The bosses are like that because of the co-op. If they didn't limit the window to damage the boss, 4 players would eat those bosses for lunch in seconds. They needed a better middle ground, though. They're far too tedious.
I think they should've probably had dynamic boss difficulty according to how many players there were. Perhaps that's already there, I'm not going to check :D
I'm not going to check it either, as I have zero patience for lengthy bosses in Sonic games. Don't they know spectacle is only sort of impressive the first time? Imagine tying to speedrun this game and getting deflated every time you get to a boss.
While I was watching this video, I was struck by just how much I appreciate John's perspective in these DF videos. There's tech discussion, of course, but there's also an abiding love for design and what gives a game its heart. For me, that's the true joy of a DF Retro or deep dive review like this -- it makes me look at something I take for granted in a new light. Keep up the good work, John!
"This is the price for 60 frames per second. Seriously, if this is what it takes to reach that target on the Switch so be it." I have some experience with developer Unity games for Nintendo Switch, and the struggles of optimizing them for the hardware. I say with 100% certainty that Sonic Superstars simply is a terrible port. Nothing about its gameplay or visuals should be pushing the hardware hard enough to require these downgrades.
He does seem like the most ardent gamer of the group, whereas the others, maybe with the exception of Ollie, seem more laser-focused on the tech aspects.
@@yellowblanka6058 They're all gamers but is the only one with talent to make a complete review covering all elements of what makes a good game including historical additions (he's an encyclopedist)
Kind of interesting how suddenly the artists and designers became unafraid to use bright colors. It was a highlight in Mario Wonder too. Also wow I wasn't expecting the modded soundtrack to sound that good.
I love the design of Wonder, but I feel like they just haven't got the look of Sonic right in 3D.. There's something off to me about the heavy use of fresnel and the texture / modelling work, it just doesn't translate the 2D style properly IMO. Part of it also feels like the camera work, they need more of an orthographic camera or something. Maybe just me, but I've always been disappointed in the Sonic 3D look.
@@Scorpiove I should've been more specific about my issues being more with the general level art direction. If you put a frame of SS next to Wonder you might see what I mean. SS puts that frensel shader over everything as a crutch to create separation like a lot of mobile games. I would just love to see a really great looking 3D Sonic game, like how arc systems took DBZ and nailed the style.
This is one of the times where overclocking the switches cpu actually helps a lot as it's more cpu limited it was a lot closer to 60 even at boss battles
Not to denigrate his work in any way but: - Write scripts for what you're shooting - Cut your footage to match that script - Make any unique creations you need - transitions, title cards, etc. - Hide the seams with transitions, be they visual or audio. - Practice, practice, practice You can hide cuts/fluffs in your audio take with the footage & the transitions. John normally shoots into camera with a light & (I presume) shotgun mic off screen for audio, with a screen behind as a teleprompter. He's not really in this video at all, but if you watch others you can see the ring light he uses in his eyes & his eye line following the script. The more you do it, the more you'll internalise and do all the steps together instead of sequentially. IE: You'll capture footage as you're doing what it is you're doing (here, playing the game to review), knowing already what you want to say before you write the script for it. The only solo part is creating the assets to fit the visual style of the footage, but even those can be done in a way that you can re-use them easily elsewhere & in future projects. Also, John always lights his physical inserts well, the backgrounds are separated with good distinction and key lighting. This isn't hard to do, just something most people don't bother with. Shake all that up & you'll have something similar.
@@Terminal_Apotos there's a bunch of good tutorials on RU-vid. It's a style thing, but I'd say wipes are handy to know and maybe watch something like Every Frame a Painting about how people do video essays well. Then just get creative. Once you learn the basics of how stuff is animated in After Effects or your mograph editor of choice, just play around with what shapes can do & how far/near away from camera they do it. You'll realise a lot of forced 2D perspective stuff from 8/16 bit gaming translates well to them
John, what an amazing review. Compared to other outlets who just focus on saying its 2d sonic, you went all in with the side-by-side comparison in how the momentum and speeds work in this game, the comment on the (awful) sonic 4 soundtrack and all the details I didn't see anyone else talking about. Love your work a ton!
What part of it? Switch : Runs worse, looks worse. Everything else : Great \ eh it's fine. ??? What value is in overdiscussing the Switch being shit, STILL?
As someone who had the nes, master system, then genesis and snes I’m loving this and the new Mario brothers games. Great to see the genre hasn’t been forgotten
On paper I should love this game, but I've run into so many little issues along the way that would so often spoil the experience. Things that should've been flagged and fixed before it went out the door. It's just not polished enough for the price point they sold it at. Some of it can be fixed with post-launch patches, but this "ship it unfinished, call it Plus a year later" rodeo is growing old.
The visual cutbacks on Switch were really noticeable in still images, but they were much harder to see in actual gameplay. Considering how fast Sonic games tend to be, the cutbacks to hit 60 fps were definitely the right choice.
These are the best game reviews on the internet. Your Mario Wonder review was awesome and this one is equally great. Love the in-depth analysis of the mechanics which define the 'feel' of a game.
Overall liked the video, but the criticism of the existing music was over the top. You made your point after the first couple of examples, so when it continued for several more, it went too far. Otherwise excellent.
Have to agree. This was about the game's performance on different Platforms not the game's soundtrack which incidentally I don't really mind. Don't really understand the hate for it tbh.
Oh man, that scene at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="868">14:28</a> looks really bad, like OG Xbox running on a PC emulator bad (by current gen standards).I'm not a graphics snob by any means but that's rough.
I really don't think the PC version deserves credit for being modable. If your review is that the music is poor and compromises the overall artistic value of the game then that's the review, not that it can be fixed with mods on PC.
Haven’t watched yet, but I have the switch version and just don’t think the game is very up to par with what you’d expect from this generation. The 3D backgrounds are very low poly, and the load times are horrendous. This ain’t Witcher 3 people- it’s a 2.5D Sonic game. And Trip’s story is just plain cheap and BS with the final boss. It’s a shame to say because without the difficulty spikes and other questionable decisions this is as close to another classic Sonic experience as you can get.
how switch games like Mario Kart 8 have extraordinary visuals and 60fps, and games like Sonic have to cut so many corners to maintain the frame rate? :(
i think the developers just don't know how to optimise the engine. the new Star Ocean remake uses Unity and for me it's the new king of graphics on Switch. corners were cut (pop up is insane) but everything else is a masterpiece, mainly the high-resolution textures. looks really like a ps4 triple AAA game. the point is Sega is a powerhouse and could have adressed something so bad being made with their mascot@@efraimkent
The difference between having to make a game compatible with multiple platforms and being able to put all of your resources and time into a single platform
I was hoping that John would create just such a video! Thanks, John! I really love your videos, especially since you are so familiar with the 16-bit era and know how games should be! You really need to do some consulting work on the side for makers of games that are attempting a retro feel!
Small FOV would be fine if it was a handheld-only game, but absolutely doesn't work on PC and consoles that are commonly used with bigger screens. Absolutely needs a fix through mods because devs don't care about that as we've learned in many games over the years...
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 I guess you mean that console games typically have no FOV slider/setting? That is true (big shame since people have very different viewing distances and eyeseight) but even on a console this super small FOV just is a little too much as a standard setting for gaming on a TV. You don't need as high of an FOV like many PC gamers prefer but I still think that the chosen FOV really only suits handheld and nothing else.
Glad you enjoyed it, warts and all John 🙂 I had a blast with it, plus I'm so glad we finally have a Sonic sidescroller that can run at unlocked frame rate on PC The only issue there being the spindash is bugged and starts dropping charge inputs above 60 😅 still hoping they fix that, really cant be overstated how amazing the game looks and feels at high frame rate. Even though I prefer Mania overall, I would absolutely miss 120fps going back to it Would be nice if 120fps could be an option on the the higher end consoles too, even if resolution drop is needed
Was just playing this on PS5. It's decent. Far from perfect but it's fun. Bit of slowdown here and there occasionally, surprisingly... Was hoping for your video on this!
I actually like those fake Mega Drive drums and the tracks they feature in and they don't sound too different from the drums in Sonic 1 & 2. Other Mega Drive Sonic games barely use them though. My main problem is the boss battles, and the depth of field bothers me a bit, but otherwise, this is a really good game.😮
I like the super compressed snare sound as well. I’ve honestly never thought Sonic 4s music was as offensive or jarring than others seem to. No it’s not amazing but it never bothered me particularly much
@@segasonic23 I agree, my main problem with Sonic 4's soundtrack was the super short loops. But the tracks themselves weren't that bad. Mania's stuff was definitely better, though.
@@jollama I looked for a month. No one on the entirety of the internet has answered this anywhere that I could find. I tried asking people on social media even as well. If you can find the answer via Google, I am more than open to hearing it!
There's no reason for the PS5 version to not support 120fps. I'm sick of this laziness. If you're always rolling, you can't enjoy the excellent run animation. No mention of surround sound or how miserable Trip's story is designed.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1811">30:11</a> This here matches my overall thoughts on this game. My first playthrough was rough but after subsequent runs through these levels, it’s really growing on me. I think the big reason is, as was mentioned, the controls. It feels almost exactly like the Genesis titles and Sonic Mania and that’s a huge thing for me. Many other 2D Sonic games just don’t do it for me because they loose a lot of what made the first few games so fun to play. Smooth controls that feel natural and level design that rewards skilled players. Aside from the bosses which are a drag to get through and some of the music sounding half-assed, I’m having a good time with this game.
A new side scrolling Mario, a new side scrolling Sonic... it's like we're back in the 90's lol. Informative review as ever, and yeah, the Switch is well due for a successor. Fingers crossed for around this time next year.
Maybe it's because I'm not a huge Sonic guy, but I thought the tracks John criticized sounded fine. However, the sound of that hover board (or whatever it's supposed to be) was extremely irritating to my ears and is the kind of thing that would prevent me from wanting to play the game.
I really dislike the "all acts gets a boss" thing, even in Mania it was killing the pace to me. I sincerely hope they'll drop this concept for the next games
Compromising on details such texture quality on the switch version really is the right decision for a sonic game, like is there really a point in making rocks on the floor look good when you'll be speeding through them anyway almost never stopping?
The Sonic series for 20+ years has been managed by try hard idiots. They took the idea of "gotta go fast" and thought it was "gotta ALWAYS go fast" which largely ruined the series. There's been a bunch of good titles over the years but none of them captured what made the original games fun with both platforming and speed. They also failed by moving the series along trends of the time rather than make their own thing, hence the annoyance of skater-boy-rock when they moved to 3D. The original soundtracks were incredible, even the one in Sonic 3D Blast on the Genesis/Mega Drive but I've personally struggled to connect with any sound track since in the 3D games (thoguh I will say the Advance and Rush soundtracks were very good, and Manina is absolutely amazing). Sonic became too many things to too many people, they should have just broken out the two games into seperate IPs Sonic the Hedgehod and some other generic speed character for games that didn't match the original vision. In comparison, Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Mega Man, Resident Evil etc. all remained with consistent identities (both gameplay and aesthetics) as the series progressed, even when they've made rebooted certain series over the years. Sonic the Sonic Physics has been documented by fans for years it bewilders me how many people haven't even attempted to replicate the pinball gameplay of the originals.
I take offense at the "skater-boy-rock" soundtracks being mentioned as a bad thing, haha! But I agree about the gameplay, and have been thinking some of the same things. When you go back and play the 16-bit Sonic games, it's clear that they were *platformers*. Yes, the speed helped set Sonic apart from the competition, but it was just one element. The "boost" games like Rush and Generations are fun and spectacular, but they feel so shallow, and they have little in common with the originals. To take the comparisons you made, it would be like turning the Metroid and Resi series into straightforward, CoD-style FPSes.
@@3dmarthHaha sorry to offend! Don't get me wrong, if skater boy rock is your thing that's cool, I knew a lot of people they liked it at the time, not all the songs are bad but it missed the mark for me. I just skipper they era of music. Sonic was always closer to dance/trance/electronics than trendy rock, so when they switched it felt like they'd abandoned me, music is such an integral part of a series' identity. The change no doubt welcomed a bunch of new people but it mostly felt like it was leaving me behind.
@@neonswift It's okay, I didn't take it too seriously. :) Yeah, I enjoyed- and still enjoy- the Adventure-era soundtracks, including the punk and hard rock tracks. But then, I like '80s music, so I must have a high tolerance for cheese. :P You may have known this, but Sonic 1 and 2 were done by a J-pop guy (Masato Nakamura from Dreams Come True), who even made instrumental adaptations of some of his band's songs and put them in the games. So those early soundtracks were literally made up of pop songs and love songs (partially, anyway), and it made for a distinct style that hasn't been replicated. Usually, the newer Sonic music that tries for a Genesis-like synth style ends up kind of missing the mark, as it's decent, but feels like there's a bit too much "16-bit retro throwback" focus, and not enough of the "early '90s pop music" side of things. I think Sonic music has stayed pretty good throughout the decades, though, even if the style isn't always to my taste... but as a Sonic Adventure fan, I understand the feeling of being left behind by the series!
Amazing video! Thank you! (To be honest - your material is- in my opinion - much more enjoyable than the game itself. ) Whenever DF publish your video, it's always feels special! Always is! Simply outstanding!
That floating platform hum is so bad and ruins stage music for sure. They need to patch it out entirely. Who's dumb idea was it to include that garbage?
on PS5: brand new XBOX Live Arcade game on Switch: brand new 3DS game the Iighting is so basic and boring it Iooks on par with the Sonic mobiIe games, though idk what l expected from arzest
It feels like the best part of this game is the controls - which was provided by Evening Star through their bespoke engine. Really wish they led development to be honest, think we would've gotten something that could've topped Mania.
I still want to give this game a shot, having grown up around the Sonic and Mario eras of the 90s and loved those games. I simply don't have much faith or trust in Sega or Sonic Team to bring out a competent product because of incompetent business decisions and odd shenanigans. What stings further is that in the UK, this game has a HIGHER retail price than almost every first party Nintendo Switch game, including Super Mario Wonder! And THREE times more than the brilliant Sonic Mania. Superstars has been discounted now to £35, but I just found that incredibly insulting that they think their games are equal or worth more than almost every other when they have not proven themselves to be competent or deserving of that. That ridiculously high price really hurt the game as reflected in the game's first week of sales in Japan; we know Sonic is not at all popular in Japan, but the Switch version which is normally the platform Sonic is most popular on, barely cracked more than 4,000 units sold after a week. That's really bad when much older games still outsold it that same week. I won't budge until it hits £20.
I don't think any of the examples of modded music tracks sound better, since they all seem to drop the groovy base lines that were such a mainstay of good 2D Sonic music. It is nice to potentially be able to mod something in that doesn't overuse the snare drum, though. Happy to hear that there is no motion blur on Switch as I find it horrible, but some of those backdrops really needed to be better.
I will always accept a loss in visuals for better framerate and gameplay. If they could have done better, it's a shame they didn't, but if the gameplay is fun I don't care in the end.
Wow, the modded music is SO MUCH BETTER. I think you are correct about Sonic 4 music in superstars… when Superstars was first displayed in playable form, it used sonic 4 music… it looks like a Last minute change was made in the music for the game…
The bigest confusion with the music is Jun Senoue sticking with the "Genesis sounding" Sonic 4 sounds that sound like me trying to emulate sonic sounds in a basement but yet when he gets on the guitar he RIPS. Like listen to Splash Hill then listen to Splash Hill re-imaged on the Sonic channel and it's a WHY DIDN'T YOU DO THAT THIS SOUNDS AMAZING moment that boggles the mind. Like who at Sega keeps telling him to go to those sounds when he can make things sound so much better? Can someone delete that drum kit from his PC so he can produce music at his best? I don't know but it needs to never come back into a Sonic game unless he's using the actual drum kit from the Genesis if they want to go that route ever again but personally I'm over that sound and welcome in some new music for Sonic.
Sonic 4 episode 1's soundtrack had a mix of the original Sonic 1+2 drum samples and Korg Triton combi and program patches, while episode 2's songs had stuff like AIR Music's "Vacuum" and "Xpand! 2" patches being used alongside those drum samples. In Sonic Superstars I'm definitely under the impression that Jun's tracks have some FM going on in there too, but I've not really put much time into speculating. Eventually someone'll find out.
It's definitely possible to have a much better looking sidescroller on the switch while keeping 60 FPS, look at Mario Wonder, or the Shantae games. There's no way they actually had to reduce the resolution of 2D billboards, let alone to N64 texture levels, and the complete lack of anti aliasing at 720p looks pretty bad.
As Sonic fans, we should want better. This was just a somewhat improved Sonic 4 and that’s AFTER I put several hours into it. Rehashed, recycled bs madness. Give us Sonic Mania 2 already!
What does that even mean you want to avoid rehashed concepts by getting a direct sequel to a game that rehashed concepts. Dude just say you want another sprite based sonic game
Its still kinda nuts that ive grown up with Mickey's Castle Of Illusion, Sonic 1-3 and Super Mario Bros series and this year we got Disney's Illusion Island, Sonic Superstars & Super Mario Bros Wonder.
I think sonic games would benefit A TON by zooming out (increasing FOV). I can't stand that it's so easy to run into something right in front of you. It's the main reason I don't play them.
The songs he did for this game are not bad from a music composition standpoint, some of them are great even. On PC you can compare the in-game songs with a "beta" arrangement by Tee Lopes that can be found in the files. The composition truly does shine there. It's really just the fact that Jun Senoue uses these 16 bit drum samples for his arrangements.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'd love to hear Senoue do another Adventure-style soundtrack: eclectic, but with a big helping of cheesy hard rock! And yeah, his chiptune stuff since Sonic 4 is like a poor imitation (almost a parody) of what Genesis Sonic games sounded like.
@@aolson1111 Only 3? He did Green Grove, Panic Puppet 1, Special Stage, Spring Stadium, and the Ending, according to my list. Oh, and the unused Knuckles Special Stage (which made it into Sonic Adventure). Though now that I think of it, Spring Stadium had one of the weaker tunes in the game, and that unused boss theme was just awful. I don't know- maybe he's just good at "real music", and when he gets into the mentality of making "game music", things go down the toilet.
Just got done binge watching your Sonic 06 and other sonic videos (Sonic CD included, its fucking amazing!) So to see this makes me happy! Keep up the great work!!! and ignore the haters
I feel like a lot of the new wave reviewers are simply too young to have played the original games and identified what makes them good and special. Physics, level design, control responsiveness. This is easily an 8/10 for me. Stands right up there with Mania. It makes the 2D sections in Forces and Generations look like garbage by comparison.
I don't agree with blurring out the backgrounds --- the 16bit games were able to have sharp backgrounds which yet managed to not confuse foreground action. Those 16 bit artists really excelled at detailed 2D backgrounds and even had twinkling water which drew the eye. It made Sonic's 16 bit world feel expansive, like you're just playing a small portion of what's possible in his world.
John, I've said it before and I'll say it again: You're the GOAT game reviewer! Yup and I'll fight anyone who disagrees 👊 Thank you sir! Your reviews add to the joy one already has for gaming 👌👌
I got the physical version on Switch for $30, I think for that price the game is definitely pretty good. It's not quite as good as Mania or the older Genesis games, but it's still really good and is the best side scrolling "3D" Sonic game. I know the Switch version is the least attractive version, however I appreciate how responsive it feels and the concessions in the graphics department aren't too bad and actually still looks good (at least in portable mode which is the only way I play).
Some people are willing to compromise on Switch performance if the dang price was reflective of that. Like by 50% Im looking at you Mortal Kombat and Lego Star Wars 🤨
I didn’t even notice those frame drops on the switch 😅 I still love playing this game on my switch and I still think it looks great. Just have fun peeps.
@@evrythingis1 I still think switch games technical analysis is still interesting. I believe you’re right that anyone playing anything on the switch probably don’t care as much.
@@evrythingis1 I do actually because I wanna see how much it changes and it case it really looks horrible, I'm gonna pick the game for PC. Still it's a very low bar since I like Switch graphics
Thanks for the asome deep dive!! I just got this game on a big sale for my switch lite. I will most likely double dip on another sale for my other platforms.
I dont get why they keep making Sonic slap bang in the middle of the screen no exceptions. For a game where you are fast, you need more screen space in the direction the character is running.
Wasn't there a game a while back that had the appearance of input lag from the control stick on xbox because it wasn't calibrated correctly? Could the unresponsive controls on the xbox version be a similar problem?
I honestly love there's a viarety of videos on Digital Foundry channel. I like to play the technical framerate and settings analysis from time to time but it's John's content I enjoy the most.
