Mike and Rich sit down to have a long talk about trek. No more interjecting Star Trek references into videos, fuckers. This time it's ALL TREK ALL DAY LONG. Did they like Discovery? FIND OUT!!!
It breaks my heart to see these old Re:Views when they're talking about STD. Mike is trying so hard to be optimistic and to like it. It makes me so sad to think how badly they failed long time Star Trek fans like Mike. Meanwhile, Rich knew. Rich knew right from the start. Poor, jaded Rich.
I found RLM from their Picard reviews. I've exhausted all of those and the TNG reviews, and now are watching these. Maaaaaan, poor Mike here. I can tell what you're saying for sure here.
@@BigCowProductions Yeah I just came back to this after watching their finale episode and goddamn its really insane how this seemed a bit jaded at the time, but now is such adorable naive optimism.
I watched Orville for the first time right after Discovery. It's amazing how clear it is how one group of creators loves Star Trek, and the other wants to ride its corpse downhill.
I really hope they give Orville a chance to find itself. It seems like its got potential. Maybe regret over what Fox did to Firefly will help it get that chance.
Upon rewatching this one it kinda seems like Mike is in bargaining stage of grief and Rich has straight-up accepted that this show is bad and never will be anything else.
@scorenut hey there buddy boy. You do realize that's always been Picard, but more notably, Star Trek, right? Like, Gene Roddenberry almost couldn't get Star Trek made because all the TV execs felt that way about Roddenberry. The new Star Treks are performative wokeness. You see, the older Star Trek was about exploration and trying to create, not a galactic empire but community. Almost like having different communities with different voices having a say and basic rights. Almost like an ideology based around communities and the rights of the individuals within those communities. With the societies deciding as a whole were resources go. Almost like a community ism or a social type of ism. Almost like media and culture in the US especially has always been conservative and quick to reject leftist ideas only allowing some ideas in as a way to be performatively woke to trick liberals into watching to make them feel ok about their meager lives and to give conservatives a reason to be angry to draw attention to the shit product for free advertising.
Buckle Your Fuckle yeah but trying to sell it to normies is near impossible. It's nice to see that them getting a bigger fan base they still the same ole' a$$holes. Gotta luv em. I hope they keep doing this for years.
Picard is Mike's fault. Spock in season 2 is Mike's fault. JJ Abrams directing episodes 7 and 9 is Mike's fault. Shut the fuck up Mike, you elderly grandmaster of tactical hackfraudery.
@@alesin1992 it’s like they watch these, take the worst ideas, & there’s one guy in the room that says, “uh… guys? They’re saying they want us to slow things down, focus on character dynamics, stick to the themes & formula of what made old Trek great. Shouldn’t we be seeing what we can do to get on that path?” Then, one of two things happens: 1) the guy says, “hahahaha I’m just kidding, why would we ever do some dumb bullshit like that?!” _OR_ 2) another writer in the room pulls out a gun, kills the first guy, & then they get an intern to bury the corpse.
Yah, that's a big seller. There are a lot of reasons I'm not interested in getting me some STD, but having to pay for it is the biggest practical reason. Although, they're also putting that young Sheldon Cooper on that streaming service too, and my girlfriend is a big Big Bang Theory fan, so maybe I'll end up getting access to it anyway.
Going back and watching this it's heartbreaking hearing the optimism in Mike's voice. Oh Mike, foolish foolish Mike, let me tell you about a man named Alex Kurtzman...
Who cares about Discovery? Just come back and talk about random Star Trek stuff every few weeks. Just ramble on for hours about Star Trek. I'd watch that. Talk about all the times Worf got beat up just to show how much stronger someone else was.
Allen Campbell the Orville isn't my cup of tea, especially because i don't find Seth Macfarlane funny. But based on the Pilot, it captures the feeling look of Star Trek more than STD. The music alone in the Pilot episode i think could fit into a Trek show.
Allen Campbell Allen Campbell the Orville isn't my cup of tea, especially because i don't find Seth Macfarlane funny. But based on the Pilot, it captures the feeling look of Star Trek more than STD. The music alone in the Pilot episode i think could fit into a Trek show.
A new Star Trek series should be set about 50 or so years after voyager when the federation has just discovered an efficient means of intergalactic travel to Andromeda or some other close by galaxy. The possibilities for new story lines with the federation entering another galaxy basically write themselves
STP steals plot elements from Mass Effect.. why not rip-off ME:Andromeda too? just copy that game, but use star trek references: nacelles, klingons, warp speed, phasers, vulcans, deflectors, photon torpedoes, etc.
I would only watch it if it took the form of a reenactment. Starring Rich Evans as no less than 5 characters, in the style of Eddie Murphy in The Nutty Professor remakes.
Just watched this video 3 years after release. Oh Mike... you were filled with hope and trying to be positive with the future. He just didn't know what Alex Kurtzman was capable of doing. Just broke my heart seeing so much hope...
You know, Mike's reference to STDs really reminded me of that one episode of Star Trek where Wesley contracts Alien Super AIDS and Janeway ejects him into space.
The Klingon empire sang ballads of the event! The ferangi stock market soared! And all the Vulcans noted that a great source of illogic was eliminated from the galaxy! Even harry kim grew a pair!
Well, literally it means "divine ship," not exactly the word for spaceship, and contemporary Chinese ships are actually called Shenzhou 1, or 2, or 3, or whatever. Spaceship in Mandarin would be 宇宙飞船 (space flying ship) or 飞船 (flying ship) for short
@@HC-qc5rp totally with you, I think the feeling will only grow. You've probably been force fed this suggestion already, but if you've not given Orville a shot, please do - after a handful of episodes it was clear (and I'm not a huge fan of McFarlane)how much care and genuine passion has gone into making the very closest to the spirit and atmosphere of TNG. I hope you enjoy it 🍻
Someone smuggled a tribble onboard and they're having a really bad allergic reaction. I don't know why so many people seem to like the new klingons, I can't tell any of them apart.
Rewatching this I am thinking “you poor bastards have no idea what’s coming.” And that idea about jumping forward 20 years to take advantage of 3 casts worth of appropriately aged actors...you poor, poor bastards. Edit: “ratings are down..bring out Spock!” You think they’d do that? Hahahaha
Speaking of geeky Star Trek things, and needing a new conflict that *isn't* war. Does any remember the episode of TNG where a scientist killed himself proving that warp drives were actually destroying the fabric of space, and they wondered what the hell they were going to do because they realized they wouldn't be able to use warp drives to speed across the galaxy anymore? And then... it's never mentions again.
The problem was that the wrote themselves into a corner they couldn't get out of. The whole TNG universe would have been impossible without warp engines, but that's what makes it such an interesting dilemma. Imagine the TNG universe where it suddenly takes years to reach the next system again and warp drives are 'against the law', and everyone is searching for a new solution to faster than light flight. Opportunity lost.
True, you can hand-waive it away, but the point is it's a very interesting conflict that can create new stories that aren't just STAB THE SPACE ORCS IN THE FACE BOOOOM LASER BEAM!!!!
Tech is usually the answer in Star Trek. The Federation starts using new Space-Time Friction Reducing Warp Drives in all their new ships and they figure out some way to repair and essentially repave quadrants of space showing stress and weakness.
Its actually mentioned repeatedly. In the episode they decide that they should route round damaged areas and the ships are limited to about Warp 5, and thats exactly what they do pretty much as far as Star Trek has ever gone. In multiple episodes they have to confirm reasons for breaking those rules and otherwise stay at around Warp 5. (Even by the time of the E.) It also wouldnt fit in the framework of TNG that was a one story to a maximum of two episodes, it was always going to be consigned to the background. I see where you are going with it being a good idea for a non-war reason for a lot of issues, even the episode mentions that a bunch of races probably wouldnt comply with the rules, and for a long form story series perhaps they could come up with a deeper issue in the same vein to do it*, but as far as TNG goes it was actually one of the few times a story element did actually have far reaching consequences. Edit: To just go full geek on this. Voyagers waggly pylons were actually meant to mitigate the damage done, but there are hints that the technology isnt perfect, or at least fully tested. *Alternatively you could have some weapon or something bust up space for warp travel, then start a series when that issue is fixed. Similar to what has happened in a few games and bits of sci-fi, leading to rediscovering the state of chunks of those universes that ended up isolated for a long time.
+Trey Wait Actually, I think they *DID* bring that concept back up in Voyager, but when they did it, it was more of an allegory against nuclear weapons than against pollution or global warming. For more information, search Memory Alpha for "The Omega Particle" or watch the Voyager episode "The Omega Directive."
Yeah watching this now, wow, the fairness and gentle optimism they had. That we all had. Were we really so innocent/naïve? It feels like a Spielberg film from the 80's, not something we lived.
The beginning of the end. Anyone else remember the Return of the Jedi commentary when Rich said “nothing has ever managed to completely FUCK Star Trek”.
They misspelled the word *PROPHECY* in the Klingon speech. And that prophecy is one of the main plot points driving the whole series. How do you botch that?! They went through all the effort of clearly enunciating the Klingon language and having the fancy font but they missed the simple thing of spelling the word correctly (even after being reviewed by innumerable editors and spell checking). I think that is indicative of this whole series; they miss essential details but lavish attention on a lot of window dressing.
thing that strikes me most of all is how mike still had some glimmer of optimism and hope. incredible. he has become wilted like a rose in winter. will he ever bloom again?
I would really love to see one of these with Mike and rich discussing the first few episodes of The Orville. That's far more star-trek-y than discovery
I hate the design. They look so fundamentally different. They look more like Cardassians than any Klingons we've seen so far. I don't mind updating the look a little bit, but if you didn't tell me they were klingons, I would never have guessed. Sure, there was a huge change going from TOS to the films and TNG, but that was because they went from having no budget, to having a budget. There was no reason to change them like this. I'll take the criticism back if there is a reason for this new look though. Maybe it's tied into the augment virus. As silly of an excuse for smooth foreheaded TNG Klingons as it was, there is actually good story-telling potential in seeing how the Klingons deal with that virus.
Is absolutely heartbreaking coming back to see these reviews...Insane how hopeful and lenient Mike was, while it was actually Rich that was kinda smelling the shit from 2 miles away. Although Mike at the end did recover by predicting spock lmao
Star Trek was supposed to be clean, bright and friendly. Star Wars was supposed to be the anti-trek, dirty, dark and filthy. Somewhere along the line they merged and met in the middle.
@@ladyhm.6748 The old Star Wars always had an oily, greasy look to its ships. They were dirty and rough, because they draw on the feeling of Western movies, and gave our heros a working class feel to them. The Empire was always clean, cold and sterile by contrast. Star Wars is a dystopia that is fixed via the movies events. Star Trek was always utopian, so the ships were bright, warm and appealing looking.
I disagree with Geordie LaForge having no character. In fact, when I was young, he was the one human character I could relate the most to, because he was very talented (I wanted to be), kind (I considered myself to be), but was also very unsure especially with women (I definitely was). His problems were a main issue in "Booby Trap", which was always one of my favourite episodes. I think Harry Kim was ment in the same direction but was not developed as much as a character.
I remember "Booby Trap". I was yelling at the TV, "Don't take the ship in there! Send a shuttle! Send a shuttle, you morons!" I hate it when the heroes have to be retarded in order to advance the plot. 😀
How many episodes of TNG were there that did not include ANY ship firing? Now you can't have a show or movie like that ("Sooooo many lightsabers on the screen at one time"). To me, that's sad...it's like we're not allowed to use our brains anymore to feel...we have to be shown how to feel...which is stupid!
Also I strongly dislike that ship phasers have gone from slightly more realistic solid beams of which they typically have only one or two to a shit ton of small laser cannons scattered about the ship. It just makes the whole scene look like a massive clusterfuck making it impossible to see what is actually happening and judge the consequences. It's like when the shenshu lost 3 decks. That sort of thing would mean the enterprise would be more or less out of commission or hightailing it out of there. Instead they just zip around shooting as though nothing had happened. The stakes have no time to sink in and the show pays them no concern so why should we as an audience care?
I'm interacting to support the channel. This was better than PewDiePie playing Minecraft, or Markiplier and JackSepticEye playing Fortnite, or MrBeast watching ASMR videos.
The biggest difference between the changes to Klingons between TOS and TNG, and between DS9 and STD is that TOS had barely a year of development, but there was over a decade of development of them as a race and culture across multiple series.
I saw the trailer for The Orville and thought it looked like absolute shit. Saw the series (after word-of-mouth informed me that the trailer completely misrepresents the series as a Star Trek parody) and ended up enjoyed it quite a bit. Considering the RT disparity between critics and audience, I'm not the only one. Feels like Star Trek TNG, but with a crew that isn't the paragon of humanity. Yeah, the budget clearly isn't super large and it has flaws, but the time flew by while watching the show and has generally done a good job of subverting my expectations. Saw Star Trek Discovery, a show critics have praised, which has amazing visuals and a seemingly unlimited budget, and thought it was garbage. I could barely make it through the pilot episodes. The writing in this was fucking awful. I'm not a Star Trek fan, so it has nothing to do with it not being Star Trek enough or whatever. It's entirely due to how shit the writing is. The Klingons just made me laugh. Yeah, I appreciate the attempt making everyone speak Klingon, but it sounds stupid and it impedes the actors ability to, you know, act, and everyone else is speaking English anyway, so there's literally no reason for it and you're making the scenes worse by doing it. Also, the mouth prosthetic was a mistake. You can clearly hear the actors struggle to talk with it, which further ruins their performances. When I saw the show was created by Alex Kurtzman, the writer of such amazing shit as Transformers II, Star Trek: Into Darkness, and The Mummy 2017, it finally made sense why it was such a mess.
There are a lot of Star Trek apologists who are trying to explain why they think STD is good. It reminds me a lot of the Seinfeld episode when George was trying to break up with a woman and kept telling her all of his faults. Even when George told her he was gay she STILL was okay with it - in complete denial - which also made it funny and absurd. This new Star Trek show is absurd and unlikable despite a lot of money and talent. The Orville is a solid show. I've also been watching Dark Matter which is excellent. The new Star Trek is just a shadow of what makes Trek great.
I am 100 percent with you. Especially Rich. TNG showed a world where I wanted to live in. The new show is just action pew pew in space. I miss having a crew I can relate to. TNG, DS9, VOY were like families. I don't like having this single main character structure so far... Should not have been a prequel, too. One good thing about Discovery though: Sound design was great. So many familiar Star Trek noises. That was nice... but look and sound don't make up for plot and character design.
Good Lord, it's been two episodes. AS IF the crew of DS9 had felt like family after the frigging pilot. You know, when that show aired, there was a lot of bitching about how different it is, too. What the hell happened to IDIC? This fandom is truly the epitome of angry, entitled geekiness. Crikey.
@Christie Greenwood For me I'm giving the show a season or so to grow into itself. But I completely understand why people might want any Star Trek show to be the best kind of show. I think with Star Trek people should be allowed to hold it to very high standards. It's a franchise with a huge legacy behind it. Also I don't see most people being particular angry.
i notice they haven't come back to talk about subsequent episodes yet...time will tell i guess. i found myself saying out loud during the third or fourth episode "oh, fuck you" over and over again...so, michael burnham hasn't grown on me yet, but, maybe that's just me.
+Lee Yates I'm not familiar enough with how they do things to know if it's unusual or not that they haven't returned to it. It's not just you either; I'm not sure I've seen anyone claim they like her. They should kill her off and make the captain the main character, like he should have been in the first place
Not even a trekkie but Picard saying 'let's see what's out there' gives me a little tingle up my spine also this channel needs just more guys sitting around talking about their favourite tng episodes involving data
When “they” tried to get us to call it “Disco” and buy the shirts etc it lost me! A disco is a fun and enjoyable place we used to go in our youth. STD is certainly not fun.
Rich is right about everything ever, except his insistence against retro aesthetics in these things. A consistent style and continuity is more important than looking futuristic, like how Alien should look like bulky CRTs and pipes. That's what people want to see, not holograms. You can easily have a hybrid that looks retro and sleek, Doctor Who pulls it off.
Actually, the doctor who thing is a good point. There's something to be said about a long series with consistent continuity. That IS coming from someone who hasn't seen much of TOS, mind you.
@@dambition7495 because humanities opinion of itself has nosedived in the recent decade. Execs think no one is smart enough to appreciate anything that isn't constant explosions.
Except, please don't make a show like Voyager again. (That is, don't treat the premise of a show as a joke, and don't ignore continuity, and don't technobabble-ex-machina, etc.) Make a show like TNG or TOS -- don't copy a pale imitation; go to the source.
But you can have knobs and switches as a vision of the future. Alien: Isolation took the approach of retrofuturism in its design and this granted it a unique, gorgeous, and immediately identifiable look. You can't tell if you're looking at a new Star Wars or Alien or Star Trek movie anymore. It's boring. It takes away the visual identity of the series.
ArcanePath360 Mate, Isolation is full of CRT's, computers running on physical reading, switches and knobs galore, beige plastics, and simple beeps and whirs. And it goes further. Everything from chairs and tables to toys and advertisements are designed from an 80's perspective that abandons modern visual forms and colors.
As a fan, I think I hated Discovery because it's a bad JJ-Abrams version of "Prelude to Axanar." I would have much rather seen a Roddenberry style Axanar TV show about a gritty war with the Klingons.
Glad they showed 18:21 Day of the Dove - I always thought it was kinda funny how they kept Shatner's reaction to being slapped on the back by Micheal Ansara. He instinctively wanted to hit back because it stung!
Nothing has ever snapped me back into my 90's childhood like seeing that TNG commercial ad. Holy damn. It was sharp as an olfactory triggered memory. Love you RLM
Yeah, but Voyager's title doesn't also abbreviate as STD either. Just hearing the title makes me want to go to the doctor to get a check-up. I don't hate the show, but such a lack of awareness on such a simple detail makes me question on how much attention to detail the show runners are going to give to the new Star Trek show.
Michael isn't dislikable just because of her actions, but because the actress that plays her has no damn charisma. She was the exact same wet blanket in Walking Dead as she is here.
I dislike her because of her actions. Nervepinching your captain when she won't agree to your homicidal plan? She went full villain at that point for me.
not only that, she went to the VULCAN academy and is still this emotional, sure shes had a bad past, most of us have at some point...but shes was also at taht academy for what looks like 20-ish years and STILL lets little things make her a homicidal maniac?
I have no doubt, but I need to hear from him how much he loved it. I know it's probably weird or creepy but my Twin Peaks experience won't be complete until I can compare and contrast my thoughts to his.
I always thought the next step should have been pretty obvious - explore other galaxies. Now that they have the visual effects, they could use intergalactic exploration as an excuse to show off those visual effects by introducing extremely alien characters - ie, not bipedal humanoids. Stargate Universe was, ironically, more Star Trek in theme than many of the latest incarnations of Star Trek - ironic because some Stargate fans didn't like it for taking a creative departure from SG1 and SGA. Stargate Universe had several episodes devoted to pure exploration. The theme of the show was about learning more about the universe, taking great risks purely to obtain knowledge.
It's funny that Rich didn't notice at first, but Michael switching the phaser to kill is exactly the moment I decided I didn't like Star Trek Discovery. It was deliberate in a way that contradicted everything we were supposed to understand about her Vulcan upbringing, without being earned or emotionally well-presented.
