point is, I can see how the latter group is more likely to come to bat for such games as these.

Hope you really enjoyed your time at the Stupendium

You’ve captured the energy of Yoda going through Luke’s stuff. ❤

I think part of the issue is time - when I was younger I could slog through hours of rubbish to get to the good part, but as an adult with less time, a game has to be good pretty quickly if not from the start for me to want to stick with it

It gets good after x hours where x equals an exponentially increasing likelihood that you’re actually experiencing an acute case of sunken cost fallacy.

The problem with games involving slavery is that often the evil characters feels cartoonish, even if the portrayal is realistic. But what feels cartoonish in a fantasy world will never reach the levels of real life slavery such as buying babies by the pound or feeding children to dogs and having the parents watch. Both things which we have accounts of. It's hard to write "slavery bad" that doesn't feel anvilicious, sadly.

I hear after being baked for 30 minutes, you won't feel nearly as bad being set on fire. I haven't exactly tested this but I believe indeed the nerves will be well past gone by then. I've heard of this one guy who actually laughed while being cooked alive, telling them to 'turn me over, I'm done on this side' as his execution was being committed. Perhaps it's something I ought to give a shot at if that's true! I've tried 10+ hours of 13, though and still ponder where this resurgence of popularity came from.

“Ooh! Colourful things!” 😂😂 That felt supremely genuine 😅

"It gets good after 30 hours" I beat and enjoyed Darksiders 3 in 25 hours, and it's a story focused game.

"Some people have told me that FFXIII gets good about 20 hours in. You know that's not really a point in its favor, right? Put your hand on a stove for 20 hours and yeah, you'll probably stop feeling the pain, but you'll have done serious damage to yourself." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, Zero Punctuation: Final Fantasy XIII

7:27 I've seen thousands of collective hours of pornographic content and this has been the most elegantly demonstrated display of the perfect shaft stroke I have ever seen. Smooth, Confident, and Considerate it is a lesson of how Steph has completely mastered the maurbatory arts... oh and trains I guess.

As a kid, I had a bit more tolerance for games that took a while to get good. After all, I a fair bit of time and only like three games. My choices were "keep playing this game in the hopes that it gets good later" or "go read a book or something because you don't have any other games". These days, when I have less time and more games, I need some damn good word of mouth if I'm going to wait even four hours until a game gets to the good part. After all, I can always just go play something that's good right out of the gate.

Would watch an entire video of Stephanie Sterling stressing out The Stupendium.

I've never understood the X-men trope of "bully people with superpowers that could level you in a heartbeat".

I can tell you and stupes had a bit of fun, and I love just how good they are at acting.

I think the “it gets better after xx hours,” is directly referencing ffxivs mantra. “It gets better after ARR we swear.” And generally that’s true! But I think most rpgs try to grip you in the beginning and then gain momentum after a bit. I always love a nuanced look at the darker side of humanity and still finding hope to make it better stories

When I hear worlds that are "too miserable to be worth saving" writing, I think about dorohedoro. Q Hayashida does such an amazing job of showing that even when you're at the bottom of nothing in a world that doesn't want you, you still have your friends, family, and lovers and it makes it feel like the characters have no wants but their happiness and their friends only want theirs. It can be done so well

In the wise words of Zero Punctuation: "If someone serves you a dead dog for an appetizer, you don't stick around for the main course!" EDIT: So FF16 wants to be Dragon Age, without anything that made DA good? See also, DA was good right out of the starting gate!

I'm 38. I have a full time job with a commute, a fiancé, and a social life. I no longer am willing to give time *or* patience, quite frankly, to a game that makes me wade through 30 hours (or more!) of mediocrity just to get to the parts that are marginally better.

Your bits with The Stupendium had me rolling! XD

This is an incredibly well done video that explores both sides. Dare I say you got a classic, Steph.

I wish my friends understood your last comment of "No amount of imposing will force someone to change their taste. It will only further incline them to reject yours". They always try to force games on me, modes within a game, or a specific way to play a game on me knowing that I don't have the patience or attention span to deviate from what I like.

This is just another branch of the gatekeeping that tells you to show people your fully completed save file before leveling criticism at a thing that they like. It's not just a video game thing either, but pretty much every medium with a rabid fanbase. I've made statements of a lot of the popular music artist whose output I can't stand and I am always countered with "you need to sit down and listen to this hour to an hour-and-a-half album because it shows how great the artist is". I've already heard an album's worth of those artists since their music played literally everywhere and I don't like it. being forced to sit with them for an hour is not going to make me like them better. It's probably going to make me hate them more out of spite.

Two of my favourite youtubers together! You look like you're having such a great time :D

Another awesome video as usual, thank you very much 😊

"It gets good after 30 hours" Well, there are a ton of shorter games that I've enjoyed all the way through. Hellblade is about 8 hours, every single one well used, and I adored Spec Ops (5ish hours) from beginning to end. There's a ton of games where I don't have to slog through to get to the good part, so I'll stick with those.

This reminds me of Hatoful Boyfriend. It starts with the premise of being a dating sim where you date birds to being an excellent visual novel. There is a point to the dating sim to learn and care about the birds but a huge issue is that the dating sim part puts off so many people that people don't get a chance to experience hurtful boyfriend mode.

Glad to see you collab, been a fan of you both for years.

Yup. Every time I’ve enjoyed something where the consensus is “it gets good after x”, I’ve found it enjoyable from the beginning. It’s never worth it otherwise.

In regards to the topic, I believe I should borrow from/mostly quote one of your old colleagues, who put it best years ago and did so over another Final Fantasy game: "Some people have told me that FF[16] gets good about [30] hours in. You know that's not really a point in its favor, right? Put your hand on a stove for [30] hours, and yeah, you'll probably stop feeling the pain, but you'll have done some serious damage to yourself."

It shouldn't take 30 hours to be good yet here we are

Thanks for the vid. Always great.

Thank god for James Stephanie Sterling.

Josh Strife Hayes says on his MMO first impressions series that it doesn't matter if the game "gets good" after 100 or 200 hours in. If the game's not good in the first 10 minutes you're not going to have players.

The anime equivalent would be "It gets good after 30 episode... trust me bro" Why can't it be good from the start? Writing a compelling beginning is also part of being a good storyteller.

I didn't see this collab coming. But I HAVE to insist on more. Nevermind the fact that a three-way collab between Steph, The Stupendium and Dan Bull would actually be fun.

This review starts off slow, but it gets really good around 22:52

The discourse around the FF MMO drive me up the wall. But it was "it gets good after 100 hours"

That first 30 seconds had me creasing 😂

Great video, as per usual. Loved the end bit. I needed a laugh.

Chaotic gremlin Sterling is now my favourite.

The problem people don't get with a slow burn is that it still has to, y'know, burn. The part that exists to build up the really good bit needs to be engaging in it's own right, otherwise you've just made an impenetrable preamble of boredom. The best example I can present is a comparison of Jaws and Godzilla 2014, which many people compare to Jaws because of how little they show the titular monster. Jaws uses it's first two acts building suspense and makes sure to show you people getting dismembered to keep you hooked. Godzilla 2014 managed to dig some pathos out of you because Bryan Cranston could make a Wiseau script come to life but once he's dead we're stuck with Kickass in Camo trying to get to the interesting stuff while the movie plays coy with the fact that it's a kaiju movie. And the actual kaiju stuff in the third act is good enough to be a thing but the fact that I just sat through watching an hour of people running away from monsters sans seeing the monsters is a bit of a damper on the whole thing.

This reminds me a bit of the beginning of Phantom Brave. The first time I tried the game, the entire world is just dumping on your main character: An orphaned little girl that's able to see and communicate with ghosts. Even after you save the village from bad guys, they continue to verbally rip apart this child for several scenes! I put it down the first time cause it was just depressing and didn't seem like worth continuing. Years later, tried again and kept going this time, I see the world lighten up eventually, but SHEESH. Early bad impressions that last too long can totally sour a mood to continue playing a game

I love the twist at the end

omg I am so excited for u potentially showing up in a Stupendium video

I love genres of games that often take 10+ hours for fans of the style to work out if they actually like them. 4X games, space traders/combat games, city builders etc. I'm not going to tell someone who can't get past an hour of one they're wrong. *Negative reviews* have convinced me to play games because I get my tastes aren't everyone's and the review had information that pricked up my ears. And they've told people who wouldn't like it not to bother so win win.

First impressions are everything. and that goes for any media.

This video is brilliant. Also love The Stupendium. Ending had me laughing my ass off.

Truly a Stupendous opening!🎉

Yeah, knew this was coming. Gamers (tm) need to learn that people dropping out early is a normal risk of a slow burn story

I also find it frustrating how docile people make slaves as if they never rebelled so it was their fault they got enslaved when in reality history of slavery is filled with rebellions

That intro song had me chuckling, but the NUTNUT segment ending with that "cuuuum" had me legitimately laughing out loud, good work!

So hyped for a collab!!!!

It's one thing to have a world full of unlikable characters. Its another to have a world full of uncompelling characters who don't interest you enough to care what happens to them.

Now, more than ever, games need to respect a player’s time. Games that only become “good” after hours upon hours of play display a lack of respect for players’ time almost as egregious as the games that try to frustrate you into paying for micro transactions.

Thank you once again for another wonderfully made video and for your dedication and hard work.

Also: I was excited to see another of my favorite RU-vid creators in this video, and I absolutely was not expecting Stupes' retaliation there at the end 😂

The "It Gets Good After 30 Hours"-type argument is something you see regularly in other media as well. Star Trek TNG is infamous for having its early seasons be mediocre, and I struggle to recommend the original Urusei Yatsura to anyone since it took a couple dozen episodes to hit its stride.

Stephanie Sterling and Stupendium!? On the same shot?! I must be dreaming

Now that was nice little skit between the bits.👍🏻

Some other things that get better after 30 hours: underwear, meth amphetamine, being buried alive, picnic pasta salad, international plane rides

I don't agree with bearers being spinless victims when The Hideaway has an entire group of bearers that free other bearers. Like, people will talk about the sidequest and ignore everything they say.

I did complete FFXVI, and it does not get better. In the last quest of the town of Dalimil, an important NPC is revealed to be a magic user. And while he was an important figure in the town, they all immediately turn on him, calling him a liar, and much worse, they start throwing stones at him. A litteral, biblical lapidation. And then two kids start defending him. And they get lapidated too. But then the child-lapidating villagers are reminded that actually, that guy is a pretty useful blacksmith and he helped the town in the past. And so they "forgive" him. And the victim, still bloodied from the stones, helps them against the bandits, instead of fucking off and letting them die. As Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer taught us a long time ago, difference is acceptable IF you can be useful.

Stupendium needs better security. Thank you for the fantastic episode!

This entire vid felt like a feverdream!!

As someone show has gotten 2/3 through Nier Automata before letting it languish _twice_ now, despite quite enjoying it, this spoke to me.

its funny because if someone told me to give a show an Entire Season before giving up if I'm bored, I'd laugh in their face

The best intro to a video I've seen in my life

Steph as someone that's been following you for over a decade at this point I didn't think you could get any better than your already glorious self, but in the last few months & weeks you've really had a second wind, hats off to you ya absolute legend!

That's right, JSS. Nier Automata still offers you an appropriately entertaining and interesting experience before the big twists. It does get better, but you're starting from a solid foundation. Which is why this particular trope needs the audience to already have a certain degree of acceptable joy and fun. If you're bored for 30 hours, you won't stick around.

It's so nice to see you enjoying life and having a good time with friends Steph

I enjoyed it from the very start. The fact that it got better as more abilities unlocked seemed like a natural progression to me.

Hell yeah, love the Stupendium.

I think this is my favourite episode this year. Great stuff 😁 I was smiling like an idiot most of the way through. Made my Monday, cheers Steph.

I think the heart of this discussion can be boiled down to whether we engage with something because it's "compelling" or if it's "entertaining". In the TV world, all the big dramas that may take time to reveal their brilliance (Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones, Ozark, etc.) can be compelling as hell but not necessarily entertaining the whole time. In the video game world, we've sort of conditioned ourselves into playing games explicitly for entertainment. "Spec Ops: The Line" is one of the few games I can think of that is compelling without being even a little fun. I respect the hell out of that game but never want to play it again. But going beyond that, I think in the video game space part of the reason it can take time for a game to reveal its brilliance may be due to the number of mechanics they have to introduce. I love Fire Emblem games, but I'll freely admit they start slow often by design. You only ever start with 1-3 characters with 1-2 weapons and there just aren't many interesting choices you can make. This is great for newcomers, but for series veterans it can be a slog. And if the initial batch of characters/lore isn't compelling enough, it can be tough to get through that. But the depth of the gameplay and strategy reveals itself as you recruit more characters, have them level up, interact, evolve and so on. And by its design of your units being able to be killed off, there's a lot of organic storytelling that can happen as you get further along. But again, that only works once you feel attached to your units in the first place, which just won't happen after 2 missions.

My favorite people, in one video! Awesome!

23:58 It was at this moment that I realized how much I missed the hat with a corset on it.

"It get's good after 30 hours." That's what they said about FF13, that's what they said about FF 14. I say "FF 5 started getting good after about 5 minutes, FF 7 starts getting good after about 1 minute, Oblivion starts getting good from the first second because it starts with Patrick Steward doing a monologue, WHY ISN"T IT STARTING AT THE GOOD PART?!"

If a game "gets good after 30 hours" I'm simply not playing it. Do the people saying that realize how many good shorter games I could play in 30 hours? Movies, TV, books? 30 hours is an incredibly large amount of free time to waste on something that isn't good when you don't have a lot of free time to begin with.

Bwahahaha! Was doing the daily challenge on BoneRaiser Minions when I got to that line. Loved to see you goofing around with Stupendium! All the best to you both!

Wait, what the fuck- the song at the end was absolutely wonderful and i'd love a full version!