Stake President Charged for Not Reporting Child Abuse [Radio Free Mormon: 329] 

I hope this puts the local leadership on notice that they are legally responsible to do the right thing and that church lawyers don’t have their back. Reporting abuse is not a morally grey area.

This practice of having the offender confess, repent, and be forgiven needs to end because it does nothing to help the victim.

If I had the internet when I was younger, I would have quit the Mormon church earlier. For every argument for Mormonism, there are 10 against.

Excellent, as always. I married into a Utah family where the grandfather had been s. abusing his own daughter for years and was a bishop. He confessed to it during an interview where they were calling him to be the stake president. The church ex-communicated him but did not tell anyone of authority and the daughter remained in the home. He was later re-baptized. The daughter got married and found out that the abuse had damaged her in a way that prevented her from having children. Everyone in the family continued to accept him and love him through all of it, including his wife. I’m still amazed all these years later.

As a Pennsylvanian for 65 years so far, I’m happy to learn about our mandatory reporting laws.

RFM, thank you for focusing on the legal aspects of the LDS Church, even when topics can be hard to hear. Your analysis and expertise are an invaluable and indispensable part of the pantheon of Mormon podcasters. Your coverage of these matters buttress truth and reassure decisions we all make when we find our way out of the church.

His last name pronounced Hint-zee. This is our former stake before we officially resigned.

Pennsylvania takes mandated reporting seriously.

Thank you for following this case. As a licensed social worker in NYS and mandated reporter, I support legal efforts to protect children.

I live in PA. I am a mandated reporter because I am a licensed practical nurse (LPN) and I must do training every two years before I renew my license. Is there any kind of training required by the state (commonwealth) of any clergy? If not, there should be.

I hope this forces the church’s policy on this into the spotlight so that the coverups will finally stop.

It is absolute deceit that the church ''works actively to prevent abuse''. I am familiar with several incidents of church leaders abusing teenagers and adults and when taken to the Stake Presidents [different ones] the Stake Presidents did nothing, in fact on occasions blamed the victims and in all these incidents they dismissed the allegations causing great distress to the victims. The victim then feels that even God does not care about them as these leaders are supposed to represent God or that the abuses were directly from God - proving to the victims that they have no worth even to God and that not even God cares about them or that God condones the abuse to them.

It's about damn time!

If the Stake President was counseled by Kirton McKonkie to not report, he needs to seek retribution as well. Hit the church where they care, only the money.

Thank you RFM. This one hits close to home as i know sean gooden personally. I lived in his ward in 2004-2007 when he was still in the Philadelphia area (Downingtown Ward). He was in the bishopbric then. … I can’t help but remember how much time he spent in the primary (I was primary chorister…I just thought he visited because he loved music)

It is necessary that the lds leadership step up to the plate , and start protecting victems and reporting abuse, rathar than paying for silence of victems. 😢

For what it's worth, I really prefer the RFM only or RFM and Bill. Four people are too many as it takes too long to get through it. Thanks RFM, great info.

Not again! Seems like there's a new case like this that now comes out on a weekly basis? Thanks again, RFM, for being our interpreter of sorts.

The biggest UNDERLYING issue for believing Mormons is.... WHERE IS THE SPIRIT OF DISCERNMENT???

The fact that there are laws for this, reveals just how sick society is. Child abuse in any form, sexual, physical, and or both, should be reported without hesitation.

Please keep us posted on how this turns out.

If the SP is convicted in PA, will this be the first time a Mormon leader is convicted nationally for failure to report child abuse?

Good for Pennsylvania for having this law include clergy et.al.

Good job, thank you for bringing this information forward!

It's Fudge Around & Find Out Season. And I'm here for it 🔥🔥🔥

Gooden was also part of the stake presidency prior to being bishop and prior to Hintze being stake president. Gooden was also heavily involved in the BSA - in their charter / chapter leadership.

I can't believe he committed these vile acts with children and then he became a Bishop. More proof that no discernment exists among the church leaders!!!!

RFM, YOU re a gem!

In Michigan, where my ward is, the law states that "members of the clergy" are mandated reporters. This means anyone with the priesthood is a mandated reporter, not just someone who holds a leadership role. I have been a mandated reporter because of work, now you can trust and believe that if I find something out, I will be a voluntary reporter and call the hot line. Then, I'll run my mouth to church leadership, and contact a few friends with similar trauma history to mine. We ride at dawn.

This is a real hot potato for the LDS church. They have to defend this guy because if they lose the case it opens the door to more prosecutions. The conflict you brought up about implicating the KM attorney almost seems trivial in comparison as they have to win this at all cost or they're screwed anyway. Hopefully the prosecution watched and got the idea to go after the KM attorney too if they havent already thought of it. As that will just bring more heat and light on the whole mess.

I wonder if he is go going to Sue the church for telling him not to report

We need national clergy reporting laws.

Wow. Wow wow wow.

Stunning to find the corporation acting this cavalier. Good work RFM!

Wildly evil! Brilliant! Thanks again RFM

Is about time liderships positions should get a criminal record check before getting positions of leaderships

Thanks for breaking this legal jargon down.

I don’t know how any of the Kirton McKonkie lawyers can look in the mirror or sleep at night! I hope that lawyer is charged along with that stake president and they do some time in jail!

Sick of this shit happening over and over again

Thank you!

Thanks for bring this to our attention, RFM! I love your legal case and commentary videos. And I will be following this case!

Well done,

This poor leader, is thinking the church will protect him. He doesn't know that the church will put themselves first, and let him take the fall if it comes to that. The church has let me take the fall more than once, and I naively just took it, thinking it was God's will, and the church had done its best! 😝👎🏽 Nope nada. No. It had not. It left me high and dry. And it could easily have helped make it better instead of worse. But chose institution over individual every time.

This is ginormous! Very glad to hear this. I hope you delve in more and follow up on your news show.

Thanks for your work!

How can lawyers in SLC be answering legal questions from all 50 states? Do they have attorneys admitted to the bar in PA giving out this advice?

Excellent broadcast, RFM.

I hope this case gains traction in the world at large so people can discover that LDS hides child abuse just as intentionally and obscenely as the Catholic Church did. I want to see the same level of public outrage followed by the same financial, criminal, reputational, and membership flight consequences.

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. Catching up now. Arrggghhhh!!!!!

Good job Pennsylvania. Other states should follow their lead.

I saw a bishop and stake presidency do the same thing in 1994, because they didn't want bad publicity for the church

WOW, Another incredible and outstanding episode RFM! So sad this happened, but it seems that these things keep happening and happening will someone please break this chain! Is the last name pronounced Hints-zee?

Omg it's ABOUT TIME!!!

Can you imagine when you find out that some sort of sexual assault happened within a church and all you see is they just can't take the sacrament for a little while. If that is all that happens to the person, that sits in members minds and may even justify it with some members if they find themselves with an opportunity to abuse themselves. No wonder this is a problem that has spread like wild fire throughout religious communities.

Pennsylvania is no Arizona, and very stringent in their laws.

Thank you for the clear explanation. This will be interesting to follow.

Will be interesting to see what his defense is. Will there be any element of they told me not to report?

It’s comforting to hear that TSSC “works actively to prevent abuse “. /s

Well done!

Excellent content as usual. Love RFM!

Thanks!

I pretty much agree with you, RFM, but it occurs to me that the SP might not have called KM because while he learned about the abuse recently, it happened more than 20 years ago. The purported reason for the hotline to protect children from abuse (notice I said "purported"), and if the SP thought the now-adult child no longer needed protection he might not have called. Back in the 1990s when I was in California, I was asked to address a bishops' training session about the law of clergy-penitent privilege. (I'm a lawyer.) The church hotline was new at the time and we didn't really know how it was going to be used. I suspected that it was going to be used as it is--as a way to protect the church. Others, though, thought it was a way to get help for victims. The CA law at that time said that if, in accordance with their religious tenets, clergy were required to keep confessions secret, they didn't need to report when they learned of abuse from the abuser. I argued that the Mormon rules at the time might not protect the confession because if (1) forgiveness required church discipline that might involve 16 men then there was no confidentiality and (2) if the abuser wasn't willing to undergo church discipline then he wasn't really seeking church forgiveness. I don't know if the law is still the same, and I don't know how my evaluation of the law would have played out if it had been tested in court, but it certainly was a conundrum.

This stake president will be thrown under the bus by Dallin Oaks as soon as the PR fallout is too embarrassing for The First Presidency. I hope the victim/family goes after him civilly as well.

I became a monthly donor, but then received an email from Mormonism Live thanking me for it. I’m confused…how can I make sure it’s going directly to RFM?

The church will do what it has always done... blame the victim... blame the bishop... blame the stake president... then lie to the world to distance themselves from any responsibility.... then close the matter to further discussion. Involving themselves by providing counsel/attorneys is a sly way to manipulate the system and create distance for themselves and provide accountable persons that are disposable.

That clause sounds more to exclude priesthood holders who are not appointed leaders of a group, ward, or stake.

Thanks for all you do. Bitty approves this message

Next general conference: “just like we give brother Joseph a break give Kurton McKonkie a break”

So the church is essentially protecting themselves.

If you click on the article link in the description, delete the last character (parens) in the URL to see it

It’s about time they start recognizing these mandated reporters, this could set huge precedent imo where alot of abuse has taken place in churches and Church of Scientology especially Im thinking not to mention the obvious the Mormon church imo. ;)

Omg how many more cover up he has been doing?????

They need to get rid of this protection of crimes by specifying it better so children are protected better if these churches don't condemn or punish these creeps. We have a serious issue on this planet with protecting the vulnerable, they are used and abused in horrific ways.

My understanding is the exemption is that confession can't be used in court and clergy can't be compelled to testify, but they still have to report. I live in PA. I was youngs mens leader and that was how I viewed my mandatory reporting requirements.

It’s HINT-zee (I am a Hintze) 😂

Why do we consent to there unlawful jurisdiction? They resolve nothing.

I hope we find out all the juicy details during disclosure

Can the lawyer from KM be charged federally? Committing crimes across state lines is interfering with interstate commerce. Maybe Pennsylvania won't have jurisdiction for a crime committed in Utah, but federally it seems that this could be picked up by federal prosecutors.

This is going to be different than Az

Of course the church will have no problem hiding or obfuscating themselves from this stake president claims that the church not only encourages to not report but condemns people who do

more rational comment: Thank you for reporting on this.

Will the president set in Arizona supreme Court buoy the defense?

Interesting news.

WOW LDS states “The Church trains its leaders and supports their lawful efforts. The charges now brought by local prosecutors for failing to report the abuse are misguided, and the Church will vigorously defend him.”

Is it ethical for lawyers to advise bishops while also representing the church? The lawyers always seem to choose the church over the legal needs of members / bishops. Normal to favor the one paying you.

So where does the SP go from here? What are the legal wedges that might prompt the SP to bus chuck the Church and Kirton-McConkie, and when would we expect those to present?

I’m from that area in PA.

How hard is this? Humanity ok. Okay one true church????

as an lds, i will immediately report any case of child sex abuse that I hear of or know of, to the local state, county,, and fed authorities BEFORE i even mention it to local mormon church leaders !!!! the mormon church can then deal afterward with whatever is thrown at and sticks to the wall.

This story puts Bishop Bill in a Reel pickle.

Sue Mormon attorneys for practicing law, giving advise from UT in Penn!! Deep deep pockets!

I tried opening the link to the article and it says page not found

❤

So does this mean that the call might end up in the record?

Hi all. I’ve been out of the loop for awhile. What happened to byp?

Attaboy, big R

I mean, he was told 23 years after the fact. The now 30+ year old victims are more than capable of reporting the abuse themselves if they so choose. I wouldn't be plainly obvious to me that reporting would be helpful let alone required at that point.

I don't know that it will hold up on appeal when it comes to religious freedom.

Rhett Hintze is a great guy. I knew him personally. Too bad he got caught up in this. I think he was terribly misguided in the advice he received.

Isn’t it about time?